(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

56 days ago

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#1 56 days ago

So is this just the new normal? Pooled and chipping clear around posts on playfields, and playfield clearcoat that is so soft that they will wear quickly and can be dimpled with a fingernail? JJP has had this happening extensively on POTC and now Wonka, and Stern had this happen on GOTG, beatles, batman, and most recently now Jurassic Park 2. (The pooling matters because eventually that clear will start to chip or wear prematurely) People have had the chipping happen in the first 100 games. These are also not in the minority, it seems that the majority of pins of these titles have these issues. Now some pins of these titles are absent of this issue, but it appears a majority of the pins of each of these titles seems to be affected based upon reading through the threads for these pins. Pretty wide spread issue.

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#5 56 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Sounds like issue is occurring only on Mirco produced playfields which JJP uses exclusively and Stern uses for some of their playfields? That may be why the issue isn't occurring as often on Stern games since they use other playfield manufacturers.
In regards to timing for when the issue began my best best guess is late summer 2018 when Pirates started to ship. Dialed In's produced prior to Pirates used Mirco playfields but didn't have clear pooling around posts or post shipping. Something changed with Mirco playfields during the summer of 2018.

GOTG I think pre-dates POTC. I would love to know if Mirco was in fact used for the stern pins having the issue.

#12 56 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Good to know. If this issue occurs on Stern games it seems limited to pooling versus chipping that is occurring on some JJP games. Has anyone seen a Stern game with post chipping made in the past two years?

I saw it on a GOTG pro too yea. The pooling quickly turned to chipping. So it does happen, I just don't know how often.

#19 56 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

I think it has got to the point where customers are going to want to know where/who they get their playfields done before they purchase. And Stern and JJP will likely need disclose that information proactively.

The problem is, as of now, neither manufacturer has responded in any official way about these issues.

#24 56 days ago

I hope we don't need a whole new sub forum lol

#32 56 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Just steer clear of anything that has a "Mirco" label on the playfield. Problem solved.

Well unfortunately we don’t know for sure if mirco is supplying stern. It’s a guess since we know mirco is supplying JJP and JJP has bad clear issues. But we could be wrong about stern and mirco.

#42 56 days ago

There are pins being made today though that do not have this issue, which makes this all the more aggravating. Where are the PFs coming from for the pins that don't have the issue?

#44 56 days ago

Agreed, there are pins made today that are fine and I gaurantee their PFs aren't sitting for 6-12 months before being made.

#46 56 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

which ones? CGC? I can confirm my Houdini does not have this issue, although no title is immune from some games having an issue of some sort

CGC, also Munsters, BKSOR, ST Vaults etc no reported issues that I have seen.

#53 56 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

BKSOR and Munsters also seem to be lesser sellers, so may not be a great sample set

But still, with seemingly zero reported issues on those titles I feel like that data does matter?

#83 56 days ago
Quoted from RobertWinter:

It's definitely happening with Munsters. Pictures from some of the problem areas on my Munsters Pro below. These issues were present immediately after unboxing.
I have also seen in-person similar bubbling/lifting on other Munsters Pros and LEs so mine is not an isolated case.
No chipping yet. Fingers crossed. Hesitant to move my outlane posts for fear of chipping/new bubbling.
I personally think it comes down to an ink/wood adhesion issue, not a clearcoat issue. There's no artwork under the sling posts on Munsters and the clear is not lifting under those. And if you take a close look at the outlane posts, it only seems to be lifting where there is artwork, not where there's only wood with clear over it.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Thanks for posting, it's the first one I've seen myself!

#84 56 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I'm sorry for anyone selling a game these days. The Sherlock Holmes investigation that's gonna go on will be the worst.

Yea that's a good point. I guarantee there are buyers who are going to obsess over this, even though it's such a wide spread thing.

#182 55 days ago
Quoted from Coz:

I was going to pick up a new JP, now I think I’ll wait. I hope they can fix these issues. I assume it’s a chemical problem because of all the regulations on the harmful chemicals they used to use??

No that’s not it. Plenty of pins are coming out today without these issues. Unless only the affected PFs are coming from some uptight country that bans everything. :p

#237 53 days ago

Stern is replacing at least one PF already and said this is not normal. Saw it in the JP2 club thread.


#312 51 days ago
Quoted from Brk_oth:

I believe during that time period the major change for all manufacturers is the type of clear used in the US...... New regulations to cut down on VOC emissions, the clear they are using is now water-based.

Source? Also don’t forget mirco is not in the US. And given that many playfields do not have this problem, I don’t see this being because of some new regulation.

#360 51 days ago

HEP mentioned that PFs with this issue are likely going to have much bigger problems down the road. Whether it is time or plays we don’t know, but the bubbling/chipping is indicative of a larger problem that affects the entire playfield. There are playfields that had this issue and appear to be deteriorating or having the issue spread rather quickly. Point being, the long term is affected in some way, in varying degrees depending on how bad your specific PF is affected. Covering it up now with a washer is just hiding the problem for now. Eventually, it will get worse.

#381 51 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Thankfully there's not been one example though of the issue spreading beyond posts. Even with on location games with thousands of plays the wear isn't going beyond the sling posts. I doubt one day clear will just start chipping randomly in the middle of the playfield. The areas that have chipped are due to the pressure being applied by posts, primarily sling posts, and the slight movement around sling posts caused by the sling solenoid activating. Owners that have covered up the chipping with rubber washers haven't had an issue.
Hell, remember how some very early WOZ's (March - May of 2013) had chipping issues? Part of that was due to no mylar being applied in certain areas but it was also playfield quality related. Wear on those games never spread to the general open playfield. I recall seeing an on location WOZ with the issue, game must have had a crazy high number of plays but the wear didn't spread beyond the reported areas.

You haven’t seen the HUO Iron Maiden example yet then someone posted. It’s pretty bad.

#398 50 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I think the problem here isn't cure time...its probably an issue with humidity or improper mixing of the two parts of the clear coat before application. If the mix is off, the clear will never cure.

HEP said something that made a lot of sense. He indicated that the fact that the playfield ink comes up with the clear almost makes it seem like possibly a playfield screen/printing/ink issue. He said something along the lines of if it is a adhesion issue it needs to be fixed immediately moving forward by adding some type of adhesion promoter to the ground floor of the playfields or finding a product that bites in better.

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