(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

59 days ago



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#35 59 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

CPR and Mirco each have their issues. You'd only be choosing what kinds of issues your game will present with. Although, seems like with Mirco it's just that they don't allow time for proper curing. On the other hand you cant wave a wand and magically make your CPR go "poof" and become decent hard wood.

There are people who has bought the spare mirco-playfields. Had them for months and still soft as butter.
So, how long does it take for a mirco playfield to harden? 10 years?

#65 59 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

6-12 months apparently. ... Longer to be safe. Cant remember where I read that, but it was given advice. (Mirco)
There is no possible way these manufacturers are allowing their new releases to cure for anywhere near this amount of time.

You're sayimg that by now mirco potc is hard as rock and fully cured?
Anybody with a bubbly pirates can comfirm this statement?

#67 59 days ago
Quoted from quickstop:

Here is a pic of my Maiden Pro chipping. I never noticed the chipping until I found the missing piece in another area.[quoted image]

Jeez, in ten years that pf will look like a badly peeled orange.

21
#184 58 days ago

The proper fix will be provided When customers stop buying games.

#255 55 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I think you may be right.
This picture isn't clear coming off.
It's like a bad playfield overlay that is coming off.
Makes sense that the ink is not adhering to playfield.
How much more does it cost to do good old screen printed?[quoted image]

That pf will look like a nightmare in ten years.

#417 53 days ago
Quoted from pinballplusMN:

Im curious if in colder climates its risky to move/transport these games with pf issues? Could moving the game in 10 degree or worse cold make things worse?

You have pieces of the playfield coming right of in less then two weeks of play.
What Do you mean by worse?
Exploding playfields?

#419 53 days ago
Quoted from sirlonzelot:

Impressive, who’s gonna try this with a new Jjp or Stern playfield ?

You have industrial sites carrying heavy machinery on clearcoat holding up perfectly fine for tens of years.
You have people installing 3d epoxy floors in their homes, with little issues.
Apparently this is something anyone can Do including their grandma, except thoose working with coating pinball playfields.
For theese rocketscientist it's obviously a task Well beyond their ability.

#421 53 days ago
Quoted from libtech:

Wish you guys made Sterns playfields..

Dito + jjp

#426 53 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

My final guess why this is happening. Both Stern and JJP tried to get playfield costs lower by saving money on clear coat costs. Mirco, or whoever doesn't just suddenly lose the ability to make quality playfields after doing so without issue for years. This cost savings theory was introduced on the TWIP podcast and honestly it doesn't surprise me one bit. If true both manufacturers have some nerve to charge record high NIB prices and then cut playfield quality of all things.

This is just speculation. I think it's an automation problem.
They are spraying on the playfields and need the solution sprayable thru nozzles. Hence they want a thinner fluid.
It's like concrete, the more water you mix in, the easier distribution, however it will not be strong enough.

#536 51 days ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Not under warranty. People looking for resolution need to remove that word from the conversation. The warranty is printed in every manual I've looked at and it doesn't cover playfields.
Yes, companies have 'taken care of' customers outside of warranty. Without that written warranty we're all left mostly guessing what is covered, for how long, and under what conditions.
It might be helpful to get organized. Decide what to call the defects, document who has them, how many, and on what machines. Affected purchasers could post photos, your distributors could refer to those when dealing with the manufacturers.

Interesting. Here in Sweden everything is covered by one year warranty law.
There is NO way to circumvent this.

#729 48 days ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Because it's almost free to do so and isn't likely to do any damage. It MAY help.
The kind of remedy you might try while investigating the root cause.

A serious company Wouldn"t sell a product they knew May be defective.

-1
#867 45 days ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

Doesn't Varethane (Polyurethane?) turn yellow in time? Or are there new formulations that don't yellow now?

epoxy turns yellow with uv-lighting. Normally polyurethane can protect. Polyurethane is to my knowledge more flexible and resistant, but requiers more to set, there cant be moisture etc.

I think if you go epoxy, you have to have a non-flexible surface below, atleast that´s the case with flooring.

#934 43 days ago
Quoted from pickleric:

Has anyone asked if JJP would do the swap for those willing to get the game to them?

I think the deal is somewhat fair, under the condition that the spare playfield holds up.

Why?

Having a new i guess takes alot of nuisance of. You will probable be more at ease having thoose mostly cosmetic issues.
Then say that mirpoo playfield, as flawed as it is, still holds up for a 20k games or so.
Then you make the swap and The game looks as good as new. You will then have payed 1500(swap-price) for 20k games.

I realise it"s not a dream situation but, still ok'ish and we get to see the company and their future product.
As said though, the new pf must be flawless and they better look over the coming pf's and qc.

Just my view.

#982 43 days ago
Quoted from Raegor:

You're losing value with the blank playfield.
Would you rather buy pin A used with no damage or pin B used with bubbling/chipping + free blank playfield?
I'd take A

If A showed wear and b looked even worse, still playable, but worse, but had a brand new playfield included.
I would take b.

#1012 42 days ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

Except it's literally not corrected. Anything short of a fixed & assembled machine is not acceptable.
If anyone thinks otherwise, ask yourself this question. 2 machines are up for sale for the same price, which do you buy?
#1 - A machine with the playfield pooling and chipping, with a new fixed unpopulated playfield.
#2 - Same machine but with just a fixed populated playfield.
Since it's obviously a rhetorical question, the next question is how much cheaper will #1 be than #2? My guess is at least 400-500$. So even with option 1, Stern/JJP is straight up screwing a nib buyer out of 400-500$ (minimum, probably more like 1k). Unacceptable imo.

I think the questions tilts towards #1 if both machines shows signs of wear and How much.

#1125 41 days ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Here’s what I paid for my 3 NIB Sterns, in inflation-adjusted dollars (includes shipping & taxes):
2004 - LOTR - $5161
2013 - MET - $5176
2019 - JP2 - $5500
LOTR and MET came with monochrome DMDs, so I added ColorDMDs for $350 (show specials). Considering all that, I think Stern’s pricing has been pretty stable, with steady improvements in audio, graphics and electronics.

Agreed, not to hefty mark up over the years, but you can´t honestly say jp2 is even close to on par quality and electronics wise to the other two?

1 week later
#1448 33 days ago

what will happen to the playfields over time if the paint isnt fixed to the surface and the clear is soft?

This is just a detour and not a fix.

Seems strange to me that this can be an issue at all. Hockeysticks takes ten times the beating of a pinball playfield but no clear chipping and underlaying decor is not moving one bit, them sticks are also flexible as hell, so what is the problem with pinball playfields?

#1466 32 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

I just received my Jurassic Park LE with the new Playfield fixes. Very happy. Think it’s goung to last forever.[quoted image]

Doesnt look to bad. Maintainance should be doable, and exactly as many interactive toys as the pro version.

#1503 31 days ago
Quoted from BeaglePuss:

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Thats one seriously ruined playfield

#1837 25 days ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Dude, you’re way out in left field. Nobody said issues should or should not be remedied.
The discussion was that Stern has stated it’s not widespread.
That’s all.
Good luck with your Wonka.

Then there shouldn't be any trouble replacing thoose pf's that comes with the defect.

In that sense it's kind of strange, none has reported having their playfields replaced.
The playfield has allready been submitted to two quick fixes. First washers and then lack of art.

Do you honestly believe the stern statement?

#1839 25 days ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

And there’s a whole other interesting topic of discussion. Pooling.
ASSUMING it’s only ever pooling, and doesn’t get to chipping, should Stern pay to replace entire playfields? Not in my opinion.
Should they replace playfields with minor chipping near a post? I sure hope they do, cause I like my playfields perfect -but that’s the “collector” approach that I have. Assuming the chip doesn’t affect the gameplay, and the game still works as intended, why would a company offer to pay the costs of replacing playfields? Especially when they’ve previously syptated that playfields aren’t under warranty.
Only if it drastically affects future sales, is the answer.
Damn, I seriously hope we never get to paying for extended warranties as is common in some industries.

What happens if you have pooling now and massive chipping in two years?

#1840 25 days ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Disagree. They may have noticed that it was 100% of playfields for a 1 week period and that they needed to fix it moving forward, but that 1 week worth of pins isn’t considered “widespread” in the grand scheme of things.
Something worthy of fixing does not indicate “widespread”.
Does it?

So thoose saying they have chipping on beatles, maiden etc are all liars?

10
#1842 25 days ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

No, of course not. I never said that anyone was a liar.
The discussion is whether there are enough issues to be called “widespread”.
I’ve posted enough on the subject as expressed my opinion.
You are all welcome to your own, and I respect that, truly.
I’m just not a fan if people labelling Stern when I don’t think they are intentionally deceiving anyone.
Of course, you are welcome to vote with your wallets and avoid future pins u til such time as you feel supported enough to purchase.

I'm not crazy pissed, i havent got a dog in this, since i dont own either.
I just think it's frekkin disasterous managed by both stern, and esp jjp.
Jjp must have well known the mirpoo issues on pirates, so why the fuk do they release mirpoo wonka?
Lawler did an awesome game, only to be tarnished by a crap pf manufacturer.
Come the fuk clean and sort it out proper, not this washer, no paint shite, and make good on the customers. I realise they are cornered now and esp jjp probably would cave on total replacements, but come clean, there must be another solution, the way both companies are doing it now, is just digging a bigger hole.
Sorry for crap english /rant off.

#1902 24 days ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Great point!
“If a game is expensive, we automatically get to amend the warranty in our favour!”
This is the ridiculousness that is Pinside.
Stern (I believe?) has stated that they will review play fields on a case by case basis. But Pinsiders are upset that Stern hasn’t made a public announcement, over an issue that so far seems to be (in most of the cases) cosmetic, only?
I’m glad we could hash this out to nail down everyone’s expectations of Stern.
Seems reasonable.

Cosmetic only, so of a sudden playfield art and the shape of the playfield art is not important?

Seems strange to me almost zero pinball ads comes without pictures of the actual machine, why not just say that it's working.

Have you really thought your statement thru?

#1984 24 days ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

That may illustrate that Stern will probably have to remove artwork under ANYTHING that mounts to the playfield. Ughhh...

So then we start to use cottonballs instead of steelballs, to avoid damage over time?
I'm not to fucking impressed, but I'm hearing spooky, cgc and American is coming out with new titles soon, so maybe pinball can survive.

#2113 22 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Quick Update:
Stern has been fast to respond to my emails. They said they sent my pictures to quality control and offered to send me a bottle of clear touch-up to mitigate the paint peeling issue.

LOL, this is a joke right?

#2225 16 days ago
Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:

Not really a head scratcher. You had different processes, different materials, and a whole slew of toxic chemicals that are now considered unsafe.
#gimmebackmyVOCs

So cars, hockeysticks, industrial floorings etc are not having The same environmental restrictions that pinball has.
Have to call Bull on that one.
Incompetence is the Word. Environmental is just a really bad excuse.

11
#2234 15 days ago
Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:

Because prepping metal for paint and clear vs prepping art work covered new growth plywood wood is like comparing apples to walruses.

Yea it sure seems Hard, since only the three smaller companies are able to do it right.

It's an embarrassing fucking joke. That's what it is, and what makes it even worse are all the useful idiots making excuses.

#2256 14 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Stern’s business plan is a mystery wrapped in a riddle covered in soft clearcoat...working though so what do I know?

Reminds me of apple cult-followers.
Aslong as there is a continous stream of new shiny things, quality and all other aspects are completely ignored, and anybody with even minor concerns are treated, as if them and their family had been attacked.

#2427 10 days ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

I'll apply some logic (that I don't agree with) from the big lebowski thread.. if we all push the issue and ask for replacement playfields, JJP will go bankrupt and wont be able to make any more games!
It's B.S. that distributors are claiming new LE's have no more playfield issues, but it sounds like those of us who bought sooner are stuck with puddles of clear and chipping playfields.

So what is the current consensus?
Games beeing produced and going out now is sorted?

#2528 9 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Has anyone tried to remove a post from an area where there is pooling but no chipping? I'm curious if the bottom of the post is stuck to the clear when trying to remove it.

I would consider warming it with a heat gun or such before i tried the removal.

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