Yes there are on POTC

That's not how that is going to work. The manufacturer will be liable towards the distributor/dealer, of course, "even" in the UK.

Just like anything and everywhere else, the customer needs to be protected and cannot be sent around, especially when the manufacturer sits abroad, nice and cosy.

Imagine your toaster breaks and your store says "take that up with China". No, you get to return for exchange or refund (your choice) anywhere I know of and have been to. The store takes it up with the distributor it got it from, the distributor with the manufacturer. The manufacturer can always approach the part vendor at fault for remedy.

If the distributor doesn't like it then get out, this is the risk of doing business after all.

People l love doing business with you, being the push over that you are obviously

This tells us clearly one thing (no pun intended) - the paint did not adhere to the wood, that was the cause for Stern's problems.
Leaving out the paint allows the clear itself to stick to the wood and at least in Stern's case that seems to be problem solved.

Now remember that Spooky are VERY vocal about having "solved it" during and after TNA...and guess what, same deal on Alice Cooper, go figure. No secret sauce, no harder or softer clear, no proprietary solution to keep a secret. They simply threw their hands up in the air, said f it, pulled back the art from the posts and allowed for the clear itself to grab. And I don't care a bit, I think it looks cool.

But now I feel less confident in JJP being able to stand behind the playfields they sold to POTC owners (and later refunded them for), those things will have to be timebombs. And unless they prove me otherwise, how am I going to accept a replacement playfield from JJP for my cracked and chipped POTC CE going forward?

https://i1.wp.com/geekdad.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/03/AliceCooper_Playfield.jpg?resize=1376%2C1032&ssl=1

Further proof: TNA before fix:

https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/TNA-entire-playfield.jpg

After "fix":

https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/TNA%20Playfield.jpg

That playfield is gorgeous

pasted_image (resized).png

Jeff, is that you?!?

He called me, POTC Collector Edition owner.

I sure didn't gush and told him my demands, pointing out that installing said replacement playfield will cost upwards of US$1000 as obviously neither him, Joe Newhard nor I have the time do do a swap.

He didn't give a shit, neither did Joe Newhard who went immediately silent in spite of him promising me before the sale (!!!) that I as a CE owner would get special treatment should there ever be such playfield issues. Yes, I brought the issue up before the purchase.

They both decided for me that I am getting an unpopulated playfield and that the joke is on me.
Have yet to even see that playfield.

Just opened my NIB Jurassic Park LE. I had nothing but great luck with Stern in the past with Iron Maiden LE being the first that had the dreaded softer wood.

Now this Jurassic Park. The grain shows heavily and a 3 inch ball drop (tested under Apron) resulted in a deep dimple. I had to reseat all posts etc as the soft wood had sunken in on all of them. All posts were lose, some I was able to rotate freely.

Guess my luck ran out. Installed a playfield protector. Took around 2 hours straight, playfield now looks like a MILLION bucks and the gameplay feels exactly like my protector-less pins.

Yes I understand, most dislike those protectors - but realize that we did not need them in the past (hence they were ridiculous).
From here on out I will not unbox one single game without protector in hand. Even it that means that the game has to remain unplayed for a few weeks until the protector becomes available from Germany.

As for you who is new to the hobby, installing a protector may be a tall ask unfortunately. I would not sweat it too much as those grains and dimples are purely cosmetic.

...

And make sure to have it in writing.
After dealing with PinballStar I learned that the hard way.

You are a handful, Joe.

I pointed out to you that the POTC CE that I played in town had chipping and pooling.

I asked what would happen should the same happen to me.

I asked before making the purchase and that was ground FOR making the purchase. And I told you that.

You told me on the phone that "JJP takes special care of their CE customers and that I would be made whole".

I then had the exact and discussed playfield issue happen to me and I contactef you while you were on vacation. You did not get back with a solution. A day or two later was when Jack made his phone calls, which I thanked him for. I told Jack on the phone that I find his solution unsatisfying but did not throw you under the bus during that phone call.

I left it at that and was done with you and JJP due to your actions.

When the topic came up on the forum I posted about my experience.

Then one of your friends contacted you and only now, that it was public, did you care.

You made sure to contact Jack and myself right away to make me out to be the scumbag, even threatened me with legal action and boasted that I have no recording of said phone call you and I had, no proof of the promise you made.

Which is correct, I only do business in writing with people I do not trust. I trusted you at the time.

Point is, you promised me PREFERRED treatment, I now got the same treatment as anyone else.

I have NO use for an unpopulated playfield, I wrote you and Jack that. It's a waste of Jacks money, shipping and my space. All I can do is sell it with the pinball.

I offered that I would be happy with a price break on the coming Guns and Roses that you told me about in January 2019. That is on the other hand correct.

You giving me a small break would not have cost you a dime, you would have sold a pin for Jack, I would have continued to be a customer of both yourself and JJP.

Instead you threw Jack under the bus by promising something he cannot keep. And now start a public shit storm. Be my guest.

And if you, as threatened, want to take legal action against me it will be popcorn time on Pinside.

He could have said "no promises" and all would have been fine.

I'm with you on that, but good luck finding a POTC CE used

I quite often read reports of people receiving exactly those

Hello all,

To make it clear to everyone reading, the whole problem, if you want to call it that, revolves around what I described earlier and allow me to quote what I wrote

"I asked before making the purchase and that was ground FOR making the purchase. And I told you that.

You told me on the phone that "JJP takes special care of their CE customers and that I would be made whole"."

This was an agreement between Joe and myself, one that he now denied he entered into and that I have no proof of. And one that he possibly and could honestly have forgoten about, which would be only human. But then he needs to keep phone calls to the point in the future and not get lost in 20 minutes of anecdotes.

What happened next is that I did not actively seek out JJP. What happened is that I registered the issue, as it was announced that this was what JJP wanted, on their website and tried to call and emailed Joe.

Joe did not reach out to me with a solution in time (he was on vacation), Jersey Jack in true Murphys Law style called me with the Jersey Jack solution before Joe got to me.

The timing could not have been worse in hindsight.

I talked to Jack and told him that I am not satisfied with the solution. Told him that I would rather be interested, instead of getting a useless playfield, to get discount towards a future title. Shipping and cost of playfield would be much better used that way.

Jack simply hung up on me. I did not mention Joe during that phone call as I realized what was happening and did not want to throw Joe under the bus in front of his manufacturer.

But now I had realized that Joe had made a promise in JJPs name that JJP was not willing not wanting nor bound to keep.

Read again, Joe told me JJP would take preferred Collectors Edition care of me. Not him. And here I was, surprised and disappointed.

I understood right away what situation Joe was in, JJP would give me standard treatment and he had a promise that he wanted to keep, or so I thought at the time. And I reached out to Joe and offered discount on a future title solution.

I was still under the impression at that time that Joe wanted to honor and/or that he remembered the agreement, hence I suggested that we find a solution for me. And that I will not share said solution as we do not want to set precedent for JJP as Jack had decided to do playfield only. I thought that Joe and I were trying to sort things out together.

Nothing. One email to Jack from Joe, Jack replied said email with "Götz is getting a playfield"...

I unhappily settled for the playfield....

Time passed and every now and then the topic came up here and I shared my frustration with others. I was not bound by an NDA nor was I offered a solution if I keep only quiet.

And now here we are.

No problem Joe, we can keep this on high flame in public, your choice. Or you could have called, as you should have.

You promised me, on the phone, that JJP would treat me better than standard customers, as they supposedly treat all their Collectors Edition customers with preference.

I asked whether that meant I would be made whole in case the described issues would arise, you said yes.

So, if Standard and LE owners get a playfield, where does that leave me? Can anyone blame a customer at that point to ask for a populated playfield? And if that is denied, is it a terrible idea that the customer comes up with the offer to buy yet another pinball from you, in good faith as I had no idea at that point that you would "forget" your promise, at a discount?

Win-win for everyone?

Yes, the promise was made on the phone and you are having a field day with the fact that I trusted you, that I have no recording of said phone call.

That is why I recommend to everyone to do business with Joe in writing.

Not once have you called me to work things out as you should have. I sure tried to call you. Instead you threatened me with legal action and you publically attack your Collectors Edition buyer.

Joe, you are completely losing your temper and professionalism in public.

I welcome you over at my house to do the swap once my playfield comes in

JJP ordered a perfectly fine playfield from Mirco and paid Mirco in prefectly fine Euros, they are not at fault as a manufacturer for the initial issue.

They are as much victim as the rest of us.

You guys are all not reading what I posted....INITIAL

There was no bad intent. How it is being handled after the fact is up to the manufacturer and distributor, and that is what is being discussed here.

Thank you for your kind words, Ute

I got JP2 LE and a playfield protector went on it before a single ball was played.

That is the new world I live in

Not true.

Read what I posted again.

All of this is crazy and seemingly exclusive to Pinball.
What are these distributors good for in the end?

JP2LE

terrible graining, looks like ass.

removed apron and did test drops. Craters, not dimples, right away.

i pulled everything needed and install a playfield protector before even the first ball was played.

made the graining almost invisible and no dimples for me.

text me, got the iron here and you can borrow it anytime.

works like a charm.

You were lucky, I got a lemon.

That's not him, he would have opened up with a cartwheel to the nuts

Sometimes.....sometimes this forum leaves me speechless.....

I work in the field of giant scale radio controlled model aircraft, another expensive toy.

Same, exact same customer behavior as I find it here on Pinside- the customers treat the distributors, manufacturers and big names like rockstars, let them get away with anything and glorify ordinary behavior.

Kissing up to these distributors does not make you pinball - famous, people. It makes you act like a fool.

He is the resident little kid.

Can you come over then and do my POTC CE swap as well?

I know how to do it, but do not have the time...seems like you do.

cannot confirm
got JPLE and the playfield sucks

I 100% agree with him, would look best with lights off

I got one of those piece of crap playfields on my JPLE, thanks Stern

You know what's gross? Shit playfields

you don't like facts much, do you

I would think he is done attacking his customers.

quick hint, look at the title of the thread you are posting in...

You nailed i, finally.

I sold my POS POTC CE at a profit, which was of course pure luck in the end, and I will never touch a JJP again. And they have no-one but Mirco and Joe Newhart to blame, these two ruined an otherwise positive experience for me.