I think if you get actual chipping (not just pooling) and get given a replacement PF free of charge that's a good and realistic outcome. It's a good halfway between no compensation and complete populated PF swap.

In reality most people wont swap the PF - they'll just put some washers on and keep the new PF as insurance. Hang it on the wall as art. Then the game will get sold down the track with a brand new uninstalled PF for the new buyer - almost a better outcome since the PF will be NOS and preferable to a used but installed PF.

I know some are expecting fully re-populated PF swaps, and for some very severe cases this may be warranted. But for the most part we should be happy to accept that there is a grey area between a commercial product that has high velocity steel ball flying around hitting things with huge force and a home consumer product / piece of art that should look pristine for as long as possible. A free of charge replacement PF is a good compromise that reflects that.

Kudos to JJP for accepting this and reaching out to affected owners.

That looks about ready to pop.

Yeh I can definitely see your side. These issues are happening out of the box, so the argument that “ this is pinball” doesn’t really hold when no pinball has been played on the game.

I’ve had my fair share of serious Playfield issues. Almost all other issues can be resolved relatively easily. But Pf damage is usually “terminal”. I’m lucky in that I have the equipment and space to do a full pf swap - (and I actually enjoy it). But I still believe having a brand new NOS pf to offer when selling a game is at least as good or even better than a used one installed.

A playfield is only new once.

Hot swapping new games is relatively easy if you have the tools. Even a "complex" game like WOZ. Leave the original populated PF in the game, new pf on a rotisserie - remove from old, install on new. As long as you take your time and are methodical about it.

Stripping, restoring and re-populating an old game is a different animal.

You build another game with the old Playfield.

So what’s the consensus on the best washers to use under the posts for these games? What size/material?

Thats not the same at all. Playfield chipping is purely cosmetic.

It’s the equivalent of driving the car and the paint chipping under the wheel wells more easily than expected. Doesn’t affect drivability, it’s purely cosmetic and if it wasn’t happening so soon could be considered normal wear and tear.

Your analogy is equivalent to the Spike CPU dying, making the game unplayable. A simple swap fixes everything.

That’s why there needs to be a reasonable and equitable solution. It’s not as black and white as some like to believe.

I’m all for a good carguement, but in this case pinball is nothing like the car industry - it’s a tiny boutique hobby making discretionary toys. The car industry on the other hand is huge, hugely profitable, making objects essential to everyday life for every human on the planet. If the car fails it has very real, often life threatening, consequences.

The cost of recalls and warranty claims to the car industry are huge, but due to the scale of these companies, it’s easily absorbed.

Pinball is tiny by comparison.

I’m not saying this is not an issue. It is. But I think the solution needs to be reasonable for all parties. Washers for the posts is not satisfactory. A new unpopulated PF in my opinion is. If this issue is as widespread as Pinside would indicate, fully populated Playfield swaps for every game with pooling or chipping around posts would bankrupt some manufacturers in this industry.

In this case I think the manufacturers have been caught out by supplier error. If we take this argument to it’s logical ending, Stern and JJP should be claiming the complete cost of mass populated Playfield swaps against Mirco (or whoever). There’s no way a small supplier like Mirco could bear the brunt of such a claim. They’d be struggling just to provide replacement Playfields I would think.

The old one has cracking around the inserts! Just kidding, I know, its 30 years old.

In @zaphx 's defence, he didn't bring the springs and stops into the mix - he was responding to another pinsider who did.

Wonder what the resale is like on these games?

Potatoes don’t have flashes.

Just an insightful insult or an insulting insight. Lol.

No, really, you haven’t heard the saying “looks like the photo was taken with a potato”? I wasn’t calling you personally a potato. Just your camera. You have to admit it was a bad photo.

Can’t see what’s going on there. Any idea whether they’ve fixed the post in front of the upper flipper?

So they re-printed the Playfields? Hopefully they also tweaked the clear mix.

I just received my Jurassic Park LE with the new Playfield fixes. Very happy. Think it’s goung to last forever.

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How are CPR's new digital print PF's holding up?

That playfield is rooted.

Guaranteed Deeproot will be hardtop.

Just inboxed a March 19 built Deadpool Premium and the Playfield is perfect.

I did that before playing. It’s a March build, so before this chipping thing blew up and Stern started using washers. But there’s no sign of any pooling at all on the pf and it’s had 6 months to do it.

Great, something to look forward to. Adds a whole new level to NIB pinball ownership.

Easy to offer on a printed plastic hardtop Playfield.

Lol. I’m not downloading until it’s got ghosting and node board failure.

Yes.

Thunderbirds, for all its mediocrity, is actually a really well built game (for the most part). It has a hardtop pf and looks fantastic. Seems to play ok.

Personally I’m not a fan of hardtop vs real wood but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the next step for all manufacturers.

Obviously I know Stern do send out populated pf’s for severe cases, but why send out a bottle of clear if your intention is to replace the Playfield?

It’s a process of giving the bear minimum the customer will accept.

I would have thought a Dinosaur themed game would be right up O-din's alley....being a Dinosaur and all.....Ha ha....Ha..

That post design has been fixed in later runs. The JP pro Playfield pictured above is an early build (August 19 - game was released July 19) and known for issues. They’ve since removed the art from around that post and the new post goes all the way through the Playfield and is secured by a nut and washer underneath the pf.

They removed the artwork not to hide the damage, but to allow the clear to adhere to the wood. The problem with the pooling is coming from the artwork not adhering to the wood. The clear is doing its job - the art isn’t.

Makes sense. My JP2LE is perfect. One of the best Stern playfields I’ve had.

Fair enough - can only speak from personal experience. I’ve absolutely had my fair share of sh*t Stern Playfields, but am very happy with my JPLE. Absolutely agree that all manufacturers need to fix the mess of the last couple of years. I can’t believe that the pinball industry’s collective knowledge on how to make a Playfield has somehow been lost.

Thought so. Still doesn’t make your situation acceptable. Good luck - hope they sort it out for you as they should.

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That’s really atrocious. Should be a no question asked pf swap. Clearly defective. It’s such a lottery. My JPLe pf was flawless....best Stern Pf I’ve had.

Tell them you and your family all have coronavirus, but you soldiered on and managed to swap the Playfield anyway. Tell them you can’t guarantee everyone hasn’t sneezed on the playfield, but if they’d like it back you and your family can personally drop it off next week.

And then tell them to Vaffanculo.

My Nib Monster Bash was the worst dimpling game I’ve had. Didn’t worry me personally, but if it does you then don’t get too excited.

Should be a key post in this thread.

Art actually looks pretty good on JP when you see the unpopulated pf. Didn’t know there was a moat around the pop bumper area.

Particle board is possible the worst material for playfields. I sincerely hope thats not the way they are going for all games - and I doubt it. Probably OK for a home game, but as soon as you have to remove and replace any components that are screwed directly into the PF youre screwed (see what i did there?). You might get one or 2 re-screws before it loses it's hold.

Is there a wood veneer over the top?

And at lease it's cheap.

Stern Home Edition, not so much.

What game? Is it old stock from a distributor or current?

Actually, on that note, are new TMNT Le's still coming with cabinet brackets installed and ply cabinet bottoms?

Good point - may explain why they started installing the lower Playfield then stopped.

Why the f would they send him this pf? Who is making these decisions?

Nah, stupid idea.

Don’t doubt that at all. And since it was mostly operators back then, they couldn’t have cared less about dimpling. Might have been an “issue”, but no one cared.

Hmm. Fills in a lot of blanks.

Vertical variations in pitch are normal in all modern games.

Had to “laugh“ earlier in this thread.....one really unhappy Stern customer.....and it turns out he is a competition player who bought through the IFPA.

The narrative from Stern and fanboys has always been “only home collectors are picky and complain about quality issues such as crap playfields, cheap coil stops, and half baked mechs. But it doesn’t matter, our target market is “real” pinball players and operators, and “real players” don’t care about this stuff.”

Well, the tide is out Stern - Covid has the screwed the operators and the comp players. And even the comp players are unhappy.

Guess you have no choice but to deal with the pesky home collectors now.

The metal back boxes are significantly lighter. Combined with the wiring, that’s the bulk of the weight difference.

Like this? What’s this, about 2-300%? Doesn’t look grainy to me.
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U didn’t need to ad that line PanzerFreak - he really is.

And yet here you are.....bitch.

Just curious how you found out about the Aerosmith cabinets and IM chipping? On Pinside? From whining bitches?

Only because of COVID production disruption.

But you’re right, they’ve got no reason to change.

The conspiracy theorist would say that in a monopoly market, a manufacturer could gradually reduce quality to create an artificial market for an “upgraded” option, such as a “premium Playfield”. But in sterns case I think it’s pure and simple cost cutting greed.

I think Mirco has no choice now but to label the new product “Spectrum”.

Very cool.

Also a dig at Haggis and Deeproot hammer tests. One better....the slasher test.

Thought I better resurrect this chestnut as it’s the answer to all Playfield pooling issues......Playfield art is overrated anyway.....

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Wide open Playfield.

Smaller hole and no art around the post - simple.

Someone should start a Pinball Philosophy thread.

Had the opposite experience with my IMDN ice. Perfect out of the box and still going strong.

You’ve really got to find a good huo LE with no problems and give the game a better chance. Absolutely one of Sterns top 5.

Been playing IMDN, Met, Wonka, AIQ, MM and Elvira tonight…..pinball Nirvana right there.

And zero Playfield issues on ANY of them.

For once i'm with you flynnibus ....between people with no idea what a bash toy is and those, namely iceman44 , that have no idea what a mech is, Pinside is collectively becoming more stupid by the day.

I think we need to start a Pinside definition thread where we can all (try) to agree on definitions.

Actually, I'll just write a list of what I think the definitions are as if it's established fact because that's how it works on Pinside. Plus I'm always right.

Quiet day on the playfield disintegration news desk.

Come on Pinside, post some more chip pics.........surely someones playfield is disintegrating before their eyes at this very moment!

The more the design team are confronted with the issues, the more they put pressure on management.

If JJP actually had a solution and owned up to the problem, he could at least have a response…”contact customer service and they’ll look after you.” But he can’t even do that.

He must be so pissed it rains on his parade - but so it should.

They’ll just put washers underneath which you can do easily yourself.

Whatever floats your boat. Personally prefer not to wait 6 months for a couple of washers to be installed then another 6 months for delivery. It’s a 5 minute fix.

Fair enough. What’s weird is how Stern seems to learn about a problem and a fix, then next release they’re back to square one again. I thought new builds of Deadpool coming with washers under the guides?

So they know of the problem but not implementing a simple washer fix on ball guides?!?!?

lol

This is complete bullshit. Have JJP actually lost their minds? Their Playfields are without exception complete crap, they make no effort to fix them, and now they are not recommending even trying to prevent them falling apart.

From now on I think I’m going to be happy with Stern and Spooky. It’s a shame because I like JJP games, but buying a $15 - 20k game (aud) and then being treated like that?!?!?

Unbelievable.