(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

3 months ago



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  • Latest reply 3 hours ago by Lamprey
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#904 3 months ago

I think if you get actual chipping (not just pooling) and get given a replacement PF free of charge that's a good and realistic outcome. It's a good halfway between no compensation and complete populated PF swap.

In reality most people wont swap the PF - they'll just put some washers on and keep the new PF as insurance. Hang it on the wall as art. Then the game will get sold down the track with a brand new uninstalled PF for the new buyer - almost a better outcome since the PF will be NOS and preferable to a used but installed PF.

I know some are expecting fully re-populated PF swaps, and for some very severe cases this may be warranted. But for the most part we should be happy to accept that there is a grey area between a commercial product that has high velocity steel ball flying around hitting things with huge force and a home consumer product / piece of art that should look pristine for as long as possible. A free of charge replacement PF is a good compromise that reflects that.

Kudos to JJP for accepting this and reaching out to affected owners.

#911 3 months ago
Quoted from PinB:

For reference, another new JP with pooling around the washers.
[quoted image]

That looks about ready to pop.

#926 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Cooked you know i love ya and you are one of my favorite pinsiders but there shouldn't be no halfway on a 6-13K game. The customer should not be out one penny for a defective playfield. It's 100% JJP and Sterns fault, the customer shouldn't be out any money because of these shit playfields.

Yeh I can definitely see your side. These issues are happening out of the box, so the argument that “ this is pinball” doesn’t really hold when no pinball has been played on the game.

I’ve had my fair share of serious Playfield issues. Almost all other issues can be resolved relatively easily. But Pf damage is usually “terminal”. I’m lucky in that I have the equipment and space to do a full pf swap - (and I actually enjoy it). But I still believe having a brand new NOS pf to offer when selling a game is at least as good or even better than a used one installed.

#935 3 months ago

A playfield is only new once.

#937 3 months ago
Quoted from andre060:

Totally agree. People underestimate the work to swap older games. I'll do a swap on a new one over an old one any day of the week.

Hot swapping new games is relatively easy if you have the tools. Even a "complex" game like WOZ. Leave the original populated PF in the game, new pf on a rotisserie - remove from old, install on new. As long as you take your time and are methodical about it.

Stripping, restoring and re-populating an old game is a different animal.

#1002 3 months ago
Quoted from LukyDuck:

And what would I do with all of the extra parts when I am done?

You build another game with the old Playfield.

#1005 3 months ago

So what’s the consensus on the best washers to use under the posts for these games? What size/material?

#1073 89 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

my engine has blown up in my car. BMW dropped a new engine off and I'm doing the swap myself.
Are you guys serious? A replacement playfield on its own is +nowhere+ NEAR an acceptable solution to this. Please please please for the love of god stop saying it is.
Cheers,
Neil.

Thats not the same at all. Playfield chipping is purely cosmetic.

It’s the equivalent of driving the car and the paint chipping under the wheel wells more easily than expected. Doesn’t affect drivability, it’s purely cosmetic and if it wasn’t happening so soon could be considered normal wear and tear.

Your analogy is equivalent to the Spike CPU dying, making the game unplayable. A simple swap fixes everything.

That’s why there needs to be a reasonable and equitable solution. It’s not as black and white as some like to believe.

I’m all for a good carguement, but in this case pinball is nothing like the car industry - it’s a tiny boutique hobby making discretionary toys. The car industry on the other hand is huge, hugely profitable, making objects essential to everyday life for every human on the planet. If the car fails it has very real, often life threatening, consequences.

The cost of recalls and warranty claims to the car industry are huge, but due to the scale of these companies, it’s easily absorbed.

Pinball is tiny by comparison.

I’m not saying this is not an issue. It is. But I think the solution needs to be reasonable for all parties. Washers for the posts is not satisfactory. A new unpopulated PF in my opinion is. If this issue is as widespread as Pinside would indicate, fully populated Playfield swaps for every game with pooling or chipping around posts would bankrupt some manufacturers in this industry.

#1075 89 days ago
Quoted from NintenBear:

Guitar manufacturing is a small business, and I look at Paul Reed Smith. PRS guitars are built in Maryland, and are some of the finest wood instruments in existence. Their quality is also top notch. My point is how are they able to produce such a fantastic items that last, yet I’d venture to say are the same size as Stern and JJP. IMHO, I think it comes down to their passion of quality and giving a crap that the owners name is attached to the instrument.

In this case I think the manufacturers have been caught out by supplier error. If we take this argument to it’s logical ending, Stern and JJP should be claiming the complete cost of mass populated Playfield swaps against Mirco (or whoever). There’s no way a small supplier like Mirco could bear the brunt of such a claim. They’d be struggling just to provide replacement Playfields I would think.

#1142 88 days ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Don’t get me wrong. I absolutely love this game but let’s compare a game that is 30+ years old to one that had no plays. Which looks better to you? The game that is 30+ years old or the one that was born on August 17th 2019.
[quoted image][quoted image]

The old one has cracking around the inserts! Just kidding, I know, its 30 years old.

#1143 88 days ago
Quoted from RonSS:

This thread is about playfield pooling and chipping. You're arguing springs and stops.

In @zaphx 's defence, he didn't bring the springs and stops into the mix - he was responding to another pinsider who did.

#1178 87 days ago
Quoted from PW79:

I was in the NIB market during Stern’s ghosted insert era (2017 me thinks)
Before pulling the trigger I reached out to Stern to see if they fixed the issue.
No response
Then the new Star Wars manual had wording stating ghosting was normal IIRC
So I bought a NIB Golden Tee instead & love it
This time around I am eyeing a NIB Big Buck Hunter HD
Or maybe I will just wait & see what Stern does
Either way I’m buying some more cool shit so life is good
Super Chex looks awesome. Get one dude!

Wonder what the resale is like on these games?

#1234 86 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Turn the lights on.

Potatoes don’t have flashes.

#1243 86 days ago
Quoted from Slugmeister:

Is this insight or an insult or what the hell

Just an insightful insult or an insulting insight. Lol.

No, really, you haven’t heard the saying “looks like the photo was taken with a potato”? I wasn’t calling you personally a potato. Just your camera. You have to admit it was a bad photo.

#1417 82 days ago
Quoted from tbutler6:

LE #20 shipped. No washers. No ink around posts. Compare to pro attached. From pre/le JP thread[quoted image][quoted image]

Can’t see what’s going on there. Any idea whether they’ve fixed the post in front of the upper flipper?

#1420 82 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

It looks like theres now a small area without artwork around each star post that didn't exist on early pros?

So they re-printed the Playfields? Hopefully they also tweaked the clear mix.

28
#1463 80 days ago

I just received my Jurassic Park LE with the new Playfield fixes. Very happy. Think it’s goung to last forever.

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#1494 79 days ago
Quoted from snaroff:

CPR sells it's PF's

How are CPR's new digital print PF's holding up?

#1506 79 days ago
Quoted from BeaglePuss:

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

That playfield is rooted.

#1588 78 days ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

I don't hope Deeproot already have some pile of playfields in stock that are digital printed for the first 3 games.
Deeproot can't deliver screenprinted playfield for the (low) price point i think.

Guaranteed Deeproot will be hardtop.

#1635 78 days ago

Just inboxed a March 19 built Deadpool Premium and the Playfield is perfect.

#1643 78 days ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

Better yet, disassemble it and immediately and put thin washers under all ball guides (unless Stern took the initiative to do it by now).

I did that before playing. It’s a March build, so before this chipping thing blew up and Stern started using washers. But there’s no sign of any pooling at all on the pf and it’s had 6 months to do it.

#1658 77 days ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

Hate to say it.. so were all mine out of the box.
It seems to happen at the posts where the ball hits them full on.
Good luck you may have a good one.

Great, something to look forward to. Adds a whole new level to NIB pinball ownership.

#1807 73 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

And now we have the latest news that Deeproot will offer a 10 year playfield warranty.
10 years.
Yes, it's still all talk but boy if they deliver, Stern and co have every right to be getting pretty worried.

Easy to offer on a printed plastic hardtop Playfield.

#2125 69 days ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

There will be an update soon so it can in the options, Would you like cratering, pooling or peeling? NIB or in 2 month, 6 months or 1 year? Please select.

Quoted from o-din:

I want an option where I can see cabinet corners splitting too.

Lol. I’m not downloading until it’s got ghosting and node board failure.

#2126 69 days ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

So is this how deeproot intends to reduce cost and yet provide a ten year warranty on playfields?

Yes.

Thunderbirds, for all its mediocrity, is actually a really well built game (for the most part). It has a hardtop pf and looks fantastic. Seems to play ok.

Personally I’m not a fan of hardtop vs real wood but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the next step for all manufacturers.

#2143 68 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Before Stern swapped out my Ghostbusters PF they sent me a bottle of clear. That won't be the final resolution for those with a truly bad playfield. The frenzy on here, while understandable to a certain extent, is also quite over the top. Give Stern a chance to make it right. Can't speak for JJP as I have not been a customer, but I have not seen an example of a populated playfield replacement from them.

Obviously I know Stern do send out populated pf’s for severe cases, but why send out a bottle of clear if your intention is to replace the Playfield?

It’s a process of giving the bear minimum the customer will accept.

2 weeks later
#2656 50 days ago

I would have thought a Dinosaur themed game would be right up O-din's alley....being a Dinosaur and all.....Ha ha....Ha..

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