You guys are assuming that the Stern leak was intentional?
If it was, then why wouldn’t they just announce the next game?
I don’t follow your logic. Seems like a case of assuming the worst, without having any real information.

Well it’s great to hear the JJP is fixing their issues. Last I heard, they were charging $500 for an unpopulated playfield as the “fix”. Not sure what else they can afford to do but this doesn’t seem like a solution that I’d be pleased with, personally.
For Stern, fingers are crossed they’ve got this figured out and put behind them. Curious to hear if/how they’ll help any buyers who have issues.
Sucks for everybody, no exceptions.

Isn’t that playfield only relevant if it was produced after Stern changed to their new “no art near the posts” way of producing playfields? Given they have a video for it, I’d be thinking strongly that the playfield in question was made the same way as the other defective ones and that (fingers remain crossed) the issue has been resolved.
Everyone’s still waiting to hear from the newest Jurassic Park LE owners for confirmation, as I understand it?

Because it has been made clear that they DID make some changes. It remains to be seen if all problems are now solved, so we wait optimistically.
(As opposed to taking a conspiracy theory approach and suggesting that their leaked info was intentional and that it came from someone at Stern who thought it would trick everyone into buying games with defective... Good grief man. Get a grip.)

Nope, I saw that too. But the regular Pinside naysayer/Stern bashers are a little too quick to assume that this was made recently, in my opinion.
From what I've read on here, the first "corrected" playfields were received last Friday? If that's accurate, it's highly likely that the Elvira playfield was made before that. (They had time to complete a video on it, and take press release photos, right?)

I'm just saying that the new playfields are already in Pinsiders homes so let's wait to hear from them to see if the problems are fixed, instead of assuming that they aren't.

Riiiiiiiight. If you’re not bashing Stern, you’re an apologist.
People like you make Pinside the LEAST pinball-friendly site there is.

Considering your collection doesn’t contain a single Stern title, you “Sir”, sound like a troll.

Maybe it’s time to update your collection.

Out of curiosity, how is your maiden playfield doing?

That, and the fact that Stern has made a change that so far, appears to have fixed the issue.

Quite possibly the first and only time that the word “perfect” has been used to describe Last Action Hero?
; )

What exactly has Stern done that could be seen as “sweeping this under the rug”?

Yeah, not getting it right doesn’t qualify as “sweeping it under the rug” in my opinion.
Appears as though they tried fixing it but their fix wasn’t successful.
Whereas “sweeping it under the rug” has a much more sinister meaning, in my opinion.

How widespread is it then, Flynn? What percentage of owners have reported issues to Stern? 1%? 5%? More? You tell me. Stern has made changes the fix the issue which is light chipping around a couple posts, that doesn’t affect gameplay.
I don’t want an imperfect playfield any more than anyone else, but from their view, I doubt this is an issue worthy of stopping the production lines.
Hopefully they’ll replace some of the playfields with the biggest issues, but from a legal standpoint, I doubt it’s in their best interest to make an announcement, drawing people’s attention to light pooling, for the most part -that doesn’t even affect gameplay.
Now, let’s agree that there are different ways they could have handled this, and that you would have liked something different. Fine.
But that’s not the same as stating that they’re sweeping the issue under the rug. In fact, they changed the process and that seems to have fixed the issue.
I would expect they’ll continue to deal with some owners on a case by case basis, as warranted -but I expect that they won’t replace playfields for every owner who found light pooling after reading Pinside and rushing down to inspect their machines.

Follow the post. The context was that Stern had said it’s not a widespread issue and Flynn states it is.

Dude, you’re way out in left field. Nobody said issues should or should not be remedied.
The discussion was that Stern has stated it’s not widespread.
That’s all.

Good luck with your Wonka.

And there’s a whole other interesting topic of discussion. Pooling.
ASSUMING it’s only ever pooling, and doesn’t get to chipping, should Stern pay to replace entire playfields? Not in my opinion.
Should they replace playfields with minor chipping near a post? I sure hope they do, cause I like my playfields perfect -but that’s the “collector” approach that I have. Assuming the chip doesn’t affect the gameplay, and the game still works as intended, why would a company offer to pay the costs of replacing playfields? Especially when they’ve previously syptated that playfields aren’t under warranty.
Only if it drastically affects future sales, is the answer.

Damn, I seriously hope we never get to paying for extended warranties as is common in some industries.

Disagree. They may have noticed that it was 100% of playfields for a 1 week period and that they needed to fix it moving forward, but that 1 week worth of pins isn’t considered “widespread” in the grand scheme of things.
Something worthy of fixing does not indicate “widespread”.
Does it?

No, of course not. I never said that anyone was a liar.
The discussion is whether there are enough issues to be called “widespread”.

I’ve posted enough on the subject as expressed my opinion.
You are all welcome to your own, and I respect that, truly.

I’m just not a fan if people labelling Stern when I don’t think they are intentionally deceiving anyone.
Of course, you are welcome to vote with your wallets and avoid future pins u til such time as you feel supported enough to purchase.

I think we all can appreciate your stance, especially if the chipping has occurred in so many areas.
I would hope that Stern does take care of you. I would almost guarantee though that it won’t happen quickly.

I love the smell of clearcoat, in the morning.

Well, if they said it's not widespread, they're not indicating it didn't happen. And again, given the number of pins that were produced, and given we don't know how many have experienced chipping (I'm going to assume that Stern isnt concerned about pooling since it 's only cosmetic), it could absolutely be considered to be "not widespread".
So no, "cover-up" is equally ridiculous and accusatory.

With respect to another posters comments, assuming that all of the pooling will lead to chipping in a few years and demanding playfields be replaced is also absolutely insane. What company is going to spend money, replacing things that aren't broken.

Pinside is nuts. It COULD be the most positive place to discuss pinball, where distributors like Stern COULD ask us for opinions and feedback.
Instead, (and I'm going to quote a friend here) it's a dumpster fire that Stern understandably wants no part of.

From my point of view, you can't accuse them of lying, using words like "cover up" and also expect them to spend thousands of dollars on issues that haven't proven to be a problem yet (pooling), and also criticize them for not announcing every issue they encounter.
Their choice to deal with defects on a case by case basis is the only thing that seems to make sense around here.

You are welcome to be critical of the way they operate, and refuse to spend your hard earned cash on anything they produce.
I on the other hand, am looking forward to picking up a Jurassic Park Premium as soon as possible.

I am currently "out of F(*&s to give" as they say. If you want to hate on Stern, have fun with your Wonkas.
I'm out.

Again, absolutely ridiculous.
A car that’s defective is massively different from a pinball machine.
(I don’t want to give it away completely, but think of what happens to the user when these two very different machines fail to operate as intended)

The other thing to consider is this: Pinsiders appear to consider pooling on par with global warming. Operators likely do not share the same concern. So Stern announcing a recall and drawing attention to something that’s perhaps not even important, is not only unnecessary, it’s throwing money down the drain. That money is recouped with higher prices.
If that’s what you want, you’re on your own.

I’m not missing the point at all. We weren’t talking about how high the bar has to be for high end collectors.
But since you bring it up, are you suggesting that the owners of Pro machines aren’t entitled to the same level of quality as the LE owners? Please clarify.
My own view is that all machines should operate as intended. I would say that large chips could prevent that from happening and should warrant replacement. I would also suggest that smaller chips do not change the playability, but given the cost of these, it’s a “nice” thing for Stern to eat the replacement cost, if possible.
Pooling? Shouldn’t even be replaced for high end collectors UNLESS it’s proven to deteriorate to severe chipping in the future.

If you think that you have the right to a replacement simply because there are small wrinkles around a couple posts that you only notice when searching for, after having read about it on Pinside, that’s your right. But good luck with that.
This isn’t a Rolex or a Masseratti we’re talking about.

I would much prefer to hold them accountable to better playing auto launcher mechs, for example.

Great point!
“If a game is expensive, we automatically get to amend the warranty in our favour!”

This is the ridiculousness that is Pinside.
Stern (I believe?) has stated that they will review play fields on a case by case basis. But Pinsiders are upset that Stern hasn’t made a public announcement, over an issue that so far seems to be (in most of the cases) cosmetic, only?

I’m glad we could hash this out to nail down everyone’s expectations of Stern.
Seems reasonable.

Agreed. Why not ask them to explain their process when it comes to returns/defects.
Have them explain what THEY consider to be worthy of replacement.
Then you all know what to expect before spending hard earned cash on a new machine.
The “case by case” explanation is vague, and leaves owners wondering what to expect.

Thank you for clearly demonstrating your level of knowledge when it comes to pinball manufacturing.
(Your pinball company just went bankrupt FYI)

-your Pal, “Gary”

He accused me of it earlier so I’m just having fun with it.

Thinking more about your view point, I’ll say this:
You have an unrealistic level of expectation from Stern.
They have clearly stated that playfields are not under warranty.
You insist on a perfect playfield.

Neither of you is “wrong” but you have not agreed on this matter.
You appear to feel that Stern is obligated/indebted to provide perfect playfields and that anything less than 100% should be replaced at their expense. Remember that this is Stern pinball we’re talking about. It’s not Sony, Apple, or Toyota.
Yes, they are the biggest pinball manufacturer, but this is an industry that most people don’t even know exists.
There are no Ferrari’s in the parking lot.

Given this inability to agree on a perfect playfield, it’s really best for you to avoid buying new in box, and instead to wait and buy a second hand game that you can inspect, ensuring it’s to your satisfaction.

There’s nothing wrong with that, and it’s not meant to belittle or insult you so I hope you can appreciate the observation.

Quite frankly, it shouldn’t matter one bit to me. But I get annoyed when some people (not saying you), can’t understand that Stern is already offering more than they have committed to, and then try to call them out for lying, sweeping things under the rug, etc etc. They may not be operating to your level of expectation, but that doesn’t mean that they’re deceitful or doing anything wrong.

Try to keep up, Utah.
There’s this thing, called “the environment”. And as of late, companies are no longer allowed to use super harsh chemicals because it’s bad for this “environment”. So things have changed.

Here is the thing: just because YOU deem it to be reasonable to expect something, doesn’t mean that the manufacturers are in agreement. In this case, they aren’t. See the warranty if you want evidence.

Your expectations of what constitutes acceptable for a new product from a pinball manufacturer is pretty unrealistic in today’s world.

I LOVE the fact that this has come down to some Pinsiders stating that they demand play field perfection. It makes the discussion so much easier to comprehend. One expectation is not equal to what’s being offered. In this case, the manufacturer has put their commitment in writing. Yours is known only to you and may be subject to change at anytime without notice.

Hey, you started with the name calling. Don’t be shocked that I’m now giving back!

With respect to the current state of pinball, I have no idea what CGC uses. You’d have to ask them.
Fingers crossed. So far, JP LE playfields and the most recent Pro models appear to have no issues.
Here’s hoping it was just a bump that was hit, converting to a new process and all this is behind us.

Agreed. I should have said something like: “it has been said that the EPA has forced them to change the ingredients”
Who really knows? In this case, it’s kinda irrelevant though. It is what it is and we are forced to deal with these changes.

Again, the silver lining appears to be that currently produced playfields are ok. So fingers are crossed.
(Meaning that whatever they are doing/using currently might be “back to normal”?)

People have declared that the clear is thinner on the new pins. Would be kinda funny if we found out that Stern tried pleasing us all by applying thicker clear, only to have this happen.

I don’t think anyone here would disagree with you. Good luck with a replacement. I do hope that Stern considers this on a “case by case basis” and rules in your favour.
Heads up though: the return decision and process is typically quite lengthy. Doesn’t happen quickly.

I have not. And yes, chipping would bug me. Pooling? I don’t give a rats behind. If I had chipping, I would hope that Stern would make it right, but know that it’s not guaranteed.

On another note, I have purchased a previous LE (more than one, but one in particular), and lost a ton when I resold it.
I don’t blame Stern for that. I knew all the numbers going in, and that resale prices are dependant on the pins popularity and the market. Life goes on.

That’s funny. That was taken while playing a 4 player game with Lyman, Penny, and a good friend of mine.
One of my favs. I got to play pinball with Lyman!

I'd love to know if ANYONE else got that sense from my post. It was not what I had intended, or meant to infer.

I just meant that I believe that’s the reason for recent changes.
But as pointed out to me, that’s not been confirmed so I could be mistaken.
Wasn’t trying to guilt anyone for anything.

No, it’s not. I’ve spent a truckload of money of numerous NiBs and resell for less each time, obviously.
Taking a further hit with a playfield issue would affect me directly.

So thanks for trying to discount my opinion.

The truth is, it’s not about any of our opinions. Warranties are very clear. What’s covered is very clear.
What you are expecting is not covered by warranty. Feelings aren’t relevant.

What I’ve said all along is that it’s on the buyer to understand the terms of agreement before buying a game.
If Stern was playing by their own rules, they’d tell all the owners with pooling and chipping to pound sand.
(We know that would cost them customers, but that’s not the point right now)
They are working on issues “on a case by case basis” apparently. I hope that means that EVERYONE (pooling or chipping) gets a new play field -but if Stern determines that pooling doesn’t affect gameplay, and if they believe that it won’t always lead to chipping, it’s their right to refuse returns. As a buyer, you should know that before putting your money down.

I’m not telling anyone that they should like this state that we’re in. I’m just pointing out the other side to this.
When Stern has so carefully pointed out that playfields are not all covered by warranty and you get one that’s minorly imperfect, and you start screaming bloody murder... it’s a little naive.

It Would be great to better understand what Stern will and won’t replace before buying.
Maybe that’s something that could be asked at Expo, or the next show.

Deleted.

This topic isn’t exclusive to people who already have play fields that they are unhappy with.
It will continue to affect all of us who are potential future buyers.
It’s important for all of us to understand what we’re getting into.
In fact, it’s probably even more important for potential buyers than current owners.

I’m hoping that it was included so that Stern could tell some people like KPG to pound sand until they are ready to make the replacement/return, instead of having a return forced down their throat like it was. Their returns are not typically as fast as we would like to see -which I understand, but others have different opinions. (Which is fine too)
And I’m hoping that they will continue to protect all buyers under their “case by case” basis definition.
Regardless of your stance on the subject, it will absolutely cause them to lose some sales in the future if they stick to the exact wording in that warranty, as written currently.
Ideally, we will be provided with some kind of explanation as to how they decide who is, and who isn’t covered under this “case by case” basis.
If pooling is deemed by them to be acceptable, it might be a non-issue for most.
If chipping is deemed acceptable, I’ll bet many home buyers will chose not to take the risk.
The not knowing what is, and what is not deemed as “returnable” is the most frustrating aspect of all this, in my opinion.

You ought to relax, seriously.
That playfield is messed up for sure, and I posted support in the LE thread that he should escalate to Stern and expect them to back him up, 100% (just so you know where I'm coming from) -but as I posted there, that looks like a screw ripped through the wet clear and artwork while in the factory.
Owner confirmed that the peeled paint is covered in clear, so unless you know better, I'd say it's not as you described, "paint just flaking off".

I think it's really important to figure out what caused that "tear" in the artwork. If you are somehow correct, then yes, all bets are off and maybe it's best for everyone to wait this out.
But if you're all fired up and yelling "fire!, fire!" when it's just a one-off caused by a sharp screw in the apron that tore through the clear and art at installation, then that's a one-off, and likely not an issue that should frighten potential buyers.

I posted in the other thread that if anyone with a JPLE wants to remove the apron, to see if a screw is located anywhere near there, that might support my theory.

I think the benefit of a place like Pinside is when you have owners helping other owners, not raising pitchforks without much information.

Any other opinions on the cause of that "tear" is welcome, of course!

Whatever you say Buddy. You’re “not a Stern basher”?
Then why were you so quick to post that all of these things are time bombs, and that the paint is flaking (Which doesn’t appear to be the case) IMMEDIATELY after seeing those pics, without any real information?
I can appreciate that I have an unpopular opinion, and will get downvoted, but you went so far as to downvote my deleted post AFTER I deleted it. You’re so angry, you’re not being objective anymore.
You label me “Pro Stern”, yet all I’ve said is that buyers expecting collector quality playfields have themselves to blame ever since Stern states that play fields are no longer warrantied. That’s not pro-Stern buddy, that’s just recognizing their offering and stating it publicly.
You upvote these idiots who are so quick to jump on the “down with Stern” comments. You guys really do make this the least pinball-friendly site in existence.
I’m all for hawkmoon sharing his pics and relaying his dealings with Stern. It’s good for everyone to know what to expect if they have a similar situation. But what you and many others are doing is more along the lines of slander.
Seriously. Take a stroll over to the JPLE thread. With (I think) 2 exceptions: hawkmoon and a guy with some scratches on his playfield, everyone seems to be whoopin it up, having a blast with their new games.
And yet you and the rest of the Pinball-Pity-Party-Patrol are in here, telling everyone not to buy new machines cause they’re all defective.
Unfortunately, there are about 20 Pinsiders who share your view and they’re in here downvoting anyone like myself, constantly.
Fortunately, their opinions really don’t matter cause the rest of Pinside is enjoying their games (be it JJP, Stern, Bally, whatever).
I have issues and complaints with Stern. Personally I think that someone over there needs to design a much better auto-launch mech. I’m also annoyed that when I bought my ACDC, it was about 50% less than what I’m paying for a premium, currently. The difference between people like you and people like me is, I understand that currency has a part in that, and that my country charges taxes on the value AFTER currency, AND that Stern has the right to charge whatever the market is willing to pay! In short, I’m not in here screaming bloody murder like a four year old who dropped his cookie, because I try to take the time to understand both sides instead of just “me, me, me”.

There’s nothing wrong with sitting out for a bit and waiting for fewer reports of playfield issues. There appear to be far more than usual on the recent Jurassic Park Pro models. It sucks. There’s no arguing that.
But the ratio of LEs that appear to be fine also deserve to be mentioned. It appears to be back to “normal”.
Then yesterday we see a game with some kinda weird tear/scratch in it, and the Pinball-Pity-Party-Patrol sounds the sirens, with one member saying something as stupid as “Stern had three tries and flunked them all” -because he’s found 3 people with issues! (Not to mention your comments about how you just KNOW that because you can’t see a scratch in the wood, that this is an ongoing, serious issue.)

All of you PPPP members need to shake your heads and try to see things objectively. Not from the “pro Stern” stance -but not from the usual: “1 guy had a problem... let’s all post numerous memes about how bad Sterns QC is! DOWN WITH STERN! DOWN WITH STERN!”

Seriously. As I’ve always said, the sharing of ACCURATE information is the tool, that could make Pinside a great place.
The spreading of rumours/accusations, founded on little/no information, prevents this from being a great place.

Warranties are easy to figure out. Read it before you buy a game. Have realistic expectations before laying down your money is pretty much what I’ve said all along.

FYI: last night I decided to go in 50/50 with a buddy for a JPLE. So yeah, I have “skin in the game”.

Final suggestion: if you want to hate on me, just downvote my post(s). If you reply to this and call me out, I’ll likely reply again and again, dragging this on. I’ve said more than enough already and way more than I intended, when I came in here to show how silly some people are for slandering Stern.

I was aiming for something in the middle, (more neutral) since I also spend thousands of dollars on new games, but I'll take that description if the only other options is "a pitchfork carrying member of the Pinball Pity-Party Patrol".

God forbid anyone on Pinside would view Stern from anything less-than the absolute most negative point of view:

"Stern sent you a bottle of clearcoat? That MUST mean that it's their final resolution, and they don't care about you. There's NO WAY that the issue might also be travelling up to the second support tier for review." (Let's not clarify, just assume. It fits our agenda)

"a JPLE, recently unboxed, is using the old artwork under the slings again? That MUST mean that Stern has used the old defective playfields and everything will fall apart. There's NO WAY that they've fixed anything. I know you didn't see any issues, but I maintain my negativity by declaring that issues WILL CERTAINLY arise in the future."

Question: how many Pinsiders does it take to change a playfield?
Answer: 21. 1 to contact Stern and make the swap. 20 more to complain about it online.

(Flamesuit on)

Has Stern refused any returns? (Honest question)
Curious to know if anyone has been refused a return and if so, what condition their playfield was in.
It’s my impression that they are replacing these defects, despite not being listed in the warranty.
Interested in hearing if that’s not accurate.

I specifically asked if anyone had been REFUSED.
Still waiting is not the same as refused.

Stern also took quite a while to swap ghostbusters playfields but in the end, I think they got them all.

Considering it was 38 days ago when you first reported the pooling and shooter lane chipping, you may want to chill for a little while before calling out your distributor and Stern for “doing nothing”.
If they do decide to fix/replace it, it’s likely to take a few months, I would guess?

Hey, if your pal wants to blow his brains out with a new “I hate Stern” post every single day, have at er.
I’m just suggesting that previously, It has taken far longer than 38 days for any issue to be corrected.
Of course, he’s well aware of that fact judging by the numerous (and I do mean NUMEROUS) posts he’s made in this thread alone, advertising how shitty Stern quality is, and that he’ll never buy from them... never buy a NIB, was tempted to buy but will pass due to issues... etc etc etc until “I bought one!!!”
There’s not a Pinsider alive who isn’t aware of Stern games and what you might get into when you buy one, as well as how long a process it can take to have anything resolved. (Same can be said for ANY pinball manufacturer currently?)
Pretending to be unaware, and coming on here Posting innocent is not going to help anyone, and just looks silly.

MultiballManiac: I do sincerely hope that your problem is resolved to your satisfaction, but it’s not likely going to happen as quickly as you’d like. I suggest continuing to follow up with your supplier from time to time, but enjoy your game in the meanwhile and try not to let it stress you out too much. Fingers are crossed for ya. Please post updates.

There is no high road. This is Pinside.

Because of the 6700 posts, a very small fraction of them are actual owners with issues!
Yes, there are some but considering the number of games being produced and the past experience I’ve had with both my supplier and Stern, I’ll take the chance. I figure worst case, you sell your game at a loss when you’re done enjoying it to someone else? We all lose on resale so taking a small risk that it’s another $500?
Especially when it appears as though there have been minimal issues with the last couple/few titles from what I’ve seen.
Not to mention, if I see pooling, I’m buying one of those irons for $40 on Amazon.