Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:
But I didn’t think Stern had these issues? Kidding. And sorry for making a joke at your expense.
I hope everyone gets satisfaction from their manufacturer and distributor. Everybody knows that resale values matter in our hobby. Anyone that suggests otherwise is a fucking douchebag that likes long hard things rammed up their ass on a continual basis, to distract them from their otherwise clueless existence and basic moronic personality.
No problem. I probably said that at one point.
Really holding out hope Stern will not turn their head to this.
I can show you picks of a routed DE JP. No issues with the clear around the star posts on that one.
Quoted from zaphX:
Of course, we all do.
I'm just saying, some of the issues people are freaking about - coil stops, shooter springs - these are 60 second fixes easily done.
I think we could all do with assuming positive intent. The manufacturers of these games are not twisting their mustaches thinking up evil ways to piss off pinball buyers. The folks going this industry do it because they love pinball - it's obviously a very tricky business to be in (as evidenced by the high profile flameouts of others who have tried.)
Sure. Those are easy fixes I agree with you. But we are in a thread talking about clear coat issues. As a person who has bought 20+ NIB games, the clear on these games is absolutely terrible. I can live with a bubble here or there but when there is tearing and separation when the game has even been played I get a little pissed. Then you have people saying it’s not a big deal. Those are typically not the people buying the games and those that are probably don’t know any better.
Don’t get me wrong. I absolutely love this game but let’s compare a game that is 30+ years old to one that had no plays. Which looks better to you? The game that is 30+ years old or the one that was born on August 17th 2019.
Quoted from cpr9999:
Did you chat with distributor/Stern and what are they willing to do?
My distributor sent pictures to Stern. Still waiting for an answer.
Still waiting for an answer on my WONKA as well but that has been over a month.
Surprisingly my Black Knight Premium looks perfect.
Quoted from PtownPin:
Has anyone heard back from Stern on this issue? Its not much, but it at least JJP is recognizing that its an issue and have provided free play fields to people who are affected....has Stern done anything?
They never got back to me either when I couldn’t update GOT.
No worries. Sorry you are having issues as well.
Quoted from jfh:
Good advice if you want a Premium; not so much if you are interested in an LE. I’ve never understood why LEs go first before production issues are worked out.
Sell them while the hype is high. If they waited they would have less people buying LEs. Elvira has already been announced. Hype train keeps rolling.
I stopped buying LEs. There is no value in them IMHO.
Quoted from zaphX:
In the vein of "making the best of a bad situation"...
Titan Pinball has released some silicone washers for the playfield problem. Thought I'd pass the link on in case people haven't seen them.
That won’t do anything to fix this problem
See. There is already a washer Stern placed on the game.
Quoted from bigd1979:
I bought a wonka le a few weeks ago with some pooling around some of the posts(no chipping) . First thing i did when i got it home and set up was take sling post off and few other post on the lower half of the playfield. I used big washers under the posts and lightly tightened them and let it sit overnight. The next day i removed them and everything was relatively flat and back in place. From what i cld tell a combination of overtighteneing along with the inward pressure of the rubbers along with sling going off which created more inward pressure caused the art work to start bunching up. I went to Lowe's and found nylon and rubber washers that i added under those areas and didn't over tighten anything . So far after hundreds of plays everything has been ok and no pooling/movement has occurred and the playfield looks great with hardly any dimples and the clear looks very nice. Eventually ill probably order the nicer lookin clear titan silicone washers but I'm happy so far with everything. [quoted image][quoted image]
The question is if there is pooling and the washers are on it will the artwork pull off when the post/washer is removed in the future.
Quoted from iceman44:
Who is gonna organize the attack on Stern at expo and demand answers from them on the spot? Or will it be the usual ass kissing contest?
Need to hammer away like this thread until they cave!
Tie yourselves together in a human blockade and block off the exits until we get some info!
Or no one attends! That would send a clearer message that people are not happy.
Quoted from hawkmoon77:
For what it's worth, I build musical instruments as a hobby, and there is a known issue with lacquer pooling around the guitar tuners on the headstock. I don't know if it is a similar cause here, but with regard to guitars -- if this happens, it has almost everything to do with curing. Here are some factors:
- 3 thin coats spaced 30 minutes apart, then a full nights cure, then repeat the next day. Then allow a few weeks before tightening the guitar tuners on. This allows the solvents to evaporate correctly between sprays. Applying too thick of a coat too soon will trap the solvents as the outer layer "skins." And while reducing the overall thickness of the clear would help prevent the problem, super thin clear coats aren't generally well received in the guitar world (where applicable) because they lack visual depth and have poor wear resistance.
- Tightening a guitar tuner on uncured clear will trap solvents under the nut. These trapped solvents will soften the paint or finish underneath. This will manifest as a flaking clear coat.
- In the luthier world, it's called creep. It happens to glue and clear coats. A thick glue, when squeezed together,will push out slowly over time during the drying process resulting in what is being called pooling here. This is removed before finishing, but a thick, built up clear coat will do this too. The continuous pressure on uncured clear will cause it to slowly migrate toward the outer edges and pool or bubble. The trapped solvents will then leach into the underlying finish, softening it, and making it flake off. If is unpainted natural wood, it is less likely to happen because the solvents leach into the raw wood and disperse better. The hardest part is that creep is difficult to catch because it all looks fine at first until a week or so later when the clear slowly migrates out to the edges.
The luthier community solved this problem a long time ago by applying more thin coats instead of fewer thicker coats, letting them dry between coats, and then allowing it to cure before covering up portions of it with screwed down nuts. Every so often, the issue re-emerges when a manufacturer decides to save time by changing up the process.
I am NOT saying that is what is happening to the PFs, and there are other things that can cause similar problems (like overtightening, bad lacquer chemistry, bad surface prep, etc.), but I can't help notice a similarity between these problems.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Seems similar to the playfield issues.
Quoted from JodyG:
Stern is still doing full populated playfield swaps, but the bar is really high....like 5 levels of approval to get one approved.
I was told I would be sent an unpopulated playfield Nov 1st for my Jurassic Park that had wear around the post direct from the factory. Still nothing from Stern.
I’m moving on from Stern and not dealing with this shit any longer. They clearly don’t want my business Or want to correct the situation and I’m sick of contacting my distributor to try and make it right. Keep your fucking playfield Stern!
Quoted from Who-Dey:
How many plays is on it now? It doesn’t look terrible but its still unacceptable for a new game and it will no doubt keep getting worse. I think pooling around the small posts is the worse area because the ball really smacks those posts hard and causes a lot of stress on the playfield.
149 to date. I do have pooling around the small post and others. Those areas have not chipped yet but I know they are going to.
Quoted from V4Vendetta:
and what is stern's response to your problem??
I have had my distributor dealing with Stern. I did not contact them directly because they NEVER respond to my emails. My distributor told me I would get a new unpopulated playfield. That was back in early November. He has checked with them a few times about sending one out to me.
Quoted from cpr9999:
There is a $500 price drop plus it will scare off a large percentage of future buyers.
Replacement playfield is only way to not take a hit now - unfortunately.
I agree. I have done a few playfield swaps and they roughly take 40-60 hours when you do them. It really sucks that I’ll have to do all the work for a NIB game that had the issue to start with (chipping).
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
I hope Stern offers a fully populated playfield replacement. That is not acceptable.
They won’t. They don’t care. Why would they help me out? I’ve only bought 19 NIB games from them in the last 10 years. I’m just a number like everyone else. Unless you are in the industry or know someone at Stern they are not going to go the extra mile. They are more worried about getting games on the line then fixing issues that go out the door.
I told my distributor I would not buy Elvira and now Stranger Things. I’m not going to buy a new game from them to repopulate another playfield. My time and money are too valuable.
When I do repopulate it, assuming I still get a playfield, I am going to stream it and put it up on YouTube and Facebook. At least it’s will help those effected.
Quoted from No_Pickles:
I'm not trying to be a wise guy or anything but I'm a relative noob and want to understand what I'm looking at.
Is the problem in the photos around the lower post, with the metal washer under it?
It looks like the blue paint around the post has chipped and that's what the white areas are?
Likely the paint/clear flaking aka paint chips
Quoted from apinballwiz:
This is just totally insane. Someone purchases a staggering 19 NIB multi thousand dollar games each in the last 10 years, and the best they could do is offer you an unpopulated playfield for a brand new game with 149 plays on it??? What a joke. At a MINIMUM send you a populated playfield without talk, just action. If the majority of your games were purchased from the same distributor it doesn't sound like they fought enough in your behalf IMHO.
Just blows my mind with all the posts I've read how many pinsiders with playfield issues have been taking it up the tailpipe. Glad to see that things seem better with later runs, but come on, show respect and take care of customers like Tom and others the way they deserve to be! Rant over.....
My distributor was going to talk to them yesterday. Haven’t heard anything back.
Quoted from snaroff:
Car paint jobs vary pretty dramatically between car manufacturers (i.e. the paint quality on a Honda Civic isn't the same as an Audi R8). I've owned both, so I have first hand experience. Some manufacturers "upcharge" for certain colors.
In any event, most cars are painted by robots. Stern's games are built largely by humans. Whenever humans are doing the job, it's tougher to control quality...especially when you are likely employing humans at minimum wage and measuring them on day-to-day output (rather than quality).
I'm not excusing the quality issues...I sympathize with many folks having to deal with issues (including myself
So Stern should hire robots. Gotcha.
Quoted from imagamejunky:
I am very very happy to report that I just got a phone call from Stern this morning. They are shipping me a populated playfield. This is very good news. And an early Christmas present.
Stern is doing the right thing!
Wish I would get that call.
Good on Stern to make it right.
Shit, this person needs a new playfield more than I do. I noticed some pitting (Not dimples - actual pin holes) on mine day one. It is minor, I didn’t report. This shit has to stop Stern.
Mine is also an August build.
I really don’t like complaining about Stern. I love their games but this was the playfield I was sent as my replacement playfield. It looks okay in the front. The back looks like the scene from the end of a porn film. There is clear everywhere.
It took 5 months to send me this one. Sure I can sand the back and get the large drops of clear off the back by the shooter lane switch. This is the quality Stern is accepting now?
If I was the Quality Inspector/Director, I would be pretty embarrassed with my product. I am glad the front at least looks okay.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
I wouldn't worry about it the back of your playfield will never show any dimpling so it's a wash.
Looking forward to the thread where everybody removes everything from the underside of their Stern playfields so we can compare the quality.
I don’t worry about dimpling. I worry about the clear and artwork tearing around the playfield from posts being screwed down too tight. That’s what happened with my playfield when I unboxed it and got worse with play. Not dimples, those are normal. First playfield I’ve seen were the clear ran all over the back of the playfield. It’s pretty sloppy. Happy the front looks good.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
Does it seem like Stern just removed artwork around posts but didn't address the actual root cause of the issue? I haven't heard of any JJP playfield problems from Oct to now but Stern playfield issues seem to keep popping up on newer builds.
JJP isn’t immune to playfield problems either.
Quoted from jorant:
Since we are posting things that are common knowledge, I figured I'd contribute.
Yes, the early Wonkas and all the Pirates have those playfield issues. That's not a secret, but they do seem fixed now.
I’m glad a six year old could teach you sex ed.
I guess the lesson to be learned is do not Buy NIB early then.
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