(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

6 months ago

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  • 4,933 posts
  • 495 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 hours ago by snaroff
  • Topic is favorited by 134 Pinsiders


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#57 6 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

What could they really say that would put people at ease? Even a statement like "We are aware of some issues, we're working on it, blah blah blah" would temporarily disrupt their sales, upset distributors stuck with defective products, and would cost tens of thousands of dollars every day if they have to halt the production line.
They're probably running around trying to figure it out themselves.

They're probably just figuring out some nice wording to put in the manual/warranty right below the "Ghosting of inserts is considered a normal byproduct of playfield production and is not covered by warranty" line, that says something to the effect of "Pooling of the clearcoat around playfield posts and any subsequent chipping of clearcoat and loss of playfield art, is considered a normal byproduct of playfield production and is not covered by warranty".

You're welcome for the idea Stern and JJP, just make sure you change my wording so it doesn't look like you directly lifted this glorious idea from me. Just send me a t-shirt or something as a way of saying thanks.

#60 6 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Sure. Then you would only have to wipe off the specs of paint as they chipped off.

One easy step closer to having a desirable white wood model of all the popular new games.

#164 6 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

I just cancelled my subscription to the resurrection.

I'll send your credentials to the House of Detention.

#216 6 months ago

Crap.. just noticed my Luci VE has wrinkling and a chunk of art missing from behind the right lower sling post. Guess I'll be disassembling this and trying to flatten it, put some water thin Super Glue in there to lock it down and then touch it up. Build date March 8th, 2018. Playfield is stamped with a small "CS" and a larger "VW-N" and dated 2-28 if that means anything.
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#218 6 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Shhhhh. Don't say anything just sell it

Right! Nothing to see here fellas, lol. It's HUO!!
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#220 6 months ago

On the bright side, dimples no longer rate as any concern at all. Nice way to make us forget about those, hahahaha.

#321 6 months ago
Quoted from libtech:

I wonder what percentage of Stern playfields are affected

I've got a Metallica and an AC/DC Luci VE that I bought NIB last year. The Luci VE has the blistering issue, the Metallica doesn't, so my experience says 50% of recently produced pins, LOL. It might be higher.

#410 5 months ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Has it been determined if the art "ripples" along with the clear?

Yes, that's how it worked in the blistering on my Luci VE. The art sticks to the clear, not the wood. It seems that with every playfield you see with this blisterinig issue, the chip of clear and art comes up bonded together and you have nice pristine wood underneath there that's so clean you couldn't tell it ever had art applied to it.

#412 5 months ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

which certainly shows the outstanding quality of our clear coat. Just please don't hit pause.


Stern response: "It's not a wide spread problem".

#478 5 months ago
Quoted from Psw757:

He didn’t say there are no issues just that it isn’t widespread correct?

Of course he is going to down play it a bit on a podcast.

Actions are louder than words, and they are replacing Beatles and Guardians pf’s from what I’ve read.

I'm looking forward to Stern sending me a bag of sand which I'll be advised to pound, as my Luci VE (which I bought about 14 months ago) didn't have the issue show up immediately, and it has it now, well out of any warranty. Well.. maybe they'll be some assorted washers in that bag of sand.

#504 5 months ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

Add Munters LE to the list
Checked my pictures when I unboxed and no damage, can't be enough "cure time" as spent 2 months getting shipped here, less than 300 plays.

Hey, some Kitty ghosting too. Sorry.

#562 5 months ago
Quoted from C_Presley:

t’s definitely possible there’s nothing that can be done as far as replacing the Playfield but to give the head in sand response of that it’s a “common thing” kick rocks. Is not what I would want to hear from a distributor.

I'd think that the distributor and Stern would at least get together and offer the guy one month of "Stern Insider" at no cost and maybe a Stern t-shirt.

#624 5 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

wrinkling... not pooling... the topcoat isn't flowing downhill to your posts people :p

I think the right term is "blistering". Sounds nasty. That's because it is.

1 week later
#1207 5 months ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Next Stern cost cutting will come from having no art on the PF whatsoever and having a Hard Top type overlay installed. Wait and see.

With no possibility of ghosting, dimpling, or this clear coat blistering/pooling/chipping shite, sign me up for that option!

#1251 5 months ago
Quoted from C_Presley:

Called my distributor yesterday when he wanted final payment for jp2 LE. I asked him his position and what he’s heard. Stern is STILL saying 7 or 8 documented cases.....

My distributor told me the opposite on Monday, and said that Stern was flooded with cases. Hmmmm... odd.

#1253 5 months ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Sounds like yours is telling the truth.

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#1256 5 months ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Like my new avatar

I dig it. It's an encapsulation of the 2018 and onward NIB experience in simple pictorial form.

#1319 5 months ago
Quoted from BOBCADE:

Ya that's mylar bubbling. The newer builds Stern put a cliffy like piece around the orbit.

I think some people were recently posting that they've contacted Stern and been sent that cliffy like piece as their mylar also took a beating in that area. I don't know if they had to pay for it or were sent it for free, you might want to check with Stern and ask them about availability.

#1451 5 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

It would be interesting to examine some of the affected playfields every five years or so to see if there are differences long term.

I agree, but not only in post areas. Some of the affected playfields (like my AC/DC Luci VE) dimpled like crazy, with some pretty deep dimples like in my playfield's case. If the art couldn't adhere to the playfield under the posts, what's going on at the bottom of a deep dimple? Seems like the art would stick to the clearcoat and pull away from the wood at the bottom of the dimple in some cases. That could get ugly down the road.

#1472 5 months ago

We know that Stern has removed the art under posts on newly built Jurassic Parks, but does anybody know if they've also done this in areas under ball guides?

We've seen the art and clear blistering/bunching/pooling/chipping under ball guides as well as posts, so I'm just wondering if they addressed the ball guide issue. My AC/DC Luci VE has blistering under a few posts as well as 2 ball guides (that I can see), so I'd like to know if they've tried to correct the issue with both posts and guides.

#1589 5 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

what is wrong with MUN and Maiden?

Let's play a guessing game before Talon2000 tells us. I'm guessing node boards.

#1593 5 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am going with one of the following
Flipper coil stops imploded
Ramp optos on Maiden
Munster mini pf issues
pulling apart to add washers for pf post issues
node board issues
gi bulb shorting issues

Could be any, could be all.

#1603 5 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Wait for a Deeproot... Jesus.
Nothing says costumer respect and quality construction like that company that doesn't exist.

Waiting with bated breath for the "5 Days of Deeproot" to start any time now..... any time.....

#1624 5 months ago
Quoted from ercvacation:

I was told by Stern that the issues aren't widespread

I don't know about everyone else, but I hate being lied to and treated like a f*cking idiot. But hey, whatever works for Stern and their podcast slappies.

#1640 5 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

When Chipotle had issues with theirs, they sent out coupons for a free burrito. You know I took them up on that!

Anxiously awaiting my coupon for a free Stern pinball machine.

#1641 5 months ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Give it a few hundred plays and check around the rail the loops leading to the back ramp.

Better yet, disassemble it and immediately and put thin washers under all ball guides (unless Stern took the initiative to do it by now).

#1822 5 months ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

What exactly has Stern done that could be seen as “sweeping this under the rug”?

It's not what they've done, it's what they have NOT done, which is not personally calling us at home, knocking on our front doors, or sending us dear Mr/Mrs pinball owner letters, saying "We regret to inform you...."

I'm kinda joking

#1917 5 months ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

They did update manuals to saying ghosting is normal though

That does equal a public statement, doesn't it? I suspect a manual update that says something to the effect that pooling, blistering, and clear and art chipping off and collecting in the bottom of your cabinet in particulate small enough to cut into lines on a mirror and snort like cocaine is also normal.

#1968 4 months ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

the edge of the wall was pressing against the playfield where there was artwork underneath. The area exposed to the pressure displaced the clear coat causing it to raise (pool) along the edges of the side wall just as it did with earlier pros in the area around posts and washers that had artwork underneath.

That may illustrate that Stern will probably have to remove artwork under ANYTHING that mounts to the playfield. Ughhh...

#2028 4 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

How would a bottle of clear coat correct pooling? Wouldn't it do the exact opposite?

Yeah, it's not gonna do jack sh*t. There's air pockets under the art in each one of those "pools", so they're really blisters. Eventually one, more, or all, are going to fracture and the art will pop off along with the clear and then you'll see the wood. That's what happened on my Luci VE, along with everyone else who has wood showing around a post. Are you supposed to drizzle that clear in the chip to seal it down??? I'm curious about what whoever gave you that clear, be it Stern or your distributor, intend for you to do with it?

I locked down the rest of my worst chipped blister with water thin Super Glue, then proceeded to touch up the missing art with acrylic paint, THEN I put clear over the touch-up and polished it. That was a real hoot to do on a 1 year old game, seeing that I have 19 Williams/Bally machines ranging from 22 to 27 years old, and all the art around every single post is fine on those, but hey.. I guess this is progress.

#2033 4 months ago
Quoted from J85M:

I know we have seen art lifting at posts due to pressure supposedly bunching the art but is there any guarantee repeated drops say out of ramps or the crypt kicker in the new Elvira pounding the same area of the playfield won’t start to cause the same problems just over a longer period of time?

If downward (and inward) pressure from posts causes the issues we're seeing with pooling/blistering or whatever you want to call it, it makes you wonder what downward pressure from pinballs from the pop bumper rings are going to do to these playfields. Luckily in the pop bumper pits are factory mylared, at least on my Luci VE, but it makes you wonder what's going on under that mylar.

#2041 4 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

Fuck this shit.

Really. What the honest f*ck? Stern's digital printing has all the quality of a cheap overlay.

#2043 4 months ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

That's me. I also found three bubbles/blisters. But peeling paint that is right in front of my face? That's kind of hard to be okay with.

Ugh... sorry Hawkmoon.

#2098 4 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

What say you, Pinsiders? Blasphemy? Or better tech?

Sign me up! I don't know why Stern and JJP didn't start making playfields with this as a top layer years ago. Ghosting, dimpling, pooling/blistering, etc., would all be a thing of the past.

#2184 4 months ago
Quoted from T7:

Have you waxed your game? The pics by the lane guide don't look like other issues - kind of looks like it could be dried wax???

The missing chip of paint from the bare wood area that you suspect might be wax can clearly be seen floating around in the 2nd pic down, and is laying on top of the crane in the 5th pic down.

#2207 4 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

I can’t come up with any industry that has tried to paint graphics on wood. Nope.

Well, there's skateboards.

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1 week later
#2605 4 months ago

Is this a Pro (presumably with art around the posts)? What is the build date?

#2615 4 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Perhaps a similar warning about washing their t-shirts is in order?

Have you checked with Kruzman? He once fixed a shirt for me that looked a little worse than that.

3 weeks later
#2913 3 months ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I can’t believe these people rushing to buy nib latest games.

Being a pinball addict is a rough gig. I've been clean for 2 months now, but man, I'm considering going to a local arcade this weekend for a fix.

2 months later
#4356 27 days ago
Quoted from silen7ce:

Just picked up a new maiden yesterday and day 1 had quarter inch piece of clear and art chip off by the newton ball...on top of that lower left flipper is sticking up :/ will be calling Stern monday.

What's the build date?

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