They're probably just figuring out some nice wording to put in the manual/warranty right below the "Ghosting of inserts is considered a normal byproduct of playfield production and is not covered by warranty" line, that says something to the effect of "Pooling of the clearcoat around playfield posts and any subsequent chipping of clearcoat and loss of playfield art, is considered a normal byproduct of playfield production and is not covered by warranty".

You're welcome for the idea Stern and JJP, just make sure you change my wording so it doesn't look like you directly lifted this glorious idea from me. Just send me a t-shirt or something as a way of saying thanks.

One easy step closer to having a desirable white wood model of all the popular new games.

I'll send your credentials to the House of Detention.

Crap.. just noticed my Luci VE has wrinkling and a chunk of art missing from behind the right lower sling post. Guess I'll be disassembling this and trying to flatten it, put some water thin Super Glue in there to lock it down and then touch it up. Build date March 8th, 2018. Playfield is stamped with a small "CS" and a larger "VW-N" and dated 2-28 if that means anything.
20190823_190955 (resized).jpg

Right! Nothing to see here fellas, lol. It's HUO!!
20190823_192514 (resized).jpg

On the bright side, dimples no longer rate as any concern at all. Nice way to make us forget about those, hahahaha.

I've got a Metallica and an AC/DC Luci VE that I bought NIB last year. The Luci VE has the blistering issue, the Metallica doesn't, so my experience says 50% of recently produced pins, LOL. It might be higher.

Yes, that's how it worked in the blistering on my Luci VE. The art sticks to the clear, not the wood. It seems that with every playfield you see with this blisterinig issue, the chip of clear and art comes up bonded together and you have nice pristine wood underneath there that's so clean you couldn't tell it ever had art applied to it.

Oops.

Stern response: "It's not a wide spread problem".

I'm looking forward to Stern sending me a bag of sand which I'll be advised to pound, as my Luci VE (which I bought about 14 months ago) didn't have the issue show up immediately, and it has it now, well out of any warranty. Well.. maybe they'll be some assorted washers in that bag of sand.

Hey, some Kitty ghosting too. Sorry.

I'd think that the distributor and Stern would at least get together and offer the guy one month of "Stern Insider" at no cost and maybe a Stern t-shirt.

I think the right term is "blistering". Sounds nasty. That's because it is.

With no possibility of ghosting, dimpling, or this clear coat blistering/pooling/chipping shite, sign me up for that option!

My distributor told me the opposite on Monday, and said that Stern was flooded with cases. Hmmmm... odd.

I dig it. It's an encapsulation of the 2018 and onward NIB experience in simple pictorial form.

I think some people were recently posting that they've contacted Stern and been sent that cliffy like piece as their mylar also took a beating in that area. I don't know if they had to pay for it or were sent it for free, you might want to check with Stern and ask them about availability.

I agree, but not only in post areas. Some of the affected playfields (like my AC/DC Luci VE) dimpled like crazy, with some pretty deep dimples like in my playfield's case. If the art couldn't adhere to the playfield under the posts, what's going on at the bottom of a deep dimple? Seems like the art would stick to the clearcoat and pull away from the wood at the bottom of the dimple in some cases. That could get ugly down the road.

We know that Stern has removed the art under posts on newly built Jurassic Parks, but does anybody know if they've also done this in areas under ball guides?

We've seen the art and clear blistering/bunching/pooling/chipping under ball guides as well as posts, so I'm just wondering if they addressed the ball guide issue. My AC/DC Luci VE has blistering under a few posts as well as 2 ball guides (that I can see), so I'd like to know if they've tried to correct the issue with both posts and guides.

Let's play a guessing game before Talon2000 tells us. I'm guessing node boards.

Could be any, could be all.

Waiting with bated breath for the "5 Days of Deeproot" to start any time now..... any time.....

I don't know about everyone else, but I hate being lied to and treated like a f*cking idiot. But hey, whatever works for Stern and their podcast slappies.

Anxiously awaiting my coupon for a free Stern pinball machine.

Better yet, disassemble it and immediately and put thin washers under all ball guides (unless Stern took the initiative to do it by now).

It's not what they've done, it's what they have NOT done, which is not personally calling us at home, knocking on our front doors, or sending us dear Mr/Mrs pinball owner letters, saying "We regret to inform you...."

I'm kinda joking

That does equal a public statement, doesn't it? I suspect a manual update that says something to the effect that pooling, blistering, and clear and art chipping off and collecting in the bottom of your cabinet in particulate small enough to cut into lines on a mirror and snort like cocaine is also normal.

That may illustrate that Stern will probably have to remove artwork under ANYTHING that mounts to the playfield. Ughhh...

Yeah, it's not gonna do jack sh*t. There's air pockets under the art in each one of those "pools", so they're really blisters. Eventually one, more, or all, are going to fracture and the art will pop off along with the clear and then you'll see the wood. That's what happened on my Luci VE, along with everyone else who has wood showing around a post. Are you supposed to drizzle that clear in the chip to seal it down??? I'm curious about what whoever gave you that clear, be it Stern or your distributor, intend for you to do with it?

I locked down the rest of my worst chipped blister with water thin Super Glue, then proceeded to touch up the missing art with acrylic paint, THEN I put clear over the touch-up and polished it. That was a real hoot to do on a 1 year old game, seeing that I have 19 Williams/Bally machines ranging from 22 to 27 years old, and all the art around every single post is fine on those, but hey.. I guess this is progress.

If downward (and inward) pressure from posts causes the issues we're seeing with pooling/blistering or whatever you want to call it, it makes you wonder what downward pressure from pinballs from the pop bumper rings are going to do to these playfields. Luckily in the pop bumper pits are factory mylared, at least on my Luci VE, but it makes you wonder what's going on under that mylar.

Really. What the honest f*ck? Stern's digital printing has all the quality of a cheap overlay.

Ugh... sorry Hawkmoon.

Sign me up! I don't know why Stern and JJP didn't start making playfields with this as a top layer years ago. Ghosting, dimpling, pooling/blistering, etc., would all be a thing of the past.

The missing chip of paint from the bare wood area that you suspect might be wax can clearly be seen floating around in the 2nd pic down, and is laying on top of the crane in the 5th pic down.

Well, there's skateboards.

jim (resized).jpg

Is this a Pro (presumably with art around the posts)? What is the build date?

Have you checked with Kruzman? He once fixed a shirt for me that looked a little worse than that.

Being a pinball addict is a rough gig. I've been clean for 2 months now, but man, I'm considering going to a local arcade this weekend for a fix.

What's the build date?

A drawback to going with thinner clear (in an apparent effort to combat blistering/pooling) is that any wood grain on the playfield will be much more visible in reflections on the surface of the thinner clear. I think we're all going to see this from here on out, at least with Sterns. Some buyers may get lucky and get a nice piece of wood with minimal grain on their playfields, but some may not.

I think as some have said, storage conditions such as excessive moisture may play a part after production. However, I inspected a BM66 recently which was made in April of 2019, and the playfield on that had thinner clear with minor grain noticeable on it, except for one raised grain in the middle of the playfield which was worse (taller) than the others. I wondered if this was due to storage moisture, but I could tell after further inspection that it was manufactured like that, as during the art printing process, this raised grain slightly distorted the art and picked up a little more ink than the rest of the playfield, making the raised grain a little darker due to the increased level of ink it picked up.

From here on out, if you really care about visible grain, it's obviously best to inspect a machine before you buy, but in order to that you're going to be looking for HUO or other out of box options, and if most of us do that and avoid NIB, there's gonna be less HOU and out of the box games to inspect. Kind of a catch 22.

Man, you should have started at $300 for the upgrade. Stern employees take note of these ideas

Hey, nobody brags about how hunnnngh they are on these forums buddy. You'll get moderated.

I'm just joking with you. I thought it was funny.

I think this is the (ugh, hate to say it) "new normal". Both my SW Comic Premium and BM66 Premium made within the last 14 months are like this. I just figured what the hell, I'll play these and dimple the hell out of them and if I like them enough to keep them for years, I may tear down the play fields and send them off to Kruzman for a quality clear coat after I've compressed the top level of play field veneer with millions of ball strikes/dimples. I'm no stranger to play field swaps though.

It almost looks like someone installed too long of screws from the backside and the screw tips almost popped through the top layer. Do any of these spots line up with screw holes on the backside? Just curious.

Stern really needs to put small washers under the posts that secure the lane guides in order to space the lane guides slightly off the playfield surface to prevent the blistering (pooling) pictured. But they won't.

No.

Sadly, it is normal now.

FYI: I used the little iron to remove the blisters around the sling posts on my BM66. I wanted to see if the fix would be permanent if I didn't put mylar rings down. Nope, the blistering came back. I guess you really need to put down mylar or lock the blistering area down with something like water thin superglue.

Did you use mylar in every case?

I guess I know what I need to do. Thanks!

This is the kit on Amazon. You can get it from multiple places at multiple prices. https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-81781-Ultra-Leather-Repair/dp/B0007TQWK6/ref=asc_df_B0007TQWK6/

Or any potential buyer is gonna use that as a major bargaining chip* to beat you down on price, so money lost at a minimum.

*See what I did there?

When they do Who-Dey, you call me. I'll give you $200 more. You're within easy driving distance of me.

But man, is it beautiful Ron. The NOS Dr. Who playfield you did for me a few years ago is still gorgeous. Keep up the great work!

Hmmmm... just comes up "Ignored user comment" for me. Life is good.

Yes, it's happened to some BM66 Catwoman Editions owners, as well as IMDN* owners. I've seen pictures.

*Corrected. I originally wrote "IM".

Yeah, I meant Iron Maiden. I guess that's IMDN right?

I think that chip in front of the saucer is simply the spot the saucer was attached to the sprue from the molding operation, think about opening a model car box and seeing all the plastic parts attached to each other from the mold, the piece that attaches all the parts together is the sprue. If you don't carefully cut the parts from the sprue, it can leave a mark like that when you break the part off. I think you can simply loosen and spin the saucer around to hide that mark.

The mark on the playfield by the 3 bank drop target. Ugh.. you can't hide that so easily, but it's small. Unfortunately, I'd be very disappointed in that as that's near a focal point of the playfield that I always look to hit with a super skill shot, so I'd be looking at that spot multiple times a game and it would bug me. I'd want them to send me a new populated playfield, and I don't know how much trouble that would be to request and receive. I just know it seems to be difficult to get a replacement playfield through Stern, and I don't think CGC coughed up new playfields to MMR owners with the light/transparent text on inserts, they just supplied a diffuser kit to go under the inserts. I think you might be out of luck on the blemish. It'll be interesting to hear our fellow pinheads viewpoints on this.

Sorry to hear about your Wonka. You need to read the thread by Yelobird at the link below. His repair method involving the little vinyl repair iron really does work, I tried it myself on a Batman 66. I wish you luck. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-playfield-post-repair-and-chip-proofing-how-to-all-brands

Yeah, on my brand new (zero balls played) Iron Maiden which has a manufacturing date of Sept 30th 2020, there's a few spots where over-tightened guide rails blistered/pooled the art just like that AIQ. They needed to cut the art back around guides just like they did posts. Are you listening Stern???

What are people doing to stop this around guides? You could put a small washer under the mounting points, but if the washer extends into the playfield art, it seems it will just blister/pool around that washer.

I've recently done it using Yelobird's vinyl repair iron method to flatten the damaged area out. You'll still have a depression where the rail originally sat, but when you reinstall the rail, it should cover that. I'm going to experiment with putting some small fiber washers under the offending attachment points tonight to see if I can elevate the rail slightly to keep it from digging into the art/clear again. I might have to elevate the entire rail.. I don't know, as I'm in the middle of the project.

Bummer. I wonder why JJP didn't trim the art back away from those posts like Stern did?

And what do you do when that doesn't help?

But (resized).jpg

Yeah, I know right? It's not only tension from the rubbers and action from ball strikes that causes the blistering/pooling. Sometimes it appears to be just old fashioned downward force that causes the digitally printed artwork and gooey clearcoat to squeeze out in interesting and unexpected directions.

It is insane. It's like they had a solution all along. LOL

Yeah, it's not exactly elegant, but probably better than the current situation.

You are correct, but until Stern removes the art from underneath the spade bolt portions of the ball guides (like they did on the posts), we're on our own.

1/4" I.D. x 3/8" O.D. x .032" thick worked great on my Iron Maiden and Batman 66. The #10 I.D. x 3/8" O.D. x .032" thick also worked when I ran out of the 1/4" I.D. size, but they were a little tighter on the spade bolts that secure the ball guides.

Home Depot. They were in the fastener aisle in a drawer of special washers.
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Hardware/Fiber-Washer/N-5yc1vZc21mZ1z0ztch

The art is pulled back away from the posts on my SW Comic playfield built in Oct 30th, 2019, and also on my Iron Maiden built in September 2020 (early Iron Maidens weren't). Based on this, I think they might have modified the recent and upcoming SW art. It would be crazy not to.

20201201_173324 (resized).jpg

Hmmmmm... at first thought I don't like it, but after thinking about it further, it seems like it would be more compressed/tightly packed than traditional ply lumber, making it more resistant to dimpling. Has anyone looked at how the home pins with MDF playfields hold up to dimpling?

I laughed. I shouldn't have laughed, but I laughed.

4 out of 5 NIB Sterns in the last 2.75 years. Why do I keep buying them? I have the knowledge and skill to fix them, and I want to play them. I find them quite fun. I'm disappointed in the playfield quality though.

I like Ballbaron.com

I had to iron some pooled clear flat from around some ball guides on my Iron Maiden Premium (produced September 10th 2020), and then I spaced the ball guides up with some small washers so they wouldn't dig in again. Other than that, all the posts have been fine. Great game in any form, so worth the effort IMO.

Just an FYI on this ghosting in the black key line areas. I've noticed it on my new TMNT Pro and IMDN in a few spots. You can go under the insert and inject some water thin super glue between the insert and the routed pocket in the playfield wood with a syringe, and a lot of times the water thin super glue wicks into the ghosted area and makes the ghosting disappear. YMMV. Why this happens, I dunno. Is stern using some type of soft glue to bond inserts into the routed pockets allowing for some movement?

Here's another thing that might be a decent sign: Even though this ghosting appears in the black key line area, it may be quite stable, and it might not extend into the colored area of the insert very often. Why do I say this? I recently bought a Stranger Things with 26,000+ plays. Yeah... 26,000+. Quite a few inserts have ghosting in the black key line areas like your photos, but not one of them has extended into the colored area of any insert (yet anyways). I still plan on going under the affected inserts and "locking them down" with the water thin super glue injection whether the ghosting is stable or not, just to be safe. Oh, and all the inserts in the Stranger Things playfield are still nice and level with the well dimpled and pounded flat playfield surface. None are floating up despite the ghosting being evidence that something there is moving, shifting, or "breathing" a little bit.

I wish Stern would change the gluing method to somehow prevent this, as the ghosting is evidence of some movement as noted above. Stronger glue, less flexible glue, whatever. Does anyone from Stern see this?

I'm not doubting you at all. I totally believe it. The only thing that concerns me is that from my memory, Stern has changed the warranty info for playfields to specifically mention ghosting, and I'm paraphrasing here as I can't remember exactly how they worded it, but how ghosting is normal to some degree due to the material difference of the wood and plastic inserts, and the fitment of the inserts to the playfield, so basically I do believe they've given themselves an out in the warranty, and they've put us on notice that this is now considered "normal", so I think we're all up poop creek with no paddle and will have to largely accept this and/or fix it however we can. I'd love to be wrong here.

It seems to wick in there and work judging from the results I've experienced (the ghosting appears to be stabilized as it doesn't spread any further). I guess the only way to really verify would be to cut through the clear and into the void from the topside and check to see if the super glue is truly cured in the previously ghosted areas. I won't be doing that test unless I have way too much to drink and for some reason think about this subject and get very brave and curious with an exacto knife or a Dremel. If that happens, I will report back with the results (and I'm sure much regret) when I'm sober.

They finally pulled the art away from the posts, so you probably won't.

Not on any of the runs of GNR to my knowledge.