Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:
Just wait for the big recession coming. 7k will be no longer expendable for most.
Quoted from zaphX:
Of course, we all do.
I'm just saying, some of the issues people are freaking about - coil stops, shooter springs - these are 60 second fixes easily done.
I think we could all do with assuming positive intent. The manufacturers of these games are not twisting their mustaches thinking up evil ways to piss off pinball buyers. The folks in this industry do it because they love pinball - it's obviously a very tricky business to be in (as evidenced by the high profile flameouts of others who have tried.)
Is what they should be doing is twisting mustaches figuring out how to fix the obvious cost cutting problems. Where does it end with Stern? Cracked cabs, piss poor playfields, unwinding coils and dimpling pf.
Is the market that tough that you have to have the newest on route?
Quoted from guitarded:
'27 plays in'
Yikes. I'd be boxing that up and sending it back.
Crazy they would let these things out with this kind of known production flaw.
No doubt it is a nightmare to deal with from the manufacturer's perspective, but it so going to be much worse because they keep shipping bad product out the door.
He needs it on route for his expansion.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:
Who the hell would even buy a washer version even on the second hand market?
So far it seems the new no art versions are doing ok.
Lol, washer version WV. Stern just doubled offerings overnight. Pro, Pro WV, Premium, Prem WV, LE, LE WV, SLE, SLE WV!!! Of course, you can opt for the no art, no washer version too!
Quoted from Chambahz:
No, of course not. I never said that anyone was a liar.
The discussion is whether there are enough issues to be called “widespread”.
I’ve posted enough on the subject as expressed my opinion.
You are all welcome to your own, and I respect that, truly.
I’m just not a fan if people labelling Stern when I don’t think they are intentionally deceiving anyone.
Of course, you are welcome to vote with your wallets and avoid future pins u til such time as you feel supported enough to purchase.
Dude, if its happening across multiple lines, that seems to indicate a problem, that is probably wide spread.
Quoted from Chambahz:
Well, if they said it's not widespread, they're not indicating it didn't happen. And again, given the number of pins that were produced, and given we don't know how many have experienced chipping (I'm going to assume that Stern isnt concerned about pooling since it 's only cosmetic), it could absolutely be considered to be "not widespread".
So no, "cover-up" is equally ridiculous and accusatory.
With respect to another posters comments, assuming that all of the pooling will lead to chipping in a few years and demanding playfields be replaced is also absolutely insane. What company is going to spend money, replacing things that aren't broken.
Pinside is nuts. It COULD be the most positive place to discuss pinball, where distributors like Stern COULD ask us for opinions and feedback.
Instead, (and I'm going to quote a friend here) it's a dumpster fire that Stern understandably wants no part of.
From my point of view, you can't accuse them of lying, using words like "cover up" and also expect them to spend thousands of dollars on issues that haven't proven to be a problem yet (pooling), and also criticize them for not announcing every issue they encounter.
Their choice to deal with defects on a case by case basis is the only thing that seems to make sense around here.
You are welcome to be critical of the way they operate, and refuse to spend your hard earned cash on anything they produce.
I on the other hand, am looking forward to picking up a Jurassic Park Premium as soon as possible.
I am currently "out of F(*&s to give" as they say. If you want to hate on Stern, have fun with your Wonkas.
Wrong. I just got informed that I have a recall on a 2010 vehicle I own. Has it been a problem, no. Should the manufacturer take care of it if they identify a problem. Ill let you answer that.
Quoted from Dr-pin:
Cosmetic only, so of a sudden playfield art and the shape of the playfield art is not important?
Seems strange to me almost zero pinball ads comes without pictures of the actual machine, why not just say that it's working.
Have you really thought your statement thru?
"Gary" has the same social media director as Robert from DR! So no.
Quoted from Chambahz:
Try to keep up, Utah.
There’s this thing, called “the environment”. And as of late, companies are no longer allowed to use super harsh chemicals because it’s bad for this “environment”. So things have changed.
Here is the thing: just because YOU deem it to be reasonable to expect something, doesn’t mean that the manufacturers are in agreement. In this case, they aren’t. See the warranty if you want evidence.
Your expectations of what constitutes acceptable for a new product from a pinball manufacturer is pretty unrealistic in today’s world.
I LOVE the fact that this has come down to some Pinsiders stating that they demand play field perfection. It makes the discussion so much easier to comprehend. One expectation is not equal to what’s being offered. In this case, the manufacturer has put their commitment in writing. Yours is known only to you and may be subject to change at anytime without notice.
I knew it lol. Pay a bunch, accept less! You literally just shamed pinsiders for demanding what we paid for, in the name of "the environment" and to expect more is then, anti-"the environment." So ridiculous man..
Quoted from Chambahz:
I'd love to know if ANYONE else got that sense from my post. It was not what I had intended, or meant to infer.
I accept your backwalk on "the environment" and how Stern should not be held liable, lest we ruin the environment by using chemicals that worked as intended just a few years ago.
Quoted from Chambahz:
No, it’s not. I’ve spent a truckload of money of numerous NiBs and resell for less each time, obviously.
Taking a further hit with a playfield issue would affect me directly.
So thanks for trying to discount my opinion.
The truth is, it’s not about any of our opinions. Warranties are very clear. What’s covered is very clear.
What you are expecting is not covered by warranty. Feelings aren’t relevant.
At the end of the day, I agree. If Stern wants to be respected and gain market share, they should produce a quality product. If they dont, we dont have to buy.
Stern has had one issue after another for years and maybe its coming to a head. JP2 and Elvira announced so close together? Tin foil hat on!
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:
Hopefully, this is a temp solution until your populated and corrected PF arrives? My friend has a JP Pro with that pooling issue and has been advised by his distributor that he will get a new populated PF shipped to him to swap out. His has no tearing like yours, that I saw.
At this point, if he didn't post that he gets some touch-up clearcoat AND a new PF is on the way, it should be assumed this is Sterns best offer, at this time.
Quoted from iceman44:
"A lawyer dies and goes to Heaven. "There must be some mistake," the lawyer argues. "I'm too young to die. I'm only 55." "Fifty-five?" says Saint Peter. "No, according to our calculations, you're 82." "How'd you get that?" the lawyer asks. Answers St. Peter, "We added up your time sheets."
Did you just admit that lawyers generally lie about billable hours, to the detriment of their clients. Alrighty then!
Quoted from GamerRick:
I also didn’t mean to imply Stern or JJ won’t fix the machines. It seems Stern does respond with populated playfields for serious cases, so I’d first recommend trying to work with your distributor. That’s what I did with my completely defunct Wonka LE. But if you do follow the requirements of the UCC, you would be able to sue if you wanted to if the manufacturer didn’t fix it. And to be technical, your UCC claim would be against your distributor, who is the party you actually contracted with. Then they would have to pursue a claim against the manufacturer to make them whole.
I dont understand why so many people are downvoting you lol Ice I can understand, since he is a lawyer, the rest just seem to be on his jock! Thanks for the information!!
Quoted from ercvacation:
My JP Premium with a build date of 10/22. Each of the 4 up posts had varying degrees of defects. All are rough. Left in lane has a chip in the clear and missing a bit of paint. The issues have been reported to Stern. Not happy with this.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
That sucks, when did you make the purchase??
Quoted from mnpinball:
That's a little harsh. I've been happy with the last few I have here. The cabinets are rock solid now, thicker and better quality as well as the added leg brackets and also now added angle metal brackets on the top inside corners under the lockbar. I've had nothing break on Deadpool, Maiden, Star Wars, Elvira or BKSoR.
Actually, the only Node board I've had go out was on Ghostbusters and that was early on first owning it within 90 days.
My HUO Metallica LE has been rock solid, so I cant complain much about Sterns(or games in general) that I dont own, but I am also hesitant to purchase another NIB until this has passed, and another hasn't set in.
Quoted from Manic:
Oh c'mon now... that's one of the very FEW complaints I've ever heard about AP's service. Every other company *wishes* they had such a stellar record.
Agreed, we don't hear much about AP having problems, but now that they have visited the thread, they need to reach out to the guy with the chipped art. Talk about making lemonade out of lemons, for the price of a PF.
Quoted from donkadelic:
I heard a tna had some issues 1 time so all issues in pinball are totally fine and acceptable from there on out.
It's completely ridiculous. Same with "why don't you just enjoy pinball".
If you're happy paying 6-15 thousand dollars for a machine that is defective out of the box....then by all means, spend your money. But i'm not.
I am totally fine with the usual amount of shallow hardly perceptible dimpling. I am not fine with 100s of giant craters all over the pf after 2 days of play. Maybe that's just me?
Its just you. Metal vs wood, what wins long term?
Quoted from o-din:
Apparently wood. Metal balls get rusty, scratched, and pitted, and need to be replaced way more often.
Found what might have been the original ball in an older game, and although the playfield was still perfectly smooth, the ball looked like hell.
Pics or it didnt happen!
Quoted from snaroff:
Easy answer: Buy NOB, where you can see & play what you are getting. Almost any title you’d like is available for sale on Pinside...and Pinsiders have profiles with ratings and reviews. For example, I have a BM66 for sale...the buyer would have confidence they are buying a game without pooling, chipping, or cratering (i.e. severe dimpling). The density of the wood “is what it is”...my game has very minor dimpling (which is normal). Folks annoyed by ANY dimpling apparently add PF protectors (which I’m not a fan of).
At this point, why buy NIB unless you are an operator or $$$. Even if you want the super duper limited 'Whatever' at least a few will be for sale aoon after launch. See how the pin turns out first.
Quoted from mbeardsley:
I really was just curious about how hard it is to do a playfield swap on a JJP machine.
You do bring up an interesting point though...if the pooling and such does not affect gameplay, and no one is going to do the swap, why was there so many complaints about needing a new playfield? People need something to fill their closets with or something?
No, so they could get what they paid for. I would hope you would hold an auto manufacturer to the same standard. These toys are not cheap.
Maybe Covid will force Gary to retire and Stern can hire someone with longterm vision.
Im not rich but was looking to add a DP to my MetLE. Im not taking a risk that (A) the PF is a cluster and (B) it wont take an act if god to get Stern to make it right. Secondary market, or possiby AP Hotwheels.
One thing is for sure Wacky Bracke or whatever her name is, just seems to be a downvoting machince. And lame since she cant seem to put into words what his obvious problems are.
Quoted from Mike_J:
No thanks. I’m not basing my next 10K pinball purchase based upon your word.
Why are you lying about JJP’s acknowledgement of the issue and it’s rectification?
LOL, the first person you never trust, is the one who says, you can trust me, let alone, fucking trust me hah
Quoted from shaub:
Yeah, its a tough line to walk. If no one buys their games, then there are none on the resale market and there's no way that buyer confidence is restored. On the other hand, if we keep buying, they lack the incentive to take the necessary steps to ensure that buyer confidence is restored. Meanwhile, all we want is fun machines with a high build quality.
I guess that's why true competition is absolutely essential, then maybe we could get what we want AND send the right message to those that need to hear it.
The thing is most, if not all people would, pay an extra 100 bucks if Stern used high quality wood/clear so we wouldnt have to worry about these issues. They wont, but have the balls to charge 600 for a POS topper. Doesnt make sense, but Gary is retiring soon and dgaf.
Quoted from 85vett:
I bought Maiden through the rewards program so I've king of felt guilty complaining about it since I already got a good discount on it NIB. That's probably not the right mentality but it's how I've lived with it. I got DP after Maiden and my DP has been quite a bit of a lemon. At 248 plays I had a 2 inch section worn to the wood and 2 other spots already into the primer. I'm also on my 4th CPU (fingers crossed this one is the last as I think the issue is resolved) as well as a couple other minor issues. I bought DP through my normal distributor and he's been helping the whole way. I don't really want to air to much dirty laundry with the game or the process to get where I'm at now so I'll leave it with he's doing his best to make things right and I'm confident we will get there.
Can a pin be lemon lawed.
Quoted from Darscot:
I think it's time for a new normal, I understand this is expected for the product they are selling. That is exactly why I am not buying. It's just Stern being Stern they won't do anything until they are on the verge of collapse. The least they could do is offer some kind of factory built in protector for an additional cost. Maybe acknowledge that they want to improve, tell us they are investigating new materials, technology, something, anything. It's just a complete crap shoot. I don't believe the issue is behind them at all, a couple machines down the line they are going to try some other cost reduction and start all over again.
Simple answer. Gary is getting ready to retire. He is doing the bare minimum to keep people happy, while padding retirement. People are still buying these games sight unseen, you know, cause dream theme. Why should anything change?
Quoted from chuckwurt:
The gameplay I’d say. Ball flies around the game differently. Deadpool’s face is always the worst part of Deadpool for dimples. Same for stranger things and the whole area in front of the drops. Jurassic park seems pretty uniform on where the dimples are concentrating.
Also always remember stern has multiple vendors for art and clear coat. So that creates variation as well I’m sure.
Thanks, that makes sense.
Quoted from koops:
How many are getting unpopulated vs populated? Locally i've heard about people with bad pf's but havn't heard if they got populated ones or if that is a thing of the past now.
What are people that are getting unpopulated going to do with them? Would even 1/2 of them swap the pf's?
To me it "seems" like its this :
unpopulated = shove under the machine until I sell it. Perhaps add it as a sweetener if they see the playfield condition or sell it later to make up for the difference.
populated = actually getting what I originally wanted and paid for.
Without a dog in the fight, i believe most have gotten unpopulated pfs, which would irk me to no end.
Well when you paid for 500 bucks, its easier to overlook issues. $8,000? kinda a different story, wouldnt you think?
Quoted from JY64:
$8000 is for fools
You do understand that you are in a Stern and JJP playfield thread, right? If you have a line on $500 Sterns or JJP's, I have $20,000 to buy as many as you can supply. If you can supply more than that, Ill get more cash. Ill even go up to $1000 for immaculate pins. PM me the details. Thanks.
Quoted from JY64:
There are some things that have gotten to the point of stupid example shooter laine protectors . Scoop protectors make sense shooter laine protectors are for the same people who go out of their way looking for dimples
If you can avoid damage, why not? BTW I am not a whiny dimple guy, I understand those, although I dont understand the craters we are seeing on sterns.
Quoted from nicoy3k:
Commercial products are not designed to be cosmetically perfect under a magnifying glass , they are made to last and take a beating from on field usage. A stern pro will do a hell of a lot better in a bar than a JPP or spooky pin in terms of downtime for maintenance/adjustments regardless of how “perfect” their playfields look.
Ahh, the whole "moving of the goal posts" to justify your stance. A timeless, yet futile maneuver.
Quoted from nicoy3k:
Yet there is just one guy complaining about it even though every stern pin with the thinner clear has this “issue”. Yes you can somewhat “feel” the insert when you pass your finger over them, but I think calling them raised is extreme. If it affected play people would be complaining... it doesn’t. The idea that it would affect “performance” and that someone playing would notice is laughable. The long term durability concern is also purely hypothetical...
Seriously, how do you not understand something that is raised and can feel(Although it shouldnt be) is going to affect gameplay and ball travel?
Quoted from JY64:
I think it is more the fact few people inspect a playfield to the point they will see a blemish like 2955 even 2908 most imperfections will never be seen by most people as they do not do an inch by inch inspection of the game
If you special ordered a car and it was delivered with bad paint/scratched/bubbling or dirt in it, would you accept it? I mean, it doesn't affect the performance of the car.
And don't give me the price excuse, we are talking about the principle of the matter.
Quoted from tyson171:
Did your play field chip near a post, or was it a random spot? Just curious if a cliffy carbon fiber washer could at least cover it up for you.
As far as the play field swap, that is the last thing in the world I would want, even though i'm also in the market for a project pin! I've built wide body cabinets from scratch before, but that's because i'm coming from the virtual world ). I have a good amount of learning to do regarding the mechanical side, but not looking for my first NIB stern to be a project, so I absolutely agree that i would be bitter, its not acceptable ect, but, life is full of this kind of stuff. Make the best of it, enjoy some pinball, and move on.
You can abandon every modern manufacturer and stick with the classics, as it seems to impact them all regarding play field issues, but pinball is in a resurgence, and it would be a shame to miss out! Just my early opinion, as most hobbies, i'm sure it will change as I progress through this one! Looking forward to the ride!
Its in a resurgence and Stern games a generally a blast, but why do they choose to shoot themselves in the foot?
Quoted from snaroff:
Can't believe I've made 101 posts to this long running, very redundant topic.
Today, I received a CPR repro PF for "Paragon" (after waiting 5 1/2 years after signing up for it.
Was a huge reminder of the artistry and quality produced by Stu and the CPR team. They didn't release it until it was "just right".
Too bad Stern is unwilling to spend an extra $50-$100 for better PF plywood (would solve many problems...warping, graining, cratering). I bet if they offered CPR quality plywood as a $200 upgrade on a Premium/LE, most people would opt-in just to make sure they didn't have to deal with all the BS in this topic!
Yep, this is why I dont understand Stern. Surely by now they understand a huge portion of the market want quality, not just something expendable and thrown on route. I would wager to say, and i should probably not say it, but give a buyer and option for an upgraded PF on a pin, and they would pay double Sterns cost, and lower warranty requirements. Seems so easy?
Quoted from seenev:
Offering an upgraded playfield option would be admitting that the current playfields have problems, and I don't think they want to do that.
While I didnt actually intend this. I dont think Stern would have to admit to anything. They could just say they are delivering a better pinball experience with better PF wood, while understanding that operators may not care about it, so they are giving us more choices!!!
It actually blows my mind that they wont use CPR pf and charge the customer $50 more. Stern seems like they just think one title at a time(I know they dont, but for how big they are in the pin world, you would think they would have a longer term vision). Maybe they are that close to bankruptcy?
Quoted from seenev:
I think you have to consider it in context of the pinball community. Playfield issues are a huge point of contention lately. Many people are unhappy, and then there are the people who try not to think about it or care about it and still buy games... But how many of those people will suddenly start caring when Stern tacitly admits that their playfields are cheap and defective, but that you can get a decent playfield for even more money? Admitting that they cheap out on the most important part of a machine and then trying to use that to extort even more money from customers would not go over well...
But then again, we're all stupid. They're doing topper dlc now, everyone is outraged, and they can't keep them in stock. For my part, I canceled accessory orders from Stern when I found my playfield was chipping. But most people just keep on buying. The funny thing is, when I canceled my order, they were like "have you talked to your distributor about your issues?" I have talked to my distributor now... More than 3 weeks ago, and I'm still waiting to hear what Stern's official response is. It's like they say "Oh... You have problems? Why didn't you tell us?" but you tell them and then they just ignore you.
This is why they just need to use CPR playfields and be done with it. If they have to tack on $50 to the price to cover the cost, so be it. Thats not admitting anything, thats just making production line changes. But they wont, cause Stern doesnt care.
Quoted from jawjaw:
So thin or chipping paint is what you call literally falling apart in the box? Things come lose in pinball. I've had posts and screws come lose on my old games as well as my new games. Anytime you move a pin on a truck something comes lose. This is nothing new. That's my point. You and others are being dramatic. I get the issues with the clear coat but that's not like the game is self destructing and parts spilling out of the box.
Cool, can you show us how to tighten down the thin clearcoat and chipping paint? I am aware hardware may not be fully tightened upon shipment and may need some work. Didnt realize there was a similar fix for paint...
Quoted from jawjaw:
People have shown fixes for pooling btw. I'm not saying these are not issues - just not equal to physical parts breaking apart inside the box or a few loose screws. My MET has a few ghosted inserts. Obviously there was some kind of issue with the clear but there is nothing wrong with the game itself. It has played perfect for years. When I sell it someday, I will probably lose a bit on the sale price because of it but not that much.
I think they are worse then mechanical. As you stated, its easier to tighten a nut, then fix chipped clearcoat.
Not trolling. Why is that knot or blemish in the shooter lane a problem, or is it just aesthetic? Is it smooth?
Quoted from pinballaddicted:
I feel your pain. That just sucks every piece of enthisiasm and joy out of NIB. Have you informed JJP and/or your distro? I am very interested to see how JJP handle this.
Every manufacturer has issues. How they handle their issues is what can make or break them. Please keep us updated.
Tell you to get inline behind, Wonka owners.
Quoted from Tranquilize:
Maybe both Stern and JJP will just include a playfield iron with each purchase. It takes about 2 hours, and the problem is fixed! $49.99 on its own.
Ive seen previously where quality playfields are available for about $50 more than what they are costing now. Not sure why they dont use those.
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:
Lol! Good theme just didn’t really do anything for me.
I hadnt watched the show, so I could not get into much to begin with. Im not really one to pick up on rules quickly, so its kinda unfair for me to really judge a game I have played about 5 or 6 times. But yea, it doesnt get my first set of quarters, thats for sure.
Quoted from Tranquilize:
Ad hominem fallacy. Just because you participate and benifit from capitalism, does not mean that it is beyond criticism. This is the equivalent of saying, "you drive a car, so you can't criticize the energy industry." Avoiding senseless divisive arguments makes the world a better place.
Are you saying there is a thriving pinball manufacturing base in Venezuala. Or even an arcade?
Didnt think so. Without capitalism, you wont have pinball machines, period. End of discussion.
Quoted from pinballaddicted:
Put some shooter lane Cliffys in before the shooter chips out worse. We have bought way more than 15 NIBs and do not expect a replacement playfield for a chipped shooter lane. Your friend is very lucky if this is the first shooter lane that has chipped.
Yea no way they are going to send a replacement for shooter lane chipping.
Quoted from zaphX:
Ok, but remember, you ASKED for my opinion. I don't want to hear any more bullshit attacks for sharing it.
My thoughts are the same as always with regard to defects.
Give the manufacturer (any manufacturer) a chance to make defects right.
You're going to get more response being reasonable with them offline than mounting pitchfork campaigns online.
And remember this stuff is supposed to be fun. If the angst outweighs the fun, why bother?
Then why does Stern insist on taking the fun out, when ignoring clear issues.
Quoted from zaphX:
I wonder...playfields do flex a bit. Is the left side rail mounted slightly higher than the left or something? Maybe it's a fixable issue?
Does Stern send out instructions to check this upon delivery, and that buyers should expect significant issues out of the box? Dont answer, we already know the answer.
So, are JJP and AP and Spooky games overbuilt, or are Sterns under built? I know when i play a pin from the former, and then the latter, the stern feels no where near as solid.
So are Stern pins underbuilt, or others over?? Does it matter?
Quoted from John_I:
Not to derail this thread, I will try to answer this question. The SPIKE system takes advantage of modern power supply technology to eliminate the old fashioned transformers, wiring and power supply boards found in older games (and some new games too) totaling about 50 pounds of useless weight all while increasing the reliability. Instead of having separate transformer taps for ac power to feed multiple separate power supplies to produce 5v, 12v, 20v, 50v and whatever other voltages are needed on the game, there is one simple power supply that takes in 120v a/c directly and produces 48volts DC. Each of the boards and node boards in the game uses that 48volts to produce whatever voltages they need on the board itself via a device called a dc-to-dc converter. This method is much more efficient, uses less power and therefore produces less heat. This eliminates a lot of wiring in the cabinet for the different voltages and thus eliminates a lot of failure points. This is the way electronics and control systems in general have gone, not just pinball machines.
There are a lot of benefits to a system like this including being able to use a commercial off the shelf power supply instead of a custom one. The SPIKE supplies are available at Digi-key for a little over $130. These are simple and reliable power supplies with only one problem: they have a one-speed fan that is very noisy when it comes on. Fortunately Stern chose a power supply with plenty of extra power, so it will run cool. It takes a long time to heat up, so the fan in the power supply doesn't come on for a very long time and when the thermostat finally does click the fan on (it only has one speed), it only stays on for a minute or so and shuts off again for a long while. This is direct proof that this power supply is not being run hard and will not fail early due to heat or being over driven. SPIKE has a 500 watt power supply and believe me this game never uses more than half of that.
Now compare my fact-based description of the power supply system and fan to the "expert opinion" in that video on the power supply and fan...
Need more? As stated above the only issue with the SPIKE 2 power supply is the noisy fan. Even though that fan barely runs because the game runs cool, it is still annoying as hell to people like me! For this reason there is an aftermarket cooling fan sold by Pinmonk which has sold many, many units over the years including to me. This product replaces the stock fan with a fan that is quieter and blows LESS air than the OEM fan. Even with a weaker fan, the fan hardly runs and the game still runs cool. See more description and actual factual research along with temperature readings here: https://pinmonk.com/collections/guardians-of-the-galaxy/products/spike-quiet-fan-plug-n-play-kit
Again, compare the above to the statements made by that blowhard about the SPIKE power supply. I could literally go point-by-point through this whole video, but I don't want to waste any more time on him. Honestly Youtube should take down that video.
Learned some here, but no, censorship sucks.
Quoted from jorant:
The time frame is bullshit. 18 months is insane. So for that I am super sorry.
I'm about to say something that will get me downvoted to hell, and believe me I'm not stern kiss ass, but.... I'm shocked by the number of people in this hobby that can't fix their own machines. I tell people that if you want to get into pinball, be prepared for something to break. And yes, playfield swaps are extensive, but not difficult if you take it one bite at a time. I'm just surprised how many people get a free 5, 6, 700 dollar playfield and aren't at least grateful for that. Or, they cry for one only not to install it and use it as bait when they sell their machine. Which tells me whatever your issue was, it wasnt that bad after all, huh? Not to change it?
Mine was shit. Unplayable. Not ghosting inserts or bubbling clear, but straight up unplayable trash with warping, leading to inescapable outlane drains.
So i'm replacing it. Happy to do so. Just seems odd how many won't or CAN'T do it.
Cars blow motors and transmissions go out within warranty as well, are you prepared to replace a motor or transmission if the manufacturer sent it to you? Hell, I'd be more comfortable doing that, then swapping pf. How many hours will it take to get a swapped pf working correctly, for a newbie? Why cant Stern just send out a populated pf, and expect the same in return? Why is Stern making the customer perform the swap, when in reality it should be Stern employees depopulating the pf and returning part to inventory.
And grateful they sorta stand behind a $8000 product. Stern loves you!
Quoted from smalltownguy2:
I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I have a blank playfied sitting in a box under my daughter's bed. My game is worth less because of a defective playfield, and the box under my daughter's bed does nothing to correct that.
So, before I opened my warranty claim, I had a game with a defective playfield. Now afterwards, nothing has changed. I've already been told that the spare blank field does nothing to add any value to the pin if I were to sell it. (confirmed by two prospective buyers who both walked away due to my clear coat issues).
I wouldn't buy your pin, or any pin, with an extra pf either.
In general, to accept anything less than a fully populated pf, installed by a Stern paid tech and being ok with it, is doing a disservice to your fellow pin buyers. Get off Stern JJP jock. This is NOT an acceptable solution.
Not directed at you BTW. Just nuts that people with issues think this is ok.
Quoted from Haymaker:
Well lemme know if you want to sell that worthless game to me at a fair price lol. That PF doesn't add a lot of value, because the work involved to get it into the game, but it does add something. Your game would be worth far more if you did the work, so obviously having the playfield does something.
Why? I buyer will just find a problem free example.
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:
Curious how Led Zep games are so far. Any issues?
This is a token/accountant gesture and stern know's it.
They've done the sums and seen how much it is going to cost to fix that issue and are closing the books on your case.
Any physical replacements or service that they have to do will reduce profit margin on the machine by a non trivial amount.
What they should be doing is taking the entire machine back and give you a new one (has this ever happened?).
With the old one they could recover parts and remake with a new playfield and mark it as refurbished like they do in other industries. It's not dishonest and the new customer knows what they are getting at a reduced price.
Hell, don't even do anything to it and mark it down with the known quality issues. Plenty of route operators might take a cheap version like this!
All of this makes me SUPER wary of ordering something new. I discussed this with my local distributor after I had a deposit in for a jple and the best I could get was a "we'll look after you". When asked how this sort of thing would be resolved it was "it depends on stern", so I cancelled my order. and got a refund. As much as the distributor wants to fight for me I could see that it wouldnt help.
Great insight, which just proves Stern and JJP do not care. This has been the same insight since day one.
Quoted from Phbooms:
Ive had a replacement populated playfield show up worse then the original and older date stamped so theres no guarantee that way either. Still better then being ignored by another company when i told them the art and clear completely came up the size of a quarter almost when i moved a star post to narrow the outlanes directly out of the box.
And you consider that a win?
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
It randomly went away like other playfield issues. When will it occur again? Who knows! That's the joy of spending $6k - $9k+ for a pinball machine from Stern or JJP in 2021, you have no idea what the playfield quality will be. Best bet is to buy a Stern LE (to avoid issues found on pros, Jurassic Park for example) and if buying a JJP wait 6 months to let the early issues be identified (first batch GNR's with chipping playfields).
By the way I played a GNR LE on location last week. Incredible game but the playfield was chipped at the sling posts, it's from the first batch of games shipped.
My buddies early GnR LE on route looks great. Just played a bunch of games a few days ago and its got some dimpling, which is expected. The ramp switch was out of its hole and the ball got hung up on the guitar head diverter though. Ramp switch easily fixed(had to pull glass). Not sure how many points I lost on the
2,300,000 score I ended up with though. I know it wasn't registering shots.
Amazing next level pin and considering an LE.
Quoted from Stef95:
I bought POTC with 350 part played and with chipping under a pole. After 300 games, a scaling occurred at the Tortuga hole. I bought the posts with mylar washers then a cliffy kit. Nothing can be seen anymore. It cost me 120 euros. I have played 1000 games since then and everything is OK. Personally, I do not find this dramatic. It's not provocation it's just my opinion.
Some people are more malleable then others, and conditioned to expect less.
Some are not, thus this thread...
Quoted from pinballaddicted:
These polls are BS. People need to be honest and while most are, something like this brings out the worst in the community. People that do not own a game vote, people that are pissed at JJP get their friends to vote that their game is shit and they are not even in the hobby.
Yes, relaying a problem someone has, is a problem lol. Do you know who voted that doesnt have a JJP game? If so, call them out.
Quoted from paulbaptise:
My situation was probably easier due to my proximity. Im just a few hours away so brought my machine back and was refunded.
Did you throw it through the window? https://www.ispot.tv/ad/7GLt/discount-tire-little-old-lady
Quoted from cooked71:
Whatever floats your boat. Personally prefer not to wait 6 months for a couple of washers to be installed then another 6 months for delivery. It’s a 5 minute fix.
So, let Stern do it, or replace damaged playfields if they wont.
Its a 1second job if done at the factory, like they should. Buy you and others let them get away with it, so they won't
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