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I just ordered my first pin, NIB in box Stern AIQ and I think I am hoping I do not run into any big issues, I am kind of OCD with my stuff but a part of me expects a playfield to get scuffed?
With that said, I see that some people got their pf replaced (as per this thread) and I was wondering what is the policy about this? I am in Canada.
Quoted from liftmagnet:I apologize that you have seemingly confused me with someone who actually cares about how you or anyone else spends their money. I personally have no horse in this race, I am completely priced out of the new game market as well as most of the used market. Consider me as an outside observer who sees this thread in the same kind of light as a car crash with a kind of morbid curiosity. So if anyone is of a income tax bracket that they can go blow $8k-$10k on a whim in Vegas or on the Stern lottery more power to them; just don't get all uppity when some of us point out the seemingly masochistic relationship many on here have with Stern.
so, you do not own any machines but spend time in a pinball forum? I think you should aim at getting one and maybe you'll change your mind.
Quoted from Max_Badazz:interesting (that level is not warped FYI)[quoted image]
looks like this piece of plywood is cupped? have you contacted Stern and your distributor about this?
Quoted from Yelobird:Confusing. The distributor Works for the OEM. Instead of letting them do what they Earned your business to do you would prefer to go on a personal crusade to hate all pinball sales? Seems odd to me. When I have issues with my car I don't feel sorry bringing my issues to the dealer?? Good luck with your mission whatever that is....
my thoughts as well... or is the dealer selling these at cost for no profits??? that is a rhetorical question.
for comparison, you guys can watch this vid of a 90s game.... lots of dimples and it is totally fine:
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:I've posted this before, but it's worth of a re-post. It's actually much better than a table in the corner.....
Skip to the 11 minute mark.
Guy Giving Tour: "Yeah, we have this awesome light table to make sure we can spot ghosting insert issues." "Can we show them how it works?"
Guy Doing QC: "Uh, this thing is supposed to be plugged in?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=UR2WflOczwU&app=desktop
I think he was just caught of guard and by the looks of his face he was not pleased with the interaction... just having a bad day.
I prefer seeing this than a rehearsed fake tour like you see most of the time.
I don't see anything wrong... 
Maybe you were expecting somebody wearing goggles while looking down a microscope with a bunch of fake scientist in the background analyzing the images / looking for ghosting.... lol
question,
I am just waiting for my new Avengers IQ Premium to arrive and already bought a playfield protector... it costs a little fortune and bought it because I was not sure... but I am not sure I want it, first, it is just another piece of something that seats on top of the playfield and second...not sure I want to disassemble half the game to put it in (added risk of breaking something during installation)....
so....
all that to ask.
What would you do with a brand new game? install pf protector or is it overkill... I dont think I mind dimples if they are evenly distributed lol
Quoted from crujones4life:Stern is using a different clear or technique for the clear recently. Several people have said they thought the clear coat was thinner on their recently built Sterns. It seems to have addressed the pooling.
thiner clear, is that a good thing?
Quoted from C0untDeM0net:I've got 2 2020 built machines from stern. My stranger things has some pooling around posts but nothing too bad. The clearcoat was soft though and with the demogorgon ramp I've got some major craters in the playfield. Looks like the moon.
My NOV 2020 built Guardians doesn't have any pooling at all but the ridges and ribbing are quite noticeable in pretty much any light. I'd rather have the minor pooling of my Stranger things than the ribbing.
[quoted image]
not sure what ribbing is, I do not know what I am looking at at the picture.
Can you show us photos of the PF on the Strangers Things? I am going to guess that the more games you put in the better, the craters will even out.
show us some photos
Quoted from vid1900:Cratering is when there are not yet enough dimples to level out the field, so the sparse pattern of deep dents looks amazingly tragic
This playfield is 25 years old, and still has not yet leveled out behind the flippers:
[quoted image]
ok, graining makes sense, it does not bother me at all. Planking is a different story and expected in an aged maybe not well maintained playfield.
As for the dimples... they bother me but hell the thing is meant to be played...
with that said, my 30 old Terminator 2 has unnoticeable dimples or the lighting in my basement is anti dimpling, lol...
Quoted from vid1900:The games themselves had anti dimpling lighting - some of them only had 13 GI lamps from the factory
that is true but my game has all LED and lots of playfield light added (it is quite bright), and the dimpling in quite minimal... my point being, it is a 30 year old game, the amount of plays it has are...unknown... so that should make a difference on what these look like.
Quoted from Yelobird:Ok while not funny, that is down right awful lol. While I guess this came from Stern like this (crazy) no chance the previous owner you bought it from stored it in a freezing garage or had the game in a crazy humid place? Just never seen anything like that.
In my experience plywood is very stable, so I am wondering what made it warp like that...
it looks like it got wet at one point and then it dried after the clear coat.
Quoted from Doctor6:Took many pics. But just rocked it out. Playfield is compete, just gotta put it in. This warped turd is going straight into the trash.
I would be interested in buying it off you. I would like to make wall art with it.
I will pay for shipping of course. Please send me a PM.
washer are everywhere in a 90s game, what is wrong with just using washer. Use a washer, play, enjoy your life... life is short. You will die and that Efffin machine will still be kicking around. Enjoy it. The game is forever but you are not. Play more.
Good night.
Quoted from rotordave:I’ve owned 100+ 90s games, I’ve never seen one with a washer on the playfield hiding damage/wear that shouldn’t have been there when the machine was new ....
Hey, I sorta agree with you, I don’t sweat the little things on my games, I have them to play them. Very few of my games are “trailer queens”.
But buying an expensive brand new item, and it having a faulty playfield and nobody wants to warranty it ... well, that’s not on.
Shouldn’t be happening.
rd
never mentioned to used it to hide wear. Washers are used regardless.
I agree with you on the rest.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:Was on location today, amazed at the dimples on LZ compared to old stern titles like iron man
I wish they could get the old Pf quality back
lol - please stop... get an iron man new in box, play 1800 balls the report back if you see dimples or not. Then report back in 3000 games.
Quoted from PinMonk:AIQ lane guides aren't digging in by antman? Or did you get a later run where Stern was installing washers from the factory to lift the guides up?
I find that Sterns only have issues on shorter ball guides, long ball guides have more posts and attachment points therefore they do not flex when the ball hit them.
Shorter ball guides have a little give, and because they are bolted down tightly, the added vibration when hit by the pinball makes the guide rub and scratch the clear coat.
in my 2 new sterns, have not had any major issues and if they exist, you can spot them in time if you pay attention and add a washer when/if needed.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:If you have not listened to the Gomez interview on Super Awesome podcast, he talks about the PF issues towards the end of the interview
yup, awesome interview. George is an awesome, cool guy. He talks a lot in that interview but I love how enthusiastic he is throughout.
I am with him on the whole PF dimples thing.
Also my experience with Sterns has been great.
Quoted from fooflighter:I haven't listened yet but read some on TWIP...was he talking about Haggis or was he talking about the flexible playfield sheets installed post delivery. Seems it was the latter as he was referring to raising bumper and sling heights, which would be accomodated already for on the Haggis pin
that is not the impression I got, not even close. To me it sounded honest and to the point. When you have scientific tests showing you the damage a metal ball does in wood, there is nothing else to argue or debate. It is like beating a dead horse.
I also work with wood and understand it well enough to know that what he is saying is true as well.
Quoted from smalltownguy2:This statement, right here, is why we will never see anything get better with playfields.
the clear coat and print from 30 years ago was not as shiny as the modern one, this also makes imperfections more noticeable. I honestly could not care less about dimpling. IT IS WOOD!!!!
Also, playfield protectors are horrible and let me tell you, I am very detail oriented with my games...
that looks horrible, I saw it yesterday when Kaneda posted it on FB.
JJP should be replacing all of these.
Quoted from Dr-pin:So
Gomez:
"those guys in Europe put the plastic on the playfields, which by the way I think is absolutely atrocious. We spend so much time trying to make a pinball machine feel the way it does and shoot the way it does. And then these guys come and add a sixteenth of an inch and everybody says “oh, it’s just a couple millimeters”…yeah I know, but the position of your drop target or your standup target or your ramp flap, whatever, relative to the – you didn’t move the target up, so the ball is hitting the target at a different place, at a different height…[and] on the plastic, the ball tends to slide as opposed to roll on certain shots. When it skips, forget about it…it is a wild ball. That is the issue with the polycarbonate solution."
What does he think clear-coat is?
clear coat is not 1/16" nor it is even close to be.
Quoted from Stef95:I have the impression that this thread of discussion is only present to denigrate JJP and to encourage people not to buy new pinball machines anymore. It's disappointing. The same ones who denigrated POTC for trivial details, who demanded a new plate not to even install it or sell it afterwards. This may be why JJP is no longer sending a spare tray. I ordered my GNR LE and if it happens with a little problem with the playing field I will survive. 90% of the people around me think. Thanks to JJP for innovating and for continuing to make great machines for us.
nope. they clearly have a problem and they failed their customers with it. This thread is not to denigrate anybody, is to keep them, if anything, accountable.
are there any actual news as to what JJP is going to do about the PF issues?
I see a lot of people complaining so the issue seems to be a thing... I am asking because I would like to own GNR, and would be so much more inclined if JJP was open to discussion about these problems but that does not seem to be the case...
All that to say, I personally can't support a company that does not stand behind their product, even if it seems to be the coolest game out there now...
Customer service is just as important for me...
I have had 3 new sterns in the last 4 months.
No pf issues of any kind with Stern. Other issues? Yes. All minor.
No agenda here. Stern QC is shit. My Elvira had 48v 50% disconnected, a bent ramp and other issues…
Quoted from screaminr:Well explain this .... oh don't bother when you said gnr had no flow , I knew new your opinion was irrelevant
[quoted image]
Oh man… these pf are going to be bare wood in 2k plays.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It would certainly eliminate/decrease the chance of seeing any pooling/chipping for a year.
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:I'm guessing I know the answer to this already, but I'll ask anyways: If you were to get a GnR, leave it in a box and not play it for a year, would that eliminate/decrease the chance of pooling/chipping? In other words, would it allow more time to cure and that would help?
Schrodinger's pinball machine !!!!
it is chipped, and, not chipped at the same time, you only see it chipped or not chipped once you take it out of the box... |
LOL
Quoted from Returner:Ghosting inserts and tiny white lines around them will happen on most playfield as the wood shrinks and expand over time. But it should not happen on brand new playfields, even Stern admitted this with the Ghostbusters and replaced all the affected playfields.
Sterns clearcoat process has changed a lot sinse this thread was started, it's becums thinner and thinner. Now it looks just like the first thin mist layer you put down before you fully clear. No one knows how this playfields will hold up in the long run yet.
I'll rather thake a JJP playfield with minor crackling/chipping around posts than Sterns ribbing, warping, concave or convex, just look at the plywood Stern is using compared the other manufacturers.
I do not believe you are right. I have had several Sterns in the past 24 months, some are perfect, some are not, some have very thick clears (which is not good really).
Unless an insert is protruding, or cracking, I really do not care... These machines are not pieces of art, they are to be enjoyed played and make money.
Do I want to have a perfect PF? sure, but it is not realistic as wood expands, and things happen. We are lucky modern machines no longer use incandescent flashers as those things would burn almost any insert and the heat these use to produce accelerated wear dramatically...
Ghosting today is nothing compared to what the issues back then were. Some PF are more problematic than other.
That said, clear coat thickness does not seem to be important and in fact I would say that it would promote issues when applied too thick.
Quoted from Bumper:And still I find machines with a thick coating from the early 90s that were routed till only a year ago that have (after a good polish) near perfect playfields, compared to barely played Led Zeppelin with ghosting and a cratered surface looking like the moon. I don't know what Stern is doing about it but it is not working.
I have own many 90s in the last few years including an indiana jones with 60.000 plays documented up until 1997.
If you believe those playfields didn't dimple you are incorrect. The dimple and chip like any other.
Clear coat back then was harder yes, nothing to do with pinball but different prohibitions to save the ozone layer blah blah, but also very cloudy and did not reflect light like today’s clear. Pf are way nicer now, clear is thicker and very transparent.
I also had up until not long ago, a NOS never used clearcoated williams pf. Clear was thiner than paper and it looked not bad, but not great either. Needed 100% another coat of clear.
Really, other than silkscreening there is really nothing to envy about old processes.
It is playfield not a mona lisa. Play it.
Quoted from smoothbore19:Here's my SW Premium from the latest run with about 50 plays. The chip is to the wood. Sterns respons is tobsend a clear touch up kit. I already put a dab a clear Gorrila glue over it. I'm guessing The stuff in the hole is clear that driped over and didn't adhere properly. I'll use Sterns stuff on that when it gets here.
[quoted image]
this is really not an issue sorry. Most likely because the clear was too thick there, it chipped off. It also happens on the out hole below the flippers. If you are still concerned after doing the repair below just add a cliffy (overkill).
If you lightly sand with 2000 grit and apply 1K clear (with a paint pen or clear nail polish even), let dry for 1 day, and it will be rock hard. Surely, it is annoying but this does not warrant a PF swap in my opinion.
Quoted from smoothbore19:I'm not overly bothered by it. I just don't want it to get worse. Other than the chip the other stuff was like that out of the box. Shit happens when there's a steel ball banging away on wood. Does cliffy make a protector for the drop targets on SW? I would do that.
He usually has a protector for all 3 drop banks, I am sure he has something for this one.
Quoted from screaminr:Besides the first batch of GNR , playfields have been great , no issues and the tiniest of dimpling .
Did they remove the art from under the posts
Quoted from the4horse:My Godzilla Premium has a similar dull spot where it looks as if someone in the factory has tried to fix a tiny defect by using something abrasive on a way larger area than they needed to. Hopefully it’ll buff right out!
I had a led zep prem like that.
Polish cream and my trusty D/A polisher made it look perfect in 3 min.
Quoted from ARTofAWD:Just recieved my NIB JP Prem made mid July and there is one area on the play field that looks very dull compared to the rest. Closer inspection it's like steel wool was rubbed all over the little dinosaur with millions of fine scratches. Very disappointing. In the picture you can see there is almost no marks around the reflection of a light on the right hand side, but swirl marks galore around the left. I'll contact Stern tomorrow to see what they tell me.
[quoted image]
Wet sand 2000 grit, then 3000.
Polish.
Sure it sucks you have to do this AND have the knowledge to fix it. It is a combo that it is sometimes not in everyones toolbox…
Very fixable, yet unfortunate considering the pricing.
Sterns are overpriced. Somebody has to pay Disney boy for his ideas.
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