(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

4 years ago


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  • Latest reply 67 days ago by PinMonk
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#7250 3 years ago
Quoted from Returner:

AIQ is chipping at ballguides the same way as DeadPool does, if Stern just had put a washer under the spadebolt it woulden't happen...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/continued-playfield-issues-with-jjp-and-stern/page/145#post-5963953

But those are 2 cents each in quantity. The Stern BOM could never survive such an extravagance.

2 months later
#7720 3 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

SPIKE has a 500 watt power supply and believe me this game never uses more than half of that.

Not true. Stern used to use 300W Meanwells in the Pros because they had lesser power requirements due to smaller coil count, etc, and even they would reset occasionally due to exceeding the power available. One reason Stern eventually ditched the 300W meanwell and put 500W ones in all machines.

So, yes, all Spike Prem/LE and occasionally some Pros definitely use more than half of 500W available.

1 month later
#7972 3 years ago
Quoted from Doctor6:

I'm really confused by the warping issue. That's certainly something we haven't cried about here, and yet it's popped up a few times super recently, now. :/

I feel like Stern has recently dropped to cheaper quality wood in their PF blank layers, specifically softer wood in the middle of the PF "sandwich" and that has caused the substantial increase in convex and concave playfield warping recently. Both LZ and AIQ recent runs have had quite a few warped (convex/concave) playfields I've heard about (and in some cases seen pictures of). More "invisible" cost cutting that became very visible with all the recent PF warping.

No inside information, just speculation based on how it went before when they quietly did this to the cabinet wood around the time of the KISS initial run - and that led to a large increase in split cabinet corners until Stern added back corner brackets.

#7979 3 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Ever hear of Haggis pinball?
Now that's looking at the whole issue with a new lense.
But the solution isn't to throw harmful chemical processes at the problem.

Wait, Haggis has invented a new method to produce polycarbonate playfields without harmful chemical processes? Do tell...

And manufacture/disposal aside, you have this gem:

"Studies have shown that at temperatures above 70 °C, and high humidity, polycarbonate will hydrolyze to Bis-phenol A (BPA)."

"BPA is a compound that is currently on the list of potential environmental hazardous chemicals. It is on the watch list of many countries, such as United States and Germany."

"BPA has been shown to play a role in the pathogenesis of several endocrine disorders including female and male infertility, precocious puberty, hormone dependent tumours such as breast and prostate cancer and several metabolic disorders including polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS). "

It is not uncommon for flipper coils to reach or exceed that 158F threshold on play over 45 minutes or so. So, yay for damaging chemicals leeching out of the playfield over time?

#7981 3 years ago
Quoted from Doctor6:

I'm sure your "pooping in your bed" analogy was devilishly clever in your head, but I haven't a clue what you're talking about.
These companies are changing things, and keep making changes... which is why we see cracking/dimpling/warping etc. So they are definitly doing something different and keep trying to do so to fix things. Also, deeproot is trying, but that is leaving an "orange peel" finish behind. So yeah, manufacturers are trying.

The aftermarket clearcoaters are able to do it well consistently, even now. But the base issue is cost and speed. The manufacturers want it fast and cheap, and that gives you the results they're shipping.

#7997 3 years ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Yes one is too many,but it was an early SE’s that had issues and then the correction was made by Mirco

Mirco doesn't make corrections. He makes excuses. LOOOOONG history of excuses for his work. This is likely not the end of PF issues as long as Mirco is in it.

I know JJP had a disastrous first go with Bader on original WoZ machines where big chunks of playfield art was coming off clean from the wood (pop bumper area, by the drop target, etc), but Spooky seems to be doing well with Bader now. They should give it another look. Couldn't be much worse than the ongoing pooling/chipping mess Mirco has been serving up for years, and Bader is right up the road, not halfway across the world.

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#8010 3 years ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

My story is i paid 9650 for a pinball machine, within 100 plays my playfield started to chip...

...Im not the only one this has happened too, there are at least 10 others having the same issue, a couple have also sold their games, the others are staying quiet for fear of exactly what has been happening to me...

Mirco is a disaster with these non-stop pooling, chipping playfields.

JJP really needs to get out of that abusive relationship and take another look at Bader. They seem to have gotten their act together with Spooky PFs with no issues I know of since TNA, which is a LOT longer than the time between seemingly non-stop Mirco issues.

#8015 3 years ago
Quoted from dts:

Fiber washer + metal washer = enjoy game and hope it works
[quoted image][quoted image]

Don't be surprised when a ball sneaks in under that sling rubber.

1 month later
#8036 3 years ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Spooky is using a great playfield manufacturer too.

Bader was a disaster initially for JJP. Chunks of WoZ playfield coming off on their original run ECLEs. They've apparently gotten their act together in the years since and are turning out a more reliable product for Spooky now.

#8037 3 years ago
Quoted from CashMoney:

I have 4,000 games played on my AIQ and there is no chipping, wrinkles or craters yet. I replace my balls after about 1,000 plays and Novus/Wax the PF every month and haven't had any issues.
Agreed, Spooky playfileds look amazing. Same with American pinball.

AIQ lane guides aren't digging in by antman? Or did you get a later run where Stern was installing washers from the factory to lift the guides up?

1 month later
#8484 2 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

I wonder if Mirco boxed themselves into a corner with a very expensive UV printer that can only handle proprietary UV inks, perhaps ones that aren't as well suited for wood? Just like your printer at home, probably none use a standardized print cartridge. And given the cost of a large UV printer - likely switching to an alternative ink other than the manufacture's products is a big 'no go'.
Here's a quick SnipIt of a random large UV flatbed printer:
[quoted image]

Pfft. Looks like only 350 of us need to get together and we can get one of these and do some experimenting to get playfields made to our spec, one for each of the 350 @ $500. Now, we just need to get ahold of the art file...

2 years later
#9207 67 days ago
Quoted from Hawks:

Looks like off centre inserts exist on Batman 66 too, nice dimples too
This is an extension of my previous post #9200
[quoted image]

Batman '66 was an especially bad offender in the "soft playfield" lottery. One of the worst in the Spike2 era.

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