In some cases, possibly, but what’s been happening is the ink has been lifting too.

My JP2 had larger washers than this from the factory and I had no issues on those larger posts. One smaller post had very minor pooling, covered with a rubber washer I installed.

Why is it shady? A few posts up, the guy asked a question and jack answered it. Has a cause been identified, yes. Has it been fixed, yes. They aren’t going to give you details. The wonka and Elvira games I saw at expo, and there were quite a few, all looked great.

I agree it would be nice to have the how and why, but it’s a competitive (and unregulated) market and you have multiple companies with similar issues. Releasing detailed info provides a competitor with potentially valuable info. I don’t think Spooky ever released the issues behind their playfield problems, giving them the upper hand right now as their playfields are all good now.

Warranty for stern is in the back of every manual. It only covers dmd/lcd and boards, and only for original owner. There is no warranty on the playfields. I don’t know how you would win a claim through your CC company. The only warranty extension your Amex would cover is boards/lcd. I’d bet JJPs is similar.
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So you basically have 30 days with jjp to file a claim if your playfield has issues. If your credit card company has a double warranty, you are at 60 days. But, you have to prove there is a defect. Is pooling a defect? Is a small chip a defect? In your eyes (and mine) yes, but maybe not to the CC company or the manufacturer.

I’m not trying to be argumentative here, just trying to think it through.

if you buy a car and the paint chips in a small spot, can you do a chargeback? The car company at best will give you touch up paint. If you buy an appliance and there is a small chip, can you do a chargeback? Same thing, they probably send touch up paint. I’m sure it’s not what people want to hear and I’m not saying chips aren’t bad, they are very bad on new games and I’d be very upset, just not sure it’s as easy as people make it sound to file a chargeback. Has anyone actually done it and been successful?

I think anyone doing a chargeback will face a steep uphill battle. Better to go to the manufacturer and seek a solution. For games with chips, people have received unpopulated playfields, which should put the next buyer of your game at ease.

Cgc excludes wear and tear, you’ll have to prove it’s not. Assuming Cgc determines you have a defect, you have to send them the part at your cost and labor. If you have a playfield issue, does this mean depopulate it at your cost, send it, they send a new one and you repopulate it? I think technically it does.

My Elvira looks good, just received premium Monday. Thinner clear, no artwork around posts.

Nope, not for me. My clear is noticeably thinner. Have minor dimpling, but no pooling or chipping.

My Elvira premium has been great, not much dimpling and no clear coat issues.

I think I’ve posted a few times in this thread, my Elvira premium, which I got about a month ago, has no playfield issues, no pooling or chipping, no artwork up to the posts and thinner clear coat, more like a bw game. I also don’t have any obvious dimpling and have had virtually no mechanical issues (one gargoyle did come off, but was easily put back on). I can’t speak for others, but I’m very happy with the game so far. I’ve been critical of stern in the past and this is my only spike game right now, but I think they got it right on this game.

Which ones? Im really happy with my Elvira pf, looks like an older bw game, which we all seem to like. Stern spent a lot on understanding and fixing the issues and I was told firsthand my Elvira would be good, and it is. I’d like to hear if anyone has a playfield from post-expo (mid-October) that has issues. Please show the date of the game/playfield and the issues. Thought I saw some recent jp games with issues, but not sure I saw the dates of manufacture.

What was the date of the playfield/game manufacture of the problems you’ve seen? I’m trying to be objective and establish some baseline here. Anyone have a game made (not purchased) since October with playfield issues?

I like the look of the thinner clear.

This isn't entirely true. I’d suggest attending a show and having a conversation with stern staff. I did. They won’t tell you specifics because they are trade secrets, but they did more than just thin the clear. I want to see issues with playfields that were produced post September. So far, none have been shown. If there is evidence of chipping/pooling/excessive dimpling in these newer playfields, we should continue to be vocal. No doubt that playfields in 2019 and prior had issues, but it seems both jjp and stern may have now addressed these issues.

They won’t reveal what they did or how they analyzed the problems as that info would benefit their competitors, and I respect that. I was told the problems were identified and fixed and that my Elvira would not have any issues. So far, that has been true. I can only speak from my experience, whether people to choose to believe me is up to them. I understand and appreciate the skepticism.

This thread exists because there have been significant issues with chipping and pooling at both jjp and stern. People are reporting no issues with newer wonkas and I’m not sure there is evidence newer production stern games have issues. I don’t think anyone in the Elvira thread has reported any issues and most seem happy with their playfields.

That seems reasonable to me.

I do not believe the dimpling is due to the wood. I am a woodworker and have a number of hardwoods on hand, including, walnut, sapele, white ash (which baseball bats are made of), white (quarter sawn) and red oak and cherry. This is hardly scientific, but I dropped a pinball on all of the unfinished species multiple times from a couple of inches in the air and they all dimpled, including sapele, which is the hardest of the bunch. They didn’t dimple in the same way, but they all showed noticeable damage.

I dropped the ball on unfinished wood, but I also tested on a few finishes I use, including Behlen’s rock hard table top varnish, minwax polyurethane, hood finishing water-based poly and water-based lacquer. The varnish did not hold up as well with much deeper divots. I would expect this as varnish is not as hard. Both the water-based and minwax poly held up better with shallower divots. The water-based lacquer seemed to hold up the best, but there too I could see the impact from the ball.

The conclusion leads me to believe that it is not necessarily the wood causing the issue, but may be more related to the type of finish being used. Nevertheless, across the finishes, you still see damage.

I am thinking that the faster a game plays and thus the harder the ball contacts the playfield and the more airballs you get, the more you may see damage. I don’t recall many bw games having many persistent airball issues (I may be wrong) and they are not as fast as today’s games. My tspp, which I’ve owned since 2003, shows very little dimpling, it has no airball issues and isn’t nearly as fast as GB, Met or ACDC. My RS and wh20 also show almost nothing. I don’t buy the argument that dimples even out over time, no way that’s true.

Only the manufacturers know how their processes have changed and none will share it so we are left in the dark.

Not sure and hadn’t considered that, but I do see some minor dimpling on the coffin insert in front of the captive ball on my Metallica pro, same as rest of the pf. It may be there are airballs coming off that captive ball, not sure. Maybe try dropping the ball on to some of your inserts to see if you get any divots.

Like I said though, all wood dimples, at least what I tested, so even switching to another wood I don’t think fixes anything.

Plywood is made from Maple and other types of wood, such as oak, birch, etc. They can't use solid wood, if that's what you mean, because it's not stable and could/would warp over time. Almost any hardwood will dimple.

Take a look at magnets on games, they dimple.

Why not just put a playfield protector on all games at the factory? Id imagine it would not cost very much buying in bulk. Over time, as they wear, the owner could replace them and still have a nice new pf underneath. I've had one on my mmr since day 1, looks great, not a whole lot of difference in play. Easier to replace a pf protector than an entire pf.

Looks better than a dimpled pf everyone seems to hate. It’s a wear and tear item, replace it when you want or don’t. If I were a manufacturer, I’d seriously consider this for an LE and make it an option for a pro/standard.

Fix it. Remove the post and iron it down, add a washer and be done with it. Don’t wait for it to get worse.

You can buy a vinyl/leather repair kit. All you need from it is the metal stamp. It’s the perfect size. Heat it with a torch or other heat source and follow what Yelobird suggests. It’s a 100% and permanent fix.

3M 08579 Leather & Vinyl Repair Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0058WXNOK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ZFsVEbW13NZVN

My GnR le playfield looks good and I’m looking closely at the posts every time I play. Clear appears to be thinner compared to potc and wonka. My wonka had slight pooling at a couple of sling posts as did my potc.

My last four sterns have also been good, LZ, aiq, Elvira and tmnt. However, on aiq, I did have an issue with a guide rail digging into the playfield, which was an easy fix. I had st, and that suffered from a lot of dimpling. I don’t recall my JP having any pooling issues.

Some JPs had artwork up to the posts, those games appeared to be more susceptible to pooling. JP is several games ago, seems like the pooling issue has been resolved with thinner clear, maybe they changed the process too, idk. I haven’t seen anyone have pooling issues with Elvira, tmnt, st, LZ or aiq. The guide rails digging in are still an issue on some stern games, but are fixed by raising them if you catch them eatly. Mine were all raised from the factory on LZ.

All games dimple, some more than others, but may also be a function of the speed of the game combined with the amount of airballs. St is a fast game with a lot of airballs off the demo, which may contribute to the dimpling.

Is that your game? What’s the manufacture date and what model? Looks like the post was pulled up and took the clear and paint with it.

I think most people are looking for some acknowledgement of the problem, that they are addressing it and that they will stand behind the product. Now, that's not as easily done as it is typed because acknowledgement sends them down a slippery and potentially very expensive slope. The main thing is to get the issue corrected, stand behind that with a strong warranty and find a solution for the most egregious playfields, such as chipping washers won't cover. First and foremost, they have to restore confidence. If my game had pooling, I wouldn't be happy about it, but I could live with it and probably fix it myself (I did on wonka). Even if I had small chips, if I knew I could control them from getting worse and could cover them, I'd generally be ok with it, not happy, but not mad enough to demand a new playfield.

yeah, I do agree with that, but trial and error won't get people to buy the next game. I believe that Stern knew they had a solution and didn't have to trial and error. Elvira was when the issues were solved with noticeably thinner clear and no artwork around posts. games since then have been fine.

I suppose one way to restore confidence is when they do release the next game, institute an enhanced playfield warranty and make a feature statement noting playfield finish quality. That might give some confidence to buy the next game. Won't make previous owners happy, of course, but could give new confidence moving forward. just a thought, tough situation all around.

Agree with you. Been wondering why people wouldn’t take the buy back if offered? You have chipping and peeling of the playfield art and it looks pretty bad in the pics I’ve seen. Why would you want to keep that game? Is it because they think someone in the secondary market would really want to pay a higher price for this game? I wouldn’t touch it personally, mainly because it could get worse. Is it because they think jjp will offer them new playfields in the future? If it were me, I’d take them up on the offer and go find a nice LE in the secondary market. Maybe I don’t understand because I’m not much into the exclusivity club. I bought the LE because I just wanted a full feature game and didn’t care that I was X out of 500.

Not sure how they could justify only buying back CEs if an LE or SE looked just as bad. The warranties are the same across games I think, even though they don’t mention playfields.