Link?

A new product should not have defects, but I don't agree that the size or type of defect doesn't matter.

I don't remember Stern giving people new playfields for the LOTRs that had slight registration issues, nor should they have IMO.

I reported two issues on my WOZ, back in 2013. It had a scratch on the backglass and the back upper edge of the lower cabinet was shredded, like it had been cut by a dull saw. JJP sent me a replacement backglass. The cabinet I felt was minor since it couldn't be seen from the front, so I didn't ask for anything.

I've also seen varying degrees of graining on the playfields from multiple manufacturers. Doesn't look great but doesn't make the playfield wear any faster. Again, manufacturers will not send you a new playfield, nor should they IMO.

I think things like pooling and ghosting that can lead to more extensive damage do warrant a new playfield.

Yeah, I thought DPs were supposed to be good, darn.

The solution is simple, just put clear channels under anything that is putting pressure on the playfield.

Any progress yet with your playfield issues?

Nice to see those washers protecting the playfield.

Stern warranty from the Dead Pool manual. No mention of playfield imperfections so that's up to their discretion or lawsuit as others have mentioned.
I think the warranties from other manufacturers are similar.

STERN PINBALL INC LIMITED WARRANTY
Stern Pinball Inc ('SELLER') warrants only to the initial purchaser of its products that the items listed below are free from defects in material and workmanship under normal use and service for the warranty period specified:

• Printed circuit boards (game logic): 2 months
• Dot Matrix / LCD Display: 9 months

No other parts of seller's product are warranted. Warranty periods are effective from the initial date of shipment from seller to its authorized distributors.Seller's sole liability shall be, at its option, to repair or replace products which are returned to seller during the warranty periods specified, provided:

1.Seller is notified promptly upon discovery by purchaser that stated products are defective.
2.Such products are properly packaged and then returned freight prepaid, to seller's plant.

This warranty does not apply to any parts damaged during shipment and/or due to improper handling, or due to improper installation or usage, or alteration. In no event shall the seller be liable for any anticipated profits, loss of profits, loss of use, accidental or consequential damages, or any other losses incurred by the customer in connection with the purchase of a Stern Pinball Inc
Product.

WARRANTY DISCLAIMER
Except as specifically provided in a written contract between seller and purchaser, there are no other warranties, express or implied, including any implied warranties of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. This Game Service Manual and all other documents relating to this product, playfield components, features, rules, programming, and operation are subject to change without notice (Service Bulletins, if applicable, available through official Stern Pinball website).

ATTENTION! IMPORTANT WARRANTY INFORMATION
The electronics system, node network architecture,mechanical devices and associated software control systems in this pinball machine are designed to work with genuine Stern Pinball accessories and devices.Installation of non-authorized accessories, lamps,LED's, motors or other devices or modification of electro-mechanical devices may damage the system and will void your warranty.

You've been one of Stern's most vocal supporters and responder to those who criticize them, as well as buying a bunch of their games.

IMO, if they're being selective about who gets taken care of, it's very short sighted of them not to take care of you, and in a timely manner.

Would it be bad to take out the post and put a plug there? Similar to the town square area in the early TZ playfields?

IMO, if you know typical production variation things will bother you, like the amount of playfield graining, clearcoat thickness or cratering, for example, it's better to buy used and see what you're getting.

Some people don't notice or care about those things so NIB can be a fun experience with less risk.

I see no mention of pooling or chipping as being acceptable, so there is that.

I miss the coffin lock on the back box.

I agree with others who've said it's a knot in that plywood layer. I expect it's within acceptable limits from the supplier.

That rippling in the clear has been around for a long time. My first WOZ had it, second one is like glass. I've seen it on Fishtales, LOTR, Spiderman to name a few.

I haven't noticed that it affects playfield wear it's just cosmetic.

Not great but I consider it within the production variation range so didn't complain.
I did come to the conclusion that if those types of cosmetic defects were going to bother me, best not to buy NIB.

Mirco does JJP's playfields.

Definitely! That's totally unacceptable. Contact the manufacturer and accept nothing less than your money back or a populated playfield.

I will accept nothing less than an MRI for my playfield

Thank you sir, may I have another?

Wanting something fixed doesn't make it magically happen. Who knows how many fixes have been tried. If I was Mirco, I'd be running a bunch of experiments at the same time, given how long it seems to take for playfields to cure and show the problem.

Edit: Unless he's already solved the problem.

Shouldn't they also remove the artwork around that washer?

If that's true, why doesn't the manufacturer just send those few cases populated playfields? It would generate positive press and more sales versus the negative press they're getting now.

I think I'd be okay with an unpopulated playfield for cosmetic issues like pooling, ghosting, etc, but not for an issue like your warped playfield that severely affected gameplay.

I wouldn't be able to enjoy the game until it was fixed.

That was one of the 1%...

Give it another 18 months and I bet that playfield looks smooth as glass after those dimples flatten out.

I'm not so sure. From what I see, I think the majority of people who say they're going to stop buying NIB, stop. There are just lots of buyers who don't care as much, are willing to roll the dice, or are unaware of the issues.

That would be great for us but I just don't see the factory doing that as long as they have plenty of buyers.

Lets say 100 playfields have problems. Hmmm...what's the factory going to do?
1) Bare the cost to replace and rework all 100 playfields before shipping (which may not work for things like chipping or pooling if they haven't fixed the cause).
2) Wait until someone who cares about it complains, in which case you send them a blank playfield and let them replace it.
3) For the few really bad playfields or most persistent complainers, send out a populated playfield.

I don't undertand why JJP hasn't found a different vender after so many years of problems with Mirco.

I would bet they are trying to fix the problem. Why wouldn't they? But trying doesn't mean solving and they have to keep the factory going to stay in business. I don't want to apologize for them but it's a nightmare of a situation to be in.

How do you think it would affect their business if they publically announced that their playfields may pool or chip and that although they're working to solve the problem they don't know if or when they will find a solution.

We want transparency but it seems like bad news without a solution is never received well.

If the problem is inherent to DTS, shouldn't Spooky have the same issue? Regardless, if removing the art under high stress areas fixes the issue, I think most people would be okay with that.

Yes, but they supposedly fixed the problem.

I disagree. Mirco is the supplier and should be the expert in what they do, making quality playfields. Is it the supermarket's responsibility to tell Nabisco how to adjust their ovens because the Chips Ahoy cookies aren't getting baked enough? (Yes, this has been a problem with some batches)

JJP could remove artwork if so directed by Mirco or just to see if it helps. JJP could refuse to pay for playfields that don't meet the standards agreed upon. JJP can try to find another supplier.

I don't think it's JJP's responsibility to fix Mirco's problems, but JJP is responsible for the quality, including the playfield, of the games they ship to customers.

Some things are not so easy to fix, if at all. Playfield clear coat issues with DTS printing seems like one of these things, otherwise I don't think we'd be seeing all these problems from different manufacturers.

What if keeping the line turned off for an indefinite amount of time means shutting down the company? What do you do?

Guess I wasn't clear, I agree that JJP has to back every component they ship to a customer, according to their warranty, but I don't think it's their job to solve the problems their suppliers are having. Sure, it's in JJP's best interest to do all they can to help their suppliers if they can.

Mirco has a large business outside of JJP. Seems like their non JJP playfields should have similar problems.

I think it's always trial and error until you confirm over many runs that your "solution" is going to work. For pinball machines, that may mean being in customers hands for a while to verify temperature changes and extended play don't reveal any issues.

Does it make sense to send out or sell replacement playfields that have the same problems?

I don't think there is a way to make customers happy until they solve the problem. Or at least lessen it to a point where there are enough buyers at the new 'normal' to stay in business.

And...back to square one.

Yeah, I'm glad you agree with me.

I worked in the R&D department of a company that makes integrated circuits so perhaps that gives us a little different perspective.

A part can be sold to thousands of manufacturers who may install them into thousands of their systems. If one of our parts does not meet it's specifications or fails in a way not caused by the manufactuer or end user, it can be sent back for a replacement or a refund. So, we replace the $5 part but the manufacturer, like JJP, incurrs all the cost to take the part from the system and deal with the unhappy end user.

Bottom line, it sucks to be a manufacturer when an up line supplier delivers a faulty product. The suckage only gets worse if it gets to the end user.

Flipside, we don't stay in business very long if we get a reputation for delivering poor quality integrated circuits.

I'm not so sure. They have to ship pins to keep their employees working, stay in business, etc...
Sending out playfields that have the same problem costs them money and still doesn't satisfy the customer.

Good to know, will avoid buying from them. It would great if another playfield supplier gave us a better option.
Anyone who thinks the printing/clearcoating issues are easy to solve, here's your opportunity to make a bundle!

In all fairness, I don't think Oneangrymo's near death experience was a result of cosmetic issues with his Alien pinball machine's playfield...

Now that you mention it, you make a good point.

If I'm playing someone elses game, pooling, chipping, planking, dimples, etc.. don't bother me at all. I only care about how well it plays.

How did you manage to get the inside scoop from one of the employees?

Here's a Ghostbuster's example. I can see what you mean regarding the extra thick keyline covering where the ghosting typically appears. Smart move by Stern as it makes it very hard to see.

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