Quoted from razorsedge:

CPR and Mirco each have their issues. You'd only be choosing what kinds of issues your game will present with. Although, seems like with Mirco it's just that they don't allow time for proper curing. On the other hand you cant wave a wand and magically make your CPR go "poof" and become decent hard wood.

Quoted from razorsedge:

6-12 months apparently. ... Longer to be safe. Cant remember where I read that, but it was given advice. (Mirco)
There is no possible way these manufacturers are allowing their new releases to cure for anywhere near this amount of time.

Quoted from quickstop:

Here is a pic of my Maiden Pro chipping. I never noticed the chipping until I found the missing piece in another area.[quoted image]

Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I think you may be right.
This picture isn't clear coming off.
It's like a bad playfield overlay that is coming off.
Makes sense that the ink is not adhering to playfield.
How much more does it cost to do good old screen printed?[quoted image]

Quoted from pinballplusMN:

Im curious if in colder climates its risky to move/transport these games with pf issues? Could moving the game in 10 degree or worse cold make things worse?

Quoted from sirlonzelot:

Impressive, who’s gonna try this with a new Jjp or Stern playfield ?

Quoted from libtech:

Wish you guys made Sterns playfields..

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

My final guess why this is happening. Both Stern and JJP tried to get playfield costs lower by saving money on clear coat costs. Mirco, or whoever doesn't just suddenly lose the ability to make quality playfields after doing so without issue for years. This cost savings theory was introduced on the TWIP podcast and honestly it doesn't surprise me one bit. If true both manufacturers have some nerve to charge record high NIB prices and then cut playfield quality of all things.

Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Not under warranty. People looking for resolution need to remove that word from the conversation. The warranty is printed in every manual I've looked at and it doesn't cover playfields.
Yes, companies have 'taken care of' customers outside of warranty. Without that written warranty we're all left mostly guessing what is covered, for how long, and under what conditions.
It might be helpful to get organized. Decide what to call the defects, document who has them, how many, and on what machines. Affected purchasers could post photos, your distributors could refer to those when dealing with the manufacturers.

Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Because it's almost free to do so and isn't likely to do any damage. It MAY help.
The kind of remedy you might try while investigating the root cause.

Quoted from Lamprey:

Doesn't Varethane (Polyurethane?) turn yellow in time? Or are there new formulations that don't yellow now?

Quoted from pickleric:

Has anyone asked if JJP would do the swap for those willing to get the game to them?

Quoted from Raegor:

You're losing value with the blank playfield.
Would you rather buy pin A used with no damage or pin B used with bubbling/chipping + free blank playfield?
I'd take A

Quoted from donkadelic:

Except it's literally not corrected. Anything short of a fixed & assembled machine is not acceptable.
If anyone thinks otherwise, ask yourself this question. 2 machines are up for sale for the same price, which do you buy?
#1 - A machine with the playfield pooling and chipping, with a new fixed unpopulated playfield.
#2 - Same machine but with just a fixed populated playfield.
Since it's obviously a rhetorical question, the next question is how much cheaper will #1 be than #2? My guess is at least 400-500$. So even with option 1, Stern/JJP is straight up screwing a nib buyer out of 400-500$ (minimum, probably more like 1k). Unacceptable imo.

Quoted from swampfire:

Here’s what I paid for my 3 NIB Sterns, in inflation-adjusted dollars (includes shipping & taxes):
2004 - LOTR - $5161
2013 - MET - $5176
2019 - JP2 - $5500
LOTR and MET came with monochrome DMDs, so I added ColorDMDs for $350 (show specials). Considering all that, I think Stern’s pricing has been pretty stable, with steady improvements in audio, graphics and electronics.

Quoted from cooked71:

I just received my Jurassic Park LE with the new Playfield fixes. Very happy. Think it’s goung to last forever.[quoted image]

Quoted from BeaglePuss:

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from Chambahz:

Dude, you’re way out in left field. Nobody said issues should or should not be remedied.
The discussion was that Stern has stated it’s not widespread.
That’s all.
Good luck with your Wonka.

Quoted from Chambahz:

And there’s a whole other interesting topic of discussion. Pooling.
ASSUMING it’s only ever pooling, and doesn’t get to chipping, should Stern pay to replace entire playfields? Not in my opinion.
Should they replace playfields with minor chipping near a post? I sure hope they do, cause I like my playfields perfect -but that’s the “collector” approach that I have. Assuming the chip doesn’t affect the gameplay, and the game still works as intended, why would a company offer to pay the costs of replacing playfields? Especially when they’ve previously syptated that playfields aren’t under warranty.
Only if it drastically affects future sales, is the answer.
Damn, I seriously hope we never get to paying for extended warranties as is common in some industries.

Quoted from Chambahz:

Disagree. They may have noticed that it was 100% of playfields for a 1 week period and that they needed to fix it moving forward, but that 1 week worth of pins isn’t considered “widespread” in the grand scheme of things.
Something worthy of fixing does not indicate “widespread”.
Does it?

Quoted from Chambahz:

No, of course not. I never said that anyone was a liar.
The discussion is whether there are enough issues to be called “widespread”.
I’ve posted enough on the subject as expressed my opinion.
You are all welcome to your own, and I respect that, truly.
I’m just not a fan if people labelling Stern when I don’t think they are intentionally deceiving anyone.
Of course, you are welcome to vote with your wallets and avoid future pins u til such time as you feel supported enough to purchase.

Quoted from Chambahz:

Great point!
“If a game is expensive, we automatically get to amend the warranty in our favour!”
This is the ridiculousness that is Pinside.
Stern (I believe?) has stated that they will review play fields on a case by case basis. But Pinsiders are upset that Stern hasn’t made a public announcement, over an issue that so far seems to be (in most of the cases) cosmetic, only?
I’m glad we could hash this out to nail down everyone’s expectations of Stern.
Seems reasonable.

Quoted from Rum-Z:

That may illustrate that Stern will probably have to remove artwork under ANYTHING that mounts to the playfield. Ughhh...

Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Quick Update:
Stern has been fast to respond to my emails. They said they sent my pictures to quality control and offered to send me a bottle of clear touch-up to mitigate the paint peeling issue.

Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:

Not really a head scratcher. You had different processes, different materials, and a whole slew of toxic chemicals that are now considered unsafe.
#gimmebackmyVOCs

Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:

Because prepping metal for paint and clear vs prepping art work covered new growth plywood wood is like comparing apples to walruses.

Quoted from Wickerman2:

Stern’s business plan is a mystery wrapped in a riddle covered in soft clearcoat...working though so what do I know?

Quoted from knockerlover:

I'll apply some logic (that I don't agree with) from the big lebowski thread.. if we all push the issue and ask for replacement playfields, JJP will go bankrupt and wont be able to make any more games!
It's B.S. that distributors are claiming new LE's have no more playfield issues, but it sounds like those of us who bought sooner are stuck with puddles of clear and chipping playfields.

Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Has anyone tried to remove a post from an area where there is pooling but no chipping? I'm curious if the bottom of the post is stuck to the clear when trying to remove it.

Quoted from DerRoland:

Q: how much is a huo first run JP2 with issues and an unpopulated new playfield worth?
More or less a flawless huo JP2?
An indifferent buyer would pay slightly less, leave the defective pf in the cabinet and store the new one for a future sell.
A collector would pay even less, cause he has to swap the mechs and the risk, that the new pf can be in the same poor quality as the original one.
A clever buyer would say this too, but do nothing and store or sell the new pf.
So when you want the best price, you have to swap the pf before a sale.
I prefer to buy a flawless JP2 next year (or no more pin at all, when stern continues to disrespect their customers).

Quoted from Durzel:

Ultimately it’s really simple.
It’s not beyond the wit of man to produce playfields that don’t chip or pool, or seriously dimple. It was done 30 odd years ago by WMS, it’s still done today by the likes of CGC.
There’s one simple reason why this is happening now: cost. Reduction of BOM has been evident for some time now above the playfield (Munsters topper anyone? Single target bank instead of drops on the same pin, etc) so it’s no great surprise it’s spread to PF quality and QC.

Quoted from Durzel:

Ultimately it’s really simple.
It’s not beyond the wit of man to produce playfields that don’t chip or pool, or seriously dimple. It was done 30 odd years ago by WMS, it’s still done today by the likes of CGC.
There’s one simple reason why this is happening now: cost. Reduction of BOM has been evident for some time now above the playfield (Munsters topper anyone? Single target bank instead of drops on the same pin, etc) so it’s no great surprise it’s spread to PF quality and QC.

Quoted from PtownPin:

I hope I'm wrong, but I think JJP is running out of gas....my bet is investors have thrown down the gauntlet and said either make money or were gonna sell off your assets...

Quoted from cpr9999:

All these dimples make me wonder.....
Why don’t they compress the wood in a big press before they color print and clear the playfield?
Not a wood guy but there must be a reason they don’t.

Quoted from Rager170:

All because they cant QC the playfields correctly prior to populating them... And even then, we all know they noticed the problem while populating them and shipped them out to distributors regardless. Frustrating.

Quoted from wesman:

Well sadly, if JJP does ever go away, it would leave a legacy of arguably the greatest five games of the last 2 decades. So many production issues have otherwise marred 5 games that have been somewhat peerless in code, music, lcd animation, and overall gameplay since the long lost B/W days.
At this point, I only wonder if Deeproot can possibly create or maintain that standard. Stern certainly isn't....

Quoted from harryhoudini:

We need an advocacy group of pinball enthusiasts who can organize and get manufacturers to change their stance on quality and customer service.

Quoted from MrBally:

Plywood does that.

Quoted from chuckwurt:

For what it’s worth, my STH LE looks awesome. Much thicker coat than the pro, no pooling or chipping. From what I understand with that the pooling is immediate and I don’t see any.

Quoted from Mike_J:

How many Wonkas do you own to arrive at the conclusion that all of the new ones are solid?

Quoted from JodyG:

Playfield protectors just don't work for me. They play different, take the ball noise away, and get dirty too fast.

Quoted from JodyG:

I have had great experiences with modern 2 part auto clear coat finishes that I apply myself. And I'm not talking the rattle can stuff. I use $130/quart DuPont Chroma clear. Nice and hard in a couple days, doesn't chip, and plays to my liking.

Quoted from Midway-Man:

It looks like. There is some Lexan or some sort of Acrylic on top of the playfield. It doesn’t look like a wood surface.

Quoted from NC_Pin:

For the record.... weight also is also a big factor. The ol' F=Ma^2 plays into it...
It would be interesting to see... how much quicker do *fast* tables dimple compared to slower ones? Assuming that all pinballs weigh the same... a steeper pitch should lead to more PF damage.

Quoted from Jackalwere:

The harder you make the playfield, the harder it will be to cut and drill. Add extra costs for all those drill and router bits that would get dull pretty quickly.
Bamboo seems ideal from a durability standpoint, too bad it grows long enough but isn't wide enough to cover a playfield.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The new official UV dimple lighting kit makes the dimples disappear!
[quoted image]

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Good point. By producing only novelty videos of people love-tapping plexiglass "playfields" with home-improvement tools, and not actually making pinball machines, Stern indeed would "just end all this crap."

Quoted from RJW:

Hockey glass is plexiglass (acrylic), not lexan (polycarbonate). Lexan would scratch too easy and the clarity isn't that good to began with.

Quoted from Mrawesome44:

As someone who constantly rags on stern for QC issues. I can honestly say on my tmnt le this is hands down by far the best playfield ive seen from stern in years. Playfield looks and feels like glass. No raised inserts.

Quoted from newpinbin:

I no longer buy NIB. Yes, Stern's quality SUCKS all the way! But they do make the most enjoyable and fast playing machines.

Quoted from Tranquilize:

I've heard this many times on here, but I've never seen any evidence. Does anyone on here work in an industry (auto or something?) where this has happened. I know some finishing oils have been banned in Canada...

Quoted from crujones4life:

One game I don't think i have seen issues on is Star Wars. Can anyone confirm? It is my first NIB and is still waiting to be built...bought it back in August. SW Pro. It looks like art has been pulled back some on newer builds for this one even though I personally haven't read about issues with Star Wars. Does stern use different types/shapes/styles of ball guides in its newer pins?

Quoted from cooked71:

Thought I better resurrect this chestnut as it’s the answer to all Playfield pooling issues......Playfield art is overrated anyway.....
[quoted image]

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

The car companies do give you touch up paint for all the paint chips!

Quoted from Darscot:

Sadly the thread tends to come to life whenever a new pin drops. Good luck to all the Led Zeppelin buyers.

Quoted from Max_Badazz:

interesting (that level is not warped FYI)[quoted image]

Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

This operator has found out how to avoid pooling
[quoted image]

Quoted from Extraballz:

So is a Spooky the only pin company making great playfields at the moment? What a disgrace Stern and JJP are. The playfield is the heart of every pin.

Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

clear coat is not 1/16" nor it is even close to be.

Quoted from Stef95:

And the worst is that people think that a company can stop its production line by snapping its fingers, not delivering a machine for 1 year and coming back as if nothing had happened, apologizing for not having been perfect !! Seriously, if they can they'll recrify all these problems. Be patient, enjoy life and your pinball machine and especially if you are better than them get started in pinball production and let us see what you are capable of.

Quoted from Stef95:

Ah well, if you have a simple solution, give them a phone call and the problem is solved.

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

To know with certainty the playfields are being properly painted and cleared, there needs be test that can be run by JJP, prior to installing or paying for them. Obviously, Mirco can perform same test to verify the playfields are good, but they are also tasked with doing it right the first time. Any playfields don’t pass the test, they don’t get used or paid for. They are returned to Mirco who now sands both sides and repeats process. So the valuable playfield blank is not lost, it’s a only redo. This will accelerate the process of JJP switching to Vader or CGC or requiring Mirco to screen print their playfields. Better yet they jump ship ASAP. But until that happens ...
That test exists now and should be run on every playfield arriving at JJP. Not the post test currently being screwed in, but the popsicle test. After gluing sticks to playfield, they are pulled off and the force required is measured. A low amount of force that can pull stick off and whether paint comes off with clear, indicates low cross bonding. JJP should make effective immediately, all playfields will now have artwork printed and cleared on the UNDER side of playfield too. Then any testing of paint to cc adhesion could be done at will by anyone at anytime and it doesn’t destroy the playfield for use. Costs more, but it is only reliable way to ensure you are building the pin with a GOOD playfield.

Quoted from paulbaptiste:

I absolutely wanted to keep the game. If you look at my collection I dont own a single modern game outside of JJP. I've owned all their games and honestly wanted to keep all 6 in my collection. GNR broke me of that fantasy. That being said I truly hope they do find an answer and quickly as I feel they do make the most magical games in pinball and force Stern and the rest of the industry to compete and push the limit. We need that. We need JJP to keep innovating. Unfortunately their is a bleeding elephant in the room that needs addressed and customers (like myself) who need to know that the company we continually invest in also has our backs. I for one am rooting for a speedy and just resolution for all affected.
My 2 cents of course.