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Quoted from razorsedge:Also bonus get a propper backbox latch, backbox, and real lockdown reciever.
Can't believe someone is still bitching about this stuff - the new lockdown latches are superior to the old
Besides, how many times do you use the backbox latch and lockdown bar
come on.... you probably miss incandescent bulbs also
Quoted from PanzerFreak:My final guess why this is happening. Both Stern and JJP tried to get playfield costs lower and one way of doing so is to save money on the clear process. Mirco, or whoever doesn't just suddenly lose the ability to make quality playfields after doing so without issue for years. This cost savings theory was introduced on the TWIP podcast and honestly it doesn't surprise me one bit.
If true both manufacturers have some nerve to charge record high NIB prices and then cut playfield quality of all things. Based on the TWIP discussion it sounds like the playfield creation process (the wood, applying artwork / clear, prep, etc) is the most costly item in a pinball machine so it's a decent guess to think companies would try to lower costs in that area. As a pinball company you just don't pull something like that as it would be a pure greed move on top of regularly raising prices.
Hope I'm wrong.
I disagree - I don't think it was an attempt to lower costs - if you have any evidence I will revoke my comments
I think it has something to do with the EPA forcing companies to stop using proven products they have for years
and the new products are either inferior and/or not being used/mixed/cured correctly
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:If they are going to do that, at least get some damn washers that are the same diameter as the base of the post. Seriously, how hard is that?!?!
that would defeat the purpose of the washers.
With the washers, they are trying to enlarge the footprint to reduce stress in a concentrated area
But it's a band-aid and does not address the real issue nor prevent future issues in other areas
I am really having second thoughts on my JP premium
I was super excited about this pin but could be just as happy playing what i have now while Stern figures this out
It's sort of ironic that you can pay JJP extra for shiny RadCals eye candy
In all honesty, I would be willing to pay extra for a PF with a better coating using higher quality clear - something that actually matters
Quoted from Who-Dey:I honestly believe that Shapeshifter has the right idea by using the mylar circles.
again, just a band-aid.
Only covers, doesn't fix nor prevent future issues in other areas
Quoted from zaphX:Yeah but those things are awesome [quoted image]
Yes, but what I was trying to convey is...
If people are willing to pay more money for what amounts to eye candy, people may be willing to pay extra for a better PF if that's what it takes
Quoted from PanzerFreak:It's good Stern is including washers on some or all of the newest JP games but that is also just an admission to a playfield issue that they are saying doesn't exist...
I don't see it that way - it's not a good thing.
It's an admission that there is an issue without a fix, so we are shipping your game with band-aids
The washers are something that may prevent me from noticing the real issue/defect until it's too late to make a claim.
They don't fix the defect nor prevent PF issues in the future in other areas
So me no bueno on shipping with the washers and calling it a day
Just posted in another thread
"Anyone interested in a Wonka LE trade, yes it has small rings of clear coat around the Star posts."
any takers? 
Quoted from Tranquilize:I would caution against Mylar. Who knows what will happen when you freeze or heat the soft, thick, blistered clear to remove it. I'm going to get some acrylic washers that are just out of ball range. My theory is that over time, the blistering (I have very little) will settle flat. Then I'll remove the large washers and put on smaller ones. Hopefully the clear can/will cure close to flat. This is all assuming I can find the damned washers...
According to the TWIP podcast - they had on people from Poor Man's Podcast and he actually works in the industry
- washers may help, but underlying issue is still there and could get worse in other areas
- if it's not cured and hard by the time we get them - they are never going to get hard and most likely clear was not mixed correctly
- if it's soft now, it's always going to be soft
Quoted from Lounge:The more I see the pictures of these issues the more I’m thinking it’s a hardware issue. I think the posts are too narrow and not set deep enough allowing the post to flex on ball impact.....
Notice the location of the pooling - always to the inside of the rubber. The chipping is just a side effect of pooling becoming brittle.
If the clear is done correctly, you should be able to torque down those posts to the point that they break without affecting the clear
Quoted from zaphX:I agree with this and it's something I've done also. My take was "hey, I saw this problem, not worried about it for now but wanted to get it on record in case it worsens later."
Just hope it doesn't worsen "out of the warranty period"
Quoted from tbutler6:Heard it from a second legitimate source:
Stern shut the line down to work on sub assemblies only until they solve any playfield issue.
Awesome if true and exactly what you expect to be done. Kudos to Stern.
Quoted from pninja005:Do any CGC pinballs have these issues?
I can't even seen any obvious dimpling on my ARFr - PF looks great
Quoted from Ranhorton:I finally have cash ready for a new game.
Wanted JP2 the most, then Deadpool but not if stern has all these playfield issues.
Now I’m thinking AFMr since it sounds like CGC has the quality control in order.
Can any CGC owners confirm their playfields are free from significant issues like stern is dealing with?
I can't even see any dimpling on my AfMr
Kudos to Jack for at least making a move in the right step. If my machine was effected, a PF doesn't really do me any good as I don't have the skill to replace one. If that's the only solution, I would rather have a $500 refund. To me personally, if I get a machined delivered by my distributor with these issues, they can pack it up and take it back for a replacement or full refund. Only solution that works for me is a defect free machine for $8 grand.
I have my fingers crossed, that this move from Jack is an acknowledgement of the issue and that no more new games leave the factory with issues. This is a 100% solvable issue in manufacturing. When new games start showing up without issues, I will resume buying with confidence.
Quoted from greenhornet:from a jersey jack factory tour:
at the 11:45 mark, jack comments on his companys pinball playfields:
"so uh our playfields come in these boxes and, you know, they get QCd. if theres anything wrong with them, they get rejected. and really these playfields, um they made by mirco in germany. he does an amazing job. and uh, theres a significant cost to these. but this is your whole game. this is what youre looking at. this is the building block of the game. so if its not done the right way, uh you know your game is kinda worthless."
BINGO. Winner winner chicken dinner!
Right from the horse's mouth
If it's not done right, your game is kinda worthless....
Down the line if we accept the current situation, what happens when it chips and peels.
I don't want jjp or stern to go out of business, but they need to be liable for defective products. The size of your company doesn't give you a pass on manufacturing defects.
I do trust that they will get these issues fixed now that the community has made a stand. But, it's how they take care of those already effected that sort of matters more to me.
Quoted from jp1985:I think it would go a long way if JJP fully records a PF swap with detailed pictures, video and step by step directions so that people have an easier time.
Really? A video would not help me one bit, I lack the skill
Quoted from Damagio:jfh I am curious to see if anyone has an IM that doesn’t have it after 100 or so plays. That would surely change my mind real fast LOL. You’re absolutely right...at least it’s not chipping or pooling. I am getting ready to restore an SI playfield and debating what clear to go with. From what I have read so far, they all dimple if you drop a ball on them. Certainly not advocating that any of us should accept this as the new normal, but also trying to be realistic about the products out there and wondering if anything is even available to put an end to it, which is what we all want.
Mine is fine, just dimples
At this point I feel very lucky
Quoted from zaphX:I might get hit by a truck years from now. Today, I'm having a great time playing a great game!
and if you don't get hit by a truck you may have to deal with a PF that has major chipping and peeling in a few years or less
Quoted from pninja005:I actually start to wonder if there are any IM out there that dont have pooling. Most (including myself) didnt notice until inpsecting after reading the messages here.
I've looked mine over, and besides major dimpling, it looks good.
Quoted from MrBally:Maybe buy a few new slot machines instead of pins. You think pins are expensive? The new slots are approaching $40K apiece with an unlicensed theme.
Yeah, but how long do you think it takes a casino to break even on a slot machine? Months, weeks, days?
Quoted from T7:Food for thought - the BMW motorcycle will most likely depreciate more than a POTC even with the clear coat issue.
Most expensive hobbies end up costing a lot more due to depreciation. But the BMW dealer did take excellent care of you.
Who cares!!! You missed his point - he will have more fun with the BMW and not have to worry that he has a product the manufacturer will not support if something is wrong with it and much less aggravation vs a NIB pin with PF issues.
Similar point I have been trying to make in previous posts. Pinball is a want not a need - and nobody needs any additional aggravation in their life. If Stern/JJP don't fix issues going forward and make right owner's current issues - I may be done with NIB pinball also. Life throws enough issues at you - who the hell needs to spend $8 grand for more.
Quoted from GamerRick:Well I certainly agree swapping isn’t fun or cheap, but I don’t blame JJ for all of it. It was Micro that screwed up. JJ should have figured it out sooner, but they are making a big step to fix it. If they replaced every machine they would go out of business. I don’t have to swap out POTC yet. I can save it for if the playfield has to be replaced. But no matter what, I absolutely love that machine, my favorite pin ever. So I’m willing to invest some to keep it working great. I think there aren’t any great choices here, but he was serious that they won’t be using bad playfields going forward and there will be new runs without the issue. I am satisfied that they are making a serious effort. I got the clear impression he knew they needed to do something big on this to keep customers happy and coming back.
I am glad you are happy with the outcome..
Manufacturer's are responsible for defective parts they put in their products regardless of what source they came from. Yes, they should go down the line and get restitution from their vendors, but that's not the consumer's concern.
Nobody is asking for them to replace every machine, but a new populated PF should be expected. It's not much of a loss to JJP as they can get the old one back and reuse most of the parts and whatever loss they incur is the cost of doing business. A threat of JJP going out of business is not something I would wish at all, but I would not take a hit as a consumer based on that fear. Ford is doing horribly, their bonds were just downgraded to junk status. If you have a problem with your F150, will you just accept a new part from Ford and put it in yourself to protect their business? It's not my responsibility to keep any business I buy from in business and I expect working defect free products regardless. Also, this is not an issue JJP was blinded sided by, they were well aware of the issues with POC and shipped Wonka with the same PF issues.
If all affected owners get is a new unpopulated PF - I will have to seriously think about any NIB JJP purchase - same goes for Stern if that's all they do.
I run my own business and aways take care of customer's issues quickly and on my dime. Anything it's costs me is nothing compared to the chance at a loss of future sales.
Quoted from Rum-Z:I think some people were recently posting that they've contacted Stern and been sent that cliffy like piece as their mylar also took a beating in that area. I don't know if they had to pay for it or were sent it for free, you might want to check with Stern and ask them about availability.
Correct, I just got that part in the mail last week at no cost.
Thanks Stern!
I doubt Stern is going to make a public statement, that's just going to encourage a flood of owners with every PF issue under the sun to come out and complain.
What I am looking for is: posts in this thread that Stern is quietly starting to take care of those effected and that LE's are going out with pristine PF's.
Quoted from PtownPin:I asked one of my distributors for a price/delivery quote on the new Dinosaur game from Stern (premium).....I then asked if they've solved the play field issues, and he was honest and said no. He said that Stern is aware of the pooling/chipping problem and working on a solution. Also said that sales have significantly slowed on JJP and Stern games....so yes its impacting the manufacturers.....lets hope they actually come out with a solution so we can talk about something else
& my distributor told me the issue has been fixed ............
Wonder if it's time to explore alternative materials besides wood - yeah they ball may roll differently, but not sure I would care
Quoted from NeilMcRae:that doesn't bode well for GNR
Exactly why, after not being able to secure a CE, I am in no rush to buy an LE
Sitting on the sideline to watch quality on first batches.
Quoted from Sako-TRG:That Wonka build date was indeed late but the playfield for it could have been sat around for quite sometime.
Remember due to Covid19 and factory relocation it was probably produced before the new batch of good ones for GnR etc....
JJP would have to be beyond stupid to allow lightning to strike twice with the same issue.
Edit: Hold my beer!
100% agree.... but still going to wait to buy any NIB.
I am in no hurry to buy anything
Quoted from Flipstream:Very small sample size, but the PF on my new Hot Wheels looks amazing. No pooling, no grain, and no crazing on inserts.
AP seems to be doing a great job with quality ... now if they would just come out with a them I care about I would be a buyer
Quoted from phil-lee:Because of EPA regulations concerning VOC emissions Manufacturers were "Encouraged" to work with less volatile materials, hence water based coatings.
If they continued with the older, harder more durable clear coats it would involve a higher priced Permit, result in a Hazardous Waste (Flammables, Reactives) waste streams and more frequent inspections of facilities by the EPA.
Water-based coatings have come a long way but are not yet as DURABLE as the older finishes.
Face it, Nitro lacquer, Isocyanates, xylene solvents are on their way out, so we must learn to live with the "Greener" alternatives.
still ..... has to be a better way
Spooky, CGI and AP seem to have figured it out - maybe not perfect, but better than what JJP and Stern are putting out
Quoted from RellikJM:Based on what I found under the apron, it has a date code of 08/01/2019. I'm guessing that the date is formatted as DD/MM/YY which is more common in Europe not MM/DD/YY as is more common in the U.S.
[quoted image]
Still amazed we have to import PF's from Germany.
Can't any US company make these?
Quoted from RellikJM:I've heard back from JJP on my playfield. Per Jack's addressing this in 2019, JJP doesn't replace a playfield that only has pooling. If the playfield should start chipping, JJP will evaluate and determine if they add you to the replacement playfield queue. They are keeping my support case open at this time. As I've said before this is a commercial amusement game not a fine collectable and I understand that pooling alone doesn't warrant replacement. If the playfield deteriorates beyond pooling I'll be contacting JJP for further consideration and will keep the forum updated. Now I'm going to go play the snot out of my new toy.
Let's see how they treat any CE owners with issues, as it's the "collector's edition" and not the commercial amusement game edition
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:We're going to be talking about this issue tonight on "Bro, Do You Even Talk Pinball?" podcast, 8pm EDT, twitch.tv/buffalopinball
This has been a long time coming. I was set to talk about it in February when I had an issue with my Deadpool, but waited to see what Stern would do, and also so that they wouldn't retaliate against me for discussing it on our platform. I have 10 years of NIB issues to detail. Seeing this problem continue is incredibly frustrating and my goal is to elevate it to help protect new buyers and maybe, just maybe get them to actually solve the issue, rather than continuing as business as usual.
Expect a healthy dose of cursing.
If you are not going to throw some fire towards JJP then don't bother
Stern has at least sent out populated PF's to some ... don't think JJP has done the same.
I just wonder why they can't catch these issues in production.
Jack Danger just did a whole stern video highlighting their QC - but it's really difficult to believe
Quoted from romulusx:The issue was with first batch playfields I think issues have been resolved.
Why was it not resolved 3 machines ago when there was issues with Pirates?
Quoted from o-din:Who needs transparency when this thread is now a year old?
Apparently this didn't stop people throwing 10s of 1000s of dollars at them to get a new amusement device with the theme of their dreams.
But, let the playfield issues and complaining continue...
Stopped me.
I was full in on a GNR LE - but now I'm just going to wait it out or buy a used game I can inspect
Already have games I love, so I don't feel I am missing out
Quoted from NJDevils30:Stern just shared a video of the Star Wars comic art production on social media. The play fields appear to be MDF. How do you guys feel about that.
[quoted image]
In the video it's clearly the home pin and not the full size
Quoted from zaphX:And remember this stuff is supposed to be fun. If the angst outweighs the fun, why bother?
Because you spent 8 grand on a toy that should not have major defects
Quoted from pinballaddicted:I for one am not going to let a few chips and a little bit of pooling stop me from enjoying some of the best games ever made.
I went through the supposed JJP playfield issues.
Of course it's yours and you can accept whatever you think is ok.. but
I am always surprised at the number of people that overlook and accept manufacturing defects on a $8,000 purchase
Stern/JJP have done a good job of convincing people that these issues are acceptable.
Also the big fear, at least mine, is how will those few chips and little bit of pooling progress as the game ages and the balls roll over them a few 1,000 times
Quoted from dts:...in this community the value will hold simply by having a backup that can be swapped out later. ...
100% Disagree
With no ability to do a PF swap myself, a replacement PF sold with a machine that has a defective PF is of Zero value to me.
I would rather pay more for a machine without the defects then be handed another PF
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:I finally got my word on my JP premium. An unpopulated playfield.
sucks ... not sure what i would even do with one
nobody is doing a swap
no buyer cares you have a spare
sad
Quoted from zaphX:Ok, so if holding purchases to force improvements is the plan...what will it take for you and the others to decide it's ok to buy again?
Case in point, all indications are the new playfields on GNR CEs are beautiful. I haven't heard a single complaint.
And yet people still angrily beat the drum in here.
That's awesome, hope it continues
but there were issues on DI, POTC, WONKA, and first run of GNR
so forgive some of us be being hesitant that the issues are fixed for good 100% going forward by a few hundred CE's without any issues
Quoted from zaphX:That’s awesome. People act like the swap is this impossibility that only a handful of super talented people in the world can do. At the end of the day it’s screwing things into wood!
Well done. Looking forward to the final pics.
Of course it's not impossible, but it does require a skill set that not everybody has. There is slightly more to it then screwing things into wood and a multitude of things can go wrong. Stern employees can't screw these things together correctly on my last 2 NIB's - what makes you think the avg. person can.
Quoted from zaphX:If you spent as much time doing the swap as you do bitching on Pinside you'd have a perfect Wonka 10 times over.
I appreciate your point of view and respect it.
I understand completely that these issues don't bother you as much as others and you continue to buy NIB and enjoy.
Nothing wrong at all with your point of view for yourself
but ...
to others, this is understandably a much bigger issue
I do not understand why you spend so much energy trying to convince them that they are wrong.
What's your angle? What do you have to gain by convincing them to change their mind?
Quoted from zaphX:Lol, no. I don't have a dog in this hunt.
I guess I just see this as a fixable problem with a few options:
- Sell the machine and move on
- Do the swap
I don't see constantly reminding everyone how wronged he was helps anyone, including himself.
The same can be said for my own commentary on the issue of course, so whatever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Again for you that seems like a reasonable solution I can't argue with.
But for others as said multiple times
- Sell the machine and move on is going result in the loss of hundreds of $$ vs a defect free
- Do the swap - not possible for a large majority of people
- 3rd option is manufacturers take responsibility (like in other industries) and send out populated PF's
and the only way this happens is if there is a significant enough impact on new sales due to concerns about quality which is achieved via consumer complaints and educating potential new buyers to what they may possibly expect.
Please tell me one other product as complicated as a PB machine where you would be sent out parts and basically have to tear the product down to the bare bones to do a replacement.
Was on location today, amazed at the dimples on LZ compared to old stern titles like iron man
I wish they could get the old Pf quality back
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:lol - please stop... get an iron man new in box, play 1800 balls the report back if you see dimples or not. Then report back in 3000 games.
was just reporting what i saw on location
I don't know the number of plays on their IronMan but they have had it for a long time and LZ is brand new
Quoted from Haymaker:Thats what I'd like to know as well. Are there any instances of bad playfields on GNR that have the "quality assurance" post under the apron?
I don't get the quality assurance post, how can a post covering 1/2" of the playfield be indicative of the entire PF quality.
You would hope the clear was applied equally and consistently over the entire pf, but how do you know?
Guess it's at least an attempt at some sort of QC - better than nothing
Quoted from Markharris2000:I think everyone just fears being that one in a hundred recipients of a bum playfield. Is it one in 50, 100, or one in 500 or 1000? I don't know, but it is not ZERO to be sure. Are they major defects that leave the factory or minor ones? All over the board I am sure. Problems with paint, Clearcoat, warping and mechanics seem pretty obvious to be caught....
Correct, and the fear is amplified due to manufacturer lack of support.
I don't have this fear with any other consumer product because I know I can easily get it exchanged at no cost or repaired at no cost by someone else (that is not me)
Quoted from Haymaker:Per Kaneda, a fresh pic of a GNR CE. If I'm not mistaken all the CE's got the "quality assurance" post under the apron, plus the "bad batch" issue was sorted for CE as well, right? Looks like the issue remains. BTW no PF replacement for this poor soul[quoted image]
That image is from the GNR owners thread
Did anybody really think the quality assurance post was worth anything?
If you have not listened to the Gomez interview on Super Awesome podcast, he talks about the PF issues towards the end of the interview
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:the clear coat and print from 30 years ago was not as shiny as the modern one, this also makes imperfections more noticeable. I honestly could not care less about dimpling. IT IS WOOD!!!!
Also, playfield protectors are horrible and let me tell you, I am very detail oriented with my games...
agree - dimpling doesn't bother me that much but spooky's PF don't seem to dimple as much as Sterns
but - chipping, peeling and bubbling would really bother me
Quoted from zaphX:Correct. A spare playfield is a $1000 part, and the people who got them were for the most part ungrateful about it. "Now what???" "I have NOT been made whole" etc. I wouldn't send replacement either after that.
Maybe, but the value of a spare unpopulated PF to me is $0 because I can't do a swap myself
Quoted from zaphX:2. Complain
3. Work around wear as best we can and don't let it detract from our enjoyment.
2 & 3 are not mutually exclusive
You can workaround the wear and enjoy your game while complaining to the company and demanding they do something to fix and improve the issues
Quoted from PanzerFreak:One way to help reduce the chance of your game having playfield or other manufacturing issues is to wait 6 months from when the first batch of games are shipped. Early manufacturing issues are often caught in the initial production runs and later corrected. At these prices getting a game early isn't worth the headaches of dealing with issues in my opinion.
I've read multiple reports about GNR CE's and LE's with pooling / chipping and almost all are from December 2020 or January 2021. We now know that games from around that time did not come with washers installed at the JJP factory. Reports of pooling / chipping seem to drop heavily after that. However, I did read one report of an owner with an April 2021 build that had pooling at a post in the upper playfield area (no washer installed) despite the game having factory washers installed in other areas.
Except they have been having the identical issue going back to Pirates ...
Quoted from Bublehead:TL;DR
I have worked with a silicon based high temp clear coating that we were developing to be used in the aircraft lighting industry, I am not an expert but I can offer my experiences-
Our pooling was the result of uncured (un-cross linked and under cross linked polymers) combined with physical pressure. What happens is the CC slowly continues to crosslink and starts hardening as the physical forces of the posts continues to provide pressure. This builds up a slowly increasing difference in force across the "pool" which acted like putting a putty knife under the pooled mass and pried it up. This force is happening because the shrink rate around the post is not linear. Any bond layer between the CC and substrate (i.e. the artwork bond of the inks to wood) will experience a gradient force over time that shears the bonds. This makes the CC the only thing from preventing the newly formed "chip" from coming completely free, until the CC becomes hardened and brittle enough that the force sheers the CC, the chip is now free to roam, and does.
The solution is to ensure the CC is completely crosslinked before installing the posts, which requires extended curing time, and or a curing accelerator (Some CC we used only cross linked at high temps and required a curing oven) but the main thing that has to occur is the CC under the posts needs to be completely cured prior to putting any pressure on the CC, and second, I would look at the bond strength of the artwork to the bare wood or whatever is on the wood. This can be tested by epoxy gluing popsicle sticks to the printed surface and pulling on the end and measuring the force required to separate it. You will find that screen printed inks and paints tend to have WAY more bond strength than DTS printing does.
The manufacturers don't seem to think solving this issue is a big priority. Yet.
I wonder if mirco doesn't full cure the PF's before they ship them, assuming they will cure during travel time to the US - which may be the issue as you can't account for temp and humidity. Of course, this is just a guess
Quoted from fooflighter:Thanks, found it on the top edge pf the playfield
April 21 Build
Jan 21 Playfield[quoted image]
so 3 months between PF creation and machine build
Accounting for transportation time, and time in hold at JJP before build - doesn't seem like Mirco is giving these a lot of cure time
Quoted from zaphX:I love their games and want them to stick around to make more, simple as that.
"Being screwed over by JJP" implies that this happened due to malice and intent, which I strongly disagree with.
It's as unfortunate for them as it is for us. Is it wrong for me to have empathy?
That being said, it's time for me to bug out of the playfield thread again and let you guys do your thing. The main instigator has moved his grievances from the owner's thread as I requested, so it's only fair for me to let you guys have your space in peace.
I will say though, I think a class action lawsuit helps no one but the lawyers and hurts us all. That is not the way.
I don't think anybody is accusing JJP of intentionally producing and selling defective PF's, but at this point what they are intentionally doing is not addressing the quality issue to customer's satisfaction.
Quoted from zaphX:...I believe they are as interested as we are in solving the problem.....
I do 100% agree with this. I don't think any viable company that cares about their future wants to continually produce and sell faulty product.
The issue is when defective products do make their way into the marketplace, how does the company handle it?
So far JJP is not handling it well on either end - solving the issue and taking care of the customer - as the problem has persisted for many years now.
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:I believe JJP will fix this issue. There will be no fanfare or announcement, but like Stern, they will fix it with trial and error. Admission of an issue won't happen.
I thought the same thing after Pirates
and then I thought the same thing after Wonka
I no long think the same thing
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Mirco is heavy into his automation of playfields with Robots. Very impressive & a lot of capital investment.
I think you probably nailed it - Mirco has too much invested in current process to make changes
In reality - past money spent doesn't matter if something is not working, it's a trap a lot of people fall into
Quoted from adrock:They were and I got one, but a very recent post in the owners thread states that they are no longer sending them out due to “supply issues”.
Supply issue for washers?
Send someone to Home Depot
Quoted from screaminr:I haven't heard of any issues with American Pinball playfields ( but I haven't looked )
nor Spooky's & CGC's
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