While they are in production you can buy them. Generally through a distributor. After they go out of production you will often see them with places like GAP, marco, etc.

Just check the cab for separation to make sure it wasn't part of those issues

I think your going a bit far here now.

What's Sterns P&L for the past 5 years? Are we sure the cost increases are for more profits? Maybe some of it is COGS have increased. Like OPEX from hiring a lot or talented people, mfg cost increasing, wage increases, etc. I'm not saying I know but I doubt you do to either.

Let's not talk coil mechs here being what makes the cost of a game. It's part of it but there are a ton of variables in the mix. Looking at the games I own, the Maiden Prem is pretty dang loaded compared to my other games. More than my Met LE and Tron LE of the Stern "good days".

It's also hard for me to read post about Sterns Quality being the worst but not also saying the produce the least expensive games too. Stern to me is the Ford/Chevy of the industry. Volume with an effort for quality but not 100% focused on it. You want that you have to step up to the Lincoln/Cadillac branding which cost more money.

I'm not saying there aren't QC issues there and I do agree things need to improve and people need to get taken care of but it does feel a bit overbearing with some of the accusation from especially the last couple of pages.

Am I a Stern fan boy? Maybe, I prefer to own them as I like their rules and game play over the other mfgs at the moment but I also love all the other mfgs. The older games just dont have the depth to keep me engaged long term at home thus I play them on location vs buy them.

You lost me at Motor Trend. You know that's an advertised paid company right? That is why they are so biased...

I used a simple analogy. Sorry you didnylt like the brands chosen but that was never the point. I compared the lower end mass producer with a higher end lower production company. Kind of like Stern (Chevy) and JJP (Cadillac). Have you ever owned a Cadillac or just read what paid writers tell you? There service is where that extra money comes from. Still issues with the vehicles but getting them taken care of is simple because of there service standards, kind of like JJP.

On a side note, If I want an under powered or crap on mpg SUV/Truck I'll go Toyata again. Those were the worst I've owned and outside of my Dodges were in the shop almost as much as they were driven. My experience is with multiple 4 runners....

MET = PF QC issues. Was the first I recall when stern had a wide spread issue. I believe LOTR and IM both had registration issues but not adhering issues.

The other PF's = those are from neglect. The threads where those images came from will show that. There is also an operator documenting their ST with (I think) 30k plays now. PF looks near perfect.

Damn, I miss the Rangers of the early 90's. Loved that Truck too. We had a step side in red. Looked almost like the baywatch trucks.

I had this on my BOP repo PF. It was one of the first runs and had some touch-ups done. The PF basically had overspray in the inserts. I took a small art paintbrush and some fresh clearcoat and applied it to the bottom of the inserts. It cleared them up perfectly. May be worth a shot for you as well. Start with an insert that's not super visible just in case it doesn't help though.

Guess it is time for me to eat some crow. I've been a long time supporter of Stern and their games. Local's call me a Stern snob as that is basically all I buy now with the exception of an EM here or there. I've bought 8 NIB (9 with the one I've paid for but haven't received since Jan) and I think I've finally hit my limit as well. My DeadPool has been a nightmare from the start. I've had to replace so much stuff on my 240 games played machine it's ridiculous. Most recent was the CPU. I have 3 spots on my game that were defective that have worn to the wood in one spot already and the other two have worn past the clear and started to get to the art already. My distributor (who's been great) has helped every step of the way but the replacement PF I just got.... I just can't spend the time to put it in as I planned. I've never seen a brand new PF where all of the inserts are ABOVE the rest of the PF. That's frustrating enough minus the grain making it look like the clear was brushed on with a 99 cent Wal-Mart paint brush. I just can't support them anymore which is hard for me to say since there are games I still want to buy

Couple of pics with my crappy camera phone. You don't need the light to see the issues in person but to get my phone to focus I had to get some glare on them. Any ambient light (like the GI of a pinball machine) brings these issue out very clearly. I know there are worst things but this feels silly to me for a brand new PF. I can't help but think that after a couple thousand games those inserts will start to look like the fish of an old bad Fishtales PF.

First picture - shows the grain and clear issues. Also shows the insert which looks like the clear just settled. If that was the issue I could live with it (not be happy but live with it), but it's actually above the PF.

Second picture - Looking at DeadPool's eyes, hopefully this shows how all the inserts look in the game and how they are raised.

This PF was stamped as December 19 and also has a CV stamp on it. Guessing the CV is whom either QCed it or made it.

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I think it will be up to your definition of a PF issue. I see that a couple people disagree with my definition based off a previous post, which is fine as that is their right. But, I still define a game with PF issues as one without a smooth finish. I haven't heard or seen of anyone with a 2020 PF having pooling issue and I doubt we will since the clear has been significantly reduced. Not 2020 but my December 13th, 2019 DP PF has a very wavy and grainy finish and 100% of the inserts are slightly above the rest of the PF. You can visibly see it and your fingernail will hit it if you run your finger along the finish (kind of like how auto details use their fingernail to judge the depth of a scratch). IMHO opinion this PF is defective. Whether others agree with that or not is up to them though but will skew the responses to the question at hand.

Reposting pics here for reference.

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Honestly not sure. My maiden PF looks exactly the same. I don't know if it was in the sanding process or if the wood was still holding moister. Does seem to be random though as I've seen a lot of beautiful PF's coming out as well. I've heard talk about multiple mfg's making the PF's which would make sense as it does seem to be batch to batch on if you get the grain effect or a smooth PF.

I bought Maiden through the rewards program so I've king of felt guilty complaining about it since I already got a good discount on it NIB. That's probably not the right mentality but it's how I've lived with it. I got DP after Maiden and my DP has been quite a bit of a lemon. At 248 plays I had a 2 inch section worn to the wood and 2 other spots already into the primer. I'm also on my 4th CPU (fingers crossed this one is the last as I think the issue is resolved) as well as a couple other minor issues. I bought DP through my normal distributor and he's been helping the whole way. I don't really want to air to much dirty laundry with the game or the process to get where I'm at now so I'll leave it with he's doing his best to make things right and I'm confident we will get there.

My maiden isn't worn. It just has the same clear and insert problem my replacement deadpool playfield has.

We believe deadpool sustained the damage it did (to break into wood) from an improperly installed ramp where they also forgot the mylar. The other two spots are bumps (like you would get from to long of a screw) to the left of the little deadpool shot that get hit hard by the ball when making a wolverine or snikt shot.

Just a confirmation. Does your Tron LE pf have a silver boarder (LE) around the inserts or are they colored (PRO)? I ask this as the Tron LE PF's got a thicker clear than the pro's and it is possible your game had a PF swap done with a Pro PF. I'm just curious as my Tron LE PF is beautiful. I bought it from a collector that never played it (had less than 200 plays total) and with a nice clean, polish and wax it's pretty dang good. My friends LE was the same but the two pro's I've played diffidently have shown a much duller PF.

Does your PF look like mine? Mines got a pretty good shine to it. Take a peak at the reflection of the ramp lights.

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Your Kiss will most diffidently have a thicker clear than your Tron. Stern started making thicker and thicker clear coated games over several years. When the pooling issue happened they went back to the think clear from what I can tell (My JP, Maiden and DP all have much thinner clear than my GOT for instance. The clear of my JP, Maiden and DP all have the same thickness that my TFLE.

Not so sure I can be there with you on this. My AC/DC had tons of dimples. They weren't real noticeable due to the huge insert in the middle of the game and my Tron very much has dimples. Quite honestly it's has just as many as all my other games. The only game in my collection that I don't see any dimples on is my MET but if I get real close in the right light I can see them there as well. I think a lot of it has to do with the art and lighting on how noticeable it may be. I will never argue that there are some PF's out there that dimple more than others as I've seen some just about ridiculous BM66, Munster's and even a WOZ but it just feels more like discrepancies in the batches of wood being made into PF's.

For instance - Here is my Tron at players position. You really don't notice much. But if you zoom in (like most of the pictures that are posted) on the same exact picture you clearly see the face of a golf ball.

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It is. That is because the clear is dimpled. I wish I still had my AC/DC prem as it was clear as could be on that game that the clear dimples too. Which is why I feel some of Stern's newer games can look so much worse as the clear is much thicker. The dimple on the wood and clear combined makes it deeper plus the clear being thicker like that will exaggerate the negative appearance.

Dimpling is diffidently an issue with some games but I personally don't think it's really that big of an issue. What get's me (and why I even participate in this thread) are the:
- Ghosting (seems to have been resolved) - This was more during the GB and Spiderman Remake timelines but did trail into some later releases. Haven't really seen it in the past couple of years though.
- Pooling (seems to have been resolved) - I do think this was a combination of two things. Poor adherence to the PF but also exaggerated by the thick clear MFG's started putting on games.
- Graining (still a MAJOR issue) - It's really hard to tell what causes this. At first I thought it was piss poor clear but in the 3 PF's that I own with it all three are smooth to the tough (excluding popped inserts). It really looks like the wood was still retaining moister when it was printed and dried before the clear was applied thus locking in that graining. If it was just the clear you could sand it down and respray for a nice appearance. My 3 PF's that wouldn't work.
- Warpage (something not spoken about much here but seems to be fairly common to). I have two PF's that are off by about 2 degrees from side to side. To further explain. If you put a level in the middle of the PF the left and right side of your level will be off the surface. If you rock the level back and forth I get a total of a 4 degree difference. Divide that by 2 and that is where I get the 2 degree difference. I don't think most even notice something like this if you are a casual player or especially someone not tuned in on nudges in the outlanes but it is real clear if you are tuned into your games like that. Both of my games with this "feature" are outlane drain monsters as the balls literally feed to the outlanes. Not to start the next dimplegate but I'd be curious how many of you own games with this "feature" put a level on your game just above the slings that is a foot long and see if it lays flat. If you can rock it back and forth they have it to. Word of the wise, don't check for this as this is one of those ignorance is bliss moments...

Not to stir the pot but I'm just tired of being quite at this point thus why I added that particular one to the thread. I'll speak as professionally as possible to share what I'm seeing to anyone that ask to try and keep a cool line of communication but I'm just about fed up. Here is my brand me JP Prem that I waited 6 months for.

If I'm just being to picky, let me know your thoughts as it could just be my expectations. I can deal with a lot and feel like I have a lot of patience with minor defects but I'd much rather have a pooled PF or even wood graining than the warp PF since it does indeed make the game play different.

***Edited as this isn't really directed at anyone specifically. I just quoted what I did to maintain the train of thought on the warp PF conversation.***

I'd love for you to explain this logic on how any of that could make the center of a PF be higher than both outlanes. It's a convex surface. Your argument only makes sense if my problem is getting a game with a flat PF level.

I guess I could do that. That video was meant for Stern and I didn't want there to be concern with the quality or flatness of the surface of my level. Glass is level thus why I used it as my only goal was to show that my level has a flat surface.

Yes, I can tell the difference. It's pretty noticeable to me.

Stern asked for pictures with coins under the level to identify the amount of warpage. Looks like about a dime thickness. Not huge but still effects game play. I'll keep the group advised on what is said.
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I can appreciate that. If I am I'm sure that will come out in the wash. I just know I've owned 20 games, 14 of which Stern, 1 JJP, 1 Bally, 2 Williams, 1 Sonic and 1 Data East and only 2 of them have had a convex playfield. Ironically both are Spike (so newer Sterns). Maybe I've been lucky up till late but my experience has been with flat PF's.

I have a DP one too on order and hopefully a JP (if my warped PF case gets approved). I'm betting none of us get them until they go out of production. My reasoning for this. I just got my JP Prem a couple weeks ago. The PF date is stamped as 2/20. That just tells me they have stock for production games but not for replacements. I'm not sure their policy but I'm making the assumption (and yes I know what that normally means) that they only set aside a small % of parts for warrantee/replacement per batch of product and the rest goes to new builds. Honestly, I wouldn't disagree with that approach anyways. With that assumption I just think most of the replacements will come as the demand for the games dwindle.

It may also be part of how bad the original is as well. Someone with cosmetic defects that warrantee a replacement may get put behind someone with physical issues with their PF.

Who really know. As much heat as Stern gets for their support (in a lot of cases rightfully slow) they do come through on their commitments, while sometimes taking a long time to do so. So, I'd say it's safe you'll get your PF but it may be a while.

For my Deadpool I had 100% intention of doing the PF swap but the PF they sent me is worse than what is in the game now (minus the wear spots to the wood). They are supposed to be exchanging my replacement though for which I do plan to do the swap and hang the old one on my game room wall as art.

That's the first time I've heard this from anyone on an unpopulated PF. I sure hope they don't take this route with me on my replacement DP or JP PF (assuming they replace the defective one). If so, then they will have to either pay me to do the swap (at my hourly rate) or send a tech. I'm OK doing it myself if I keep the old one as the wall art feels like compensation for my time doing the swap. If I have to send it back then I'm working for free to fix a defective product in the first place, which I'm not OK with.

Agreed here. I'm actually really surprised that Stern hasn't taken advantage of this possible business opportunity here to just sell populated PF's for their new titles. Not sure how many of you have pulled a Spike PF but it's stupid easy. This could be a win/win for Stern. They have a stock of populated PF that they send for warrantee PF issues, when the old one comes back in they have an employee or two swap the PF and can then sell that assembly for a slight discount (remanufactured unity). Then they could also sell new populated PF's. Think of how many people want the latest and greatest but don't have the space for another game. You could easily store several Populated PF's in the same space as a machine or even just 1 under an existing game. Not to mention the accessories market for storage options.

There is a 3rd option now apparently. They just ghost you. I've sent multiple messages to Chas and Patrick over the last couple weeks for updates on my JP Prem warped PF. ZERO response to my last couple of emails. Went like this:
- Distributor - My PF is warped, what can we do to fix it? (June 26th)
- Immediate message to Stern asking for advise. (June 26th)
- Stern immediately replies asking for pictures. (June 26th)
- I make and send a video and send it to them. (June 26th)
- They respond quickly stating the video doesn't help. Take pictures with coins under level so they can see how warped it is. (June 26th)
- I respond same day with those pictures showing a dime fits under my level to make things flat. (June 26th)
- Stern responds stating they will add this pictures to my ticket (June 26th)
- ZERO correspondence since then. My last ask for an update was July 13th

It's not like I've spent $20K in the past 12 months on new games or something. I sold some stuff and games as I wanted DP, Maiden and JP. I really want Elvira and TMNT too and planned to sell my METLE to help fund those two purchases. Needless to say, my MET is not going up for sale any time soon....

They just don't care anymore. Here is what I sent them this AM. We will see what comes from that. If not, I guess I'll have to take the next step and get my attorney involved. I really don't want to go that route but I refuse to sit back quietly and not get what I paid for. Sure, it may cost me more in the long run doing that but I'm at the point now that I'd be willing to go that route out of principle alone.

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Nah, he is my distributor since it was a rewards purchase which is another reason why I'm so surprised of the lack of response to my concerns. I've been trying to be as polite and helpful as possible but not sure how much longer I can do that. I actually normally wouldn't share an e-mail even but with what I'm reading hear I felt I should share.