(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

26 days ago



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  • Latest reply 1 hour ago by PanzerFreak
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There are 1458 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 30.
#1 26 days ago

So is this just the new normal? Pooled and chipping clear around posts on playfields, and playfield clearcoat that is so soft that they will wear quickly and can be dimpled with a fingernail? JJP has had this happening extensively on POTC and now Wonka, and Stern had this happen on GOTG, beatles, batman, and most recently now Jurassic Park 2. (The pooling matters because eventually that clear will start to chip or wear prematurely) People have had the chipping happen in the first 100 games. These are also not in the minority, it seems that the majority of pins of these titles have these issues. Now some pins of these titles are absent of this issue, but it appears a majority of the pins of each of these titles seems to be affected based upon reading through the threads for these pins. Pretty wide spread issue.

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#2 26 days ago

Good god

#3 26 days ago

Damn man. Maybe stay away from nib to see what happens if anything

#4 26 days ago

Sounds like this issue is occurring only on Mirco produced playfields which JJP uses exclusively and Stern uses for some of their playfields. That may be why the issue isn't occurring as often on Stern games since they use other playfield manufacturers.

In regards to timing for when the issue began my best best guess is late summer 2018 when Pirates started to ship. Dialed In's produced prior to Pirates used Mirco playfields but didn't have clear pooling around posts or post chipping. Something changed with Mirco playfields during the summer of 2018 and from what I can tell they are still being made the same way.

Overall this issue is unacceptable and the last thing owners of a NIB pin should have to worry about while paying record high prices is playfield quality. Want to charge top dollar for these games? Ok but then offer top quality.

#5 26 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Sounds like issue is occurring only on Mirco produced playfields which JJP uses exclusively and Stern uses for some of their playfields? That may be why the issue isn't occurring as often on Stern games since they use other playfield manufacturers.
In regards to timing for when the issue began my best best guess is late summer 2018 when Pirates started to ship. Dialed In's produced prior to Pirates used Mirco playfields but didn't have clear pooling around posts or post shipping. Something changed with Mirco playfields during the summer of 2018.

GOTG I think pre-dates POTC. I would love to know if Mirco was in fact used for the stern pins having the issue.

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#6 26 days ago

I have absolutely no desire to buy anything NIB anymore.

#7 26 days ago

As I took the JP2 pic above, I’ll keep checking on that machine. Another thing taking a beating is the post protecting the upper flipper.

#8 26 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

GOTG I think pre-dates POTC. I would love to know if Mirco was in fact used for the stern pins having the issue.

GOTG was announced in October of 2017 but is still being made. The picture of the GOTG with this issue was likely made sometime between summer 2018 and now. That's assuming the playfield in the pic was made by Mirco.

#9 26 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

GOTG was announced in October of 2017 but is still being made. The picture of the GOTG with this issue was likely made sometime between summer 2018 and now.

I have a Maiden Pro built in early April 2018 which has some pooling around posts, so it was happening before Summer.

#10 26 days ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I have a Maiden Pro built in early April 2018 which has some pooling around posts, so it was happening before Summer.

Good to know. If this issue occurs on Stern games it seems limited to pooling versus chipping that is occurring on some JJP games. Has anyone seen a Stern game with post chipping made in the past two years?

#11 26 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Has anyone seen a Stern game with post chipping made in the past two years?

Friends IMDN purchased around same time had pooling then easily chipped.
Cover to limit it, but same potential outcome after a beating with a steel ball.

Thought Stern decided to move entire pf QC in house after what happened with GB.

#12 26 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Good to know. If this issue occurs on Stern games it seems limited to pooling versus chipping that is occurring on some JJP games. Has anyone seen a Stern game with post chipping made in the past two years?

I saw it on a GOTG pro too yea. The pooling quickly turned to chipping. So it does happen, I just don't know how often.

#13 26 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

I have absolutely no desire to buy anything NIB anymore.

same, I have felt this way for years now. stinks, but I will just buy used and make sure everything is good first.

#14 26 days ago

Rumor has it that JJP playfields are made in China from what I've heard recently although they do use Microplayfields too. Maybe their CE models use Microplayfields and then China for the other models.

As for Stern I've seen it most recently on Deadpool and Munsters. Same crap! For $8k+ you would think they'd get this crap under control.

Heck all of my Bally/Williams 90's era pins are all in excellent condition with no chipping or pooling around the posts.

#15 26 days ago
Quoted from Chicoman:

Rumor has it that JJP playfields are made in China from what I've heard recently although they do use Microplayfields too. Maybe their CE models use Microplayfields and then China for the other models.

What?! First I've heard of this. Can anyone else confirm?

#16 26 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Good to know. If this issue occurs on Stern games it seems limited to pooling versus chipping that is occurring on some JJP games. Has anyone seen a Stern game with post chipping made in the past two years?

my game had a small piece of clear chip up, but luckily the artwork didn't come up with it. The issue hasn't gotten any worse in the past year and Stern sent me an unpopulated playfield that I could swap in at a later date if it does get worse. I'm happy with the resolution and the service provided by Stern. It hasn't altered the enjoyment of my game one bit and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Stern in the future.

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#17 26 days ago
Quoted from Chicoman:

Rumor has it that JJP playfields are made in China from what I've heard recently although they do use Microplayfields too. Maybe their CE models use Microplayfields and then China for the other models.

I think it has got to the point where customers are going to want to know where/who they get their playfields done before they purchase. And Stern and JJP will likely need disclose that information proactively.

17
#18 26 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

I think it has got to the point where customers are going to know where/who they get their playfields done before they purchase.

Until it's a "sick theme bro."

#19 26 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

I think it has got to the point where customers are going to want to know where/who they get their playfields done before they purchase. And Stern and JJP will likely need disclose that information proactively.

The problem is, as of now, neither manufacturer has responded in any official way about these issues.

#20 26 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Until it's a "sick theme bro."

Good point, our zealous desire to buy NIB pinball machines despite high cost and PF issues may very well prevent a real resolution from the manufactures.

#21 26 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

So is this just the new normal? Pooled and chipping clear around posts on playfields, and playfield clearcoat that is so soft that they will wear quickly and can be dimpled with a fingernail? JJP has had this happening extensively on POTC and now Wonka, and Stern had this happen on GOTG, beatles, batman, and most recently now Jurassic Park 2. (The pooling matters because eventually that clear will start to chip or wear prematurely) People have had the chipping happen in the first 100 games. These are also not in the minority, it seems that the majority of pins of these titles have these issues. Now some pins of these titles are absent of this issue, but it appears a majority of the pins of each of these titles seems to be affected based upon reading through the threads for these pins. Pretty wide spread issue.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image]

C'mon everyone, we all know how capitalism works, don't we? ... ever increasing profit margins and ever increasing cut corners and exclusions all while the price rises. Nothing unexpected, they don't make 'em like they used to. Real quality wood, and taking the time and care required for superior quality product have gone to the wayside, so that things can continue on the essential growth curve! . Capitalism is just the best isn't it!

I made the choice never to buy another new in box stern after the horrendous dimpling that happened to my n.i.b. ACDC Prem VE. It warranted a replacement Decent playfield in my opinion, but I was brushed of by the stern dealer along with the likes of the man Steve himself who claimed it was "normal". Besides if the playfield was replaced it would just be the same s#it quality p/f to replace it. I sold the POS, I would get another as I think it's a great game, but I will buy an original run that has a playfield made with more care and decent hard wood. Also bonus get a propper backbox latch, backbox, and real lockdown reciever. Stern especially have taken Cheap and Nasty to the Next level from all that I've seen. They out do everyone else for cheap, by leagues. What operator is going to be keen to buy a new JP2 that does not eat the ball? . It's the main attraction and what everyone expects from JP... may as well keep the old one or buy a Premium... or was that the plan... less pro's?

Venting sequence complete!

#22 26 days ago

Is there are simple and cheap way home owners can deal with this?

Touch up with clear nail polish or something?

#23 26 days ago

gonna need a dedicated forum section for these nib pf issue threads soon!

#24 26 days ago

I hope we don't need a whole new sub forum lol

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#25 26 days ago
Quoted from russdx:

gonna need a dedicated forum section for these nib pf issue threads soon!

There is a dedicated forum for this. It's called Pinside.

#26 26 days ago

I’ve have had slingshot post chipping on IMDN and TNA.

#27 26 days ago

NIBBA meeting...

Hello, my name is Bob, and I am a NIB buyer

#28 26 days ago

Just steer clear of anything that has a "Mirco" label on the playfield. Problem solved.

#29 26 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Is there are simple and cheap way home owners can deal with this?
Touch up with clear nail polish or something?

In some cases, possibly, but what’s been happening is the ink has been lifting too.

#30 26 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Just steer clear of anything that has a "Mirco" label on the playfield. Problem solved.

Not solved, if you believe Mirco’s post where he says he doesn’t supply PF’s for Stern.

#31 26 days ago

What would it cost for Stern or any of these pinball manufacturers to go back to making Diamond Plate Coated Playfields like Williams use to do? It's only an automotive urethane clear coating that is done to the final playfield to make it more durable and add years to the life of the playfield. It can't add that much to the cost of a damn machine. I mean seriously for $8000+ you should get the best money can buy!

It would also probably minimize playfield dimpling also.

#32 26 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Just steer clear of anything that has a "Mirco" label on the playfield. Problem solved.

Well unfortunately we don’t know for sure if mirco is supplying stern. It’s a guess since we know mirco is supplying JJP and JJP has bad clear issues. But we could be wrong about stern and mirco.

#33 26 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

I think it has got to the point where customers are going to want to know where/who they get their playfields done before they purchase. And Stern and JJP will likely need disclose that information proactively.

CPR and Mirco each have their issues. You'd only be choosing what kinds of issues your game will present with. Although, seems like with Mirco it's just that they don't allow time for proper curing. On the other hand you cant wave a wand and magically make your CPR go "poof" and become decent hard wood.

-6
#34 26 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Just steer clear of anything that has a "Mirco" label on the playfield. Problem solved.

I would "steer clear" of CPR unless you're fine with having a playfield that is more heavily spotted than an oversized golfball.

Doesn't leave much then does it. I guess there is room then for a new Reputable playfield manufacturer to "clean up".

#35 26 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

CPR and Mirco each have their issues. You'd only be choosing what kinds of issues your game will present with. Although, seems like with Mirco it's just that they don't allow time for proper curing. On the other hand you cant wave a wand and magically make your CPR go "poof" and become decent hard wood.

There are people who has bought the spare mirco-playfields. Had them for months and still soft as butter.
So, how long does it take for a mirco playfield to harden? 10 years?

#36 26 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

There are people who has bought the spare mirco-playfields. Had them for months and still soft as butter.
So, how long does it take for a mirco playfield to harden? 10 years?

6-12 months apparently. ... Longer to be safe. Cant remember where I read that, but it was given advice. (Mirco)

There is no possible way these manufacturers are allowing their new releases to cure for anywhere near this amount of time.

#37 26 days ago

We had an AC/DC VE Pro that had clearcoat welling up around posts. Art and clear cracked off around two posts. We were sent a clearcoat repair kit. We also have some clear that came welled up on our Maiden at home. It's not as bad as the AC/DC and hopefully will never crack off...Dear Stern, I love your games, please get this worked out. If this is a supplier not letting the clear cure long enough, SLOW DOWN.

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#38 26 days ago
Quoted from woody76:

same, I have felt this way for years now. stinks, but I will just buy used and make sure everything is good first.

My sentiments, exactly.

#39 26 days ago

Another problem, like Law pointed out, is what if Stern makes that license pin you have been wanting? Or finally makes the vault you have been waiting for...or JJP's GNR is amazing!

It will be hard to resist....but...must...resiiiiiiiii - "So, anyone know a good distributor in my area?"

Like Gleason said "You can think about it....but DON'T do it!"

#40 26 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Another problem, like Law pointed out, is what if Stern makes that license pin you have been wanting? Or finally makes the vault you have been waiting for...of JJP's GNR is amazing! It will be hard to resist....but...must...resiiiiiiiii - "So anyone know a good distributor in my area?"
"

No worries mate! ... just unbox it, pull the rubbers and loosen all the posts then pack it up again. .... Have the unboxing in 12 months time when it should have been released! (just remember to firmly, but not too firmly, tighten all the posts back down again Lol)

#41 26 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Well unfortunately we don’t know for sure if mirco is supplying stern. It’s a guess since we know mirco is supplying JJP and JJP has bad clear issues. But we could be wrong about stern and mirco.

There is nothing to say companies other than Mirco don't have clear on playfields that is not fully cured as well, and then the manufacturer is installing the green playfields into games prematurely. I'd still prefer the Mirco for the wood hardness, and less pronounced dimpling. CPR's clear probably isn't cured fully either. Same problem, different supplier.

#42 26 days ago

There are pins being made today though that do not have this issue, which makes this all the more aggravating. Where are the PFs coming from for the pins that don't have the issue?

#43 26 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

6-12 months apparently. ... Longer to be safe. Cant remember where I read that, but it was given advice. (Mirco)
There is no possible way these manufacturers are allowing their new releases to cure for anywhere near this amount of time.

It should not take this long no matter what. Prior to GB, does anyone really think Stern was sitting on playfields for the next hotness for 6-12 months before assembling and selling them?

I have cleared a few older games with a rather generic PPG Omni clear, not even the one suggested by Vid, and they do not fail the thumb nail test after 2 weeks. One game is part of a project that isn't playable yet, but the other game has a few hundred plays and is doing just fine.

There are products out there that will protect the way we expect without warping and chipping. These manufacturers need to get this figured out, even if it's a few pennies more a game. The playfield is the most important part of the game.

#44 26 days ago

Agreed, there are pins made today that are fine and I gaurantee their PFs aren't sitting for 6-12 months before being made.

#45 26 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Agreed, there are pins made today that are fine and I gaurantee their PFs aren't sitting for 6-12 months before being made.

which ones? CGC? I can confirm my Houdini does not have this issue, although no title is immune from some games having an issue of some sort

#46 26 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

which ones? CGC? I can confirm my Houdini does not have this issue, although no title is immune from some games having an issue of some sort

CGC, also Munsters, BKSOR, ST Vaults etc no reported issues that I have seen.

#47 26 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

CGC, also Munsters, BKSOR, ST Vaults etc no reported issues that I have seen.

BKSOR and Munsters also seem to be lesser sellers, so may not be a great sample set

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#48 26 days ago

The fact that neither JJP, Stern, or Mirco has even commented on the issue is troubling.

#49 26 days ago

There is a myth that old glass window panes are thicker at the bottom because of the glass "flowing" to the bottom over the decades. Not true but I wonder if this is a possibility with clear coated playfields. Will gravity cause the clear coat to slowly pool downward until it hardens?

#50 26 days ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

The fact that neither JJP, Stern, or Mirco has even commented on the issue is troubling.

But not unexpected - they can't address this issue without exposing some degree of public validation or denial. Which they would like to avoid at all 'costs'.

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