(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 9,207 posts
  • 704 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 41 days ago by PinMonk
  • Topic is favorited by 177 Pinsiders
  • Topic is sticky in its sub-forum

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

B47B97EA-8C60-4AB2-82E1-941265D53DCF (resized).jpeg
E51185C3-D30B-46BA-ABE3-0D2C1472D3FF (resized).jpeg
AC060B74-B84E-4C3C-9A87-454A9BFB2FC5 (resized).jpeg
Pinside_forum_7592500_0 (resized).jpg
Pinside_forum_7592500_2 (resized).jpg
Pinside_forum_7592500_1 (resized).jpg
IMG_20221008_211349 (resized).jpg
Capture2 (resized).PNG
IMG20221008031914 (resized).jpg
IMG20221008032533 (resized).jpg
IMG20221008033119 (resized).jpg
IMG20221008034651 (resized).jpg
20220919_071252 (resized).jpg
IMG_20220820_032754 (resized).jpg
IMG_20220820_025439 (resized).jpg
20210920_172949 (resized).jpg

There are 9,207 posts in this topic. You are on page 98 of 185.
#4851 4 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

I think he is referring more to the build standards. Between the ghosted playfields, separating cabinets, chipping playfields, pooling clear coat, single use coil stops, flickering sling / ball return GI and glaring widespread individual game build issues out of the box (Stranger Things lock post / one way gate, Munsters Spot optos, JP upper flipper post, etc...) along with the much debated cratering / dimpling playfields...I think anyone would be hard pressed to argue they have raised any standards there since TWD.

Since i've purchased just about all of them and seen the progression and regression from game to game, I'd say yeah, I damn sure don't want to go back to TWD.

Every game has issues. If YOU or anybody else thinks you can build em better, knock yourselves out. Until then, I'll enjoy what i see and purchase.

As for caring about quality control and fixing warranty issues, i was also right there in the middle of the GB pf mess. Did i get a new one? Nope. I've got some minor ghosting, no big deal to me.

A ton of people got repopulated PF's.

IF it really mattered that much, Stern would have never sold another game after GB. Think about that one.

#4852 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

He said he thinks the reason behind the complaining is the price of the games. I'm just saying theres more to it then that.
Iceman is one of my favorite people in the world just like you are, but I do not agree with him that stern is making better quality games right now than they did a few years ago. My TWD and the GOT that I just sold are WAY more solid and have better quality playfields than my newer games do.
For the money they are charging for these games we shouldnt even be talking about how bad of quality these games are. They should be top notch quality!

I get what you are saying brother Terry!

What i'm saying though is my TWD pf is cratered to shit and nearly pounded even because i played it so much. The pops setup in that game wreaked havoc. I see no difference honestly in any other game i've got and JP and Elvira are better than all of them. Now i've got some Munsters pooling and GB minor ghosting but its not anything major.

With "higher price" i'm saying people are less tolerant because we WILL lose money when we go to sell them. I get it.

Let's get you some new PF's!

#4853 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Since i've purchased just about all of them and seen the progression and regression from game to game, I'd say yeah, I damn sure don't want to go back to TWD.
Every game has issues. If YOU or anybody else thinks you can build em better, knock yourselves out. Until then, I'll enjoy what i see and purchase.
As for caring about quality control and fixing warranty issues, i was also right there in the middle of the GB pf mess. Did i get a new one? Nope. I've got some minor ghosting, no big deal to me.
A ton of people got repopulated PF's.
IF it really mattered that much, Stern would have never sold another game after GB. Think about that one.

Never said I could build them better, I can't. And yes, most are fun to play...that's not the question. Question was build quality. I maintain a high traffic route here that buys all the newest Stern games, including the premium games like Elvira and Beatles, so I have seen them all first hand and I have had to deal with fixing them all first hand. I know other operators that do the same. We talk, share stories and information to help each other out. Based on that first hand knowledge, I would unequivocally agree that build quality has gone markedly down from just a few years ago.

#4854 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I get what you are saying brother Terry!
What i'm saying though is my TWD pf is cratered to shit and nearly pounded even because i played it so much. The pops setup in that game wreaked havoc. I see no difference honestly in any other game i've got and JP and Elvira are better than all of them. Now i've got some Munsters pooling and GB minor ghosting but its not anything major.
With "higher price" i'm saying people are less tolerant because we WILL lose money when we go to sell them. I get it.
Let's get you some new PF's!

The dimpling doesn’t bother me any but pooling and chipping certainly does. As far as my two playfields go, i know that i am probably not going to be satisfied with their resolution but to be almost completely ignored for 8 months pisses me off. I think I will give Pablo a call tomorrow since I haven’t heard anything back from Stern.

#4855 4 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

Never said I could build them better, I can't. And yes, most are fun to play...that's not the question. Question was build quality. I maintain a high traffic route here that buys all the newest Stern games, including the premium games like Elivra and Beatles, so I have seen them all first hand and I have had to deal with fixing them all first hand. Based on that first hand knowledge, I would unequivocally agree that build quality has gone markedly down from just a few years ago.

I hear you Les and understand what you are saying, i'm a HUO guy that doesn't care about some of the things you Ops do.

The Vegas guy seems to have a different experience with some of his games. Sterns pro's going strong after 25k plays with just waxing and cleaning and JJP's falling to pieces after 10k.

I'll never play 10k plays on any one game much less 20k in my lifetime, although i put several thousand plays on my TWD for sure

#4856 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

The dimpling doesn’t bother me any but pooling and chipping certainly does. As far as my two playfields fo, i know that i am probably not going to be satisfied with their resolution but to be almost completely ignored for 8 months pisses me off. I think I will give Pablo a call tomorrow since I haven’t heard anything back from Stern.

"pooling" and "chipping" is defective. Chipping especially, that's not acceptable and needs to be addressed. That would really piss me off too. 8 months is WAY too long. I'd feel the same way brother!

You know i'm after these whiny crybabies that bitch and don't even have a f ing game to rightly complain about.

A lot of those GB pf's were a chip fest. Remember poor KPG and his GB! That was one F ed up PF.

#4857 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member......

I wouldn't join any club that would stick a member where it don't belong.

#4858 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

"pooling" and "chipping" is defective. Chipping especially, that's not acceptable and needs to be addressed. That would really piss me off too. 8 months is WAY too long. I'd feel the same way brother!
You know i'm after these whiny crybabies that bitch and don't even have a f ing game to rightly complain about.
A lot of those GB pf's were a chip fest. Remember poor KPG and his GB! That was one F ed up PF.

I definitely remember the KPG playfield debacle lol. Holy sh*t how could anyone ever forget that? That was awesome!

#4859 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I hear you Les and understand what you are saying, i'm a HUO guy that doesn't care about some of the things you Ops do.
The Vegas guy seems to have a different experience with some of his games. Sterns pro's going strong after 25k plays with just waxing and cleaning and JJP's falling to pieces after 10k.
I'll never play 10k plays on any one game much less 20k in my lifetime, although i put several thousand plays on my TWD for sure

I agree, it's a different monster for ops. When a coil stop breaks or the Stranger Things up post jumps out of it's spot in home use, it's a few dollars, 15 minutes of effort if you know what you are doing and a mild inconvenience since you can't play the game.

For ops on the other hand, it's the game being down...sometimes for extended periods of time while waiting for a special part to come in, lost revenue, an unhappy location, a special trip to fix the issue, paying a tech to fix it and bad customer word of mouth. Most casual customers couldn't even tell you that Stern was the company that built the game, so they aren't going to blame them. The customers just assume that the op isn't maintaining the games and because of that they may or may not come back and/or put money in the games in the future. I understand things happen, but when that all happens for something as stupid as cheapening out on a $1 part coil stop or not testing your games for glaring potential issues...that's frustrating as hell and it's only been getting worse. I'm not putting JJP on a pedestal or anything else either. The operator I help has a weird loyalty (his words not mine) to Stern so he doesn't route any other companies games. I don't know first hand how those hold up on route, so I won't comment on those. That all may be changing soon though as he has been very unhappy with all the recent issues and downtime on Stern games so he is seriously considering branching out to another company for their next game.

-2
#4860 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

"pooling" and "chipping" is defective. Chipping especially, that's not acceptable and needs to be addressed. That would really piss me off too. 8 months is WAY too long. I'd feel the same way brother!
You know i'm after these whiny crybabies that bitch and don't even have a f ing game to rightly complain about.
A lot of those GB pf's were a chip fest. Remember poor KPG and his GB! That was one F ed up PF.

Are you familiar with the concept of two wrongs don't make a right?

You're suggesting I should OWN one of these pieces of shit machines so I can truly have an opinion on it? No thanks.

#4861 4 years ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

Are you familiar with the concept of two wrongs don't make a right?
You're suggesting I should OWN one of these pieces of shit machines so I can truly have an opinion on it? No thanks.

No, he's suggested he owns them all, and for the most part the most expensive models and doesn't give a shit what anybody else says. But, on the other hand, he sure seems to give a lot of shit to what anybody else says.

#4862 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Exactly right, when they raised the PRICE to where it sits today, some people like yourself moved to the sidelines.
But "lowering standards", that's where you are wrong imo. What standards? I'll go back to TWD i bought in 2014.
I see nothing but "raised standards" myself in so many areas.
The LCD is phenomenal, the artwork has been "raised" several notches, the video, sound and callouts have ALL been "raised", theme integration. Not to mention great themes and coding. So that BS don't fly TFA.
The issue is PRICE, the rest is a bunch of BS excuses.

Price and Value are two sides of the same coin. If the price goes up, the value should as well. You reference TWD. That was 6 years ago Ice. If you can’t acknowledge that Stern makes Pinballs now with cheaper materials and parts than they did then pop another top and have at it. But that BS don’t fly.

#4863 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The Vegas guy seems to have a different experience with some of his games. Sterns pro's going strong after 25k plays with just waxing and cleaning and JJP's falling to pieces after 10k.

There has to be mechs on the game for them to break Ice!

#4864 4 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

I think he is referring more to the build standards. Between the ghosted playfields, separating cabinets, elimination of real mirrored backglasses, peeling decals, chipping playfields, pooling clear coat, single use coil stops, fragile flipper buttons, flickering sling / ball return GI and glaring widespread individual game build issues out of the box (Stranger Things lock post / one way gate, Munsters Spot optos, JP upper flipper post, etc...) along with the much debated cratering / dimpling playfields...I think anyone would be hard pressed to argue they have raised any standards there since TWD.

Yup. And plastic aprons. And compare the wiring in a modern Stern to an old B/W. Hell, probably even to an old Stern. Like strands of hair. And of course, these unrepairable node boards, compared to the bullet proof - and fixable - SAM system.

-1
#4865 4 years ago

Hell charge me an extra 1000$ for a playfield thats near-indestructible. We know it's possible. Or charge 4500 out the door for a pro and you'd hear a lot less complaining about dimpling and chipping.

I want to buy NIB stern games because I like quite a lot of them quite a lot. But I want a different manufacturer to produce them and I want them to stop cutting their designers nuts off (cough elvira cough).

#4866 4 years ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

...and you'd hear a lot less complaining about dimpling and chipping.

Doubtful...

#4867 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Great, then don't put anything on it, including the shooter lane and see how that works out for you.

Works out fine when you make a great playfields.

My TSPP now has 3k of games on it, LOTRLE 2k, ToTAN… who knows I bought it off the local operator..

20200219_172558 (resized).jpg20200219_172558 (resized).jpg20200219_172823 (resized).jpg20200219_172823 (resized).jpg20200219_173359 (resized).jpg20200219_173359 (resized).jpg
#4868 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

WRONG! You are confused man. The drastic change is for the better in JP and Elvira with respect to overall quality and the pf. How do i know? I've bought most of the Stern pins since Ac/dc, my first one being a LOTRLE Nib.
Which, oh by the way, dimpled. And LOTRLE supposedly was the best clear job ever by Stern.
It's the most overblown hyped up nonsense EVER in pinball. LOL

my LOTRLe seems fine,very light dimples.

So I thought I would look at my B/W ToTAN. couldn't find any...

Star Wars pro...… I don't want to post what that looks like

20200219_172939 (resized).jpg20200219_172939 (resized).jpg20200219_173002 (resized).jpg20200219_173002 (resized).jpg20200219_173059 (resized).jpg20200219_173059 (resized).jpg20200219_173608 (resized).jpg20200219_173608 (resized).jpg20200219_173826 (resized).jpg20200219_173826 (resized).jpg
#4869 4 years ago

"I SPEND TONS OF MONEY ON THIS STUFF AND DON'T REALLY MIND WHEN IT STARTS TO FALL APART, AND IT'S JUST SILLY YOU DON'T FEEL THAT WAY, TOO!" Un-freakin-believable.

#4870 4 years ago
Quoted from Gribbs:

"I SPEND TONS OF MONEY ON THIS STUFF AND DON'T REALLY MIND WHEN IT STARTS TO FALL APART, AND IT'S JUST SILLY YOU DON'T FEEL THAT WAY, TOO!" Un-freakin-believable.

#4871 4 years ago

Was in the bowling alley the other day... no dimples in the lanes.. ... so they should be able to do the same for a small steel ball too imho

#4872 4 years ago
Quoted from DavidPinballWizz:

Was in the bowling alley the other day... no dimples in the lanes.. ... so they should be able to do the same for a small steel ball too i

It was most likely synthetic, if not, hard maple... They resurface wood ones every couple years

#4873 4 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

The real questions are:
1) Are the collectors who would normally buy new Stern/JJP machines buying less of them due to these issues?
2) Are the operators who would normally buy new Stern/JJP machines buying less of them due to these issues?

1. Yes, at least in my case. I worked my butt off to get into the IFPA top 1,000 so I could take advantage of their pricing. I have the money sitting in my account for a JP Premium. The key word is "sitting". I'm not buying a damn thing from them until they do something about my BM66.

2. Our operator has been buying every game off the line. He's told me that his locations are all requesting pinball. If he's buying them all, he must be making his money back.

#4874 4 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

1. Yes, at least in my case. I worked my butt off to get into the IFPA top 1,000 so I could take advantage of their pricing. I have the money sitting in my account for a JP Premium. The key word is "sitting". I'm not buying a damn thing from them until they do something about my BM66.
2. Our operator has been buying every game off the line. He's told me that his locations are all requesting pinball. If he's buying them all, he must be making his money back.

Yes, that's sort of my point. Even though a bunch of pinsiders may have stopped buying NIB Sterns, there are operators willing to take those machines (dimples and all). I doubt that a dimpled machine (or even a "cratered" one) earns much less than a good one. So, as far as Stern is concerned, all is good.

Now, maybe when those operators try to re-sell the machines after they've stopped earning, and find that the resale value of badly cratered machines is very low, things will change - but I doubt it.

#4875 4 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

The real questions are:
1) Are the collectors who would normally buy new Stern/JJP machines buying less of them due to these issues?
2) Are the operators who would normally buy new Stern/JJP machines buying less of them due to these issues?

For question 2, I know multiple operators who are buying less Stern games here locally. The one I work for only bought one Stranger Things where he would usually buy more than 1 for his other locations. The 1-2 kick in the nuts of Munsters and Black Knight didn't sit too well with him and the Stranger Things and Elvira issues out of the box might finally be the straw that breaks the camels back to get him to buy a CGC, JJP or other game next. There are a couple other ops here who were on the fence on Stranger Things because of how bad Munsters and Black Knight were for them too. They watched the widespread build issues come rolling in for Stranger Things and that made the decision easy for them to just stay out on that one. Case in point, we only have 5 Stranger Things (Pro-LEs) on route here now. Normally we have 12 plus of every new release, so things have been changing at least here locally. Will that keep trending down? Who knows, but Stern can't afford another stinker or game with mechanical issues out of the gate as their next game IMHO.

#4876 4 years ago

Was the peak of Stern games, quality wise around 2003 - 2004?

TSPP and LOTR were leagues ahead of the stuff being built now.

That said, most consumables aren't the same quality as they used to be.

All games have issues. Remember the shocking decals on KISS, the wrinkly decals on Transformers, cloudy window on AC/DC, split cabinets, ghosted inserts.... could go on and on.

Playfield issues are harder to ignore though, especially pooling and chipping.

Dimples - always been around but worse now. Harder and more expensive to find decent hardwood? Especially for Stern producing 15000 games a year.

No excuse for dimpled wrap ramp flaps on NSW though.

#4877 4 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

The 1-2 kick in the nuts of Munsters and Black Knight didn't sit too well with him. There are a couple other ops here who were on the fence on Stranger Things because of how bad Munsters and Black Knight were for them too.

Are you saying that Munsters and BKSOR were bad due to lack of earnings, or bad due to build quality (or both)?

As an operator, does the dimpling issue affect earnings on location or just affect re-sale value of the machine? I would think that most customers wouldn't even notice the dimpling (unless maybe it is really awful) until well after they have put in their money.

#4878 4 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Are you saying that Munsters and BKSOR were bad due to lack of earnings, or bad due to build quality (or both)?
As an operator, does the dimpling issue affect earnings on location or just affect re-sale value of the machine? I would think that most customers wouldn't even notice the dimpling (unless maybe it is really awful) until well after they have put in their money.

They are both bad primarily because of lack of earnings. They both have had their issues, the main ones being the Spot optos and the grandpa scoop switch on Munsters. It's annoying, but nothing major for the most part. The problem with those two games for operators is this. Munsters has shallow code which pinball players aren't interested in playing over and over, especially if they have other options of games to play. So the players don't play it. And with the theme, I know there are some older people here who absolutely love it...but reality is, very few people under 40 know or care who the Munsters are. Because of that, the casual / young crowd don't play it...once again especially if there are other options to play. No players and no casuals means it isn't making money. With Black Knight you have a theme that the players care about and code that is decent, but the layout is so bare and uninspired...especially for a hyped up 3rd game in a legendary pinball series. Players get board of it quickly because of that and switch to other games and then once again with the casual players they have no idea who or what the Black Knight is, so when it comes to putting money in a game they go with what they know...themes like Star Wars or Deadpool.

For operators I know, the dimpling isn't an issue for the most part. Batman 66 looked terrible, but other than that, players can't really see it under the glass unless they are really looking for it and it doesn't affect play, so they don't care. Unless it was really bad like Batman 66 was, it wouldn't affect resale and honestly most ops I know don't sell their games anyway. They keep them and rotate them around to other locations instead. When they eventually do go to sell, those ops deal with the same reliable people they know will be a quick and painless sale, not to someone who is going to nitpick everything and complain about things like dimples anyway.

#4879 4 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Was the peak of Stern games, quality wise around 2003 - 2004?
TSPP and LOTR were leagues ahead of the stuff being built now.
That said, most consumables aren't the same quality as they used to be.

TSPP and LOTR were plagued with playfield registration issues, pixelated artwork and buzzy flippers. I think the peak for Stern was during the SAM years until they made the move to the new factory and then switched to the newer clear coat. My 2012 ACDC Premium is about as flawless as it gets all around.

#4880 4 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Was the peak of Stern games, quality wise around 2003 - 2004?

My 1978 Stars has no dimples or cratering. And no pooling or peeling around any posts. But it seems they might have been using the same crappy inserts Gottlieb did that tended to dish a bit, although not as much.

It's drop target assemblies however, are far superior to the Ballys of that time.

#4881 4 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

They are both bad primarily because of lack of earnings. They both have had their issues, the main ones being the Spot optos and the grandpa scoop switch on Munsters. It's annoying, but nothing major for the most part. The problem with those two games for operators is this. Munsters has shallow code which pinball players aren't interested in, especially if they have other options of games to play. So the players don't play it. And with the theme, I know there are some older people here who absolutely love it...but reality is, very few people under 40 know or care who the Munsters are. Because of that, the casual / young crowd don't play it...especially if there are other options to play. No players and no casuals means it isn't making money. With Black Knight you have a theme that the players care about and code that is decent, but the layout is so bare and uninspired...especially for a hyped up 3rd game in a legendary pinball series. Players get board of it quickly because of that and switch to other games and then once again with the casual players they have no idea who or what the Black Knight is, so when it comes to putting money in a game they go with what they know...themes like Star Wars or Deadpool.
For operators I know, the dimpling isn't an issue for the most part. Batman 66 looked terrible, but other than that, players can't really see it under the glass unless they are really looking for it and it doesn't affect play, so they don't care. Unless it was really bad like Batman 66 was, it wouldn't affect resale and honestly most ops I know don't sell their games anyway. They keep them and rotate them around to other locations instead. When they eventually do go to sell, those ops deal with the same reliable people they know will be a quick and painless sale, not to someone who is going to nitpick everything and complain about things like dimples anyway.

Thanks, that's very interesting info from a perspective that most of us here don't have.

#4882 4 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Thanks, that's very interesting info from a perspective that most of us here don't have.

Here's some more fun inside info. Normally a game gets a 6 week + bump in earnings while people try out the new game and subsequent code updates. Then after that, the newer games usually float in the middle of earnings while people try out the next newest game or go back to their old favorites. Black Knight and Munsters did not even come close to a 6 week bump and Elvira barely made it a few weeks on top. Stranger Things despite all the initial mechanical issues is #1 so it is earning so far. With only 5 Stranger Things on route here now instead of the usual dozen or more of the newest title, that is no doubt helping the numbers for it at this location though since you can't find one everywhere. We'll see how long it lasts for. Here are the best to worst earners since Stranger Things arrived at my ops busiest location here...

Strangers Things
Star Wars
Jurassic Park
Elvira
Deadpool
Ghostbusters
Kiss
Black Knight: Sword of Rage
Munsters
Transformers

Transformers has been having reoccurring Megatron trough issues that get fixed and then show up again, so it has been turned off for extended periods of time. I have no doubt that if it was working correctly, it would have out earned both Munsters and Black Knight too. Pretty sad when a game like Transformers or Kiss from years ago that no one considers classics are out earning the newest expensive games.

#4883 4 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

Here's some more fun inside info. Normally a game gets a 6 week bump in earnings while people try out the new game and subsequent code updates. Then after that, the newer games usually float in the middle of earnings while people try out the next newest game or go back to their favorites. Black Knight and Munsters did not even come close to a 6 week bump and Elvira barely made it a few weeks on top. Stranger Things despite all the initial mechanical issues is #1 so it is earning so far. With only 5 Stranger Things on route here now instead of the usual dozen or more the newest title, that is no doubt helping the numbers for it at this location since you can't find one everywhere. We'll see how long it lasts for. Here are the best to worst earners since Stranger Things arrived at my ops busiest location here...
Strangers Things
Star Wars
Jurassic Park
Elvira
Deadpool
Ghostbusters
Kiss
Black Knight: Sword of Rage
Munsters
Transformers
Transformers has been having reoccurring Megatron trough issues that get fixed and then show up again, so it has been turned off for extended periods of time. I have no doubt that if it was working correctly, it would have out earned both Munsters and Black Knight too. Pretty sad when a game like Transformers or Kiss from years ago that no one considers classics are out earning the newest expensive games.

Interesting...I haven't gotten to play Stranger Things yet, it was out of order (and being worked on) when I went to the nearest place that has one. Surprised that Star Wars is still earning, as I found it to be quite boring (and I am a big original Star Wars fan) - I guess the license makes all the difference.

One of the few places nearby that has multiple machines, never seems to update the software (their BM66 is still running the code it shipped with). Do "regular" (non-pinside) customers ever realize that the software gets improved over time? How often do you think customers play the lame "early code" and then never go back to a machine since they have already decided that it sucks?

#4884 4 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Interesting...I haven't gotten to play Stranger Things yet, it was out of order (and being worked on) when I went to the nearest place that has one. Surprised that Star Wars is still earning, as I found it to be quite boring (and I am a big original Star Wars fan) - I guess the license makes all the difference.

Stranger Things was broken and being worked on...I'm shocked. Theme does matter. The little kids all play Star Wars since they know it and their parents know it. It's harmless as opposed to Deadpool and even Ghostbusters that can have a little adult edge to them.

Quoted from mbeardsley:

One of the few places nearby that has multiple machines, never seems to update the software (their BM66 is still running the code it shipped with). Do "regular" (non-pinside) customers ever realize that the software gets improved over time? How often do you think customers play the lame "early code" and then never go back to a machine since they have already decided that it sucks?

Most people don't unless they are told. We try to make sure that people know code was updated to give them incentive to try a game out again. It can be especially difficult to get people to play some games again when the code comes out so initially bad that people want nothing to do with the game anymore...here's looking at you Batman 66. I wish games had "New Code Version" signs on top like they did with the "Tournament Play" sign years ago. It would be nice to be able to flip up a normally folded down sign like that when there was a new code version to draw people's attention to it and hopefully get them to give it another shot.

#4885 4 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

Most people don't unless they are told. We try to make sure that people know code was updated to give them incentive to try a game out again. It can be especially difficult to get people to play some games again when the code comes out so initially bad that people want nothing to do with the game anymore...here's looking at you Batman 66. I wish games had "New Code Version" signs on top like they did with the "Tournament Play" sign years ago. It would be nice to be able to flip up a normally folded down sign like that when there was a new code version to draw people's attention to it and hopefully get them to give it another shot.

I really don't understand Stern's strategy of releasing games with such incomplete software. All it can do is give a game a bad reputation that will be hard to overcome. Even if the software turns out to be great later (sometimes MUCH later), lots of operators don't bother with updating and I imagine lots of customers have moved on by then.

Sure, Stern wants to get the machines out the door ASAP, but selling a crappy game early can be a lot worse than selling a completed game later. That's something I DO have some experience with.

#4886 4 years ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

Are you familiar with the concept of two wrongs don't make a right?
You're suggesting I should OWN one of these pieces of shit machines so I can truly have an opinion on it? No thanks.

What an idiotic statement. You now go in the trash bin

All I need to know about you was revealed in the Bricks thread and yet here you are

And btw, I’m not suggesting you buy anything I do give a F what you do

#4887 4 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I really don't understand Stern's strategy of releasing games with such incomplete software. All it can do is give a game a bad reputation that will be hard to overcome. Even if the software turns out to be great later (sometimes MUCH later), lots of operators don't bother with updating and I imagine lots of customers have moved on by then.
Sure, Stern wants to get the machines out the door ASAP, but selling a crappy game early can be a lot worse than selling a completed game later. That's something I DO have some experience with.

And yet Bricks is on “beta code” and shipping?

Btw, I have zero problem with them or anyone else doing that. I like the code progression

Very weak complaint

#4888 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And yet Bricks is on “beta code” and shipping?
Btw, I have zero problem with them or anyone else doing that. I like the code progression
Very weak complaint

I don't know what a "bricks" is...and you only like the "progression" because you get see it...many machines on location don't get updated, meaning lots of players only get to play the early/poor code - and then decide "this machine sucks".

#4889 4 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I don't know what a "bricks" is...and you only like the "progression" because you get see it...many machines on location don't get updated, meaning lots of players only get to play the early/poor code - and then decide "this machine sucks".

Don't worry...Iron Maiden was the second coming of Christ, until Duggie sold it.

#4890 4 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I don't know what a "bricks" is...and you only like the "progression" because you get see it...many machines on location don't get updated, meaning lots of players only get to play the early/poor code - and then decide "this machine sucks".

He calls Rick and Morty “bricks”

#4891 4 years ago
Quoted from Oaken:

He calls Rick and Morty “bricks”

Don't get it. Thought it was Supreme that had the bricks.

#4892 4 years ago

Lets put out another title instead of addressing all of these obvious issues on the previous ones first!!! Have pinheads even been asking for this??
87177700_10157416915872961_5632960277126316032_n (resized).jpg87177700_10157416915872961_5632960277126316032_n (resized).jpg

#4893 4 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

Lets put out another title instead of addressing all of these obvious issues on the previous ones first!!! Have pinheads even been asking for this??
[quoted image]

It's just a $8000 contract game reskin of Star Wars The Pin. I don't think many pinheads are asking for that, but it's a chance for Stern to make some money and keep cranking out games, so I can't knock them for doing it.

#4894 4 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

Have pinheads even been asking for this??

That's pretty cool. And it doesn't look like it has anything to do with that movie with the cheesy animation from 1981.

Quoted from LesManley:

It's just a $8000 contract game reskin of Star Wars The Pin. I don't think many pinheads are asking for that, but it's a chance for Stern to make some money

3powc1 (resized).jpg3powc1 (resized).jpg

#4895 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

That's pretty cool. And it doesn't look like it has anything to do with that movie with the cheesy animation from 1981.

[quoted image]

I dont see this selling at all. Ever who thinks this stuff up at Stern is not very creative at all. Of all the games to pick from to do a reskin why in the F would you chose Star Wars??

#4896 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I dont see this selling at all. Ever who thinks this stuff up at Stern is not very creative at all. Of all the games to pick from to do a reskin why in the F would you chose Star Wars??

Cause they have plenty of left over parts from the SW pins that never sold.......Stern is a bad joke to me. Tide has turned.

#4897 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I dont see this selling at all.

Me neither.

Besides being an overpriced reskin, I stopped reading Heavy Metal back in the 70s, and a lot of what was in there is too nasty for anything they would do now. And nobody I know of listens to Skid Row anymore.

#4898 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I dont see this selling at all. Ever who thinks this stuff up at Stern is not very creative at all. Of all the games to pick from to do a reskin why in the F would you chose Star Wars??

Quoted from Extraballz:

Cause they have plenty of left over parts from the SW pins that never sold.......Stern is a bad joke to me. Tide has turned.

My understanding is it is a contract game, like Supreme. A contract game is where a company contacts Stern, wants a pin made around their brand. Stern does so. The company that contracted the game then sells it at whatever price they want. I could contact them and have them make a pin about my socks. I'm sure they would as long as I ponied up the dough.

I also recall reading/hearing that Stern offers the company a choice of the Primus/Whoa Nellie style layout, or the Spiderman/Supreme/Star Wars home pin layout.

Contract manufacturing is just another thing that Stern offers. There will be another "cornerstone" title for all the whiners to jump on in a month or so most likely, so maybe save some bile for that.

#4899 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I dont see this selling at all. Ever who thinks this stuff up at Stern is not very creative at all. Of all the games to pick from to do a reskin why in the F would you chose Star Wars??

I don't believe Stern chooses. I think that when a company wants to do a contract game with them, Stern says ok great we can do that and then gives them the couple of playfield options (Whoa Nellie / Spiderman / Star Wars) they have and then the company picks one. Whether or not Stern thinks the game is going to be a big seller doesn't matter since they get paid for the contract regardless.

#4900 4 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

My understanding is it is a contract game, like Supreme. A contract game is where a company contacts Stern, wants a pin made around their brand. Stern does so. The company that contracted the game then sells it at whatever price they want. I could contact them and have them make a pin about my socks. I'm sure they would as long as I ponied up the dough.

It’s a no lose for Stern, it’s certainly not aimed for the “pinside” buyer

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 144.00
Lighting - Backbox
The MOD Couple
Backbox
€ 45.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pino Pinball Mods Shop
Toys/Add-ons
$ 10.00
$ 39.00
$ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
Other
$ 60.00
Hardware
Pin Parts
Hardware
$ 49.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toys/Add-ons
$ 11,000.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
Pinball Machine
$ 54.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Lighted Pinball Mods
Shooter rods
12,500 (OBO)
$ 100.00
Boards
Led Pinball
Boards
$ 14.95
$ 45.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pixels Arcade Games
Toys/Add-ons
$ 80.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Duke Pinball
Decorations
$ 24.00
Playfield - Protection
Pinhead mods
Protection
6,700 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Lexington, SC
$ 24.00
Lighting - Other
Pin Monk
Other
$ 29.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
Toys/Add-ons
$ 19.95
Electronics
Lermods
Electronics
From: $ 15.00
Cabinet - Other
UpKick Pinball
Other
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
Other
$ 95.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Pinball Mod Co.
Sound/Speakers
10,500
Machine - For Sale
Mccordsville, IN
From: $ 105.00
Cabinet - Other
Pinball Mod Co.
Other
$ 79.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
PinGraffix Pinside Shop
Armor and blades
€ 40.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pino Pinball Mods Shop
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 11.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
Other
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu
There are 9,207 posts in this topic. You are on page 98 of 185.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/continued-playfield-issues-with-jjp-and-stern/page/98?hl=extraballz and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.