If you watch to the end you can see that they have some issues knocking the camera over, so that is probably why they cut. I see no reason why that material would damage from that hit. I would have been very surprised if it was damaged. The thickness they are using seems like complete overkill.

Post again....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencealert.com/new-super-wood-stronger-than-steel/amp

Compress d@m plywood and add some chemicals and all the craters and dimples go away.

Their tech support guys were always great when I talked with them. Feel bad for those guys having to constantly walk people through light board issues, etc and then having to try to sell a 2.0 kit to customers whose issues are the result of defects at the factory. Wasn't their faults JJP and Jack won't step up and provide those kits for customers that got problematic early run games.

Every employee or professional related to JJP has been honest, responsive and superb, except Jack.

All good.. That is why I love Pinside, everybody has a different opinion.

It looks like. There is some Lexan or some sort of Acrylic on top of the playfield. It doesn’t look like a wood surface.

I have had great experiences with modern 2 part auto clear coat finishes that I apply myself. And I'm not talking the rattle can stuff. I use $130/quart DuPont Chroma clear. Nice and hard in a couple days, doesn't chip, and plays to my liking.

Surely there must be something you can do with acrylic or polycarbonate, which mimics the field of the standard wood/clear PF?
Waxes or such?

The advantage with polycarbonate/lexan is that it´s a lot sturdier then acrylic. Downside is cost, esp if you want scratch-free polycarbonate, which is really expensive. You need the scratch free type, since normal get scratched really easy.
The nhl uses 8mm scratch free polycarbonate. For the puck, half would suffice, but it has to stop bodychecks etc aswell.

On the whole though a square yard of Scratch free 3mm lexan(which will be enough, if yoú´re not shooting the balls on it with a gun), should still come in under 100$

At 2:16 and at 2:30 you can see marks they swapped it out

There ARE some strange cuts there that don't match up time wise.

At 2:10, when he hits the playfield with a hammer, there is another hammer sitting on the table at the bottom left of the playfield, but during the "close-up" at 2:11, that hammer has vanished, only to re-appear at the second close-up at 2:13.

At 2:24, when the playfield is hit with the sledgehammer, that regular hammer is still there, but then at 2:31, during the close-up, the sledgehammer is sitting on the table to the left of the playfield (and the regular hammer has vanished).

The regular hammer then reappears at 2:43 again.

Now, I am NOT saying that they faked this or that they swapped playfields, or anything like that. I suspect that the close-ups were different "takes" than the shots from further back - with the hammer present for the back shots, and missing in the close-ups.

I don't see any "marks" that indicate they changed out playfields. There is a glare/reflection spot that could be mistaken for a mark, but if you watch the whole video, you can see that spot move around with the camera.

I don't know the exact material or specs these guys are using but there is nothing hard to believe about this. There are plenty of materials available that would be virtually indestructible to a pinball. It's not in any way difficult to make a durable playfield you just have to want to do it. All his videos are highly produced using several takes. Some of you guys are skeptical that water is wet.

Is there a reflection or glare at all from a protector?

I've considered them, but also felt putting things in plastic, take away the experience of using something, versus not. Like shelving a game, movie, etc. Like pinball is meant to be played, not have a condom wrapped around it.

Dunno really....

I've played a High Speed with a hardtop (same thing, reverse printed polycarbonate.) It played great, and looked perfect.

I would love to see this tech on all playfields and forget about clearcoat shenanigans forever.

Oh, I meant more a plastic protector.

These hardtops, or some sort, seem like a much better idea than current playfields, with or without a protector. I'd love a hardtop at this point.

If this plastic/plywood hybrid ever evolved into the norm on all pinballs, I believe we would get third party companies making solid wood playfields. I also think there will be guys willing to spend 1k or more on their new games for that traditional feel. Then those guys will bitch about the dimples on those playfields.

Playfields in my older games still look pretty good. Even 2002 Stern Playboy and 2014 Stern Mustang premium are holding up well.
But the heavy dimpling pictured on recent Stern games here on Pinside has me torn about putting a protector on my EHoH LE or not.

I was out of space when I bought the game so I need to expand my game area. I was working at that - but then I ordered R&M.
So Elvira sits still NIB while I change things so it and R&M can both be added. Playfield protector for EHoH was ordered and received.

When I'm finally able to unbox Elvira do I install the protector or not? (Currently leaning towards installing it.)

Looked fine while playing. You can tell it's there when you're not playing.

There is no reflection from the playfield protector. It just looks like a thick clearcoat.

Which is to say that yes, much like a thick clear coat, the pf is shiny and will reflect bright lights.

One potential solution is softer balls! The fact that a hardened ball bearing is smashing around the PF means the metal, PF. and plastics are going to take a beating!

One thing, and it is used in some metal parts, is to shot peen the surface and then sand it smooth. Once you apply the compressive stresses to the surface it makes it less likely to be permanently deformed in the future. I have never tried it with plywood... but in theory... it should make the surface much more resistant to dimpling.

**Edit** The softer balls crack was a joke. I don't think we should be using rubber balls in the games

**Edit** The softer balls crack was a joke. I don't think we should be using rubber balls in the games

Never thought of that before!
Think I might have to try it out, wonder which one to use.
Something fast and furious like F14 Tomcat or No Fear!

I have wondered why no manufacturer has used a "powerball" instead of steel for their games.

If they did this, the coil strengths could be reduced overall, and you'd have less playfield damage over time (and probably fewer broken plastics too).

I realize that traditionally you want the "silver ball", but it seems like this might be worth a try.

Ceramic is actually harder then steel and air balls would be drastically increased. A powerball would not change much other then making the game play odd at best.

For the record.... weight also is also a big factor. The ol' F=Ma^2 plays into it...

It would be interesting to see... how much quicker do *fast* tables dimple compared to slower ones? Assuming that all pinballs weigh the same... a steeper pitch should lead to more PF damage.

But was there a dent in the hammer? That is the real question.

thank you for introducing an equation. As an engineer, I would love to see more math in Pinside - by the way, it’s mass x acceleration F=ma

Ha!!!! what was i thinking? you can tell I haven't used the equation in a while! I am an engineer... but my background is in material science!

I think this is what you are looking for:

F(k)=m*v^2/2

Or:
F(k)=m*v^2/2 = dimpled to Hell

those are equations for energy, not force, but who knows which represents pockmarks in the playfield better...

Fuc(k)=m*e

The harder you make the playfield, the harder it will be to cut and drill. Add extra costs for all those drill and router bits that would get dull pretty quickly.

Bamboo seems ideal from a durability standpoint, too bad it grows long enough but isn't wide enough to cover a playfield.

Sometimes.....sometimes this forum leaves me speechless.....

Lol you are kidding right? Do you think 8’ sheets of plywood come from 8’ wide trees??

lol

I really hope plastic in NOT the future of pinball. I have zero interest in shooting on plastic.

On another note. Is JJP still using those sh!tty narrow posts with the edge on the bottom? HE double hocky stick they are the sh!ttiest posts I have ever seen. I just took one off my Dial In (no real damage) during some maintenance and I ended up sanding that edge off as suggested.

You meant "4' wide trees" but it got the point across. My old job took me to Boise, Idaho a lot. I remember seeing plywood being made. Quite the industrial process. Not sure if it was at a Weyerhaeuser or Boise-Cascade facility. Might have been in the Carolinas now that I think of it. I traveled so much back then...

You do realize that the clearcoat layer you are actually playing is basically plastic, right?

No, its not the same as a thick piece of plastic.

I've played a hardtopped High Speed and it was great. I would absolutely love for all my games to have this.

I think its great that people work on these type of things, Hardtops, now this new playfield design etc.. It is just not for me. I am glad there is an option for people who like it I just hope it is never adopted as an industry standard. Clear coat clipping aside (which I do not believe is a long standing issue, this is current), things are meant to degrade and that is ok.

I look forward to more playfield smashing in 2020.

How will deep root outdo the completion? A bowling ball? Maybe drive over it with a Hyundai?

It’s an exciting time to be alive In pinball if you are into people assaulting large plastic wafers with tools and machinery!

Drill resistant...

What a bunch of dicks in this thread. You realize the top surface of the plywood that the ball contacts is a veneer, peeled as a single sheet?

Rofl.
Welcome to the modern era.

They could get the guy who breaks out Tesla truck windows!

Agreed it would be tough to accept change as its been embedded in our mind it must be wood but I also see some of the benefits to change. No hole protectors, no mylar, no clear issues, no art wear, no planking, dimples, minimal if any warping, no insert issues, easy to buff out problems to name a few. Hobbies like this are vigilant to avoid change but sometimes it can be for the greater good. Not saying this is The way to go but it may be time for a tech change sooner then later.

To his point, he talking about the compressed wood that is as hard as steel. Not some soft plastic.

With something like wood that is compressed and as hard as steel how do they "CNC" that? Do they use water jets or plasma or lasers or something else?