He comes off like a real horse’s ass.

Ah yeah, this too. JJP gets a pass for a lot of stuff it seems.

You'd think if the company had playfield issues once that there would be no way a system was not put in place to test/check/QA incoming playfields. Of course validation should be done on all suppliers' parts as soon as they arrive. It seems like all someone had to do was stick a thumbnail in the clear to know there was an issue but I'm pretty sure the hardness/thickness gauges for paint aren't that expensive. Not lots of new playfields expensive.

Really going all the way back to a 2007 build.So you sold your Emerald Edition WOZ and made your money back?

That doesn't change the systemic manufacturing issues combined with lackluster customer concern for those issues. Jack is ok with spending other people's money, it seems. Lighting kit here, playfield there, stickers.. whatever.

You can stay negative,I was just trying to let potential Wonka buyers know that the new ones are solid.

Loved his silly title at IGT: Vice President of Cool Games

I mean, I still want my JJP games and more but there is a pattern. Getting swept under the rug won't help, that's what led us to where we are now. If the newer games are solid, excellent. But playfields aren't the only thing that can have systemic issues and if JJP handles systemic/manufacturing issues like this for any other problem then I am less enthusiastic about buying a NIB game from them. Continuing to call out the manufacturers until they create a product without these kinds of issues and take care of the games that have issues is what will make change.

How many Wonkas do you own to arrive at the conclusion that all of the new ones are solid?

Congrats are in order.
I Do hope Stern gets their quality issues under control and that they start repopulate their playfields with beautiful contraptions.

I havent seen any pf complaints with late wonka.
Anybody?

Nope seems the issue was fixed after the first se and le batch and not all of those were effected.

Thank you Chris

This would be great news for JJP and pinball customers if they got the playfield issues sorted.

? I'm not Chris?

If only the manufacturer of the games did something crazy like letting people know what the frack is going on. Nope, stay silent and hope no one notices and it goes away. An email, a release, a post, anything.. "we fixed the issue, here it is what it was, won't happen again because of this reason, etc"

They play us for fools, we accept.

I was being a smartass,you sound like Kaneda does on about every podcast.We get it already!

A bit OT but not by much, my CGC remake is “flattening out” and the dimples are merging... as far as NIB purchases, I’ve decided to wait on more classic B/W remake pins and their first non-remake, although CCr is a hard pass on theme and play even with code updates, let alone without them. That machine always reminded me of a Gottlieb with WMS flippers... Cactus Jack meets Eldorado... Boring meets snoozefest... CC = pinball novacaine, you just feel numb after about the 50th Gold Mine multiball.

That's pretty brave.
Yours's may be solid; but I doubt they are all solid... or even a significant amount solid.
I'm waiting for wonkas on secondary market where we KNOW they are solid.

So far there have been no complaints with the ce, le and se that were made after sept-oct. I'd say they got it under control but of course there cld be a outlier like with any handmade product. But if I was a buyer I'd be pretty confident in purchasing a jjp pin made after sept-oct manufacturing date.

I agree. He couldn’t even say Keith Elwin’s name and kept referring to him as a kid.

Yep, he could improve his resume with Beverly Hillbillies.

Back in the 70s I had a Wonka bar that hung around too long and it got solid. Perhaps these playfields should be covered in chocolate and forgotten for 45 years.

Kind of funny how people have such different opinions of machines. I finally got some playing time on a CC recently and found that I really liked the layout, and could see how (with completed software) it could have been a really good machine.
OTOH, I don't understand what people see in TOTAN...like you said "boring meets snoozefest" and a big stupid spinner in the way of everything.

Meanwhile the rest of us who got first-launch run machines are sitting here with our proverbial dicks in our hands. We've got shitty playfields that are blistering and chipping apart, and the best they could do was send us a large box with a bare wood field inside and say c'est la vie! Good luck with your swap project!

But you answered the question... sort of. I like the challenge of the Lamp way more than saving the Princess and the whole machine forces you to deal with it. So it appeals to me, as a challenge to overcome. On CC, the gunfighter drops are supposed to add this type of challenge, but a non moving target can be dialed in... that f-ing lamp seems to do nothing but get in your way, but actually, the secret to high scores on Totan is lightning lamp spins, bonus multipliers and extra balls. Saving the Princess and Genie multiball are the obstacles blocking your play in my book. It's when the lamp stops and there is no shot to start it spinning... it just gets in the way... so now you are forced to rebound shots into it, way more dynamic and challenging than the gunfighter drops.

Short answer, on CC compared to Totan is they are different and appeal differently, and I fall towards the frustrations of the lamp as way more of a challenge than gold mine mb and hitting jackpot shots, or collecting bounties, ad nauseam

Also, I have to find machines that appeal to the wife. CC doesn't but Totan does. So... back on topic...

It was the lack of quality in Deadpool playfields that nudged us towards CGC... that Stern continues relying on the resurgence in pinball to sell their lowered quality offerings is just sad, and the standard industry response to pf issues is and continues to be DILLIGAF, CGC is slow to deliver but after 6 months my MBrLE is still playing like new. My next NIB purchase will not be a Stern or a JJP.

Yep we are.. I'm waiting for a playfield so I can do a swap...

I got one of those lousy games. Never heard a peep on if I am getting a playfield or not. Hoping it shows up one day.

Theres a big difference between dimpling and cracking and chipping. Dimpling is normal. Chipping and cracking playfields is not. Its like wood has gotten alot softer than it used to be. Cause i have a 1991 T2 and im pretty sure it was routed and its playfield is fine. Just chipping on the decals on the jewels. Nothing wrong with the wood.

Because that’s the way a legitimate company operates.

It was an SE and no, I lost some money. Of course, that isn't the point.

2007? Do your homework on when JJP started making games. It is irrelevant regardless. The point is JJP has had defects on some of their games whether it be electronics or playfields almost from the beginning. I replied to a comment that Wonka and damaged Jack and JJP's reputation for quality.

My problem with JJP and Stern going back to the original WOZ's lightboard issues is they rarely seem to truly fix the manufacturing defects and ultimately provide solutions that putt intensive labor and time fixes on the customer... and customers spending 6-10k for a new game at that.

I guess I’ve been lucky with my Dialed In and Wonka.The DI was trouble free and the few problems with Wonka they helped me thru them.Ive always felt like Frank and Lloyd have been helpful with any issues I had

I don't see why they don't shift to a harder wood like maple. Plywood is not cutting it.

Yea it's more expensive but at the price of these things the playfields should be top tier wood.

Plywood is made from Maple and other types of wood, such as oak, birch, etc. They can't use solid wood, if that's what you mean, because it's not stable and could/would warp over time. Almost any hardwood will dimple.

Take a look at magnets on games, they dimple.

This is true

We really just need to move to composite wood material at this point.

Opinion only! That does seem like the direction they need to head but like all things pinball many purists Hate change. Like hard tops etc many will resist any change as taking away from traditional ball on wood gameplay. Heck just changing a traditional lockdown bar set the hobby into a tailspin.

Rightfully so.

I hear what you're saying, but when manufacturers can no longer achieve proper quality standards using what materials and clear are presently available, then something has to change. I'm tired of brand new machines wearing like shit when the 25 year old ones are holding up just fine.

I don't give a shit about "purist" views about wood. If the wood is shitty, then use something else that won't dent like aluminum foil. If you can't make a quality play field out of wood, then make it out of something else.

I dunno man I have a shuffleboard playfield & cabinet made of hard maple from north US and I broke a drill bit trying to put in pilots for a set of lights and almost stripped the screws. I can't imagine it being tough to drill through a pinball playfield.

Why not just put a playfield protector on all games at the factory? Id imagine it would not cost very much buying in bulk. Over time, as they wear, the owner could replace them and still have a nice new pf underneath. I've had one on my mmr since day 1, looks great, not a whole lot of difference in play. Easier to replace a pf protector than an entire pf.

It is. But they do play different and after a while, just don't look as good. They do play different. It's consistent, yes, but different.

Looks better than a dimpled pf everyone seems to hate. It’s a wear and tear item, replace it when you want or don’t. If I were a manufacturer, I’d seriously consider this for an LE and make it an option for a pro/standard.

Playfield protectors just don't work for me. They play different, take the ball noise away, and get dirty too fast.

Those are all things that you should be able to address with various types of composite materials.

Sledgehammer to new playfield? The times they are a changing. Competition breeds better quality. Or at least an attempt at better

What you can do to a bare playfield, you can do to a playfield protector.

Wax, polish clean, etc, etc. If the ball is running over a thin film of wax it does not matter what is underneath, the ball will behave the same.

We have some games with protectors (most of the new ones) and some without.

I will bet this is a hard top. I cannot understand why all manufacturers are not using this. Ohh.. wait.. people think a ball running over plastic will behave differently to a ball running over wood. Not smart enough to realise the ball is running over the clear which is exactly the same.

They are definitely not for everyone. They can be high maintenance and require plenty of cleaning.

How do you feel about modern days thick clear with synthetic/plastic varnish.
Is there less of an issue, when sprayed on?

I like how they cutaway then show you the same playfield LOL I don't think so

Hard to do outlane saves with protectors. Ball travels faster and has less spin, IMO.