(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

9 months ago



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There are 5286 posts in this topic. You are on page 92 of 106.
#4551 3 months ago

Man this thread has lost its focus badly. Too bad pinside doesn't have OP moderated threads as an option, would really make this site more useable with the volume of traffic it has now.

You people do realize that there are existing threads for "dimpling", one going back 9 years!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-dimpling
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/steve-ritchie-discusses-pinball-playfield-dimpling/page/15#post-4430973
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-new-clear-process-worksand-cured-most-dimpling-

And the asinine "HUO" criteria discussion:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/huo
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-a-nib-huo-game-still-huo-if-you-take-it-to-a-show-to-the-freeplay-a/page/2#post-5358926

Getting back to the actual topic at hand...

Quoted from snaroff:

My NIB JP2 build quality is great. Approaching 500 plays and the dimpling is minor. PF artwork and inserts all look great.

We have a JP2LE on location and it also is holding up very well. Thin clearcoat on it but appears to be very little to no wear after months of location use. It has a largish metal washer under the post in front of the upper right flipper, not sure if that means it's mounted to the bottom of the PF but no signs of wear or leaning on it.

Do I think this means that Stern's PF quality issues are "solved"? Hell no. Over the last 4 or 5 years they seem to come and go and you never know when they might crop up next. It does seem to correlate somewhat with a popular game being released (GB, IMDN, JP2), I assume the PF supplier cuts corners in their processes or standards trying to keep up with demand (possibly with Stern's blessing).

Quoted from DerGoetz:

JP2LE
terrible graining, looks like ass.
removed apron and did test drops. Craters, not dimples, right away.
i pulled everything needed and install a playfield protector before even the first ball was played.
made the graining almost invisible and no dimples for me.

My BKSoR Pro also has PF graining, which Stern considers "normal". I too am bothered by new games, like my IMDNLE, which come with heavily crazed inserts. At the least Stern could filter the crap and provide the nicest PFs to LE and Premium buyers, like CGC does.

I'm out on blindly purchasing NiB from Stern going forward, period. Someday I'll pick up nicely used JP2 when I can inspect how it's wearing and find one I'll be happy with, and if you give a shit about these things then I recommend you all do the same.

#4552 3 months ago
Quoted from Fytr:

You people do realize that there are existing threads for "dimpling", one going back 9 years!

Sure, but most in this thread are referring to craters, not dimples.

#4553 3 months ago

Well, the shit storm I stirred up has no logical basis for an argument. HUO, means, as I used it, it went into my home, for my use only. Now why the arguments have no merit or logical basis is this one fact only- I am not selling this machine, and more specifically, I am not selling this machine to any of you. That said means that I am not representing this machine as HUO to anyone. I have never sold any of my pinball machines. Don’t plan on ever selling this one either. So if I say I bought it after it was used in a tournament (specifically the Chicago Expo 2007 Flip Out Tournament) where it was used in the final match of that tournament, where the top two contestants went head to head on a Family Guy machine... Andy Rosa and Greg Davis... yeah, I bought that one, from Mike Pacak, two minutes after the tournament ended, where it went into my rental truck and I brought it home to Frankfort Ky, where I was living at the time. Since then it has 2822 plays on it, of which 2567 of them I (and my house guests) have put on it in 12 years. It will remain in my home for my use only till they haul me out boots up. Here is a picture of the tournament lineup, care of PinGame Journal.

BAE30384-B8F8-40C0-A04B-71459454EDB2 (resized).jpeg
#4554 3 months ago

Just an update, on 12/6 I was told my replacement IMDN Pro playfield was approved. Was notified this week it is on back order and to expect it in a couple of weeks.

#4555 3 months ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

I really don’t like complaining about Stern. I love their games but this was the playfield I was sent as my replacement playfield. It looks okay in the front. The back looks like the scene from the end of a porn film. There is clear everywhere.
It took 5 months to send me this one. Sure I can sand the back and get the large drops of clear off the back by the shooter lane switch. This is the quality Stern is accepting now?
If I was the Quality Inspector/Director, I would be pretty embarrassed with my product. I am glad the front at least looks okay.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

dumb question, but you had a bad jp playfiled and they sent you a new one...they expect you to unscrew all the parts and install everything on that wood?

#4556 3 months ago
Quoted from zaki:

dumb question, but you had a bad jp playfiled and they sent you a new one...they expect you to unscrew all the parts and install everything on that wood?

Yes, when people talk about "unpopulated", that is what it means. There is literally nothing but the playfield itself. Everything, top and bottom, needs to be transferred over. Stern used to give out populated playfields when needed, which meant everything was there, just drop it in and hook it up. Unfortunately this past few months they have decided to go unpopulated only in all but a tiny few cases. And quite frankly if Tom's playfield didn't warrant a populated playfield, I'm not sure what does anymore. Please note, this is not just Stern...JJP has been pulling that same crap.

#4557 3 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Well, the shit storm I stirred up has no logical basis for an argument. HUO, means, as I used it, it went into my home, for my use only. Now why the arguments have no merit or logical basis is this one fact only- I am not selling this machine, and more specifically, I am not selling this machine to any of you. That said means that I am not representing this machine as HUO to anyone. I have never sold any of my pinball machines. Don’t plan on ever selling this one either. So if I say I bought it after it was used in a tournament (specifically the Chicago Expo 2007 Flip Out Tournament) where it was used in the final match of that tournament, where the top two contestants went head to head on a Family Guy machine... Andy Rosa and Greg Davis... yeah, I bought that one, from Mike Pacak, two minutes after the tournament ended, where it went into my rental truck and I brought it home to Frankfort Ky, where I was living at the time. Since then it has 2822 plays on it, of which 2567 of them I (and my house guests) have put on it in 12 years. It will remain in my home for my use only till they haul me out boots up. Here is a picture of the tournament lineup, care of PinGame Journal.[quoted image]

To me these are all ridiculous titles/names.

Condition is everything - look it over in person and determine the machine’s condition.

#4558 3 months ago
Quoted from zaki:

dumb question, but you had a bad jp playfiled and they sent you a new one...they expect you to unscrew all the parts and install everything on that wood?

Yes and yes

#4559 3 months ago
Quoted from zaki:

dumb question, but you had a bad jp playfiled and they sent you a new one...they expect you to unscrew all the parts and install everything on that wood?

If only it was as easy as unscrewing all the parts

#4560 3 months ago

If they are sending unpopulated playfields, they should be paying for someone to populate it for the customer also...

#4561 3 months ago
Quoted from Jediturtle:

Yes, when people talk about "unpopulated", that is what it means. There is literally nothing but the playfield itself. Everything, top and bottom, needs to be transferred over. Stern used to give out populated playfields when needed, which meant everything was there, just drop it in and hook it up. Unfortunately this past few months they have decided to go unpopulated only in all but a tiny few cases. And quite frankly if Tom's playfield didn't warrant a populated playfield, I'm not sure what does anymore. Please note, this is not just Stern...JJP has been pulling that same crap.

And about 40hours of work

#4562 3 months ago

My JP looks like the clear was put on with a brush. Is that what you guys mean by graining?

#4563 3 months ago
Quoted from floyd1977:

My JP looks like the clear was put on with a brush. Is that what you guys mean by graining?

Yes

#4564 3 months ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

I really don’t like complaining about Stern. I love their games but this was the playfield I was sent as my replacement playfield. It looks okay in the front. The back looks like the scene from the end of a porn film. There is clear everywhere.
It took 5 months to send me this one. Sure I can sand the back and get the large drops of clear off the back by the shooter lane switch. This is the quality Stern is accepting now?
If I was the Quality Inspector/Director, I would be pretty embarrassed with my product. I am glad the front at least looks okay.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Wow...what a disgrace imo. I think you’re one of the owners that deserved a fully populated playfield. Guess it’s better than nothing.

#4565 3 months ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

I really don’t like complaining about Stern. I love their games but this was the playfield I was sent as my replacement playfield. It looks okay in the front. The back looks like the scene from the end of a porn film. There is clear everywhere.
It took 5 months to send me this one. Sure I can sand the back and get the large drops of clear off the back by the shooter lane switch. This is the quality Stern is accepting now?
If I was the Quality Inspector/Director, I would be pretty embarrassed with my product. I am glad the front at least looks okay.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Whatever that is all over the back of the playfield will also be in the back of the inserts making them looked shit when the LEDs are on.. We have some games like that.

#4566 3 months ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Whatever that is all over the back of the playfield will also be in the back of the inserts making them looked shit when the LEDs are on.. We have some games like that.

Why would clearcoat on the back of an insert look bad, when all play fields have clearcoat over the inserts normally? Wouldn't it just be clear like the playfield?

#4567 3 months ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

I really don’t like complaining about Stern. I love their games but this was the playfield I was sent as my replacement playfield. It looks okay in the front. The back looks like the scene from the end of a porn film. There is clear everywhere.
It took 5 months to send me this one. Sure I can sand the back and get the large drops of clear off the back by the shooter lane switch. This is the quality Stern is accepting now?
If I was the Quality Inspector/Director, I would be pretty embarrassed with my product. I am glad the front at least looks okay.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

That....is grotesque.

#4568 3 months ago
Quoted from Rager170:

Why would clearcoat on the back of an insert look bad, when all play fields have clearcoat over the inserts normally? Wouldn't it just be clear like the playfield?

The clearcoat (or whatever that is on the back of the playfield) over the back of the inserts is small droplets and it make the inserts look like they have small bubbles in them or look crazed. Stern do not use picture mode in the code so it is extremely difficult to snap a photo. I realise that I am fussy and most people do not worry about this at all.

I have not worked out how to get it off yet.. I need to find some time to do a little more research. I want to try some naptha on an old playfield. Novus No1 did not work.

It is no big deal but just another small thing that adds to all the other small things.

#4569 3 months ago

My buddy’s “new” IM has pooling, close to chipping. He doesn’t know a chipped or pooled playfield is “a thing”. I’m not saying anything to him, he has other things to be concerned with right now. I just wont recommend that MFR any more as i was a motivator for that purchase.

#4570 3 months ago

Just wanted to chime in. I got my Wonka game over the weekend, build date of late October. No issues.

It was interesting to see a page JJP gives with machines saying how dimpling, ghosting and craze lines and other things of the play field are normal (no mention of pooling).

#4571 3 months ago
Quoted from Rager170:

Just wanted to chime in. I got my Wonka game over the weekend, build date of late October. No issues.
It was interesting to see a page JJP gives with machines saying how dimpling, ghosting and craze lines and other things of the play field are normal (no mention of pooling).

I guess when the majority of your machines have clearcoat defects, the defective ones become the norm, and perfect ones are abnormal. Congrats on your abnormal machine!

#4572 3 months ago
Quoted from Rager170:

Just wanted to chime in. I got my Wonka game over the weekend, build date of late October. No issues.
It was interesting to see a page JJP gives with machines saying how dimpling, ghosting and craze lines and other things of the play field are normal (no mention of pooling).

This is just a guess but it seems like JJP addressed clear coat issues with their playfield manufacturer while Stern only stopped including artwork directly around posts but didn't actually address the root cause of the clear issues.

#4573 3 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I guess when the majority of your machines have clearcoat defects, the defective ones become the norm, and perfect ones are abnormal. Congrats on your abnormal machine!

haha thanks. Ill try and scan that page they include when I remember...

#4574 3 months ago

For what it’s worth, my STH LE looks awesome. Much thicker coat than the pro, no pooling or chipping. From what I understand with that the pooling is immediate and I don’t see any.

#4575 3 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

For what it’s worth, my STH LE looks awesome. Much thicker coat than the pro, no pooping or chipping. From what I understand with that the pooling is immediate and I don’t see any.

No shit?

#4576 3 months ago

Haha. No shit indeed. Even my autocorrect thinks it’s shitty.

#4577 3 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

For what it’s worth, my STH LE looks awesome. Much thicker coat than the pro, no pooling or chipping. From what I understand with that the pooling is immediate and I don’t see any.

Unfortunately pooling is not always immediate. Hopefully they got it figured out though and people won't have anymore issues with it.

#4578 3 months ago
Quoted from Rager170:

Just wanted to chime in. I got my Wonka game over the weekend, build date of late October. No issues.
It was interesting to see a page JJP gives with machines saying how dimpling, ghosting and craze lines and other things of the play field are normal (no mention of pooling).

I’ve had my October built Wonka with no pooling crazing or any dimpling

#4579 3 months ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

The clearcoat (or whatever that is on the back of the playfield) over the back of the inserts is small droplets and it make the inserts look like they have small bubbles in them or look crazed. Stern do not use picture mode in the code so it is extremely difficult to snap a photo. I realise that I am fussy and most people do not worry about this at all.
I have not worked out how to get it off yet.. I need to find some time to do a little more research. I want to try some naptha on an old playfield. Novus No1 did not work.
It is no big deal but just another small thing that adds to all the other small things.

I had this on my BOP repo PF. It was one of the first runs and had some touch-ups done. The PF basically had overspray in the inserts. I took a small art paintbrush and some fresh clearcoat and applied it to the bottom of the inserts. It cleared them up perfectly. May be worth a shot for you as well. Start with an insert that's not super visible just in case it doesn't help though.

#4580 3 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I guess when the majority of your machines have clearcoat defects, the defective ones become the norm, and perfect ones are abnormal. Congrats on your abnormal machine!

That’s bullshit!Anything after the first run of defective Wonka’s has been perfect as far as I’ve seen,and I’ve been watching closely.Maybe you meant to say Sterns abnormal playfields

#4581 3 months ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I had this on my BOP repo PF. It was one of the first runs and had some touch-ups done. The PF basically had overspray in the inserts. I took a small art paintbrush and some fresh clearcoat and applied it to the bottom of the inserts. It cleared them up perfectly. May be worth a shot for you as well. Start with an insert that's not super visible just in case it doesn't help though.

I really appreciate that info, thanks very much. I will definitely try this out.

#4582 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

That’s bullshit!Anything after the first run of defective Wonka’s has been perfect as far as I’ve seen,and I’ve been watching closely.Maybe you meant to say Sterns abnormal playfields

To be fair JJP has had playfield issues from the start, pretty much on every game in some way AFAIK.

#4583 3 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

To be fair JJP has had playfield issues from the start, pretty much on every game in some way AFAIK.

Well AFAIK the issues started with a portion of the POTC run and continued with the first run of Wonka’s.At this point Jack called up Mirco and said get your shit together or else!

#4584 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Well AFAIK the issues started with a portion of the POTC run and continued with the first run of Wonka’s.At this point Jack called up Mirco and said get your shit together or else!

Actually many WOZ's ended up with stickers being sent out to cover some bad PF art issues. The Hobbit escaped relatively unscathed and DI had some chipping issues. From then on you're right... haven't heard anything bad about the latest Wonka's.

#4585 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Well AFAIK the issues started with a portion of the POTC run and continued with the first run of Wonka’s.At this point Jack called up Mirco and said get your shit together or else!

So with a simple phone call Mirco can just start making perfect playfields for JJP but not Stern? That doesn’t sound quite right to me. Need a lot more detail than Jack made a phone call before I believe JJP is all set on PF quality. Did they change wood type/quality? Is the clear different? New process? Why didn’t Mirco just start making perfect playfields for Stern if all it took was a phone call? Call me skeptical on your claim.

#4586 3 months ago

Because they don’t make stern playfields?

#4587 3 months ago

According to Pinside Mirco doesn’t make Stern playfields.And yes a phone call and righteous ass chewing can change bad manufacturing real quick.My uncle Charlie was VP of a finishing company I worked for as a young man.I watched him make calls to vendors and the problems were resolved when new material arrived

#4588 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

According to Pinside Mirco doesn’t make Stern playfields.And yes a phone call and righteous ass chewing can change bad manufacturing real quick.My uncle Charlie was VP of a finishing company I worked for as a young man.I watched him make calls to vendors and the problems were resolved when new material arrived

I hope you are right. I am a big fan of what JJP is trying to build. As far as Stern goes seems like they don’t really want people to know where their playfields are done. That is yet another suspicious move by them. I still think Mirco is involved at some level.

#4589 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

According to Pinside, Mirco doesn’t make Stern playfields.

Copied from my post in the Pinball Expo 2019 thread:
Stern tour showed Elvira + JP + SW comic art edition all being assembled. Per our tour guide playfields are cut and routed at Stern, sent out for printing and clear coat, then returned to Stern where they are placed in racks and left for weeks to let the clear cure.

If this information is correct, then no wonder Stern wants to replace as few playfields as possible. The outside vendor would only refund Stern for the printing and clearing cost of defective playfields, and not the cost of the wood playfield itself. To try to salvage a playfield from bad printing or a bad clear coat, Stern would have to sand the top surface and send it out for reprinting and clearing.

#4590 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

According to Pinside Mirco doesn’t make Stern playfields.And yes a phone call and righteous ass chewing can change bad manufacturing real quick.My uncle Charlie was VP of a finishing company I worked for as a young man.I watched him make calls to vendors and the problems were resolved when new material arrived

Pretty sure this issue wasn't resolved with a phone call. I'm fairly certain Mirco got an earful "in person." I have no actual evidence to validate this assertion, but I was told that Jack was "out of the country" when I opened my claim in August. Shortly after he returned, I was called by him personally. I just put two and two together.

#4591 3 months ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

Copied from my post in the Pinball Expo 2019 thread:
Stern tour showed Elvira + JP + SW comic art edition all being assembled. Per our tour guide playfields are cut and routed at Stern, sent out for printing and clear coat, then returned to Stern where they are placed in racks and left for weeks to let the clear cure.
If this information is correct, then no wonder Stern wants to replace as few playfields as possible. The outside vendor would only refund Stern for the printing and clearing cost of defective playfields, and not the cost of the wood playfield itself. To try to salvage a playfield from bad printing or a bad clear coat, Stern would have to sand the top surface and send it out for reprinting and clearing.

Thanks for the info. Clears up a few things for me.

#4592 3 months ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Pretty sure this issue wasn't resolved with a phone call. I'm fairly certain Mirco got an earful "in person." I have no actual evidence to validate this assertion, but I was told that Jack was "out of the country" when I opened my claim in August. Shortly after he returned, I was called by him personally. I just put two and two together.

I’ll concede the one on one meeting that’s what you do when you really want to put a boot up someone’s ass!I can hear Jack yelling how his reputation of a quality build just went out the fucking window and you knuckle heads will be replacing playfields

16
#4593 3 months ago

I have it on good authority this is actual footage from the Mirco factory around the same time Jack was on his trip.

JJP.gif
#4594 3 months ago
Quoted from gjm7777:

I have it on good authority this is actual footage from the Mirco factory around the same time Jack was on his trip.[quoted image]

That's not him, he would have opened up with a cartwheel to the nuts

#4595 3 months ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

That's not him, he would have opened up with a cartwheel to the nuts

Too funny!Post of the year!

#4596 3 months ago
Quoted from gjm7777:

I have it on good authority this is actual footage from the Mirco factory around the same time Jack was on his trip.[quoted image]

That’s what I call neighborly love

#4597 3 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Some comments from Joe Kaminkow on recent playfield quality when asked about it on the Super Awesome Pinball show.

"For those at home in their underwear and in their wife beaters and drinking PBR and bitch in the words of William Shatner get a life"

Man he got us all wrong.

I figure most of us are in front of the fridge @ 2am stoned to the mother fuck'n bone in our underwear eating cold leftover crab rangoons & watching Ancient Aliens whilst surfing pinside.

#4598 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

I’ll concede the one on one meeting that’s what you do when you really want to put a boot up someone’s ass!I can hear Jack yelling how his reputation of a quality build just went out the fucking window and you knuckle heads will be replacing playfields

Build quality? I made the mistake of buying an early run WOZ from the original owner. JJP sent him all new buffered LED boards to replace the unbuffered faulty originals and supposedly the problem was fixed. In the year I owned it, the replacements continued to fail here and there and it ruined most of the enjoyment from the game. The only fix for pre-2.0 WOZ’s is ultimately the 2.0 light kit and JJP wants $800 for (and you get to do the swap on your own) them.

The led light board issue was due to defective, poor engineering and yes, that falls under build quality. Probably not fair but that experience really soured me on ever buying another JJP or other pin with known manufacturing or PF issues.

#4599 3 months ago
Quoted from PW79:

Man he got us all wrong.
I figure most of us are in front of the fridge @ 2am stoned to the mother fuck'n bone in our underwear eating cold leftover crab rangoons & watching Ancient Aliens whilst surfing pinside.

You got that right.

#4600 3 months ago

Joe Kaminkow is a total simp

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