And yet you love plywood.

Don't the dimples even out over time? That seems to be my experience. You notice them right away because the rest of the playfield is glossy smooth. Once more of the playfield gets dimpled it will all blend together.

I'd love for this to happen. How long does it take? I have a lot of plays on my BM66 and I can't say I've really noticed any evening out. It don't think it's gotten much worse after the first hundred plays or so either though.

Harry, I would agree that with a good hard plywood base, the dimpling is shallower and those shallow dents will blend, but Stern’s moon crater playfields of late would take tens of thousands of plays to even out. I saw a Deadpool pf looking like you could grate cheese with it after only 3 days of what you would call heavy routed play. 3 days?!? Yes 3 days. And I would have been hard pressed to find a crater that was less than a 1/4” wide. There are dimples (like on my Stern Family Guy) after heavy routed play of three days (it was used at 2008 Chicago Expo flip out tourney) and then went into HUO. The dimples have continued but dimples... and not a lot of them, most of the big ones are from target bank resets lauching the ball into the glass and slamming back onto the playfield.

The latest Stern offerings between 2018-2019 have had issues with craters, be it low play HUO, or routed heavy use, and its been inconsistant. Some have them some dont. I think the wood is the culprit on cratering, that and the still liquid CC that acts like a fluid or non-Newtonian liquid. Why smeone hasnt engineered a non organic pf replacement is pretty easy to understand. Wood works. It used to work real well, even without a CC. It dont work like it used to, so it dont take an Einstein to figure out the QUALITY of the wood has gotten worse. A lot worse in my opinion. My CGC MBrLE has dimples that range to almost craters, and they are making the playfields like the old days, before CC and Diamond Plate and using the best wood they can source. You think Stern is sourcing the best wood or cheapest? My money is on cheap.

Thanks, I meant to mention that I have never owned a stern, especially a newer one. Sad to hear all around.

An

And people wonder why the old B/W pins retain their value? they used quality wood.

I worked hard to not mention that my older B/W games are all so nice and smooth, heh.

You do realize the playfield isn't included in Stern's stated warranty?

You do realize there are consumer protection laws against manufacturing defects, including implied warranties, don't you?

In case anyone wants to do some reading: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-who-has-playfield-dimples-cracking-wear-around-star-posts-/page/58#post-5440961

Check out this post from Mike at CPR where he discussed the quality of wood CPR uses, and where they get it from. CPR's source is the same as Stern's but CPR pays extra for the best wood they can buy and also adds more layers. It's a shame to say the least that Stern refuses to match CPR's specs considering the all time record prices they are charging, not to mention they just raised prices again with Stranger Things. At the very least premium and LE playfields should be made at the higher spec. Based on Mikes post it would cost Stern around $50 more per game to match CPR's specs. Stern can't match that quality for another $50 per game yet they can raise prices year after year? It's BS.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cpr-playfield-preorders-are-meaningless?tq=&tu=CPR

Yep, fully aware.

I'm just concerned that we are getting into a gray area since the playfield is not specifically covered under any stated warranty and Stern/JJP/Whomever can claim normal wear and tear and owners can claim defect. So, guess I'm saying don't put all your eggs in the warranty basket, start hitting the distro and manufacture with claims of a defective product from the start.

Something that will eventually change when the competition figures out non dimpling playfields. But the big thing is back in the day, people buying NIB for HUO was maybe less than a percent of sales, where today they are a larger market and more demanding of quality. Ops used to get discounts and freebies from distributors when problems arose. But they had a need for a box of lamps and a bag of pf rubbers and so things could be bartered out. A HUO customer has no need for spare parts as much as they want a perfect product OUT of the BOX, and the solution in the past for an op with a very bad pf was a bare replacement pf... their tech would do the swap at $5 an hour and keep on truckin’. Fast forward to today and people demand quality for a big ticket item, and one can not argue a NIB pinball machine is a big ticket item going into the home. If I bought a nice big screen TV with all the bells and whisles and had it delivered, and the screen had a few minor pixel defects in a couple of inconspicuous places, even that would be unacceptable. The customer demographic is changing, and these manufacturers need to address this with their warranty and how they back their equiptment for home ownership. I dont expect any major changes, but you can always hope for a little give and take. I usually dont worry about dimpling, but my MBrLE has me looking sideways at it all the time. The hope is the dimples get flatter (and not deeper) which are two things most guys would never claim they like...

Oh completely agree. The retail chain of custody should be alerted and held accountable as well, but ultimately the manufacturer has the burden of producing something which adheres to their stated quality and a reasonable expectation of functionality and quality.

It's a thin metal protector that is just stuck on with tape. It's not mylar It's effectively a big cliffy protector for the drop zone. You can add it at any time.

After 10k plays or so on my GOT it was pretty evened out.

To speed up the process, just take one of those Home Depot buckets full of old balls and evenly dump them all over the playfield from about a foot and it will even it out and there will be so many now that you will never notice the original craters your game started out with.

If you still can pick them out, repeat the process until they are well hammered in.

Why not get to the point and rent a vibrating compaction rolling thing from the local rental center and just drive over the thing once or twice. Should take all the give out of the playfield and level it nice and smooth.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencealert.com/new-super-wood-stronger-than-steel/amp

Compress d@m plywood and add some chemicals and all the craters and dimples go away.....

Better yet, just stomp up and down on the thing with some football cleats. That should get the job done.

Would baseball cleats work? I ask as the Under Armour Outlet often has them on clearance, a good price for someone that can use them.

Sure!

Just remember to keep stomping until the playfield is all evened out and glassy smooth.

Funniest thing I have read all day!!! Love it... Would you recommend this repair process with the glass on or off?

Might be too late if someone stepped away from Pinside to try...

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That would blend the pooling, chipping and dimpling all in together! You would not notice any playfield issues after that process.

Densified wood makes total logical sense. Some (all) manufacturer needs to approve its use on their next pin.

All of this talk of older playfields looking great is too funny. I own a 1987 Williams f-14 that has almost no clearcoat, the areas the maylar was not on is heavily faded, the inserts are rediculously raised causing serious play issues. Removing the mylar and heating/reseating the inserts was a pain in the butt. I think I'd rather have the thicker clearcoats than the mylar covered playfields with lifting inserts. The Addams family I play at league has a lot of raised inserts as well so not just mine. I've experienced.this a lot on older machines.

Raised inserts is from too much exposure to moisture. Different problem.

So raised inserts aren't caused by the wood playfield being pounded and pounded until all the craters are gone?

Yea crap quality plywood.

It seems most of us here agree that dimpling of some degree is inevitable and acceptable but cratering is NOT.

Every year prices increase.
Why can’t mfg’s add $75-100 to the retail price of each machine and use a higher quality plywood and clear coat?
I don’t want a free playfield if the mfg actually admits a particular machine is below their specification.
Who knows if the playfield provided is any different than the original.

Can someone please take one of the cratered stern playfield pics, blow it up and get some T-shirt’s printed up with large print stating “Boycott Stern Pinball” ?
I’d buy one and wear it to pinball shows and events.

Haha, like they care. Stern is your dealer and delivers the goods, you are all junkies in need of another title......As long as they have 95% market share they can do whatever they like.

Why can't they just do it already at their current prices? These are six f*cking thousand dollars for base models.

...And they cost less than half of that to manufacture. I can deal with that crazy markup if the quality is there, but it ain’t. I bought two NIB Sterns and got two defective playfields (ghosting GB and pooling/cracking MET). Stern more or less handled the issues with some prodding, but I’m sick of these hassles. I’ve decided to turn myself into a pickle to avoid Stern for now. I’m Pickle Rick! Can’t wait for R&M.

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Because of profits, board meetings, shareholders and all the stuff we hate about the robotic corporate mentality. That is why Spooky and other boutique manufacturers will be the only place I will ever consider for NIB games going forward. A playfield wood upgrade may be something you actually see from one of these smaller manufacturers.

Are JJP and Stern corporate?

yes - Because the hallmark of Humanity is benevolence.

Stern yes JJP large boutique?

You're being even a bit too kind here!

I see the term "cratering" being thrown around here. Has anyone taken a micrometer out and measured how deep of a dimple is considered cratering or is this just a made up term for a playfield with a lot of dimples?

Yes, cratering is as fake as the moon landing.

(Poor) artistic licensing, heh.

I wonder if I can get this put on a shirt...

How could you measure how deep they are when they are under smooth clear coat!

(Posted this on the POTC thread as well.)

Got a shipping notice also, for my Pirates LE Playfield this afternoon!

I hope everyone affected with Pirates and Wonka playfield issues gets a playfield to try and correct matters. I'm going to write Jack a letter upon receiving mine, and let him know I appreciate the gesture, as well as Mike at Automated.

Big thanks to @HarryHoudini, and every person that posted photos, made calls, discussed on podcasts, and never let this issue go away.

Hopefully from now on, playfields get better treatment and scrutiny before they get used in games.

Good luck all!

May all yer sailing be smooth, and yer seas be dimple free, mayty.

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You can't measure the divots with a standard micrometer unless you use a ball positioned over a divot and depth mic off two gauge blocks. I think you'll find the depth of the divot much smaller than you realize.

However, you could use a caliper to measure the diameter of the divot and calculate it's depth since we know the diameter of a pinball. Much easier.

e44e016e1e7a8528bac018ec951a67da (resized).jpg

Well there are people on here that believe dimples affect the trajectory of the ball also. Just trying to separate some of the aesthetic playfield issues to focus on the real ones like pooling/chipping.

Because they are greedy bastards.
Every year prices go up and quality goes down.
Every new machine that gets released we hear about features/toys that got deleted .... due to cost/budget.

There are? Well I’d suggest they run their hand across one of the affected playfields amd report back.