(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

4 years ago


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There are 9,207 posts in this topic. You are on page 89 of 185.
#4401 4 years ago
Quoted from Yesh23:

My game has a date of the last week in August. I talked with a tech at Stern today and he said the fix started in Sept about 500 games after mine.

Thought so. Still doesn’t make your situation acceptable. Good luck - hope they sort it out for you as they should.

#4402 4 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Thought so. Still doesn’t make your situation acceptable. Good luck - hope they sort it out for you as they should.

Why didn’t Stern or distributors pull stock?

#4403 4 years ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Why didn’t Stern or distributors pull stock?

Because they don't care, if no one complains they are off the hook.

#4404 4 years ago

It was older stock. Spoke with Chas from Stern today and forwarded some pictures. Have pooling around some of the posts but not all and around the guide of the inside orbit oddly enough... Pretty rough chip from where the newton ball sits and in front of it... Hopefully a quick resolution from Stern. Distributor... all sales final...

20200127_181334 (resized).jpg20200127_181334 (resized).jpg
#4405 4 years ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

text me, got the iron here and you can borrow it anytime.
works like a charm.

Wow cool move to step up and pass it on to help a local collector. Some great people in this hobby!

#4406 4 years ago
Quoted from silen7ce:

It was older stock. Spoke with Chas from Stern today and forwarded some pictures. Have pooling around some of the posts but not all and around the guide of the inside orbit oddly enough... Pretty rough chip from where the newton ball sits and in front of it... Hopefully a quick resolution from Stern. Distributor... all sales final...[quoted image]

Which one? All sales final is right...from you and others

#4407 4 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Fair enough - can only speak from personal experience. I’ve absolutely had my fair share of sh*t Stern Playfields, but am very happy with my JPLE. Absolutely agree that all manufacturers need to fix the mess of the last couple of years. I can’t believe that the pinball industry’s collective knowledge on how to make a Playfield has somehow been lost.

What I find hard to believe is that people are stilling buying these new games with issues, just stop already with the new shit.

I wonder how Andrew is going with this mess, his pie chart will be thru the roof with issues.
https://sternpinball.com/2019/10/10/stern-pinball-enhances-quality-assurance-team/

#4408 4 years ago

It seems theres a lot of JP LE and Premiums that have good PFs, so maybe they've selectively fixed the clearcoat issue? Does anyone have an elvira or stranger things without dimpling? i'll admit i havent seen any jp le/premiums so can't speak to them but its 7/7 on elvira/stranger things and 5/5 on recent jp pros as far as massive cratering.

and please stop trying to lump in small everyday "all playfields dimple" nonsense with this latest round of sterns. i personally don't feel the last generation of dimpling on sterns is acceptable but i could understand why people were ok with it. youd at least have to really look for it lean down at the machine or whatever. but this latest round of machines has holes that are as clear as day from ball 1 and you can't tell me it's not effecting the ball trajectory as well.

#4409 4 years ago
Quoted from extendo:

What I find hard to believe is that people are stilling buying these new games with issues, just stop already with the new shit.
I wonder how Andrew is going with this mess, his pie chart will be thru the roof with issues.
https://sternpinball.com/2019/10/10/stern-pinball-enhances-quality-assurance-team/

That's not going to happen without a concerted effort. Most people don't even know this is going on and surely many people who buy pins either don't care (roll the dice, deal with distro, route so it doesn't matter) or don't read pinside. A consortium of sorts would bridge all of those gaps and get the word out. Pinball media would have to cover it (might be tough since they rely on the manufacturers to get inside info/pre-info) to get the word out to others who aren't on pinside.

The storms have to align just right for these disparate pieces to fit together. A thread on pinside that grows so fast (not as fast as the R&M thread, geesh) makes it so there are very few people even following along. Nothing is going to come from this thread or others that were started. No one knows or cares if the manufacturers stay quiet, which they GLADLY do in these kinds of cases. I don't know ever if I've heard of any manufacturer actually reaching out to customers proactively or informatively. Heck, I got maybe my 2nd email ever from JJP and it was just another "we have games to sell you" email. They didn't inform owners when they found a problem on the line (and changed manufacturing to help solve it), they didn't notify anyone when they started giving the "kit" to "prevent issues", they didn't notify anyone publicly that they were offering the playfield deal for $550 and they didn't say anything publicly when that turned in to a free playfield.

If they don't say anything no one but the small percentage here know or care. They know the game and play it well.

#4410 4 years ago
Quoted from silen7ce:

Hopefully a quick resolution from Stern. Distributor... all sales final...[quoted image]

What distributor? I’d like to avoid them at all costs, especially if they aren’t willing to advocate for you.

#4411 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Pinball media would have to cover it (might be tough since they rely on the manufacturers to get inside info/pre-info) to get the word out to others who aren't on pinside.

If I recall the way things went down with JJP, Jack was totally silent on the playfield issues until the pinball media (finally) started talking about it. He offered replacement playfields (unpopulated) and the the pinball media instantly dropped the subject. And then all was right with the world. Not sure anyone ever actually got a replacement playfield.

#4412 4 years ago
Quoted from arzoo:

Not sure anyone ever actually got a replacement playfield.

Multiple photos just this week of people getting them.

#4413 4 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Multiple photos just this week of people getting them.

Pirates or Wonka?

#4414 4 years ago
Quoted from silen7ce:

Spoke with Chas from Stern today and forwarded some pictures.

So did I...he wasn’t helpful and kept yelling for meatloaf.

5FB3190E-07BC-4202-AFF1-260424CD1750 (resized).jpeg5FB3190E-07BC-4202-AFF1-260424CD1750 (resized).jpeg
#4416 4 years ago

Well that's good news.

#4417 4 years ago
Quoted from silen7ce:

Distributor... all sales final...

FYI:

All Sales Final policies are not prohibited under federal or any state law. As long as the policy is clear and in writing, retailers do not have to issue a return or refund except when a product is defective.

#4418 4 years ago
Quoted from silen7ce:

Distributor... all sales final...

Crucify that Distributor. Share his name.
"all sales final my arse"

#4419 4 years ago

I would seriously like to know who that is to stay clear.

#4420 4 years ago
Quoted from arzoo:

If I recall the way things went down with JJP, Jack was totally silent on the playfield issues until the pinball media (finally) started talking about it. He offered replacement playfields (unpopulated) and the the pinball media instantly dropped the subject. And then all was right with the world. Not sure anyone ever actually got a replacement playfield.

Sounds about right. Kaneda contacted me about being on his show from the other thread I started and when it all flushed out it was around the time Jack did this and I never got any replies from Kaneda since then.

#4421 4 years ago

Just got this tonight. JJP never contacted me that it was shipping. I sent them pics of my playfield months ago and never heard back. Until now. I kind of just accepted the fact that I got what I got and had moved on. I do wonder, however, if this one will have the same problems when I do the swap. That would suck, wouldn't it?

20200128_230140 (resized).jpg20200128_230140 (resized).jpg
#4422 4 years ago
Quoted from 2Fun:

Just got this tonight. JJP never contacted me that it was shipping. I sent them pics of my playfield months ago and never heard back. Until now. I kind of just accepted the fact that I got what I got and had moved on. I do wonder, however, if this one will have the same problems when I do the swap. That would suck, wouldn't it?[quoted image]

The fact it took them so long is a good thing if it means this one comes from a new batch (hopefully).

I suppose you could screw down a post in an inconspicuous painted spot (maybe up at the top) and see how it reacts over the next few weeks.

I bet most of these will end up being sold. Why shouldn't they be? It'll offset the lesser price you'll get when you go to sell your
factory flawed machine.

Good luck with your swap... it'll be a nice project. At least you won't have to staple down the traces going to the pops, etc. They don't still do that do they?

.

#4423 4 years ago

Unboxed my imdn pf. What is an acceptable amount of warpage? It looks significant along the edge, not as bad when laid flat. It's a bit twisted too, but not much.

I've never owned just a pf, so I have no idea if this is normal.

IMG_20200128_191216 (resized).jpgIMG_20200128_191216 (resized).jpgIMG_20200128_191704 (resized).jpgIMG_20200128_191704 (resized).jpgIMG_20200128_191841 (resized).jpgIMG_20200128_191841 (resized).jpg
#4424 4 years ago

Plywood does that.

#4425 4 years ago

Not too worried here. Once installed it should be pressed flat.

#4426 4 years ago

Screw the wood walls on and it should straighten out.

#4427 4 years ago
Quoted from 2Fun:

Just got this tonight. JJP never contacted me that it was shipping. I sent them pics of my playfield months ago and never heard back. Until now. I kind of just accepted the fact that I got what I got and had moved on. I do wonder, however, if this one will have the same problems when I do the swap. That would suck, wouldn't it?[quoted image]

This is good news to me. I did the same. Sent an email about 5 weeks after I bought my Wonka asking what to do about the pooling. Never heard a peep. Maybe I will get a bonus package

#4428 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Plywood does that.

A couple of days before I installed it I would lay on floor crown side up.Put a towel over playfield and weigh down in middle of crown with 5 gallon drywall bucket or similar

#4429 4 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

The fact it took them so long is a good thing if it means this one comes from a new batch (hopefully).
I suppose you could screw down a post in an inconspicuous painted spot (maybe up at the top) and see how it reacts over the next few weeks.
I bet most of these will end up being sold. Why shouldn't they be? It'll offset the lesser price you'll get when you go to sell your
factory flawed machine.
Good luck with your swap... it'll be a nice project. At least you won't have to staple down the traces going to the pops, etc. They don't still do that do they?
.

That is great advice. I would not have thought of that. No bare wire on the bottom! That's a plus

#4430 4 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Unboxed my imdn pf. What is an acceptable amount of warpage? It looks significant along the edge, not as bad when laid flat. It's a bit twisted too, but not much.
I've never owned just a pf, so I have no idea if this is normal.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Have you had this playfield for a while? The reason I ask is I noticed it doesn’t have the upgraded silver Mylar below the upper middle ramp. I’d contact stern and ask for it before that playfield gets installed.

ED83B01C-6BDB-41F6-9B62-88A9794EFC61 (resized).jpegED83B01C-6BDB-41F6-9B62-88A9794EFC61 (resized).jpeg
#4431 4 years ago

Under 300 plays on my Pro, build date Sept 7. Easily visible dimpling, but not nearly as bad as some of the other pictures in this thread. All three of these pictures were taken with the glass on. No special lighting, only the light from the backglass and LCD is shining off the playfield.

Standing height pictureStanding height picture
Glass levelGlass level
Alternate glass levelAlternate glass level

12
#4432 4 years ago
Quoted from Flipstream:

Under 300 plays on my Pro, build date Sept 7. Easily visible dimpling, but not nearly as bad as some of the other pictures in this thread. All three of these pictures were taken with the glass on. No special lighting, only the light from the backglass and LCD is shining off the playfield.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Completely normal..

#4433 4 years ago
Quoted from Rager170:

Completely normal..

I don't like it in a control freak/OCD way, but I accept it is normal. Pinballs are a lot denser than wood and clear-coat.

#4434 4 years ago
Quoted from Flipstream:

I don't like it in a control freak/OCD way, but I accept it is normal. Pinballs are a lot denser than wood and clear-coat.

I hear ya. Im the same way. When I got my first pin, TWD years back, i freaked out about them. Now I realize they happen with all current machines and happens a lot..

Those metal balls are heavy, so its expected to happen on clear and wood like you said.

#4435 4 years ago
Quoted from Flipstream:

Under 300 plays on my Pro, build date Sept 7. Easily visible dimpling, but not nearly as bad as some of the other pictures in this thread. All three of these pictures were taken with the glass on. No special lighting, only the light from the backglass and LCD is shining off the playfield.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Jesus. Looks like soup.....

#4436 4 years ago
Quoted from Rager170:

Completely normal..

Why doesn't my 25 year old STTNG look like that then?

#4437 4 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Why doesn't my 25 year old STTNG look like that then?

Completely "normal" for today's shitty modern playfields, unfortunately....

100 plays for me, and I was jaw dropped to see loads of dimples on my POTC. Sad that this is the standard.

Hopefully Deeproot has a solution.

#4438 4 years ago
Quoted from silen7ce:

It was older stock. Spoke with Chas from Stern today and forwarded some pictures. Have pooling around some of the posts but not all and around the guide of the inside orbit oddly enough... Pretty rough chip from where the newton ball sits and in front of it... Hopefully a quick resolution from Stern. Distributor... all sales final...[quoted image]

Please name and shame the distro. I don't want to do business with any distributor that doesn't help the customer after the sale, and neither should anyone else. Of course all sales are final, barring a major or game-breaking defect, but good distributors will go out of their way to help make things right. As best they can anyway. There are too many good distros out there to do business with a bad one.

#4439 4 years ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Please name and shame the distro. I don't want to do business with any distributor that doesn't help the customer after the sale, and neither should anyone else. Of course all sales are final, barring a major or game-breaking defect, but good distributors will go out of their way to help make things right. As best they can anyway. There are too many good distros out there to do business with a bad one.

Correct. All sales are final, but there is a warranty for a reason..

#4440 4 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Why doesn't my 25 year old STTNG look like that then?

The balls are heavier now..

#4441 4 years ago
Quoted from wesman:

Completely "normal" for today's shitty modern playfields, unfortunately....
100 plays for me, and I was jaw dropped to see loads of dimples on my POTC. Sad that this is the standard.
Hopefully Deeproot has a solution.

Yeah but they may make a good playfield but their games suck. We already have a company out there like that right now.

#4442 4 years ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Please name and shame the distro. I don't want to do business with any distributor that doesn't help the customer after the sale, and neither should anyone else. Of course all sales are final, barring a major or game-breaking defect, but good distributors will go out of their way to help make things right. As best they can anyway. There are too many good distros out there to do business with a bad one.

In parallel, does Stern know who the distributor is? If Stern keeps getting an earful from a certain distributor's sales, that could color their future dealings.

#4443 4 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Why doesn't my 25 year old STTNG look like that then?

For the same reason my TZ doesn't: They don't make 'em like they used to.

#4444 4 years ago

I've had three games; a restored TAF, a TNA, and a BM66. The TAF had no dimples that I could see after a couple of thousand plays over three years. The TNA had some dimples, I don't own the machine anymore so I'm going off memory, but I think I really had to look to see them and they were few and far between. My BM66 started dimpling right away and it's very noticeable, hard not to notice actually. I've put 1500 games on it and so far no "evening out."

Honestly, the only reason this bothers me is that it hurts the resale value, I still think the game looks great overall. Thankfully, BM66 is my favorite of the three by far and I see myself keeping it for a long time so I think I'll get my money's worth out of the machine regardless. If I had not liked it and wanted to do a quick resale I think I would have had to take a few hundred less in resale which would have been a bummer.

Where did the whole evening out thing come from anyway -- was Steve Ritchie being sarcastic, trolling us? It seems like the most patently ridiculous theory I've ever heard. Do people really believe this?

#4445 4 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Why doesn't my 25 year old STTNG look like that then?

Not all were/are made the same, some decide to show planking or orange peel instead.

sttng (resized).jpgsttng (resized).jpg
#4446 4 years ago
Quoted from iloveplywood:

Honestly, the only reason this bothers me is that it hurts the resale value, I still think the game looks great overall.

Yes and no. If all used machines are the same way, it essentially becomes an "accepted thing" and wouldn't really impact the valuation between similar condition tables.

Quoted from iloveplywood:

Where did the whole evening out thing come from anyway -- was Steve Ritchie being sarcastic, trolling us? It seems like the most patently ridiculous theory I've ever heard. Do people really believe this?

Quote from Stern's JP Pro game manualcover page, emphasis added:

Each pinball machine has unique characteristics that make it a one-of-a-kind American made product. Each will have variations in appearance resulting from differences in the machine’s particular wood parts, individual printed art and mechanical assemblies. No playfield is perfectly flat and varies depending on the season.
Game play will result in playfield dimpling as the harder steel ball contacts the wood and coating; over time multiple dimples will blend to make them less noticeable.Normal plastic insert crazing (tiny stress cracks) and ghosting (small cloudy areas around insert edges) are often seen in pinball machines, due to a combination of plastic mold stress, pushing of inserts into purposely undersized holes, and heating and breaking of inserts’ plastic “skin” when the playfield is sanded.

#4447 4 years ago
Quoted from iloveplywood:

I've had three games; a restored TAF, a TNA, and a BM66. The TAF had no dimples that I could see after a couple of thousand plays over three years. The TNA had some dimples, I don't own the machine anymore so I'm going off memory, but I think I really had to look to see them and they were few and far between. My BM66 started dimpling right away and it's very noticeable, hard not to notice actually. I've put 1500 games on it and so far no "evening out."
Honestly, the only reason this bothers me is that it hurts the resale value, I still think the game looks great overall. Thankfully, BM66 is my favorite of the three by far and I see myself keeping it for a long time so I think I'll get my money's worth out of the machine regardless. If I had not liked it and wanted to do a quick resale I think I would have had to take a few hundred less in resale which would have been a bummer.
Where did the whole evening out thing come from anyway -- was Steve Ritchie being sarcastic, trolling us? It seems like the most patently ridiculous theory I've ever heard. Do people really believe this?

Really? Ive never heard of resale being hurt by dimples in the playfield.

#4448 4 years ago
Quoted from Rager170:

Really? Ive never heard of resale being hurt by dimples in the playfield.

Yeah, I should have said the only reason it would bother me is if it did impact resale. I mean I prefer no dimples, but I don't consider it a big deal personally.

#4449 4 years ago

It depends on the level of dimpling, my original AC/DC Pro has dimpling that is the slightest bit of texture in the right light. A used pin like that would not concern me in the slightest. I have seen Sterns that are a lumpy mushy mess and I wouldn't even make an offer on a pin like that. Just walk away and keep looking, if you get a bad one that is going to seriously hurt resale.

#4450 4 years ago
Quoted from iloveplywood:

Yeah, I should have said the only reason it would bother me is if it did impact resale. I mean I prefer no dimples, but I don't consider it a big deal personally.

Oh definitely. If the choice of dimples or no dimples... no dimples ha.

Seems that, at least with newer games, dimples are the norm so I would be surprised anyone mentioning them. Unless they are pushing for a lower cost.

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