I think the best bet for people who have been burned by a pinball manufacturer is to file a complaint with their state attorney general/consumer protection agency/lemon law program. I don't see any other way you have any teeth in this situation. What is going on is wrong, and the manufacturers need to be placed back into reality.

All because they cant QC the playfields correctly prior to populating them... And even then, we all know they noticed the problem while populating them and shipped them out to distributors regardless. Frustrating.

Yes completely. Install these in the factory or loose in the box, just like the old days.
You can buy every 5 years a new one to make your machine "new". Or remove them if you want to sell your machine.

I'd back my truck right through their front door and leave my damaged machine in their lobby.

"I'm returning this."

Ive never tried to stip down a playfield, but that really seems like a lot of work!

'Barely an inconvenience.'

I can’t quite tell what you mean here - are you adding a smaller protector piece under the slings? an area usually left open with the normal pf protectors I believe.

been saying this for years and caught heat for it, I said it the other day in another thread and actually had several folks come to my defense. I think people are waking up to the fact we do NOT need distributors. here is the thread

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/best-pricing-on-nib-stern

No the whole playfield. But that is a nice idea if you already have a protector.
I prefer a complete new one in one piece because it won't help against chipping around the post.

Thats what I said a while back. I just installed a hardtop on my BK, and I am very pleased with its ability to resist dimpling. But to be fair, it has not been played yet.

HOWEVER I did drop a ball in the under-apron area to see the hardtops ability to deal with airballs. I dropped a ball from 6"...no dent or dimple. I dropped a ball from 12"...no dent or dimple. I dropped a ball from 24"...no dent or dimple. Finally I dropped a ball from 36"...a small dent (3/16") was made to the wood, but NOT the hardtop itself.

There was no visual or physical dent or dimple to the hardtop at all. So from what I have seen thus far, I think the overlay is going to be more resistant to dimples, than what has been shown in the thread from the new playfields at Stern and JJP. Time will tell, but I am very optimistic, and I have yet to see where anyone who has installed a HT, has claimed that the surface is getting dimpled.

Just seems to me that the hardtop like overlay is another untapped option, that is not being explored. But maybe it is...who the Hell knows? Also seems to me that it MIGHT be more economical from a manufacturing POV, to go wit the printed overlay rather than painting the playfields. Or maybe put a clear overlay over the painted playfield from the factory.

Maybe its time for the process to evolve, especially if its determined that the overlay can reduce dents and dimples.

Agreed!

lol, ill assume thats a joke..

Can it really be called qc-issues when you produce a game and gets reports of clearcoat issues and then goes on and producescthe next game with the same issues?

That`s not a case of lacking qc, but more of to much CBA.

Ever see the Pitch Meeting guy on Youtube?

It's his canned line for any suggestion the 'Exec' makes.

The MBR we have sitting right next to Stranger Things does not look as bad to the eye... but when you look closer it is quite extensively covered in divot marks. It's just alot less distracting to the eye on MB. I think the marks are less pronounced.. but haven't studied closely.

I have not..

Agreed. Thats what I mean when saying they must have seen these issues but kept using them and sending them to customers.

Ok this has been entertaining! First off all Goetz is a friend of mine great guy, I will have to secretly view these Russia hacked emails next time I see him

Bottom line is I would not buy a JJP product based on this, I mean to ask someone to swap out every mech on a pirates playfield is absolutely INSANE! At the price the CE costs which clearly has huge margins they can send someone a populated playfield. I also happen to be friends with Snaroff and I recall when they swapped his playfield on AC/DC for a far less serious issues IMO his distro even did the work!

How about this for an idea...you send your collectors who clearly care about these things a populated playfield. You then have them return the populated one from their machine with the pooling, you QA it and you then re-sell it as a standard edition "scratch and dent" style to an operator at a reduced rate.

Problem solved!!

...and that is why they won't send you a populated playfield.

Really, it's the only reason to keep them from attempting to make their customers happy / whole. They have to know the replacements they are sending out are bad, too.

It appears that people recognized pooling issues on JJP Pirates and it continued into Wonka. JJP initially didn’t much of anything as far as I can tell to rectify the issue or even acknowledge that there was a problem to even begin with. I imagine distributors had to be made aware of these issues as well, but that didn’t stop anyone from selling defective games.

I used to buy games from Jack when he was a distributor for Stern, but I’m very disappointed in how he responded and handled these issues. Definitely gives me pause when considering any future JJP titles. Pinball is expensive and this is unacceptable.

Agreed. The manufactures can create a special heavily cushioned, "reusable" package to ship out the new populated PF. And the old one is returned back to the manufacturer (at their cost) in the same package. Hell I would even be willing to give them a REFUNDABLE credit-card payment of a couple of grand, if that would facilitate the exchange. They can even dismantle the damaged PF, and harvest the parts for resale, or warranty replacement when needed. I work for an industry that does this very thing very successfully.

But as has already been said. The replacement PF will likely encounter the issue too. So we are right back to "they should make a quality product right out of the gate". Maybe they should send the damn playfields to Mexico once they are painted, and have them sprayed with the ozone eating, Polar Bear drowning, tree-huger hating, Greta Thunberg crying, GOOD old fashioned, hard as a freaking rock clearcoat, just like what was used back in the "old days".

PLAYFIELD LIVES MATTER!!!

I got bagged on this earlier, but I think its 100% true. I don't think JJP has the cash flow to rectify these play field issues. I suspect they went to Mirco and made him pay for his shitty play fields so they had no out of pocket costs. JJP's solution to provide a "free" play field is a complete joke. Why should the customer who paid $12.5K for a NEW game have to spend his time doing a play field swap? or take the hit on the resale value of the game?

While I think you're right on the cashflow aspect for JJP, I have a slightly different opinion on the unpopulated playfield aspect. While I realize I'm in the minority here, I have no issues getting an unpopulated playfield and would welcome the learning experience doing the playfield swap myself.

Jeff

I welcome you over at my house to do the swap once my playfield comes in

but would you welcome being told that the second playfield is NOT under warranty because you populated it?

Because that is where you will end up - "Sorry. You installed this wrong."

When it comes to buying NIB...

1_T8tGc8RTgUbbr8VB2ClNag (resized).jpeg

Wouldn't it be easier to just make a quality playfield to begin with?

JJP ordered a perfectly fine playfield from Mirco and paid Mirco in prefectly fine Euros, they are not at fault as a manufacturer for the initial issue.

They are as much victim as the rest of us.

I'm all for Jack making these owners whole, but with the low production of this game, we both know, no one is taking a loss on resale.

So the EPA is responsible for this crappy clear ?

And when you realize that you received a defective product but decide to use it anyways and sell to customers.. Who is at fault then?

I stated that very thing in #4121 less than an hour ago.

In a large part yes.

I agree with that also but then again you dont see CGC having any problems.

Kinda like going thru a drive thru and not opening the bag to check your food until you get home and you decide to eat it anyway instead of returning it.

on this particular game your probably correct although its certainly not the norm....

Agreed. I went over my BM66 with a fine toothed comb when I read about this stuff and luckily no issues. I do hope JJP figures something out for these owners. I would also love to get a new POTC, now that they seem to have their clearcoat issues figured out (according to statements from newer run Wonka owners).

This makes even less sense than "tree huger."

I bought a used POTC LE that had less than 50 games on it. My play field has very minor pooling (u have to look really hard to notice), but zero chipping.

Lol, not quite..

They sell POTC new still?

I just got a MBR LE. It was sitting in the warehouse for 3 months before I got it...I can barely see divots from ball...you have to look very closely and same goes for my POTC JJP which has a ton of plays on it already...it looks great.

only issue I had was when the fix to put rubber washers underneath, 1 wasn't centered so it picked up the artwork slightly...so I centered it over post, can't see it now and have really no issues that I can see...just a very slight pooling, but that hasn't changed in 3 months.

No, but I hope they get back on the line, at some point, now that the cc issues are resolved.

Always good to see what is and what isn't covered under written warranty especially when making large purchases. Never expect something that is not covered will be.

If a problem occurs that is not covered or is out of warranty, it might be about now you approach the company that gets results. And how the company takes care of the problem can also help decide if they have a future in the business they are in.

Oh man... Im here about to (waiting) pull the trigger on a new Wonka thinking it would be my last pin since im about out of room. And now you say that! lol haha

I guess everyone is right. It wont be my last pin... before I have to do some trading..

Problem there is CGC is not putting thick CC on their MBr playfields that I know of... they are using a final clear layer but only as thick as a regular silk-screened layer of ink/pigmented laquer. Its a thick total package, like 11 screens worth of 9 trapped colors, and several untrapped ones. They are basically making them exactly like WMS, minus a diamond plate CC. At least thats what I was told. Mine looked awesome, doesnt have pooling or chipping, but it’s not very dimple resistant at all, but it is better than Stern or JJP IMO. With 6 months of HUO, it looks like its been on site somewhere so thats not very good, but the airballs from Frank’s feet and the hopping scoop kickout during MB makes them even more energetic and without diamond plate CC protection, this thing is getting Bashed...

Buy the Wonka,you won’t regret it!
It’s very possible that POTC never gets put back in production.Thats all speculation.

And remember to think twice about posting any problems with the playfield you might have once it arrives.

He can post anything he wants.Ive posted numerous times that the second run of Wonka’s,which I have one of are pooling and chipping free!The first run did have pooling and chipping.

I didn't assume anything. I stated they put you in an NDA type situation so you won't talk about it. I never said there were any legalities involved.

They're not counting on you being "nice"... they are counting on your hope that your silence will get you a favorable outcome.

I just found it amusing that when a customer suggests the same kind of thing there is outrage.

.