Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Are the rumors out of CES 2020 true about this revolutionary anti dimple pinball?!
[quoted image]

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

So is it fair to say that pooling and chipping is now under control due to the thinner layer of cc being applied? That was my understanding from reading previous posts.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Are the rumors out of CES 2020 true about this revolutionary anti dimple pinball?!
[quoted image]

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Are the rumors out of CES 2020 true about this revolutionary anti dimple pinball?!
[quoted image]

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

So is it fair to say that pooling and chipping is now under control due to the thinner layer of cc being applied? That was my understanding from reading previous posts.

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

I also believe that people are taking photos (posted on pinside and social media) of the stuffed playfields and putting bogus claims in to Stern saying it is their machine. Hoping to get a free playfield. This makes it very hard for Stern to work out which claims are genuine and which claims are not. I have not posted or given anyone photos of our 3lvira playfield. Surprise surprise no one else has the same issue..

Quoted from Who-Dey:

You should never buy a NIB game because you wont be happy.

Quoted from donkadelic:

Ah so that makes it acceptable then? Sad state of affairs in this hobby when customers accept these kind of trash products.
And again, plenty of modern machines that don't dimple and aren't branded Stern, why is that?

Quoted from Darkwing:

I’ve bought four NIB games and three of the four were fine. Still feels like a loot crate even with my (apparently lucky!) 75% success rate.
I also don’t buy the newer/faster reason why some playfields dimple and some don’t. I’ve had my Tron for about five years now, bought it NIB, and it’s not cratered at all. I wax it often and it plays meeean. Not worth getting mad and arguing about, just doesn’t add up for me.

Quoted from snaroff:

Hard to work out which claims are genuine? Doesn't make sense to me. Seems like time/location stamped photos, along with a distributor confirmation (vouching for the customer/game) seems like it should be enough. No? Shit, even obtaining replacement parts involves a Stern "handshake/approval" from the distributor.

Quoted from NPO:

Johnny Mnemonic is arguably the fastest game in the DMD era. You hit that orbital 3 or 4 times in a row, and it is nearly timing and sheer instincts to keep it going. Sooner or later, you lose the ball, and it is careening off something. In 25 years of existence, my JM PF has zero craters like newer Sterns....

Quoted from Who-Dey:

So you are telling me that your tron didnt dimple at all? I'd like to see some pics under light.

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

How many times has a distro come to your place to personally inspect your warranty claim?
Time and location stamps on photos are easily changed. Ever taken a photo of a photo?
I am only explaining what has been said to me is happening. Believe what ever you wish.
If you want to get a warranty claim through from Stern you need a good distro to help you out, I agree with you. My wife and I have a fantastic distro.

Quoted from EricHadley:

My Tron LE does not have dimples. My LOTR does not have dimples. My TSPP does not have dimples. My Black SM does not have dimples, but starting with my Star Trek LE and onward.....dimple fest. The old stuff was different somehow. We’ll never know the secret sauce.

Quoted from DaMoib:

That baby will fly a lot further... that's for sure!

Quoted from snaroff:

No...I've never taken a photo of a photo for the purposes of committing fraud.
Buyers have a warranty and distributor. In many instances, the distributor has done business with the person before and can vouch for them (even if they can't personally inspect the game). Games have identification that can be cross checked with Stern and the distro.
It's not a matter of believing what I wish. It's a matter of knowing your rights and fighting for them. Just because someone has committed fraud doesn't mean loyal customers need to be screwed/denied! I'm not talking to you, since you apparently feel you are in a good place with your distributor.

Quoted from libtech:

All playfields will dimple, but CPR explained it a few pages back - its obvious due to cost stern must have thinned the layers or switched composition of the wood in the plywood because he mentioned its much cheaper. And you get deeper dimples since the maple layer isnt as thick and dense.
Just like it appears cheaper clears that lift and chip, they keep pumping out a shit product because people buy it.

Quoted from donkadelic:

again, wrong, all playfields don't dimple.
for future reference these three things are 100% false despite people repeating them over and over again.
1. all playfields have always dimpled
no. majority of bw era games and 2000-2009 era sterns, modern spookys, etc do not dimple (overall).
2. dimples level out over time.
again, no. scientifically and physically inaccurate. varying depth craters will not even out across an entire playfield unless you play probably millions upon millions of games. and also, if this were the case why dont playfields come predimpled?
3. older games are slower so they had less dimpling.
again, a lot of these 30 year old games still have no dimpling. not a ratio of dimples relative to speed. also, when a ball leaves a playfield it drops from the same height regardless of speed. could it theoretically cause more airballs on newer games given the right conditions, sure. but could older games also produce more airballs provided certain conditions...yep.
also, pointing out single examples of a bally game or a tna with dimples does not mean the majority of them have them. modern stern games, i can't find a single elvira or stranger things that doesnt have horrible dimpling days in. not saying they aren't out there, but the ratio has to be horrible even if they are.

Quoted from Who-Dey:

Well there you have it folks. The new guy on Pinside knows more about pinball than all of you old folks that have been into the hobby for many years, including VID!

Quoted from donkadelic:

again, wrong, all playfields don't dimple.
for future reference these three things are 100% false despite people repeating them over and over again.
1. all playfields have always dimpled
no. majority of bw era games and 2000-2009 era sterns, modern spookys, etc do not dimple (overall).
2. dimples level out over time.
again, no. scientifically and physically inaccurate. varying depth craters will not even out across an entire playfield unless you play probably millions upon millions of games. and also, if this were the case why dont playfields come predimpled?
3. older games are slower so they had less dimpling.
again, a lot of these 30 year old games still have no dimpling. not a ratio of dimples relative to speed. those 2000-era stern games tspp in particular has crazy airballs.
also, when a ball leaves a playfield it drops from the same height regardless of speed. could it theoretically cause more airballs on newer games given the right conditions, sure. but could older games also produce more airballs provided certain conditions...yep.
and pointing out single examples of a bally game or a tna with dimples does not mean the majority of them have them. also pointing out minor dimpling under close-up and the right lighting is not what people are complaining about.
modern stern games, i can't find a single elvira or stranger things that doesnt have horrible dimpling days in. giant craters viewable from a playing angle at all times. i'm not saying 100% of modern sterns have this problem...but out of the dozen or so jp2/elvira/stranger things ive seen lately they all had it. and yes, anecdotal i know.

Quoted from Who-Dey:

Well there you have it folks. The new guy on Pinside knows more about pinball than all of you old folks that have been into the hobby for many years, including VID!

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

So is it fair to say that pooling and chipping is now under control due to the thinner layer of cc being applied? That was my understanding from reading previous posts.

Quoted from o-din:

We might want to stop using the word dimple and go with crater when it comes to today's playfields to help end some of the confusion.

Quoted from o-din:

I think I'll go back to playing my No Fear and just leave this here.

Quoted from o-din:

Yeah, right.
All I know is this game plays way faster than that moon cratered BM66 I had for a few months. That thing had a surface with the hardness of bubble gum.

Quoted from PBFan:

Interesting thread.
Everytime I end up linking to a thread that references dimples I run down to the basement and check my playfields looking for dimples and I can never find any. All my Stern pins are HUO (Xmen, TWD, Metallica, Spiderman LOTR, Tron LE, Iron Man) and none of them has any visible dimpling. Ball swirls yes but no dimpling. My TZ, Shadow and even my very well routed Tales From The Crypt do not have any dimpling. The Tales has wear on the scoop and the Shadow had a worn (now repaired) sanctum area. The Tales even has a few dings (not golf ball like dimples) in the playfield and the Xmen even has a little bit of wear around the edges of the Blackbird scoop - but no signs of dimpling (from any angle). My TWD has dimpling on the outer magnet ring but NONE on the wooden playfield - weird but true. My HUO games don't get a lot of play - my IM for example has about 3,500 games and my Tron about 2,500 games. My MET (most played in my collection) would have about 5,000 games.
While I do agree that all wooden playfields must dimple to some extent when impacted by a metal ball - not all games/playfields are created equal because I have seen examples of games where the playfields look very dimpled after fewer than a 100 plays. If you have to put your nose to the playfield and use a magnifying glass to see dimples then they really don't matter but if the playfield art looks pixelized from the light reflecting from all the dimple faces from 3 feet away (while playing) then I can understand why those aesthetics matter to many people when they have just spent thousands of dollars on a new pin.
Dimpling doesn't really affect gameplay so it can be overlooked by many people but not to everyone. It is a matter of opinion as to how serious the issue is but that is the purpose of a discussion forum. We shouldn't be taking a difference of opinion as a personal rejection.
I personally hate the look of a dimpled playfield where the dimples are easily visible when playing. However, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game when I am playing someone else's but I wouldn't want to own it if I had the choice of a nicer looking playfield. Why do some playfields scar easier than others? I don't know but they just do. Why does it bother some people more than others? I don't know but it does. I accept that.
Now playfield chipping and ink-lifting (on new pins) - well now that is a bigger issue.
Keep on flippin folks!

Quoted from jellikit:

An obligatory vid1900 image.[quoted image]

Quoted from Yelobird:

Ok then explain why in all the dimple pics you Rarely see any in the insert areas only on the painted wood surfaces? It’s the Wood. Yes clear is soft and causes issues (dozen threads to prove that) but not the dimpling.

Quoted from HighVoltage:

I'd sooner ask where are the pictures that show dimpling stopping at an insert and continuing on either side? I actually haven't seen those, would like to. But below is one that shows the dimpling running right across the insert.
Some are in the camp that the clear plays no role in dimpling, it's strictly related to the wood, and the wood hasn't change. The observations I've made over dozens of machines of all types suggest this can't be the case. Either the wood isn't consistent, or the clear plays a role in the dimpling too. Pictures like this suggest the latter.
[quoted image]

Quoted from okgrak:

Is this considered “pooling”?[quoted image]

Quoted from Vinnie:

Yes. I hate to say it but it will probably chip soon.

Quoted from okgrak:

Is this considered “pooling”?[quoted image]

Quoted from Vinnie:

Yes. I hate to say it but it will probably chip soon.

Quoted from Vinnie:

I hate to say it but it will probably chip soon.

Quoted from o-din:

At least it will be an improvement over the current art on there.

Quoted from Yoko2una:

That's more than pooling, it's a clear coat tsunami!

Quoted from DakotaMike:

I always imagine that Vid1900 actually looks like the "Tall Man" in real life. Makes me chuckle. Speaking of Vid and his absence, I wonder if Vid is actually in the other dimension right now, lording over a tiny undead-workforce as we speak. Its as good an explanation as any for his disappearance.[quoted image]

Quoted from okgrak:

Is this considered “pooling”?

Quoted from HighVoltage:

I'd sooner ask where are the pictures that show dimpling stopping at an insert and continuing on either side? I actually haven't seen those, would like to. But below is one that shows the dimpling running right across the insert.
Some are in the camp that the clear plays no role in dimpling, it's strictly related to the wood, and the wood hasn't change. The observations I've made over dozens of machines of all types suggest this can't be the case. Either the wood isn't consistent, or the clear plays a role in the dimpling too. Pictures like this suggest the latter.
[quoted image]

Quoted from Yelobird:

Ok fair enough but do you have a picture of an insert Not being directly fired on by a VUK?