(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

9 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 5,316 posts
  • 510 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 hour ago by jorant
  • Topic is favorited by 142 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 562 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

pasted_image (resized).png
Screenshot_20200521-213132_Twitter (resized).jpg
unnamed (resized).jpg
642032C2-C6C1-418C-BE3C-8B1D8C4A3B31 (resized).jpeg
9A527BE9-B958-4049-A9ED-B98A2BB42AE7 (resized).jpeg
7D63E251-6521-4714-849C-7DD28C5B78FE (resized).jpeg
download.jpeg-1 (resized).jpg
30F998F8-9EDE-4115-83BE-8048FFE5698E (resized).jpeg
EA9C65D9-3232-44A3-A0E2-4C34C6920BE8 (resized).jpeg
DE610629-B54A-484F-9195-D74E5C40E729 (resized).jpeg
A820B0A7-D9D1-48C6-95B5-3EAA4B6F5430 (resized).jpeg
IMDN2 (resized).JPG
IMDN (resized).JPG
DP2 (resized).JPG
DP (resized).JPG
tenor (2).gif

There are 5316 posts in this topic. You are on page 74 of 107.
#3651 5 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Local JP pro here on location appears to have peeling clearcoat in places now. Born in August 2019.[quoted image][quoted image]

Shit, this person needs a new playfield more than I do. I noticed some pitting (Not dimples - actual pin holes) on mine day one. It is minor, I didn’t report. This shit has to stop Stern.
Mine is also an August build.

#3652 5 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I hope I'm wrong, but I think JJP is running out of gas....my bet is investors have thrown down the gauntlet and said either make money or were gonna sell off your assets...

I sure hope not.
Beautiful games match by none.

I think wonka was pretty much destroyed due to mirco.

#3653 5 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I hope I'm wrong, but I think JJP is running out of gas....my bet is investors have thrown down the gauntlet and said either make money or were gonna sell off your assets...

I think that's the real reason Pirates production stopped. JJP is done making super loaded pins with multiple complex mechs. They likely want to start releasing two games a year that offer less mechanical features then their past games yet still retain the deep code work and quality they are known for all at a lower price (and increase in profit, especially with higher end models). Wonka is the start of that new direction for JJP.

#3654 5 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Not unless the whole upper playfield comes from the factory that way.

Stern puts mylar in the pop bumpers area.

11
#3655 5 months ago

Stranger Things about 2 days old. Tons of dimpling the surface appears to be like putty. Particularly pronounced in a game with a ramp shot that airballs all over the playfield. It's hard to tell from the picture but the dimpling is all over the playfield, 100s of dimples. Probably every single time the ball leaves the playfield.

Side note had to tilt in 2 out of 6 games. Ball gets stuck? behind the gorgon or something... Also ball flying everywhere off ramps which wobble a little too much. Art package is boring, game looks and feels super cheap. On the positive side the game layout is pretty fun and super fast. Code needs a ton of work though (as usual).

But the fact that people are still buying this company's products and/or saying this level of dimpling is acceptable or somehow "evens out" is idiotic.

TkbM6me (resized).jpg

#3656 5 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

Stranger Things about 2 days old. Tons of dimpling the surface appears to be like putty. Particularly pronounced in a game with a ramp shot that airballs all over the playfield. It's hard to tell from the picture but the dimpling is all over the playfield, 100s of dimples. Probably every single time the ball leaves the playfield.
Side note had to tilt in 2 out of 6 games. Ball gets stuck? behind the gorgon or something... Also ball flying everywhere off ramps which wobble a little too much. Art package is boring, game looks and feels super cheap. On the positive side the game layout is pretty fun and super fast. Code needs a ton of work though (as usual).
But the fact that people are still buying this company's products and/or saying this level of dimpling is acceptable or somehow "evens out" is idiotic.
[quoted image]

Wow that dimpling sucks bad....

#3657 5 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

Stranger Things about 2 days old. Tons of dimpling the surface appears to be like putty. Particularly pronounced in a game with a ramp shot that airballs all over the playfield.
The fact that people are still buying this company's products and/or saying this level of dimpling is acceptable or somehow "evens out" is idiotic.[quoted image]

That's "depressing."

#3658 5 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

Stranger Things about 2 days old. Tons of dimpling the surface appears to be like putty. Particularly pronounced in a game with a ramp shot that airballs all over the playfield. It's hard to tell from the picture but the dimpling is all over the playfield, 100s of dimples. Probably every single time the ball leaves the playfield.
Side note had to tilt in 2 out of 6 games. Ball gets stuck? behind the gorgon or something... Also ball flying everywhere off ramps which wobble a little too much. Art package is boring, game looks and feels super cheap. On the positive side the game layout is pretty fun and super fast. Code needs a ton of work though (as usual).
But the fact that people are still buying this company's products and/or saying this level of dimpling is acceptable or somehow "evens out" is idiotic.
[quoted image]

3kyz65 (resized).jpg
#3659 5 months ago

That is precisely what I saw on a new Elvira LE last week. Thay are not dimples, but rather craters.

According to this, Steve Ritchey says its normal.

#3660 5 months ago

f99de13b59616ebb5707d9ddff5547680108318a (resized).jpg3893d191c8e89b1af3de9dde478e375247c4b000 (resized).jpg

#3661 5 months ago

"dingle dimple"

#3662 5 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

"dingle dimple"

Sounds like something my wife would call me lol.

#3663 5 months ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

That is precisely what I saw on a new Elvira LE last week. Thay are not dimples, but rather craters.
According to this, Steve Ritchey says its normal.

I reckon there is nothing to see here. FTR, I have yet to find a dingle dimple on my 90's William's Bally pins.

Wow. That has to be a joke....

#3664 5 months ago

I’m glad Stern was able to fix the pooling issues and resort back to the “shitty dimples” formula. Hopefully cabinets start cracking again as well. It’ll feel like 2017 all over again!

#3665 5 months ago
Quoted from Crash:

[quoted image][quoted image]

That's a good example of a lot of dimpling blending together.

The pic below is from a Batman 66 premium that was on location for probably 6 months. Something at Stern has changed with either the wood or clear coat process as the dimpling looks more severe (deeper dimpling) than that from games made 20 years ago.

2fa7c96940408e7c43657bca7a41b8535b91e0bf (resized).jpg

#3666 5 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

That's a good example of a lot of dimpling blending together.
The pic below is from a Batman 66 premium that was on location for probably 6 months. Something at Stern has changed with either the wood or clear coat process as the dimpling looks more severe (deeper dimpling) than that from games made 20 years ago.
[quoted image]

Although I disagree with dimpling in general being an issue, I do see what you mean between between Williams and Stern. We already know Stern and JJP's clearcoat is inferior and/or applied incorrectly.

#3667 5 months ago
Quoted from Crash:

Although I disagree with dimpling in general being an issue, I do see what you mean between between Williams and Stern. We already know Stern and JJP's clearcoat is inferior and/or applied incorrectly.

Yeah, dimpling is definitely normal. It just seems like a lot of modern playfields are dimpling deeper.

This is a long but informative post from Mike at CPR about the type of wood used at CPR and other manufacturers. This may be why modern Stern's are dimpling more severely than games made 20 years ago and those today at CPR.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cpr-playfield-preorders-are-meaningless?tq=&tu=CPR

"Guys;

I have to jump in here as well, on four issues. The first was the Xenon PFs that we ran out of last year. The Xenon's I cut were in no way shape or form ever going to satisfy the entire interest but at the time I had the wood and inserts for a very limited number of PFs. I decided that rather than idle the CNC and layoff the guys it made more since to actually make the PFs I had materials for at the time. The rest of the material had been ordered but the lead times on our materials can be HUGE! It just made since to keep everyone employed and the machines working while new supplies were on route.

The second point I have to comment on is our wood. I absolutely believe that our wood is by FAR the best in the world. We have had many suppliers over the years and in bad times have been forced to use the same wood as the other PF manufacturer uses all the time and let me tell you that doing so is our last resort. Playfield wood over the decades has often been whatever was available to the manufacturers. Many PFs especially in the 70s and 80s PFs used three layers of thick cheap filler wood with two thin layers of maple on the faces, something you could buy at your local building supply only with thicker face veneers. For decades most of the better playfield wood came from North American Plywood near Chicago. It used sweet gum as its filler cores and .040" face veneers. But in 2008 in the downturn they liquidated their custom plywood mill and everyone was scrambling to find wood, even Stern. We then shifted to Marion Plywood from Wisconsin who made two very good orders for us before they shifted their glues to a more green product that warped like crazy. We even tried a Russian Baltic Birch that had custom maple veneers glued to it. It was expensive and unsuitable for several reasons. Finally, the current supplier for Stern contacted us and offered to make our wood. This was several years ago now and we couldn't have been happier as they work directly with us to produce the very best CUSTOM wood you can buy ANYWHERE! Their standard wood for Stern is a good one side panel with 3 layers of white ash and a 0.048" face veneers. After many consultations with their tech guys we came up with what I know is the best playfield wood in the world. We use the same basic setup as Stern, 3 layers of white ash cores then we use 4 layers of maritime hard maple BUT we increased the thickness of the two face veneers by 64% to get a nominal face thickness of 0.075". These huge and thick ONE piece veneers are crazy expensive and we always get this top grade veneer on BOTH sides of your PF. This alone added $12 to the cost of each panel vs just using a second grade veneer on the bottom like Stern does. There's nothing wrong with the way Stern does it, as they just refuse any board they want and since they are so close to the mill, the mill just picks it up with the next load and credits them. We however are a $4000 freight bill away so that won't work. We pay a lot extra to get the very best wood they can produce right off the start. You get a much nicer product and a much denser and tougher PF. This wood is 25% heavier for the same size panel as our old wood and nearly a third heavier as Baltic Birch which some other playfield manufacturers use. I would love to use cheaper wood like some others do, after all why would I pay $12.50/sqft landed when I can get birch at less than $2.00sqft? We use the best densest hardest custom wood we can get because we think its worth it and we always try to make the very best product we can.

There are other point is that we intentionally make three levels of quality. Wow, really? We always try to make perfect playfields, every single time but in the past we ALWAYS did full spot color silkscreens which meant that each and every color layer is individually vectored with trapping layers built and silk screened one color at a time, one on top of the other. 14 colors means 14 trips through the screen press. 14! Even the slightest misalignment in any single layer of the normal 12-14 color process means the final product isn't a gold anymore. Its wood, a living surface so if the ink doesn't lay down into every nook and cranny of every square mm of the grain then its not a gold. If a single piece of dust get in the screen and makes its way into the print which is very hard to prevent then its really not a gold anymore. To screen press a playfield we could never do more than about 1 color a day just due to the logistics of cleaning the ink you just used out of the screen trying to save what you can, then removing the screen and washing it with cleaner and paper towels, then once the ink is out, rinsing and then using a stripper to remove the image from the screen, then rinsing, then bleaching the screen to remove all traces of the previous image, rinsing, then drying the screen. Then you have to coat the screen with a photosensitive liquid and let that dry. Then you lay on your full size and expensive direct contact positive and expose the whole thing to a powerful UV light, then immediately wash the screen once more to expose the image which means a third drying of the screen! Then mount it and align it precisely to the previous image on the screen press, which always involves a few trial and error hits on test prints. Add in a cleaned and sharpened squeegee and print your single color...... now repeat this process for each and every color on the playfield. Any misalignment at all, even as small as 1/64"in ANY layer and you may not have a gold, any mark from handing and small dropout of ink, and deep grain that the ink didn't get to and you may not have a gold anymore. Screen printing is many many times harder to do than printing it digitally. Producing artwork for screen printing is horrendously more difficult than prepping something for a digital print. We are very lucky that we have years worth of vectored artwork that can fairly easily be converted for digital use to be used on our big flatbed but you can't go the other way. If you printed 100 PFs and have 10 that are not perfect you had no choice but to sell them, hence silvers and bronze. It could take you as long as 2 weeks to reprint those 10 PFs. Now if you are doing these on a digital printer you have eliminated ANY chance of a misalignment because its a single flat image not 12-14 images laid on top of one another, the printer is spraying, so surface imperfections are easily covered and there is no screen to get contaminated. So for screen printing, since the artwork is many times more complex in comparison and the printing method is many times more complex its no wonder that we didn't always get 100% gold. Of course if you have something go sideways on a digital print it takes but minutes to sand the ink off and clean it up and run it through the printer once again, $8 in inks costs versus basically spending two weeks trying to rescreen a few seconds. But now that we have the same tech as others we can also fairly easily reprint an error so there will be much fewer silver and bronzes in our future.

Making the right number of PFs for everyone is more art than anything else. Playfields are crazy expensive to make and the production costs are all up front. In some cases royalties and licensing alone can cost as high as 25% of the full retail value of the PF, do some quick math and figure out the size of the check you'd have to write to cover that on 100 pfs!! Inserts can cost $25-$100 per PF due to minimum requirements of the molders. You can figure out our wood costs from above. Add in the costs of 2 CNCs, 2 laser cutters, a silk screen operation, a huge UV flatbed etc.... now figure that 50% of the guys who signed up don't buy!! In the case of Corvette PFs we had 75% of people who signed up didn't purchase as they promised! Have two or three of these happen in a row and anyone would become gun shy real quick or we risk losing our homes! I tried deposits when I first started this and it was a nightmare, lately we have on rare occasions used them again with much more success so maybe that's a possibility but truthfully making smaller numbers is the safest thing to do. Using the digital system instead of silk screening makes much more sense and having the ability to digitally reprint our screen printed seconds may get rid of them almost entirely.

Making PFs is complex, silk screening playfields is stoopid complex and expensive in the very small numbers we make but we do it because we love it.

Mike"

11
#3668 5 months ago

And yet at the end of the day no widespread dimpling problems with Spooky, American or CGC.

Funny how that works.

#3669 5 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

And yet at the end of the day no widespread dimpling problems with Spooky, American or CGC.
Funny how that works.

None of the JJP games I've owned ever had dimpling like that...they dimpled, but nothing like that....my Stern AC/DC, and Met had excessive dimpling

#3670 5 months ago

I'd be curious to see if some of these super dimpled Stern playfields accidentally got cut on the bad side instead of the good side. Hey Gary, why not raise the price from $5,899 to $5911 and stop giving us a shit playfield surface?

#3671 5 months ago

Guys all playfields dimple, EVERY brand, JJP, CGC, SPOOKY, STERN, all of them. Also while i have seen some really bad dimpling, that BM66 pic is blown up and magnified in perfect lighting. That is not what you see when you walk up to the game and look at it. I could care less about dimpling, just give me a playfield that the clearcoat isn't pooling and chipping off of it.

13
#3672 5 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

And yet at the end of the day no widespread dimpling problems with Spooky, American or CGC.

I wouldn't go that far. AFMr on location.

AFMr orange peel (resized).jpg

#3673 5 months ago

That's because dimpling is not a problem. Every game does it. The difference is you have crappy clear coat and it becomes much more pronounced to the point that it is a problem.

#3674 5 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

That's a good example of a lot of dimpling blending together.
The pic below is from a Batman 66 premium that was on location for probably 6 months. Something at Stern has changed with either the wood or clear coat process as the dimpling looks more severe (deeper dimpling) than that from games made 20 years ago.
[quoted image]

You should see the on-location Ghostbusters near me. Makes BM66 look good.

#3675 5 months ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

I wouldn't go that far. AFMr on location.
[quoted image]

And if you were to blow that pic up really big it would look as bad as that BM66, not sure why people downvoted me when all I did was state the obvious. BM66 did simple worse than most games though, no question about it.

My TWD, GOT, and GB all three dimpled really bad but of you look at them now after a couple thousand plays they dont look bad at all. You cant see the dumpling unless you hold a light up to them and they just look like an orange peel. I'm actually very picky but that doesnt bother me at all, I just play them and have fun.

#3676 5 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

And yet at the end of the day no widespread dimpling problems with Spooky, American or CGC.
Funny how that works.

Both show better in person due to lighting. I should also note that not all dimples are created equal.
IMG_20191218_173100 (resized).jpgIMG_20191218_173431 (resized).jpg

#3677 5 months ago
Quoted from jellikit:

Both show better in person due to lighting. I should also note that not all dimples are created equal.
[quoted image][quoted image]

IMG_20191219_144142 (resized).jpg
#3678 5 months ago

The only games I've ever owned that had no dimples was my TZ and my LOTRLE.....shocking, but both those games had zero dimpling...all the others dimple, which is fine...

#3679 5 months ago

All these dimples make me wonder.....

Why don’t they compress the wood in a big press before they color print and clear the playfield?

Not a wood guy but there must be a reason they don’t.

#3680 5 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

All these dimples make me wonder.....
Why don’t they compress the wood in a big press before they color print and clear the playfield?
Not a wood guy but there must be a reason they don’t.

How much and when will it expand after that compression?

The right question is ofc why they havent given up on a live material, like wood,when there are so much better composite materials theese days, also easier to addere new pigments to.

#3681 5 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

And if you were to blow that pic up really big it would look as bad as that BM66, not sure why people downvoted me when all I did was state the obvious. BM66 did simple worse than most games though, no question about it.
My TWD, GOT, and GB all three dimpled really bad but of you look at them now after a couple thousand plays they dont look bad at all. You cant see the dumpling unless you hold a light up to them and they just look like an orange peel. I'm actually very picky but that doesnt bother me at all, I just play them and have fun.

Downvoting is supposedly just for when someone disagrees but most people take downvotes personally.

It's the way social media mirrors being in a school playground.

Can you tell I am against it?

#3682 5 months ago

If dimples are gonna be a issue for people than you all might as well find a new hobby bc all playfields dimple to some extent. Some are definitely worse off than others and seems most of the newer sterns were the worst offenders from my experience but it still don't bother me as its gonna happen .

#3683 5 months ago

The first 100 games on my TNA left dimples all over the place. The reactor map had it's own terrain. After nearly 1000 games the playfield looks like an orange peel and is looking nicer after each session of games.

#3684 5 months ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

The right question is ofc why they havent given up on a live material, like wood,when there are so much better composite materials theese days, also easier to addere new pigments to.

Probably because cost to produce would be higher, plus significant cost of reinventing supply chain.

#3685 5 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Local JP pro here on location appears to have peeling clearcoat in places now. Born in August 2019.

#3686 5 months ago
Quoted from twhtalm:

The first 100 games on my TNA left dimples all over the place. The reactor map had it's own terrain. After nearly 1000 games the playfield looks like an orange peel and is looking nicer after each session of games.

And yet no significant problems with ACNC. Problems happen, good companies solve them. Bad companies sweep things under the rug...

I'm not saying there are no instances of problems with CGC and Spooky playfields, just that those problems are in the past. Can't say the same for Stern and JJP though...

#3687 5 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

All these dimples make me wonder.....
Why don’t they compress the wood in a big press before they color print and clear the playfield?
Not a wood guy but there must be a reason they don’t.

Better yet why don't they "pre-dimple" the playfield so it's even?

Quoted from bigd1979:

If dimples are gonna be a issue for people than you all might as well find a new hobby bc all playfields dimple to some extent. Some are definitely worse off than others and seems most of the newer sterns were the worst offenders from my experience but it still don't bother me as its gonna happen .

Wrong, all playfields do not dimple to some extent, and the ones that do don't leave giant craters after 1 day of play. It's this kind of attitude that allows these companies to keep screwing over it's customers for 6000$ toys with about 1800$ worth of parts and labor. Don't allow defects to become the norm, no other hobbyist industry would allow this shit.

#3688 5 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

And yet no significant problems with ACNC. Problems happen, good companies solve them. Bad companies sweep things under the rug...
I'm not saying there are no instances of problems with CGC and Spooky playfields, just that those problems are in the past. Can't say the same for Stern and JJP though...

I have dimples on my ACNC, they don't affect play but under the right light I can see them clear as day.

#3689 5 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

And yet no significant problems with ACNC. Problems happen, good companies solve them. Bad companies sweep things under the rug...
I'm not saying there are no instances of problems with CGC and Spooky playfields, just that those problems are in the past. Can't say the same for Stern and JJP though...

My post had nothing to do with QC and was directed at dimpling on one of the fastest and most violent games to date. Keep playing and the dimples will normalize.

#3690 5 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

Wrong, all playfields do not dimple to some extent, and the ones that do don't leave giant craters after 1 day of play. It's this kind of attitude that allows these companies to keep screwing over it's customers for 6000$ toys with about 1800$ worth of parts and labor. Don't allow defects to become the norm, no other hobbyist industry would allow this shit.

No doubt PF quality has gone down over the past 5 years or so. Both cost cutting and aggressive time-to-market deadlines (for Stern in particular) are the likely causes. You say "Don't allow defects to become the norm"...what's your proposal?

#3691 5 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Local JP pro here on location appears to have peeling clearcoat in places now. Born in August 2019.[quoted image][quoted image]

Sweet Jesus! What do the balls look like?

#3692 5 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

No doubt PF quality has gone down over the past 5 years or so. Both cost cutting and aggressive time-to-market deadlines (for Stern in particular) are the likely causes. You say "Don't allow defects to become the norm"...what's your proposal?

Don't buy them. Buy spooky, cgc, american, and maybe jjp if they fix their chipping problem.

#3693 5 months ago
Quoted from twhtalm:

My post had nothing to do with QC and was directed at dimpling on one of the fastest and most violent games to date. Keep playing and the dimples will normalize.

Time and time again people repeat this talking point. And not one picture to prove it eventually "evens out". Quite frankly, scientifically, the idea is ludicrous. The craters are going to be varying sizes no matter what. Granted on some games maybe the dimpling is minimal to begin with, but I'm talking on a brand new out of the box Stranger Things here. And yes you can anecdotally say this company or that has dimpling issues here and there, but this is like 90% of the games off the line from Stern. These same locations that have week old machines dimpled to hell have 6-month old TNAs right next to them with not a single visible dimple, not 1.

#3694 5 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

Time and time again people repeat this talking point. And not one picture to prove it eventually "evens out". Quite frankly, scientifically, the idea is ludicrous. The craters are going to be varying sizes no matter what. Granted on some games maybe the dimpling is minimal to begin with, but I'm talking on a brand new out of the box Stranger Things here. And yes you can anecdotally say this company or that has dimpling issues here and there, but this is like 90% of the games off the line from Stern. These same locations that have week old machines dimpled to hell have 6-month old TNAs right next to them with not a single visible dimple, not 1.


20200102_115439 (resized).jpg20200102_115444 (resized).jpg20200102_115449 (resized).jpg
#3695 5 months ago

Not all playfields handle or show the same, new, old, and reproduction. For reference, the Road Show is HUO, lighting helps to show what is there. And for the record, I am not saying all playfields of any of these machines would/do look the same.

1 (resized).png3 (resized).png4 (resized).png5 (resized).jpg6 (resized).png
#3696 5 months ago

Okay I am going to eat a little bit of crow.

I just took a very close look at my CPR FH playfield, and it does have some dimples after-all. However, they are FAR less obvious and Far less numerous that what I am seeing on the new Sterns in person, and what has been shown in this thread. Also this playfield has easily upwards of 5000 plays during the 10 years I have owned it, and I even take to the annual expos around here. Needless to say, it gets a lot of play, and hard play at that. I actually tried to take a photo of them to post up here, but they don't really even show up in the pic even under heavy lighting.

In my opinion, there is plenty of room for improvement on the part of Stern to make a higher quality playfield, than what is currently being produced. If it requires an up-charge for harder, and higher quality wood, then tack on another $50 or so. If it means a harder, and higher quality clear-coat, then tack on another $50 or so. I honestly believe the NIB buyers would gladly pay a bit more it if it means that the obviousness of these dimples/craters, is greatly reduced on the playfield. I know I would, if I ever manage to buy an NIB pin. If its not feasible, or not possible to do the above, maybe its time to transition to a hardtop like overlay over top a composite surface like Masonite or similar.

The bottom line here is - a better quality playfield CAN be produced, IF Stern wants to produce it. But as has already been mentioned, the bean-counters are likely making the decision to force cost-reductions into the product, wherever possible, and the vast majority of folks are going to either never notice it, or they are simply going to be indifferent to it.

Hopefully Stern will at the very least, make an attempt to find some middle ground here, and consider some of the suggestions that you guys are putting forth. I believe it would be very foolish to continue status-quo.

#3697 5 months ago
Quoted from jellikit:

Not all playfields handle or show the same, new, old, and reproduction. For reference, the Road Show is HUO, lighting helps to show what is there. And for the record, I am not saying all playfields of any of these machines would/do look the same.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Are these all original playfields? Any repros in the mix?

#3698 5 months ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

I just took a very close look at my CPR FH playfield, and it does have some dimples after-all. However, they are FAR less obvious and Far less numerous that what I am seeing on the new Sterns

That’s because the new Sterns have much stronger flipper power and play alot faster than your funhouse does so have some more crow.

#3700 5 months ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

In my opinion, there is plenty of room for improvement on the part of Stern to make a higher quality playfield, than what is currently being produced. If it requires an up-charge for harder, and higher quality wood, then tack on another $50 or so. If it means a harder, and higher quality clear-coat, then tack on another $50 or so. I honestly believe the NIB buyers would gladly pay a bit more it if it means that the obviousness of these dimples/craters, is greatly reduced on the playfield. I know I would, if I ever manage to buy an NIB pin. If its not feasible, or not possible to do the above, maybe its time to transition to a hardtop like overlay over top a composite surface like Masonite or similar.
The bottom line here is - a better quality playfield CAN be produced, IF Stern wants to produce it. But as has already been mentioned, the bean-counters are likely making the decision to force cost-reductions into the product, wherever possible, and the vast majority of folks are going to either never notice it, or they are simply going to be indifferent to it.
Hopefully Stern will at the very least, make an attempt to find some middle ground here, and consider some of the suggestions that you guys are putting forth. I believe it would be very foolish to continue status-quo.

Totally agree...good post. The problem is Stern built it's business selling games to operators/arcades (who care less about the aesthetic issues collectors focus on). Collectors have always been 2nd class citizens...the Premium/LE distinction is more about margins/profit (especially the LE). If Stern respected the collector community, they would be much more open with us about the issues that concern us. Imagine a collector advisory board where collectors could talk to Stern executives face-to-face about the issues that concern us.

I'd prefer a 2-tier model...Pro & Premium. The Pro would remain unchanged and targeted @ operators. The Premium could be customized with both "traditional" options (e.g. power-coated armor, art blades, shaker, etc.) and more elaborate options like you suggest (upgraded PF wood/clear, improved audio w/external volume control, etc.). Unfortunately, my approach would likely slow Premium production (and the effect on the bottom line is unclear). Manufacturing pinball machines is already a tricky business...adding more options to the build process is harder to pull off, and unlikely to be adopted by Stern.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
Trade
Machine - For Trade
Fort Wayne, IN
$ 79.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Hookedonpinball.com
There are 5316 posts in this topic. You are on page 74 of 107.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside