They didn’t have a shipping date for the replacements yet. I heard Jan, but was told a couple of weeks ago by JJP they had no firm date.

Yeah but they arent populated playfields so its unacceptable and plus the thought that he was originally going to charge customers like 500 dollars for a replacement was an insult and enough for me to never ever buy a game from him.

He gave everyone a personal call that had a chipping playfield and buttered them up and made them gush all over themselves and forget about their shitty quality playfield. The correct thing to do would have been to call people and say I'm sorry that this happened and we will be sending you a populated playfield for your game.

I guess an unpopulated playfield is better than nothing but I personally find it unacceptable on any game that has a defect from the factory and totally unacceptable for a person that has a brand new game with a bad playfield.

Someday soon let us know these distributors so you save others from getting burned! Thx

Only reason I wont reveal who it is, is because I cant prove it with 100% that they didnt turn my ticket in but I will say this, even if they did turn my tickets in their communication and the way that they handle things sucks.

If shutting down stern's NIB purchase is what it takes for them to fucking realize that customer is always king and if they want to charge us top dollars then they better realize quality matters above all else than so be it.

And if they go out of business due to stern boycott, then that's on them, not us, the consumers that's putting food on their table. I'm not going to sit on the sideline and keep quiet for the fear of biggest pinball manufacturer to go out of business.

Trust me, there will be another stern when they fold, just like how stern got to the top when bally/williams folded.

Quality started going down after SM ? Around 2010?

Got graining on the playfields and then we got the dreaded, stupid pegs on Tron.

Can't remember if that was the first peg game.

Every year there have been issues, same responses and then a new game comes out and sells out.

People said they would never buy a new Stern with the switch in the head - did anyone stick to that?? That was one of the more annoying 'save a few cents ' move.

Trouble is Stern have made some of the best games ever, and they make em quick.

This has been worse than usual because the playfield is the worst place for QC errors.

He called me, POTC Collector Edition owner.

I sure didn't gush and told him my demands, pointing out that installing said replacement playfield will cost upwards of US$1000 as obviously neither him, Joe Newhard nor I have the time do do a swap.

He didn't give a shit, neither did Joe Newhard who went immediately silent in spite of him promising me before the sale (!!!) that I as a CE owner would get special treatment should there ever be such playfield issues. Yes, I brought the issue up before the purchase.

They both decided for me that I am getting an unpopulated playfield and that the joke is on me.
Have yet to even see that playfield.

I'm completely new to this hobby.
Well played alot, really alot back in the eighties and early ninties.

Started picking up the hobby again, since my health let me down abit persuing more active hobbies/Sports.

I'm planning on getting a couple of games for an up coming gameroom.

I was away on work a month ago, and tried some new and some old games at a local pinball club.

Unfortunately they didn't have any jjp-games but lots of sterns(imdn, ac/dc, sw, got. Gotg etc). They also had a afmr and some classic like teater of m, fishtales and such.

Afmr was really outstanding. Great fun and quality feel.
Imdn and tom where the next two, that stood out.
Imdn for shots and game play and tom for that magic, art and wow factoring. Tom really shined in that aspect.
Imdn had an Ikea feel, whilst tom was a faberge egg.

What also stood out was the general feel on Stern machines of beeing massproduced cheap toys.
Imdn had a playfield that looked like the moon.

I'm sorry to say this but that's what i saw.

I would really have liked to take tom and afmr home (maybe fishtales for nostagic reason)

Ed:
They had a lord of the rings Stern, that Actually visually stood out., but the GI was so bad and The place was so dark, i really Couldnt
Try it proper.

Umm, what?

The closest thing we have seen close to a Stern NIB boycott was this summer when estimates were about a $500k slowdown. It got Stern’s attention and we saw the no art areas/thinner clear playfields in response but that’s a band-aid not a fix. But the worst appears to be over and buyers seem to be picking up again. If last summer was the best the market can do, Stern will be just fine and not have to do anything more.

Stern isn’t in danger of folding over this because people keep moaning about QC and buying anyway. And if Stern does go out of business, there won’t be “another Stern”. Others may benefit but none will scale that large. Stern got to the top (such as it was) when WMS exited the business because they were the only game in town and was barely able to hang on long enough to survive.

Stern’s business model locks in distributors on new games before they have any idea what issues there might be. Stern/distributors then grab LE buyers from the theme fan pool with empty promises that past problems are behind us before anyone can see or play the game in person. I don’t remember the last time an LE hasn’t pretty much sold out in 3-4 weeks save for a flipper or two.

Stern has no real incentive to fix the playfield quality issues yet because the market isn’t unified enough in forcing change.

I believe it. Just like everything else you buy, they will promise you the world but once you buy they act like they dont even know you. Really though the joke is on them because I bet that will be the last game that you ever buy off of Jack and he needs all the business that he can get from what I have heard.

So what are the "canned" responses that stern and JJP are giving their customers regarding the issue? How are they explaining the problem?

I was referring to his post, sherlock. If you read the last page, that should've been easy to piece together. So maybe before you write an essay, read and catch up. And no shit, stern got to the top cuz they were the only game in town. You couldn't put that together after reading my post??? Geez

My dear Mr. Watson, I’ve read the entire thread.
Your claim was that Stern will fold because of quality issues. You are wrong.

Yep, and a reminder that Stern was "circling the drain" in the 2000's and almost bellied up. A venture capital firm led by Dave Peterson (https://sternpinball.com/about/) saved the company. The folks that saved the company are likely at the helm of pushing Stern to new heights (in terms of output/growth). Unfortunately, quality hasn't kept pace with output. Some of the missteps could be avoided...others are most likely due to pushing Stern manufacturing (and R&D) to it's limits.

Great point, though Stern was struggling before the 2009 rescue and only made it to the bail out with a little luck.

You have hit on what is certainly the underlying cause - a push for growth/expanded margins seemingly at the expense of quality and without passing any of the savings to the ultimate buyers. We’ve seen it with playfield wood, power supplies, node boards, support pegs, cabinet stability and now playfield art/clear integrity. In some cases Stern realized they pushed too far (e.g. support pegs and cabinet stability) and changed course.

It’s unfortunate that Stern is now seemingly satisfied that the existing wood and manufacturing process used in playfields - the largest and most visible part of a game - is “good enough”. The summer “boycott” resulted in action, but not a fix for the root cause or just compensation for most of those affected. Just enough to quiet (or fool) the NIB buying crowd for now.

Stupid question because I am interested buying a new Stern game:
It's there no recourse as a buyer? Anything else if it is defective either the manufacturer has to fix it at their cost including sending a tech out to fix it and cover parts and labor or they take the product back and you get your money reimbursed.

This sounds pretty bad as I could be stuck with a lemon and have no options from what I have been reading here.

Sorry if that had been covered, but I'm pretty new to the hobby.
Also I'm not trying to troll, genuine question.

Unless you use a credit card for payment you are at the mercy of your distributor (and to some extent Stern) if you have a problem other than with the electronics in the first few months. Although Stern typically does a good job at support for small things their warranty is more whatever they decide it is rather than what you describe.

If you are new to the hobby you may want to consider starting with older, less expensive games that you can fully inspect before buying. If you do want to go the NIB route remember that ANY new game is likely going to require minor adjustments and tweaking during setup and that you probably won’t know for some time if the playfield has/will have issues.

Just opened my NIB Jurassic Park LE. I had nothing but great luck with Stern in the past with Iron Maiden LE being the first that had the dreaded softer wood.

Now this Jurassic Park. The grain shows heavily and a 3 inch ball drop (tested under Apron) resulted in a deep dimple. I had to reseat all posts etc as the soft wood had sunken in on all of them. All posts were lose, some I was able to rotate freely.

Guess my luck ran out. Installed a playfield protector. Took around 2 hours straight, playfield now looks like a MILLION bucks and the gameplay feels exactly like my protector-less pins.

Yes I understand, most dislike those protectors - but realize that we did not need them in the past (hence they were ridiculous).
From here on out I will not unbox one single game without protector in hand. Even it that means that the game has to remain unplayed for a few weeks until the protector becomes available from Germany.

As for you who is new to the hobby, installing a protector may be a tall ask unfortunately. I would not sweat it too much as those grains and dimples are purely cosmetic.

...

Thanks for the answer, that's a bummer though.
I bought recently my first machine from API through flip n out pinball and both of them have been nothing short of awesome in helping me to get it up and running and iron out some initial smaller problems. That's why I was pretty optimistic in buying nib after that experience.

Thanks for the answer, ya taking off everything scares the s*** Out of me. I dread the day where I will have to take all this off to replace all the rubber rings. So I suppose, used game it is then. I have some time to wait anyway since I want one of the stranger things and it will take a while until they will start showing up used I imagine.

Great advice. And installing a protector is easy. Nothing to worry about. Pretty rare you have to take everything off. I’ll continue doing this if I buy any more new games. But I’d rather see a return to better quality playfields.

I joined the club today and I’m not excited

261 plays on my pin and I found this today when putting on my penguin mod! I sent this to my distributor and he said they should send me a populated playfield. I’m not holding my breath but very sad for a couple months old

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AE9E306F-0103-4904-B582-3D3347929718 (resized).jpeg

D6B21A6A-E046-42B0-842B-D3915511751F (resized).jpeg

They "realized" it after many customers pushed for change (me being one of them). I am not shy about emailing Stern executives about my experiences with their products. My recommendation to other Pinsiders is send feedback directly to Stern and your distributor. Venting on Pinside is therapeutic, however not as effective as thoughtful, direct correspondence with Stern management (like the new QA director, for example). Use videos and photos to tell your story. If enough people engage with Stern, I'm hopeful the pendulum can swing back to sanity.

No way will they be sending you a populated one. People have had a lot worse and they only received a small bottle of clear coat...Hope I'm wrong.

We will see, I went with a large distributor so maybe that matters. Either way, if they do nothing I won’t buy another NiB from them again. I bought three this year and I know I’m small potatoes but it’s not bad for just a huo.

Luckily it’s not super visible as long as it doesn’t get any worse. It’s behind the angle.

Has anybody ever found the chipped off part of the playfield in the game after it happens?

probably not...what probably works the best is continuing to pester stern to do the right thing. I would be relentless if I was u

My Iron Maiden chipped and the best I could do was get an unpopulated playfield. I really hope they take care of you. Buying three machines in one year is huge I would think. I hope that gives you some additional leverage.

Yes I found my chips. I actually put them in a little plastic bag.

I am sure you are a nice guy and I don’t want you to think I have it in for you but man do you have this whole thing completely backwards. IMO the ONLY thing that has made Stern reverse course or consider fixing a defect is PUBLIC outcry on forums and podcasts. What you want is actually what Stern wants. Everything hidden so when they do nothing no one knows any different. Stern just hopes the fact they release a shiny new object every 4 months or so will just shift attention from the problems with their previous release to FOMO over the new release. For the last 10 years Stern’s business model is to continue to cut cost in order to increase profit. And it shows with the obvious decline in the quality of their machines.

Telling people to not speak up publicly is the absolute worst thing you could tell consumers to do in today’s day and age if they want companies to do right by them. I have to wonder if people realize just how little respect a pin company has to have for its customer base to knowingly put out machines with bad PFs. Stern and JJP know damn well that the playfield is the MOST important piece of every pin. It is absolutely disgraceful. And people should stay quiet and politely email Stern? These quality issues by Stern and JJP are not unknown to the companies involved. They know what they are doing and are just seeing what they can get away with all in the name of higher profits. Not only should people speak publicly they should speak more often. The next best thing to not buying a NIB from Stern or JJP is a threat that you won’t buy if things don’t change. Those pictures on public forums of bad PFs are probably the most effective way to get peoples point across to these pin companies. Don’t listen to those who try and silence you. They are misguided.

Nice. It is like the new goodie bag with no added expense to their BOM!

After finding some sorta resolution first with Stern are some people attempting to use some water thin super glue and put back some of the chips - if possible?

I kinda think the best thing to do would be to find some paint that matches or at least comes close and fill in the chip that way and then put a layer of clearcoat over it..it would probably never be noticable to anyone and hopefully would secure the area of further chipping.

These days if you want attention, you post on their twitter or instagram, most ignore forums but are real quick to respond to those because way more visible.

I have bought a JP2 Prem and GOTG Pro both new in box in the last few months.

No playfield issues at all; cabinets are perfect, and both play perfectly; just a heads up to those monitoring this thread for recent feedback.

Just another frequent nib buyer standing around with money in my pocket.

It's a combination of sharing experiences with the community on Pinside and emailing executives/distributors. I've had several issues and this strategy works. Some manufacturers are better than others. With JJP, I was sent some "swag" and Stern a populated bulletproof replacement play field.

Use lots of photos with specific and succinct descriptions to tell your story. Keep it objective until closing and then feel free to provide how the situation made you feel, etc.

It made me feel like I took it up the butt with no vaseline. Not sure I want to give them that satisfaction though...

I work for a semiconductor manufacturer, and yes it is very competitive. I have over 27 years in, all in Quality. Management is very supportive now but even in the dark days just 6-8 years ago when they pressured me to release questionable material, I stood my ground. I always felt that my job was to protect the customer when everyone else was focused on cost and keeping production running. We haven't had a customer return/field failure in the last 18 months.

jfh is right in that quality will not cause Stern to fail under the current system, because people are taking the risk and buying machines or remain blissfully unaware. The only way things will change is if *distributors* band together to demand accountability, better quality and threaten to quit taking orders to protect their customers.

You are mischaracterizing my comments on many levels. For example, I never said anything should be hidden.

Listen, I could care less if you like me OR have it in for me. Please move on...you aren't adding any value whatsoever. Just more drama/BS.

Stern has the best manufacturing plant in the business by a long shot. Yet they currently make the lowest quality pins in the business. Think about that for a minute. The low quality going out the door isn’t as simple as the QC dept missing things. The cut cost for larger and larger profits is absolutely deliberate. They know exactly what they are doing and don’t seem to care what their customers think. Money is king. Stern just wants it’s customers to think about theme and code. Of course they do. Those two things are subjective and no real answers can be reached. Stern doesn’t want to talk about materials used now compared to the past or number of mechs/features now compared to the past. On those subjects real answers can be reached because it is not subjective.

But someone like you who’s views about how to deal with Stern are clearly part of the problem should be free to speak. Give me a break.

Yep, Obviously it’s not a 100% failure rate as my other 2 NiB purchases were fine. It’s how they handle it that will determine if I continue to buy. If they give me a populated playfield and I pull this one to replace it then we are all good. I will continue to do business knowing they back their products.

Speaking of guardians, here is mine and you can see the art away from the post. I don’t complain about this one because I bought it used with about 1800 plays. it’s not horrible but it’s still an issue as it should be perfect even with that amount of plays.

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Totally agree. In addition, folks should get references on distributors. The distributor makes a difference. I've been fortunate and have had good distributors that helped me get parts when necessary. As I said earlier, even a populated PF from Stern for my AC/DC years ago. In those days, Curly from Little Shop of Games had my back (along with his partner Jimmy, who actually installed the PF for me).

I'm part of the problem? Why? Because I still buy Stern products and hold them accountable for the quality of what I've received (on both Pinside and in private communication). The more you speak, the more you show your ignorance. As I said, please move on.

Trying to encourage people to not speak publicly about their issues is certainly part of the problem. Go back and read some of what you wrote man. You have respect for those who stay on the sidelines. Venting on Pinside is therapeutic but will have no effect on Stern. Send a polite email and they will listen. You are obviously more worried about Sterns well being over the poor customers who have been screwed. You have switched from trying to discredit me because I haven’t been a member here long enough to have a legitimate view or I am affluent ( still trying to figure out how that discredits someone) to just telling me to stop talking. You have some nerve. I advise you stop trying to silence people.

You must have a reading comprehension problem (I'm not trying to silence people).

I stand-by my point, which was this: forum posts won't get Stern to fix your game. Period.

Forum posts are group therapy so everyone can see what's up and help each other if possible (I understand PF defects are an exception). The posts may or may not effect someones buying decision (which is personal). There are COUNTLESS other issues with NIB games that get aired/resolved here on Pinside. This is goodness. I feel I have some credibility, since I've gotten Stern to work with me over the past 15 years (not always to my satisfaction, I might add).

Here is a post I made on my IMDN that Stern decided to do nothing about:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/iron-maiden-issues/page/10#post-4450797

I'm pretty vocal about my issues on Pinside, but don't expect ANY post to be read or acted on by Stern. I make the posts as a public service. I've known many other collectors that have issues but DON'T speak up on Pinside because they don't want a cloud over their precious game if/when they try to sell.