(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

61 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 2,712 posts
  • 364 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 hours ago by hawkmoon77
  • Topic is favorited by 97 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 313 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

20191018_202159 (1) (resized).jpg
20191018_202129 (resized).jpg
thumbnail_image1 (resized).jpg
DAA46D17-AE44-4183-BF0E-4F9767AF5FAE (resized).jpeg
49034223-F435-4882-9980-BE445297ACB0 (resized).jpeg
59284194583__8E45E493-CC92-4645-BEF4-B9622AEB4433 (resized).JPG
Screenshot_20191013-110702 (resized).png
20191011_124130.jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
5188226D-D073-4C10-86EE-CF925433A9C9 (resized).jpeg
tenor.gif
20191009_201145 (resized).jpg
20191009_201200 (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
Unknown (resized).jpg
dollar.gif

There are 2712 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 55.
#301 56 days ago

Any word on the new run of GoT that Stern just did?

#302 56 days ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

Has Hitler weighed in on this? I can't imagine he's too happy about it.

Oh he did...

#303 56 days ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

People keep bringing up the warranty as if it has anything to do with this problem or its resolution.
Why?
A warranty is a specific thing, it's printed at the back of most of the Stern manuals I've read, and it has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. Any fix they offer is not part of their warranty.[quoted image]

thank god I live in a country that doesn't let them get away with that. For a £10,000 that warranty is shocking.

Quoted from epthegeek:

Seriously need to change the trend of calling it ‘pooling’, it didn’t flow anywhere. Wrinkling is more apt. Or bunching, even. Calling it pooling gives a misleading impression of what’s actually happening.

indeed.

#304 56 days ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

This has stopped me from a nib purchase this fall. Just building a game room too. But it’s money saved now. Maybe look for an older game now.

Same. Maybe I'll finally get around to renovating my bathrooms.

#305 56 days ago
Quoted from ctl723:

Just had a chance to play JP2 for the first time on location. Neat layout, ramp shots are really satisfying. Don't love the skillshot, and the overall theme integration is a bit lacking beyond generic-dinosaur-adventure.
Not sure how long it's been there, but it also has some unfortunate chipping in a number of locations. It was in a lineup of modern games and you could see similar failures on Wonka, Guardians, Munsters. The only newer game that didn't seem to have any playfield issues was Deadpool.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

At least the clear that's chipping on that GOTG didn't take the paint off with it, I could deal with that.

#306 56 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Seriously need to change the trend of calling it ‘pooling’, it didn’t flow anywhere. Wrinkling is more apt. Or bunching, even. Calling it pooling gives a misleading impression of what’s actually happening.

Great TWIP Podcast this morning with the guys from Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. They have a great discussion about clear coats with Drew who is in the commercial chemical coating industry. Drew said they call it BLISTERING in the industry.

#307 56 days ago
Quoted from gliebig:

Same. Maybe I'll finally get around to renovating my bathrooms.

Nice way to turn a bad shit show into a good shit show!

#308 56 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

thank god I live in a country that doesn't let them get away with that. For a £10,000 that warranty is shocking.

indeed.

I agree... But if Stern and JJP had there business in Sweden they would have been closed down a long time ago.

And then we have no pinball machine to play and complain about.

#309 56 days ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

Has Hitler weighed in on this? I can't imagine he's too happy about it.

No, he's too busy forcing everyone to use water-based clearcoat.

#310 56 days ago

Really good discussion about the playfield issues on the TWIP Podcast this week with our friends from Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, starts a little under 15 minutes in:

https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-podcast-episode-59-with-poormans-pinball-podcast/

If you have questions for Ian from Poor Mans about the conversation you can contact him at Poormanspinball@gmail.com or he is captain-flint on here.

#311 56 days ago

If Outside Edge were a publicly-traded company, I'd be buying stock.

#312 56 days ago
Quoted from Brk_oth:

I believe during that time period the major change for all manufacturers is the type of clear used in the US...... New regulations to cut down on VOC emissions, the clear they are using is now water-based.

Source? Also don’t forget mirco is not in the US. And given that many playfields do not have this problem, I don’t see this being because of some new regulation.

#313 56 days ago

So, something changed in 2018?

That means EVERY playfield made in this time period is possibly subject to 'blistering'.

The question now, is will the blistering be stable for years or are playfields a ticking time bomb?

#314 56 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

So, something changed in 2018?
That means EVERY playfield made in this time period is possibly subject to 'blistering'.
The question now, is will the blistering be stable for years or are playfields a ticking time bomb?

Ticking time bomb from what I am seeing.

#315 56 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Source? Also don’t forget mirco is not in the US. And given that many playfields do not have this problem, I don’t see this being because of some new regulation.

FYI, Eurozone has stricter, (in some cases far stricter) enviro regs than the USA. In general you can’t even import products that had a “naughty” process done to them, even if the chemicals used in that process don’t make it into the final product.

In the good ole USA for better or worse we don’t care nearly as much HOW something is made, especially if it is made elsewhere.

#316 56 days ago

These are from a 2013 game and definitely had time to fully cure. This is different than a lot of the newer "pooling" issues seen on Stern games, but is still an issue with the clear being used IMO. In the case of my game it seems as though the art was not fully adhered to the substrate and ball compression created voids under the art that eventually flaked off when the clear cracked.

Truly bummed to see the issues on JP as the game is fantastic and I was hoping to add one to the lineup.

IMG_0107 (resized).jpegIMG_0108 (resized).jpeg
#317 56 days ago

It's kinda hard to figure out how this could eventually get addressed in a way that would assure potential buyers that they've fixed whatever is causing these problems without admitting it's a real problem and they should be replacing them for free. Perhaps Stern will be the one to actually step up and do so but I'd guess it would still be done very quietly so that only the squeakiest of wheels would have theirs replaced with a populated PF.

#318 56 days ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

Oh he did...

And he was not a happy camper.....

#319 56 days ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

It's kinda hard to figure out how this could eventually get addressed in a way that would assure potential buyers that they've fixed whatever is causing these problems without admitting it's a real problem and they should be replacing them for free. Perhaps Stern will be the one to actually step up and do so but I'd guess it would still be done very quietly so that only the squeakiest of wheels would have theirs replaced with a populated PF.

I know numerous people that have received fully populated playfields from Stern. While Stern may not be publicly discussing it I do think they are doing their best to take care of their customers once the issue arises. I just hope there is ongoing testing to determine how to make a more durable playfield.

#320 56 days ago

I wonder what percentage of Stern playfields are affected

#321 56 days ago
Quoted from libtech:

I wonder what percentage of Stern playfields are affected

I've got a Metallica and an AC/DC Luci VE that I bought NIB last year. The Luci VE has the blistering issue, the Metallica doesn't, so my experience says 50% of recently produced pins, LOL. It might be higher.

#322 56 days ago
Quoted from libtech:

I wonder what percentage of Stern playfields are affected

I'm going with A LOT. I went to my local arcade and 2 of the 3 Sterns had some sort of pooling issue with the clear. Iron Maiden & Dealpool both had clearcoat issues. Star Wars looked to be ok. My brand new Iron Maiden has pooling around the posts and it was built in June 2019. The Iron Maiden at the arcade has been at the location for over a year. So you have two machines built over a year apart with the exact same issues. My playfield is dated 6-12 so it definitely came from a different production run. So in total 3 out of 4 Sterns that I have personally seen have some sort of clear issue. I'm not saying 75% have a problem but I think the issue is very common in my opinion.

#324 56 days ago

lol LEDS on a bit of metal - quality!

#325 56 days ago

So I took a look at my games.

My IMDN LE looks fine.
Deadpool LE looks fine.
Black Knight LE looks fine.
Monster Bash LE looks fine.

I had this issue on TNA last year, and everyone was like, oh its not that bad a problem (!).

14
#328 56 days ago

I'm not normally a very reactionary person, but I'm thiiis close to canceling my JP2 premium. Which is a bummer on multiple levels. Maiden is my favorite game ever, so I've been counting the days to KME's second effort. My kid is having a dinosaur-themed birthday party in late October, which the game should arrive in time for. And I have friends who work at Stern, who I don't enjoy calling out publicly. But this head-in-sand response from the company gives me little comfort or confidence in the product:

"No widespread issues here at Stern, can’t speak for other manufacturers though. If anyone does have any issues with their games though they should definitely be reaching out to their dealer or distributor." Source: https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-august-26th-2019/

I don't care what their definition of "widespread" is; I've seen enough that I don't want to gamble on NIB until this issue is acknowledged and/or corrected.

#329 55 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

I'm not normally a very reactionary person, but I'm thiiis close to canceling my JP2 premium. Which is a bummer on multiple levels. Maiden is my favorite game ever, so I've been counting the days to KME's second effort. My kid is having a dinosaur-themed birthday party in late October, which the game should arrive in time for. And I have friends who work at Stern, who I don't enjoy calling out publicly. But this head-in-sand response from the company gives me little comfort or confidence in the product:
"No widespread issues here at Stern, can’t speak for other manufacturers though. If anyone does have any issues with their games though they should definitely be reaching out to their dealer or distributor." Source: https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-august-26th-2019/
I don't care what their definition of "widespread" is; I've seen enough that I don't want to gamble on NIB until this issue is acknowledged and/or corrected.

No widespread issues. Lol.

#330 55 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

But this head-in-sand response from the company gives me little comfort or confidence in the product

And they also just sent out a "Stern Pinball at Comic Con" marketing blitz email at 12:50pm today. Just pretend nothing is wrong...

#331 55 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

I'm not normally a very reactionary person, but I'm thiiis close to canceling my JP2 premium.

I think we're in the same boat there, but if this really continues to be an issue this is going to be a big change in this industry.
People crying aboot dimples and moving a fucking power switch are standard stuff when paying over 5K for toys; that's going to happen and Stern will keep rolling along fine.
If you see a widespread PF issue that can become "Peeling" of the PF for lack of a better term, that shit is going to get real serious in the sale department.

Buuuuut we shall see. It could end up being an issue for the first run only for all we know.

#332 55 days ago

Oh that was good. Some of those quotes are hilarious. Loved the do-it-yourself repair kit for foam core cabinets...

-2
#333 55 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

I'm not normally a very reactionary person, but I'm thiiis close to canceling my JP2 premium. Which is a bummer on multiple levels. Maiden is my favorite game ever, so I've been counting the days to KME's second effort. My kid is having a dinosaur-themed birthday party in late October, which the game should arrive in time for. And I have friends who work at Stern, who I don't enjoy calling out publicly. But this head-in-sand response from the company gives me little comfort or confidence in the product:
"No widespread issues here at Stern, can’t speak for other manufacturers though. If anyone does have any issues with their games though they should definitely be reaching out to their dealer or distributor." Source: https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-august-26th-2019/
I don't care what their definition of "widespread" is; I've seen enough that I don't want to gamble on NIB until this issue is acknowledged and/or corrected.

Don't cancel. Put emotion ahead of logic. Itll be fine . Emotionally driven decisions always work out better.

-14
#334 55 days ago
Quoted from NPO:

Don't cancel. Put emotion ahead of logic. Itll be fine . Emotionally driven decisions always work out better.

Best of luck I've been trying to calm the hysteria over this issue for months in the JJP POTC chipping thread.

It's really not worth flipping out over IMO. Yeah it sucks, yeah it needs to stop, yeah we want some kind of reasonable fix. But at the end of the day it really is a minor blemish that doesn't affect gameplay enjoyment.

#335 55 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Pmsl! Really??
"Lookout the commies are comming!" hardest I've laughed all week, thanks!
Well yeah! QC costs money! . Pretty much just looks like a more profits and greed/money issue. Nothing can grow forever - Newsflash.
Bigger they get the harder the fall, only takes time.
Pinball doesn't benefit from companies making cheaper and nastier pinball machines, and for ever more money/profit.
Capitalism is just the next dirty C word that's all, didn't you get the memo?
It's all good, globalisation will surely save us, and pinball! Lol
Stern LE are a AU$10k game Max! ... simple ... the rest is just Extra profit than previously (perpetual growth elephant).

Wow, thanks for the clarification,
comrade. LOL.

#336 55 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Best of luck I've been trying to calm the hysteria over this issue for months in the JJP POTC chipping thread.
It's really not worth flipping out over IMO. Yeah it sucks, yeah it needs to stop, yeah we want some kind of reasonable fix. But at the end of the day it really is a minor blemish that doesn't affect gameplay enjoyment.

I Agree....at the same time people want their games to look great and last. I can see why people are upset as what happens if it gets worse in the future.

Disclaimer...I have a POTC LE ....Love it... NO chipping, but pooling around posts...Knock on Wood!

#337 55 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

, oh its not that bad a problem (!).

It's never that bad of a problem till it happens to you

#338 55 days ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

I Agree....at the same time people want their games to look great and last. I can see why people are upset as what happens if it gets worse in the future.
Disclaimer...I have a POTC LE ....Love it... NO chipping, but pooling around posts...Knock on Wood!

Yeah, my chipping on POTC LE (I've seen it on 3/3 machines) was hideable by using star posts on the slingshots. If there are more places, I can't see them and I'm not going to go looking for them.

If I couldn't hide the chipping spots, I would be upset too for sure.

#339 55 days ago

Not surprised by Sterns response (no widespread issues). I remember when I called them about the cabinet separating issue and was told "theres no problem, sometimes a cabinet doesn't get enough glue"...

#340 55 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Not surprised by Sterns response (no widespread issues). I remember when I called them about the cabinet separating issue and was told "theres no problem, sometimes a cabinet doesn't get enough glue"...

Funny....plus Jack couldn't be reached due to spotty service....good way of saying I really don't want to discuss this at all

-2
#341 55 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Not surprised by Sterns response (no widespread issues). I remember when I called them about cabinet issues and was told "theres no problem, sometimes a cabinet doesn't get enough glue"...

If it doesn't exceed a certain percentage it IS not a problem.

#342 55 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

If it doesn't exceed a certain percentage it IS not a problem.

Except for the poor bastards that are stuck with one.

#343 55 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Except for the poor bastards that are stuck with one.

That is not what I meant.

There is a failure rate when you're building things.
You allready take this into account when pricing things.

So of course if it's defective it has to be replaced or somehow taken care of.
That Money should've been put aside.

About 2% is normal, about 5% failure rate is usually maximum.

#344 55 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

But at the end of the day it really is a minor blemish that doesn't affect gameplay enjoyment.

"Hey your playfield is chipping to pieces and looks like phuking shit dude". "Yeah i know, not a big deal, its just a minor blemish on a 10K game.......doesnt bother me at all".

Dude are you f*cking serious? You are either rich beyond belief or really really dumb!

#345 55 days ago
Quoted from NPO:

Put emotion ahead of logic. Emotionally driven decisions always work out better.

NSIS.gif

#346 55 days ago

Imagine if this issue is occurring due to companies asking playfield manufactueres to make playfields cheaper by using a cheaper product? In the TWIP podcast that sure sounds like a possibility. That would be complete BS with how much we are paying today for pins! Charging $6k - $12.5k and you are going to save money on the clear coat process? Again, BS!

#347 55 days ago

Maybe Gary is overseas with "Spotty Cell Service" too.

20190826_145725 (resized).png
#348 55 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Maybe Gary is overseas with "Spotty Cell Service" too.

I can hear Gary and Jack now everytime they answer the phone and someone is on the other end bitching about their playfield. "Hello hello....can you hear me now?" "Sorry im going to have to call you back, im not getting good service where im at." Lol

#349 55 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

That is not what I meant.
There is a failure rate when you're building things.
You allready take this into account when pricing things.
So of course if it's defective it has to be replaced or somehow taken care of.
That Money should've been put aside.
About 2% is normal, about 5% failure rate is usually maximum.

I knew what you meant. I intentionally took it out of context.

25
#350 55 days ago

I guess I'll chime in since everyone is and also since I have lived thru it. Here is my take on it. I have been affected by playfield issues 3 times. My wife and I bought a NIB Ghostbusters in 2017. About 2 months into it we had ghosting on a majority of the inserts. I was gutted that night. Called my distributor and he took care of it. It was a long process. Took about 3 months to get a new playfield but I eventually got one. Not even a year later I noticed the "new" playfield is having ghosting on the inserts again. I was mad but I went thru so much emotion the first time that I sort of didn't care anymore. I still need to see if I can get this one fixed. Then we got a Total Nuclear Annihilation #253 back in Oct of 2018. You guessed it. Chipping under the star posts. Again was just defeated on it but realized fighting Spooky about it was not ideal. If every one of us TNA owners got new populated playfields it would have done severe financial damage to them which no one wanted. I put the washers under the posts and it stopped the chipping and looks fine to me. I have not seen any more damage and this was about 5-6 months ago and I pretty much play the game every day. I have made a conscious effort to enjoy my games flaws and all. I have a taxi with a beat to shit playfield but I love it. Play it all the time. This situation sucks. Sure does and I am not telling those that are going thru this to suck it up like I have. No one wins but the day you learn to accept the flaws just like you accept on your own body is when you start to enjoy yourself and in this case your machines. They are meant to be played and I am doing just that. Again everyone has a right to be pissed and angry. I have gone thru it but have come out on the other side with a clearer head and enjoy my games and their flaws. To me the playfield issues are only flaws if you focus on it. Believe me. It can make you miserable. I choose to not be miserable about it and play and enjoy my games. I bought these to enjoy myself. Not to show off or to sit there looking pristine. Shit happens. Its how we deal with it. I hope everyone finds a solution to this and works together. Wishing financial ruin to the manufactures does nothing. This is a problem that everyone has to deal with and we need to work together to find the solutions. Just a sucky situation right now but be happy we all have good health and everything else.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 24.95
Playfield - Other
Hookedonpinball.com
$ 16.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 43.00
Lighting - Interactive
Hookedonpinball.com
There are 2712 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 55.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside