(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

11 months ago



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There are 6106 posts in this topic. You are on page 68 of 123.
13
#3351 7 months ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I really want a Stranger Things and have the money. Yes I haven’t even seen the darn thing yet, but man these QC issues are holding me back from a nib purchase. Damn shame.

I was hovering around an Iron Maiden and an Elvira for 18 months or so.

I was ready to dive straight into 2 NIB Pins a year and a half ago, as they were both ideal Themes for me (Been a Maiden Fan since I was 11) and both were designed/ built / coded by guys who make well reviewed games.

After doing a little research and seeing the way this issue (and others) has been handled by Stern...or, not handled by Stern (there you have the 18 months!)

I finally broke my NIB cherry and ordered a Spooky this week.

And, over that same time I have bought a Fish Tales and an EaPM.

I can find a place to flip some Sterns on location and let the Operator deal with the issues.

13
#3352 7 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I felt the same way until I played Keith's awesome JP2. Decided to move forward and fortunately received a solid build (11/22).
After 120 games, only needed to replace 1 coil stop. No PF issues. Raptor pit and right flipper need "dialing in", but the game is really solid otherwise. All things considered, I'm pleased with what I received.

Yes, but Stern is not supporting customers with issues. That should concern everyone, regardless of the games they receive. It's only a matter of time before the next cost-cutting measure or change of manufacturing: there is a clear pattern they have set. What happens if your Str. Thngs. is f'd up? Odds are, you will not be supported. A lottery system with a 6+k product is something I want no part of.

#3353 7 months ago

What are people doing that have major issues out of the box: Like that guy that got the JP2 with that awful clear coat?

Full disclosure - I have only bought one NIB pin (Alien) and if it was messed up I don't know that I'd have any recourse with an Australian distro. But, if I bought local I'd just return the game. Are people having them shipped so they are, ostensibly, "stuck" with the game and just hoping that someone makes it right?

I don't really want to debate the damage that could be done to a distro, but if I buy a defective product from a store I will take it back to the store. Why are more people not putting more pressure on their distributors? Maybe my temperature gauge is off on this, but it seems people want to email Stern and hope things get taking care of instead of pressuring their distributor...?

This whole manufacturer-distributor situation seems whacky. I feel for those affected and hope they get a proper resolution to their issues.

#3354 7 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I felt the same way until I played Keith's awesome JP2. Decided to move forward and fortunately received a solid build (11/22).
After 120 games, only needed to replace 1 coil stop. No PF issues. Raptor pit and right flipper need "dialing in", but the game is really solid otherwise. All things considered, I'm pleased with what I received.

Loot crate success! Too bad we dont know what the percentage of non-fucky pins inside these loot crates are. 1:4, 1:8, 1:holyfuckingmoses...

#3355 7 months ago
Quoted from Darkwing:

Loot crate success! Too bad we dont know what the percentage of non-fucky pins inside these loot crates are. 1:4, 1:8, 1:holyfuckingmoses...

That’s a creative way to put it.

#3356 7 months ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Yes, but Stern is not supporting customers with issues. That should concern everyone, regardless of the games they receive. It's only a matter of time before the next cost-cutting measure or change of manufacturing: there is a clear pattern they have set. What happens if your Str. Thngs. is f'd up? Odds are, you will not be supported. A lottery system with a 6+k product is something I want no part of.

Exactly. Playing the lottery and winning doesn’t change the fact that it’s rigged, or that everyone else isn’t so lucky. Not to mention playing it at all validates the business model.

One guy’s JP2 is without flaws (possibly for now). Great, but his Stranger Things pin - if he buys one - or whatever else comes next might not be, then it’ll be him staring down the barrel of trying to get Stern to make him whole, like everyone else who had already been shafted.

The only winning move is not to play.

#3357 7 months ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

They won’t. They don’t care. Why would they help me out? I’ve only bought 19 NIB games from them in the last 10 years. I’m just a number like everyone else. Unless you are in the industry or know someone at Stern they are not going to go the extra mile. They are more worried about getting games on the line then fixing issues that go out the door.
I told my distributor I would not buy Elvira and now Stranger Things. I’m not going to buy a new game from them to repopulate another playfield. My time and money are too valuable.
When I do repopulate it, assuming I still get a playfield, I am going to stream it and put it up on YouTube and Facebook. At least it’s will help those effected.

This is just totally insane. Someone purchases a staggering 19 NIB multi thousand dollar games each in the last 10 years, and the best they could do is offer you an unpopulated playfield for a brand new game with 149 plays on it??? What a joke. At a MINIMUM send you a populated playfield without talk, just action. If the majority of your games were purchased from the same distributor it doesn't sound like they fought enough in your behalf IMHO.

Just blows my mind with all the posts I've read how many pinsiders with playfield issues have been taking it up the tailpipe. Glad to see that things seem better with later runs, but come on, show respect and take care of customers like Tom and others the way they deserve to be! Rant over.....

#3358 7 months ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

I think a call from a lawyer talking class action with them is more likely to get action than any distributor.

Gary's education is in the field of Law. He knows what he has and doesn't have to do.

#3359 7 months ago

LOL MrBally, apinballwiz and Durzel have bought a total of three Stern games combined I am sure Stern is shaking in there boots

#3360 7 months ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Exactly. Playing the lottery and winning doesn’t change the fact that it’s rigged, or that everyone else isn’t so lucky. Not to mention playing it at all validates the business model.
One guy’s JP2 is without flaws (possibly for now). Great, but his Stranger Things pin - if he buys one - or whatever else comes next might not be, then it’ll be him staring down the barrel of trying to get Stern to make him whole, like everyone else who had already been shafted.
The only winning move is not to play.

The Stern playfield lottery is the main reason I'm hesitant to buy a Stranger Things. It does seem like premium and or LE Stern playfields are made better based on what I've been reading but that's just a guess.

#3361 7 months ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Gary's education is in the field of Law. He knows what he has and doesn't have to do.

It's certainly not in Buisness Ethics.

#3362 7 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The Stern playfield lottery is the main reason I'm hesitant to buy a Stranger Things. It does seem like premium and or LE Stern playfields are made better based on what I've been reading but that's just a guess.

Me and Who-Dey just got off phone saying same thing.

#3363 7 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

LOL MrBally, apinballwiz and Durzel have bought a total of three Stern games combined I am sure Stern is shaking in there boots

Their

You don’t need to be a cook to know when something smells like shit.

My Tron LE is perfect, because it was made when Stern were more customer focused, it seems.

#3364 7 months ago
Quoted from apinballwiz:

This is just totally insane. Someone purchases a staggering 19 NIB multi thousand dollar games each in the last 10 years, and the best they could do is offer you an unpopulated playfield for a brand new game with 149 plays on it??? What a joke. At a MINIMUM send you a populated playfield without talk, just action. If the majority of your games were purchased from the same distributor it doesn't sound like they fought enough in your behalf IMHO.
Just blows my mind with all the posts I've read how many pinsiders with playfield issues have been taking it up the tailpipe. Glad to see that things seem better with later runs, but come on, show respect and take care of customers like Tom and others the way they deserve to be! Rant over.....

My distributor was going to talk to them yesterday. Haven’t heard anything back.

#3365 7 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

LOL MrBally, apinballwiz and Durzel have bought a total of three Stern games combined I am sure Stern is shaking in there boots

Won't be the two of us that will make Stern shake in their boots, it's those who have purchased multiple NIB games consistently in the past that stop doing so. You sting them at a tender spot they'll bound to scratch.

#3366 7 months ago

I have seen a lot of discussion about Stern games, but not much lately about JJP. Have they been able to figure it out or are JJP owner's just not chiming in?

#3367 7 months ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

I have seen a lot of discussion about Stern games, but not much lately about JJP. Have they been able to figure it out or are JJP owner's just not chiming in?

My Wonka SE was a second run,born on date 10/31/2019 and the playfield is great.
No pooling around post no chipping at slings just nice shiny and flat.

#3368 7 months ago

If you buy one of these Stranger Things i hope you get lucky because if you REALLY look at what is going out the door...im not going into it. Good luck. These other guys are getting f’d. Not all, but a few.

#3369 7 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The Stern playfield lottery is the main reason I'm hesitant to buy a Stranger Things. It does seem like premium and or LE Stern playfields are made better based on what I've been reading but that's just a guess.

They should all be made the same. It doesn't matter if you spend 6k or 9k you should still get a quality product. When you go buy a new car they don't say "if you want a nice paint job you have to buy the Cadillac, the cheaper cars have bad paint jobs with the paint chipping off of them"

#3370 7 months ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I really want a Stranger Things and have the money. Yes I haven’t even seen the darn thing yet

Vids are on Facebook

#3371 7 months ago

Seems like Stern would be best to go back to no clear and just using playfield protectors or back to mylar :p

It is sad when companies feel they can get away with not being customer first. However, this isn't just Stern, this is many many companies these days. The internet has made them tone deaf because of the constant berating by anyone and everyone about every little thing. Unfortunately this hands off approach also hurts the legit people with issues.

13
#3372 7 months ago

For a while I was picking up 2-3 NIB Sterns from my distributor a year. Last time I seen him I was picking up a multicade and he mentioned things to me Stern was coming out with. I told him I am not interested in any more Stern products.

I could go way more into it, but I will leave it alone.

I am not saying I will never again buy a NIB Stern, just saying not going to happen until they have better quality control, and better customer relations.

#3373 7 months ago
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:

I told him I am not interested in any more Stern products.

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#3374 7 months ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Gary's education is in the field of Law. He knows what he has and doesn't have to do.

Right. So ignoring upset customers with flawed or defective playfields is the right thing to do if your within the law? Not if you want to keep customers and stay in business long term.

#3375 7 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The Stern playfield lottery is the main reason I'm hesitant to buy a Stranger Things. It does seem like premium and or LE Stern playfields are made better based on what I've been reading but that's just a guess.

I think you meant to say the Stern JJP playfield lottery

11
#3376 7 months ago
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#3377 7 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

I think you meant to say the Stern JJP playfield lottery

No he meant what he said!

#3378 7 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

They should all be made the same. It doesn't matter if you spend 6k or 9k you should still get a quality product. When you go buy a new car they don't say "if you want a nice paint job you have to buy the Cadillac, the cheaper cars have bad paint jobs with the paint chipping off of them"

Car paint jobs vary pretty dramatically between car manufacturers (i.e. the paint quality on a Honda Civic isn't the same as an Audi R8). I've owned both, so I have first hand experience. Some manufacturers "upcharge" for certain colors.

In any event, most cars are painted by robots. Stern's games are built largely by humans. Whenever humans are doing the job, it's tougher to control quality...especially when you are likely employing humans at minimum wage and measuring them on day-to-day output (rather than quality).

I'm not excusing the quality issues...I sympathize with many folks having to deal with issues (including myself

#3379 7 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Car paint jobs vary pretty dramatically between car manufacturers (i.e. the paint quality on a Honda Civic isn't the same as an Audi R8). I've owned both, so I have first hand experience. Some manufacturers "upcharge" for certain colors.
In any event, most cars are painted by robots. Stern's games are built largely by humans. Whenever humans are doing the job, it's tougher to control quality...especially when you are likely employing humans at minimum wage and measuring them on day-to-day output (rather than quality).
I'm not excusing the quality issues...I sympathize with many folks having to deal with issues (including myself

So Stern should hire robots. Gotcha.

#3381 7 months ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

So Stern should hire robots.

Or let the auto makers do them?

#3382 7 months ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

So Stern should hire robots. Gotcha.

Gotcha? Not sure I grok. I’m sure Stern would love to replace humans with robots if they could. Hard to find an industry that isn’t replacing humans with robots.

-1
#3383 7 months ago

What about a hardwood floor manufacturer
They put the hardest clear coat down on floors ?
Or is that a bad idea ?

#3384 7 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Car paint jobs vary pretty dramatically between car manufacturers (i.e. the paint quality on a Honda Civic isn't the same as an Audi R8). I've owned both, so I have first hand experience. Some manufacturers "upcharge" for certain colors.
In any event, most cars are painted by robots. Stern's games are built largely by humans. Whenever humans are doing the job, it's tougher to control quality...especially when you are likely employing humans at minimum wage and measuring them on day-to-day output (rather than quality).
I'm not excusing the quality issues...I sympathize with many folks having to deal with issues (including myself

All true but the paint doesnt chip off of even the cheap cars and It wouldn't be considered acceptable if it did, not by you or anyone else.

#3385 7 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

All true but the paint doesnt chip off of even the cheap cars and It wouldn't be considered acceptable if it did, not by you or anyone else.

Run consistently steel ball bearings with high speed over the hood of your car and post pictures how it holds up.

But I agree, I wonder if the clear coat chemicals changed.

#3386 7 months ago
Quoted from T3quila:

Run consistently steel ball bearings with high speed over the hood of your car and post pictures how it holds up.
But I agree, I wonder if the clear coat chemicals changed.

Old games have had steel ball bearing rolling around in then for many many years and they hold up for lots of plays. I'm talking about brand new out of the box 6-10K games that have shit clearcoat. That is not normal Nd it is not acceptable. I do think that the clearcoat has changed due to EPA BS and I think that's exactly where the problem lies. The only part that I dont understand is some recent games have been ok and some arent.

#3387 7 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Old games have had steel ball bearing rolling around in then for many many years and they hold up for lots of plays. I'm talking about brand new out of the box 6-10K games that have shit clearcoat. That is not normal Nd it is not acceptable. I do think that the clearcoat has changed due to EPA BS and I think that's exactly where the problem lies. The only part that I dont understand is some recent games have been ok and some arent.

I was just messing with you.

I would figure the clear coat chemicals themselves are probably machine mixed so you can likely remove that variable.

That leaves inconsistencies in the wood. Maybe the moisture content is inconsistent and having an effect.

Next is environment. Temperature control, relative humidity, cleanliness.

Application process is next: thickness of each layer, drying time in between ( may be affected by environment above) and obviously how good and consistent the person is spaying it.

That's what I can think on top of my head and I'm sure there is more.

There are lots of moving targets and anyone not being optimal can lead to a subpar outcome.

But you are right, that problem was already solved and for the price there is no excuse. I certainly wouldn't accept it on a car, and not anything else that costs 4 digits and above.

#3388 7 months ago
Quoted from T3quila:

I was just messing with you.
I would figure the clear coat chemicals themselves are probably machine mixed so you can likely remove that variable.
That leaves inconsistencies in the wood. Maybe the moisture content is inconsistent and having an effect.
Next is environment. Temperature control, relative humidity, cleanliness.
Application process is next: thickness of each layer, drying time in between ( may be affected by environment above) and obviously how good and consistent the person is spaying it.
That's what I can think on top of my head and I'm sure there is more.
There are lots of moving targets and anyone not being optimal can lead to a subpar outcome.
But you are right, that problem was already solved and for the price there is no excuse. I certainly wouldn't accept it on a car, and not anything else that costs 4 digits and above.

Pinball is hard that's for sure but this problem really needs to get fixed bad because I know so many people who wont buy right now. . Hopeful they get a handle on it soon.

#3389 7 months ago

If Stern, JJP, Spooky, whoever wants to charge $6k - $10k+ for pins then they need to deliver top quality. Strip down the games? That sucks but it's already happened in a lot of modern titles. At least have the decency to install quality built parts if you are going to charge $6k - $10k+ for a pin. Don't put subpar playfields into games that can't match the quality of playfields made 20+ YEARS AGO! There's no excuse. Same goes for crappy cabinets, poor decal installs, loose side rails (an odd JJP problem on a number of games), and installing cheap coil stops (Stern).

#3390 7 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

If Stern, JJP, Spooky, whoever wants to charge $6k - $10k+ for pins then they need to deliver top quality. Strip down the games? That sucks but it's already happened in a lot of modern titles. At least have the decency to install quality built parts if you are going to charge $6k - $10k+ for a pin. Don't put subpar playfields into games that can't match the quality of playfields made 20+ YEARS AGO! There's no excuse. Same goes for crappy cabinets, poor decal installs, loose side rails (an odd JJP problem on a number of games), and installing cheap coil stops (Stern).

I have zero problem admitting I'll pass on Stranger Things if any of the above occur - predominately the clearcoat issues.

Some of us can hit the "pause" button until it gets fixed. Will be a shame to see NST go down the JP2/Willy Wonka road.....

#3391 7 months ago

I want a Stranger Thing... and for a millisecond thought about jumping on board.
Then I remembered the Quality control issues and came to my senses.
If I buy; it'll be second hand. but probably not then.

#3392 7 months ago

I feel lucky that my BM66 is fine and I love the game, but I'm done buying NIB from Stern even if the playfield issue gets resolved. I definitely would have purchased Stranger Things, but I'm passing now because of the way Stern treated Who-Dey and others. Hearing how others have been treated has really put a sour taste in my mouth for the hobby as a whole. (kudos to the distributors though -- I've had nothing but great experiences with you guys, sorry that this crap affects you)

#3393 7 months ago
Quoted from iloveplywood:

I feel lucky that my BM66 is fine and I love the game, but I'm done buying NIB from Stern even if the playfield issue gets resolved. I definitely would have purchased Stranger Things, but I'm passing now because of the way Stern treated Who-Dey and others. Hearing how others have been treated has really put a sour taste in my mouth for the hobby as a whole. (kudos to the distributors though -- I've had nothing but great experiences with you guys, sorry that this crap affects you)

Thanks buddy. Just to be fair, i have a feeling that my distributor is more to blame than Stern about me going five months and being totally ignored. I don't really know who is to blame truthfully though so please nobody ask who my distributor is because until i know for a fact that they didn't do their job i refuse to throw them under the bus. My personal belief right now though is that they didn't even turn in my complaint to Stern (twice) and they definitely didn't fight for me, i damn sure know that much. I am now finally working with Stern on a resolution but i do not believe that i will get what i deserve because my thoughts are that anyone who gets a bad quality playfield should be made whole with a new populated playfield. I did however though talk to one of the guys at Stern and he has been extremely nice and helpful to me so far.

I hope they get this figured out because i want to be a customer again and more importantly i want to see pinball keep growing so i want Stern to be a successful company.

#3394 7 months ago

Saw this today in a coffee shop and was reminded of this thread...

15428CC6-4EF9-4EA3-A960-A0ACBB6E66B1 (resized).jpeg
#3395 7 months ago

I know we have one person that has reported issues with the new Stern playfields with no artwork around the posts. Not a large sample size considering how many games are shipping. Have there been others?

#3396 7 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

My Wonka SE was a second run,born on date 10/31/2019 and the playfield is great.
No pooling around post no chipping at slings just nice shiny and flat.

Only one JJP owner? Does that mean JJP has the problem licked?

18
#3397 7 months ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I know we have one person that has reported issues with the new Stern playfields with no artwork around the posts. Not a large sample size considering how many games are shipping. Have there been others?

Unfortunately my brand new JP Premium playfield has problems also. And it has the new playfield design with circles around the posts. Build date 10/21/19. It has 2 areas (as of now) with clear/artwork that has chipped away with bare wood now showing. These are both areas where a metal lane guide was pressed against the playfield, not from posts being hit from a ball.
I made phone calls and sent pictures on Dec 5th to both my distributor and to Stern. Stern is “reviewing” my case and is supposed to get back to me.
I have specifically requested a completely populated playfield. They need to do the right thing here. I personally have purchased 8 Stern pins. (7 premiums, 1 pro). I’ve put thousands of dollars in Stern’s bank account. This is the first time I’ve requested an expensive warranty item. If they don’t give me a populated playfield I will NOT be buying another Stern.

#3398 7 months ago
Quoted from Londonpinball:

What about a hardwood floor manufacturer
They put the hardest clear coat down on floors ?
Or is that a bad idea ?

Or look at bowling alley manufacturers, most bowling lanes are now a wood synthetic material. These wood surfaces take numerous beating with 16lbs bowling balls, they don't chip or dimple. Then again, I dont know the costs associated with this type of material.

#3399 7 months ago
Quoted from Moli410:

Or look at bowling alley manufacturers, most bowling lanes are now a wood synthetic material. These wood surfaces take numerous beating with 16lbs bowling balls, they don't chip or dimple. Then again, I dont know the costs associated with this type of material.

It weighs a ton ... I had a bowling alley in my game room and the synthetic alley was crazy heavy even though it was thin. Good luck drilling into it as well ... I needed to add a bunch of pilot holes for screws and it broke some bits. I can't imagine cutting a playfield into it for cheap

#3400 7 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

All true but the paint doesnt chip off of even the cheap cars and It wouldn't be considered acceptable if it did, not by you or anyone else.

It’s interesting...helped my nephew purchase a used, low mileage Honda Civic. The Civic was in Florida and the black paint ended up fading really badly. Looked awful. My nephew fought hard with Honda to have them repaint the car (which they did

Great companies feel badly when their product fails (and they take action). That’s my biggest disappointment with Stern...as a company, they just don’t seem to care much. The process is murky. Even when they agree to take care of an issue, it takes forever to make it happen.

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