Fine then Stern already set precedent by giving out populated PF’s in the past for defective playfields. Stern is hoping for people who don’t know that fact. It’s a joke. A bad bad joke.

I get your frustration, but it's unclear if JJP's decision has anything to do with Stern. I imagine the background is more complex. Let's be clear, the ability for ANY manufacturer to offer populated playfield replacements is dependent on HOW MANY populated PF's are being requested. If PF issues/defects have become more common, then it becomes a larger "business decision" for any company! The obvious solution is building fewer defective products

In other domains (unrelated to pinball), I've received "replacement compensation" for product defects. With the advent of social media, it's become common for companies to ask you to sign non-disclosure agreements! (to limit exposure and precedent). The idea that companies will "take care" of you if you don't disclose the defect/compensation is kind of slimy, but is the new normal in many industries (unfortunately).

Stern knows it should replace the defective PF’s with populated ones. Know how I know.......cause that’s exactly what they used to do. And no that would be incorrect to say the ability to replace defective products is dependent on how many defective products. That’s why you don’t put out defective products.Because a group of angry customers could take up a case action lawsuit against you. And since Stern already set a type of precedent by giving out populated PF’s for defective ones they would definitely lose that case. You tell me how they would explain that away. No frustration here. Just truth.

Unfortunately, there is no universal truth when it comes to defining a "defective one". It's totally unclear if Stern has entirely abandoned taking care of serious issues with populated PF's. I don't think it's "black & white". Until Stern makes a public statement to the entire community, I'm certain some distributors have leverage with taking care of their customers.

I *think* that is exactly what the other guy was saying/inferring. I could be wrong though.

Guessing Stern have done some kind of audit, that showed how expensive 'this time' it would be to send out unpopulated.

Due to how many cases of pooling etc, it would be deemed more cost effective to send unpopulated and lose a few customers.

Unfortunately it's business 101, as they know the moment Led Zeppelin LE is announced, it will sell out!

I doubt that.

That is unreal. After dropping $7000 I'd be livid.

So... After talkng with Stern about my issue, I had the distinct impression that they know that people intend to do this and why it's their new default offer.

Q: how much is a huo first run JP2 with issues and an unpopulated new playfield worth?

More or less a flawless huo JP2?

An indifferent buyer would pay slightly less, leave the defective pf in the cabinet and store the new one for a future sell.

A collector would pay even less, cause he has to swap the mechs and the risk, that the new pf can be in the same poor quality as the original one.

A clever buyer would say this too, but do nothing and store or sell the new pf.

So when you want the best price, you have to swap the pf before a sale.

I prefer to buy a flawless JP2 next year (or no more pin at all, when stern continues to disrespect their customers).

Shame on people for accepting an unpopulated playfield as an acceptable remedy. Stern sold a defective product, end of story. Their options are to come pick their machine up and send a new one, or send someone out to swap in a populated playfield. Anything less is enabling Stern to produce even crappier products because they know they can get away with it.

They are getting away with it. I can’t believe these people rushing to buy nib latest games. I’ll just sit back and giggle.

Being a pinball addict is a rough gig. I've been clean for 2 months now, but man, I'm considering going to a local arcade this weekend for a fix.

Yet, if they had been able to mail their playfield to Stern, for Stern to swap...

Shame on you for assuming all of us "slackers" roll over when we receive less-than-perfect Stern products. The reality is many of us reach out to our distributors and Stern to highlight and/or resolve issues. The process is imperfect, but so is pinball. If the process is so burdensome, folks should simply avoid purchasing new games and stick to buying older games that don't suffer from the newer "issues".

Seriously? One cosmetic flaw and you expect Stern to replace the entire game even if months old or thousands of plays, eating shipping both ways? Stern would then be stuck with a used game they cannot sell and out many thousands of dollars. That seems a bit extreme to me. I'm not sure what Stern should do with all this but I know what we all can do - not buy nib games until 100% confident that we will be satisfied with what we are buying.

So this issue has now somehow become the fault of the customer? And a customer who's only realistic recourse with Stern is an unpopulated playfield are enablers for Stern's poor quality control? Just because someone demands that Stern "Come pick up their machine and send a new one, or send someone out for a playfield swap" doesn't meant Stern is going to comply. I think your anger is misplaced and you need to dial the rhetoric back a notch.

I'm not the one who created the manufacturing defect. I just want it fucking fixed.

-wonka owner #08742206, play field #105, clear coat case #5107

"So when you want the best price, you have to swap the pf before a sale."

I think it depends on how you value the time and money it takes to do the swap.

Like you stated I stick to "older" games.... perfectly content with never buying another NIB Stern game. Their arrogance, and lack of customer service is complete BS....buying nice HUO games resolves the drama and risk of buying a NIB Stern game. Newly released titles can always be had within 6 months of initial release...just requires a little patience

Why can't they sell it? Let them eat it, it was their screw up.

People are seeing pooling issues out of the box. You can't tell me someone didn't spot it when doing QC. Going even further, mine started chipping in about 50 plays.

Are you telling me Stern doesn't put a few hundred games on a couple of these machines and then run them through QC again? If so, whoever is doing QC over there needs to be fired.

I've posted it before, but since we are talking about Quality Control.....Everyone remember the ghosting issues?

Skip to the 11 minute mark.

Guy Giving Tour: "Yeah, we have this awesome light table to make sure we can spot ghosting insert issues." "Can we show them how it works?"

Guy Doing QC: "Uh, this thing is supposed to be plugged in?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=UR2WflOczwU&app=desktop

Totally agree.....they should take back these games, and sell as refurbished games and take the hit.....

Agree 100%. I've dialed back my NIB purchases to limit my exposure/risk. Waited 1 year to pick-up a BM66 and was rewarded with new code, a nicely modded flawless example, and saved over 1k OTOH, I'm taking a chance with JP2 since I've played it on location and love the way it shoots. So while patience can pay off, I'm still a sucker for the adrenaline rush of a great shooting game (which Stern still delivers on, despite the build quality missteps).

QC guy is completely clueless of it not being plugged in. SMH

Is THAT the guy Stern promoted to "QC Czar" ?
Guys, seriously--there is one solution and one solution only on how these problems can be rectified and that is to Stop_Buying_NIB_from them. Period.

Awesome...patience in this hobby typically pays off. I don't care how great a game is someone out there is ready to sell it, and in most cases they've upgraded, dialed it in, and u still save a little money. I just picked up a loaded HUO POTC LE with less than 80 game plays....game was perfect. All I did was stop by Cliff's house and picked up protectors, installed, and called it good.

He prefers to avoid the drama lol

So - in the case that there is bubbling/chipping on the upper right flipper post (as it is on mine), what is the best way to mitigate any further damage? Silicone washer where the post meets the playfield (similar to PoTC)? Mylar under that?

At this point I just have the game like you see it with the post off. I haven't dealt with it yet. I will probably put a silicone washer down and be done with it as long as I can get the post to stay in and not fall out within a couple of days.

My new Wonka SE born October 31
is perfect you can tell the newer playfields have the improved clearcoat.No pooling at all everthing nice and even.

This made me laugh. Trust me they haven’t.

UPDATE: Well yesterday I received my new IMDN unpopulated playfield. And it's stamped June 28, 2019...with no indication or paperwork that this has been recently clearcoated. So I have to assume that this replacement is going to do the EXACT same thing as the one I already have. This is extremely disappointing. My current playfield has 10+ posts with pooling plus cracking. So I swap playfields and have this happen all over again??

I wouldn't make that assumption. It is very possible the problem is cure time and not chemistry. To have an older and thickly coated clear coat with plenty of time to cure may be better than a new thinly coated clear coat with only a weeks cure time.

Besides, you can always clamp something to the surface in a hidden area and see if it develops a pool before you repopulate the entire field.

I’m still waiting on mine (Metallica). Did yours come pre-drilled for easier swapping?

I had a clearcoat+art lifting chip on my POTC near the base of a post. I used a small amount of super glue to lay the chip back down and put a neoprene washer under the post. There wasn’t any damage to the playfield wood on mine though. It was just the clear and art lifted up as a chip separating from the wood underneath and the wood underneath was still smooth.

With this JP2 flipper post it seems like it might be a different issue where there is playfield wood damage caused by the loosened post getting hit and bashing into the side of the post hole? If that’s the case then it seems like the post needs to be secured with threadlock and/or a nut, because any time it comes loose and gets bashed into the side of the post hole it’ll probably do the same thing.

Excellent points. It would be nice to know if cure time is the cause. My current playfield is actively getting worse as time goes on.

Yes.

Stern apparently corrected this issue on the LE's & Premium's...

I agree with you and would think the replacement will do exactly the same thing. Is there artwork right up around the posts like the original? If it looks exactly like the original playfield chances are it will perform like the original playfield.

Get more info from playfield restorers and do nothing until you are comfortable. Keep playing the game and enjoy it as much as possible.

If it was me, I would get a hard clearcoat put over the top of the new playfield.

This whole playfield thing is just shit. We the end user are not being looked after at all. A friend of mine has been offered an epoxy repair kit for his chipped and pooling playfield on his IMDNLE. WTF?

Does Stern require you to send in the defective palyfiled after you transfer the parts onto the new playfield?

No. If they send an unpopulated playfield it is yours to keep and do with it what you want (swap, keep as is, sell, whatever). If they send a populated playfield, you first need to send your old populated playfield back in an empty box they send you. Once Stern receives it, they will send you the new one.

How many hours does it take to install the already populated playfield vs the unpopulated one?

10 minutes vs 10 20 30 40 50hrs? Depends on your skill level, tools, etc. The average person would never even attempt it...

Nor would I want to. I don’t mind tinkering with my machines, in fact I like to. But to do an entire pd swap is total bs. Take the defective pf back and sell it as used games with defects. Than send a newly populated pf. And even more, do it right from the get go.

What’s your next nib purchase?

Still waiting to hear back regarding my Iron Maiden LE after more than three months.

Really want to buy a JP, picked up an Iron Man instead... and another 4 other non Stern games before that... no regrets.

Guess what? That Iron Man has 10k plays on it and it looks perfect. My 9k Maiden LE? Maybe 400, pooling everywhere, will probably start chipping soon. So lame.

If they fix my messed up 9k game I’ll go back to supporting them.

Otherwise, add me to the list of never NIB again if this gets swept under the rug... and I’ve bought a bunch over the years.

Also, a blank playfield is a serious kick to the balls... but at this point it seems like I’ll be lucky to get even that.

Yep I'm going on 3 months as well and I've heard nothing but f*cking crickets. To say I'm disappointed and pissed off would be an understatement.

I've bought 7 new Sterns and I love their games but for now they have lost me as a customer until i see what they are going to do which appears to be nothing.

I would love to have a JP2 and maybe a Elvira 3 but instead I am ordering a new Super Chexx Pro next week and my next game will most likely me a MBR SE. You wanna treat me, a good customers like shit and disrespect me by not even having the decency to respond to me then all I can say is F-YOU!! I'll just spend my money elsewhere.

Bought a Creature repro playfield from Mirco earlier this year. Started a playfield swap a few months ago. A few weeks ago I installed the star posts, then decided to change the post color at the slings. Here's what the playfield looks like when I removed the post. Looks a lot like pooling on these other playfields. The post appears to have sunk down into the clear. My old playfield doesn't look this bad and that's with 84,000+ plays on it. Keep in mind that the new playfield hasn't even been played yet.

sling post (resized).JPG

Is there some sort of support ticket process I should use in regards to my Stern playfield to get "the ball rolling"?

What have folks who have had success done?

I've got pooling in a few places on my Iron Maiden Premium, but no chipping as of yet (I typically don't play a lot at home).
I'm worried as I have one quite large pool up front, and I think a washer to cover it might interfere with balls due to the size.
It's also where the artwork is intricate, and thus probably impossible to do a paint touch up if it did chip there.

Advice appreciated

Thanks!

BobC