(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

83 days ago



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There are 3119 posts in this topic. You are on page 55 of 63.
#2701 23 days ago

How are people supposed to trust that the game they buy is going to be sorted if all they’ve got to go on is a vague comment that the problem is fixed?

It sounds to me like inducing more people into buying pins that might turn out to be faulty, with each individual customer having to get their issues resolved individually, like how it is now.

Acknowledging that a problem exists and then refusing to elaborate is worse than not acknowledging it, in my opinion. I struggle to conceive of what competitive disadvantage it would put either company in to divulge the basic process change or whatever that led to fixing the problem. They’re not splitting the atom here.

#2702 23 days ago
Quoted from Durzel:

How are people supposed to trust that the game they buy is going to be sorted if all they’ve got to go on is a vague comment that the problem is fixed?
It sounds to me like inducing more people into buying pins that might turn out to be faulty, with each individual customer having to get their issues resolved individually, like how it is now.
Acknowledging that a problem exists and then refusing to elaborate is worse than not acknowledging it, in my opinion. I struggle to conceive of what competitive disadvantage it would put either company in to divulge the basic process change or whatever that led to fixing the problem. They’re not splitting the atom here.

I encourage you all to stop buying them, so demand and prices go down.. and I can buy more..

#2703 23 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

You’re 100% correct. I’m just not comfortable with the manner in which many conduct themselves.

But this is pinball Mike

Coin pushers and the like

Still, I’m freaking loving these new games from Stern

Jack and JJP, still waiting on my pins paid for

#2704 23 days ago
Quoted from Durzel:

How are people supposed to trust that the game they buy is going to be sorted if all they’ve got to go on is a vague comment that the problem is fixed?
It sounds to me like inducing more people into buying pins that might turn out to be faulty, with each individual customer having to get their issues resolved individually, like how it is now.
Acknowledging that a problem exists and then refusing to elaborate is worse than not acknowledging it, in my opinion. I struggle to conceive of what competitive disadvantage it would put either company in to divulge the basic process change or whatever that led to fixing the problem. They’re not splitting the atom here.

If you are not comfortable do not buy NIB. There are plenty of people on here that have asked a distributer direct what will happen if they buy a game and it starts pooling? If the response does not suit, they have not purchased. Best way.

#2705 23 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

But this is pinball Mike
Coin pushers and the like
Still, I’m freaking loving these new games from Stern
Jack and JJP, still waiting on my pins paid for

Ice,

You’re right. JP is a terrific game and I sometimes regret canceling my LE, but I’m something of an anal sob when it comes to the condition of my collection.

I probably wouldn’t have done too well in the Wild West either.

#2706 22 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

If you are not comfortable do not buy NIB. There are plenty of people on here that have asked a distributer direct what will happen if they buy a game and it starts pooling? If the response does not suit, they have not purchased. Best way.

Of course, as with any purchasing decision everyone has to make their own peace with it. My point was more in general terms, that customers shouldn't be being put in the position of having to gamble on this stuff anyway. It is not legitimate to essentially say "well you pays your money you takes your chance!" to everyone who is interested in buying.

#2707 22 days ago

So Stern just let me know they will replace the playfield on my Met with some hairline clearcoat cracks around an outlane post. They gave me a choice between a populated playfield swap and an unpopulated playfield. I opted for the latter to avoid the hassle of the swap (undoing/redoing mods, playfield protection, etc.) and because the damage is currently not too bad and seems to have stabilized.

I am satisfied with this outcome. Stern has done right by me (assuming I actually get the new playfield soon!) and hope others with similar issues get taken care of. This is the second NIB from Stern I have purchased, and they also swapped my ghosting GB playfield. These clearcoat issues are definitely concerning, but I do feel like--at least in my case--Stern is standing behind the product. Once it seems like the vast majority of playfields going out are problem-free, I won't hesitate to buy another Stern.

#2708 22 days ago
Quoted from Spelunk71:

So Stern just let me know they will replace the playfield on my Met with some hairline clearcoat cracks around an outlane post. They gave me a choice between a populated playfield swap and an unpopulated playfield. I opted for the latter to avoid the hassle of the swap (undoing/redoing mods, playfield protection, etc.) and because the damage is currently not too bad and seems to have stabilized.
I am satisfied with this outcome. Stern has done right by me (assuming I actually get the new playfield soon!) and hope others with similar issues get taken care of. This is the second NIB from Stern I have purchased, and they also swapped my ghosting GB playfield. These clearcoat issues are definitely concerning, but I do feel like--at least in my case--Stern is standing behind the product. Once it seems like the vast majority of playfields going out are problem-free, I won't hesitate to buy another Stern.

Good news I'm on the fence about a new JP and I feel like I change my mind about 2-3 times an hour... lol.

#2709 22 days ago
Quoted from Spelunk71:

So Stern just let me know they will replace the playfield on my Met with some hairline clearcoat cracks around an outlane post. They gave me a choice between a populated playfield swap and an unpopulated playfield. I opted for the latter to avoid the hassle of the swap (undoing/redoing mods, playfield protection, etc.) and because the damage is currently not too bad and seems to have stabilized.
I am satisfied with this outcome. Stern has done right by me (assuming I actually get the new playfield soon!) and hope others with similar issues get taken care of. This is the second NIB from Stern I have purchased, and they also swapped my ghosting GB playfield. These clearcoat issues are definitely concerning, but I do feel like--at least in my case--Stern is standing behind the product. Once it seems like the vast majority of playfields going out are problem-free, I won't hesitate to buy another Stern.

Glad to hear it. Stern offered to swap mine out as well.

#2710 22 days ago
Quoted from IronMan8Bit:

Good news I'm on the fence about a new JP and I feel like I change my mind about 2-3 times an hour... lol.

It's the best game, all around, that I've ever played.

#2711 22 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

It's the best game, all around, that I've ever played.

They offered you a swap on your JP? If so that makes me feel even better about pulling the trigger.

15
#2712 22 days ago
Quoted from IronMan8Bit:

They offered you a swap on your JP? If so that makes me feel even better about pulling the trigger.

Yes. They are sending a fully populated PF to my local distributer, who will bring it over and do the swap for me. No down time.

#2713 22 days ago
Quoted from Spelunk71:

So Stern just let me know they will replace the playfield on my Met with some hairline clearcoat cracks around an outlane post. They gave me a choice between a populated playfield swap and an unpopulated playfield. I opted for the latter to avoid the hassle of the swap (undoing/redoing mods, playfield protection, etc.) and because the damage is currently not too bad and seems to have stabilized.
I am satisfied with this outcome. Stern has done right by me (assuming I actually get the new playfield soon!) and hope others with similar issues get taken care of. This is the second NIB from Stern I have purchased, and they also swapped my ghosting GB playfield. These clearcoat issues are definitely concerning, but I do feel like--at least in my case--Stern is standing behind the product. Once it seems like the vast majority of playfields going out are problem-free, I won't hesitate to buy another Stern.

This was on a Metallica? Do you have any pics you could share?

#2714 22 days ago
Quoted from Sako-TRG:

This was on a Metallica? Do you have any pics you could share?

Sure.

719F6E28-3402-43A0-9A13-22627B2E391D (resized).jpeg
#2715 22 days ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Of course, as with any purchasing decision everyone has to make their own peace with it. My point was more in general terms, that customers shouldn't be being put in the position of having to gamble on this stuff anyway. It is not legitimate to essentially say "well you pays your money you takes your chance!" to everyone who is interested in buying.

I do not think any of the manufacturers purposely set out to make "pooling playfields". I also think the manufacturers do not know how to handle the situation as they do not have enough staff and have been inundated with complaints. Right now, it is easier to reject most warranty claims. Do you own any games that have pooling or chipping? We do.

#2716 22 days ago
Quoted from Spelunk71:

Sure.[quoted image]

Thanks buddy, really sorry to see this but glad your getting sorted.
I have a fair bit of pooling and small hairlines near a ramp post on my IMDN but not as bad as yours.

11
#2717 22 days ago

I spoke to someone at Stern about during the tour privately because there was no point raising it at the seminars. The reply I got. They know about it, they are seriously pissed off about it, they believe they have fixed it. They are watching closely.

Neil

#2718 22 days ago

Hopefully they will make it right for the others (myself included) who have sent in pictures of blistering and cracking.

#2719 22 days ago

I’m thrilled that some of you with bad Stern playfields are getting populated playfields or true offers to fix from Stern. Impressed.

#2720 20 days ago
Quoted from wlf_:

We're all free to like and dislike whatever games we want, I've not noticed really anyone else in the dislike camp on JP3. Are you a JJP fan? I suppose I could see someone who gravitated to a more slow and steady old timer game like WOZ not caring as much for the way Jurassic Park plays

None of the above. I like games that play fast and are challenging.

I basically just don't care for new games with dinosaur themes.

Whether it is a dinosaur movie, a dinosaur rock band, or a dinosaur TV show or host, the only time of day I'm going to give it is maybe one or two balls played to see how it shoots. And then move on and not look back. Some say theme doesn't matter, but these kind are enough to make any game a hard pass for me.

#2721 20 days ago

So glad I'm able to enjoy pinball for its intrinsic merits, not just which celebrity they slap on the lunchbox.

#2722 20 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

So glad I'm able to enjoy pinball for its intrinsic merits, not just which celebrity they slap on the lunchbox.

Here's a relic of a lunchbox from 1992. Almost 30 years old now. I know, around here that probably makes it super modern.

But looks like the the playfield is still holding up fairly well.
download (resized).jpg

#2723 19 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

Here's a relic of a lunchbox from 1992. Almost 30 years old now. I know, around here that probably makes it super modern.
But looks like the the playfield is still holding up fairly well.
[quoted image]

The lunchbox has better art than the new JP.

#2724 19 days ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

The lunchbox has better art than the new JP.

They are counting on people remembering themes from their youth. Not if today's representations are as good as.

For those with good enough memories, that is all they really need. Not some pricey monument to keep on reminding them day after day until they are sick of the whole darn thing.

#2725 18 days ago
Quoted from JWP72:

Not sure. I submitted through my distributor. I just want Stern to know about it more than anything so they can fix it.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/continued-playfield-issues-with-jjp-and-stern/page/5#post-5165915
I'm posting my pictures because this is literally the first pinball machine I've ever bought. And I shelled out $10,800 CAD for it. $8100 USD. I bought NIB because I thought "Hey it's new, there should/may only be a few mechanical issues. I can deal with that." But this is something I have no control over and I'm now watching the playfield creep up on a post I just moved, meaning the problem is currently on-going and getting worse. That doesn't seem right to me. Now I'm not here with my pitchfork like some people. I'm here to show what's going on and hopefully be part of the solution to the problem instead of whining about it. And I would like other people that are considering spending that kind of money to know that this is the quality of product you're getting.

UPDATE: Stern is sending me a brand new unpopulated playfield

#2726 18 days ago
Quoted from JWP72:

UPDATE: Stern is sending me a brand new unpopulated playfield

Will you charge them for the PF swap later down the track?

#2727 18 days ago

Havent heard a thing about my playfield issues, dont be so sure stern will take care of you..

11
#2728 18 days ago
Quoted from JWP72:

UPDATE: Stern is sending me a brand new unpopulated playfield

why wouldn't u get a fully loaded play field? sounds like u had serious issues so why settle for an unpopulated play field?

14
#2729 17 days ago

So I thought this was pretty cool of Stern...

They already said they'd send my distro a populated PF because of the problems I had. One of those problems involved a missing part.

The new PF was expected to take a few weeks. So they sent me the replacement part in advance so I could enjoy the game the correct way while I waited. They didn't have to do that, and I didn't even ask for that, but they did it anyway.

#2730 17 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

So I thought this was pretty cool of Stern...
They already said they'd send my distro a populated PF because of the problems I had. One of those problems involved a missing part.
The new PF was expected to take a few weeks. So they sent me the replacement part in advance so I could enjoy the game the correct way while I waited. They didn't have to do that, and I didn't even ask for that, but they did it anyway.

That is good to know, what was wrong with the PF exactly?

#2731 17 days ago
Quoted from libtech:

Havent heard a thing about my playfield issues, dont be so sure stern will take care of you..

I've heard crickets as well. Not even an email to tell me I've been denied service...

#2732 17 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I've heard crickets as well. Not even an email to tell me I've been denied service...

Same here, been 2 months
I also want to buy a JP and plan to buy many more games down the road but if they dont even have the courtesy to get back to me, a guy that has already bought seven NIB games from them then I will never buy NIB again.

#2733 17 days ago
Quoted from extendo:

That is good to know, what was wrong with the PF exactly?

Missing parts, a peeled paint (probably from bad apron install), wrong color insert, some pooling wherever the side walls touched the PF (3 spots that I can see), and some other nit-picky stuff. Thankfully mine appears to be an anomaly.

#2734 17 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Missing parts, a peeled paint (probably from bad apron install), wrong color insert, some pooling wherever the side walls touched the PF (3 spots that I can see), and some other nit-picky stuff. Thankfully mine appears to be an anomaly.

If you mean complete dumpster fire, you are correct!

#2735 17 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Same here, been 2 months
I also want to buy a JP and plan to buy many more games down the road but if they dont even have the courtesy to get back to me, a guy that has already bought seven NIB games from them then I will never buy NIB again.

Ditto. Guessing there’s a lot to go through. It would be insane to not take care of repeat buyers, I’m still confident they’ll take care of me eventually. I’m happy to wait as long as it takes to get a new PF, but do wish they would hurry up and at least tell me yay or nay so I can just buy JP already!

#2736 17 days ago

Ok so I tested the hair dryer method on one sling post on my Wonka and it worked pretty well actually. You could see a line where the clear coat had bunched up but it went smooth again. Big improvement. This gives me hope all my bunched posts on my POTC can be saved before they chip. So far I have one chip on the playfield I can’t hide. I’m thinking of using the hair dryer and some neoprene washers. Once the bunched up clearcoat is smoothed much less likely to chip. I am very curious how many other people have tried that method and how successful it has been. Please post your results.

#2737 17 days ago
Quoted from GamerRick:

Ok so I tested the hair dryer method on one sling post on my Wonka and it worked pretty well actually. You could see a line where the clear coat had bunched up but it went smooth again. Big improvement. This gives me hope all my bunched posts on my POTC can be saved before they chip. So far I have one chip on the playfield I can’t hide. I’m thinking of using the hair dryer and some neoprene washers. Once the bunched up clearcoat is smoothed much less likely to chip. I am very curious how many other people have tried that method and how successful it has been. Please post your results.

There is a thread dedicated to this. I'd recommend checking it out.

#2738 17 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Same here, been 2 months
I also want to buy a JP and plan to buy many more games down the road but if they dont even have the courtesy to get back to me, a guy that has already bought seven NIB games from them then I will never buy NIB again.

Yup, me to, was going to buy a deadpool, but its looking like I'm done with NIB sterns.

#2739 17 days ago
Quoted from libtech:

I was going to buy a deadpool, but its looking like I'm done with NIB sterns.

It sounds like your intent to buy a deadpool is now dead because of pooling issues? Hello, irony.

25
#2740 17 days ago

The vibe I’m getting with this, with both JJP and Stern, is that they’re both just going to keep quiet about it, tell distros that they’ve “identified an issue and have resolved it” (whether they have or not) and let the community basically flame out over it.

People can’t sustain acrimony about this stuff indefinitely, there will be a fresh outrage in pinball before too long and that’s where people’s attention will go.

Meanwhile the poor bastards who have suffered from this problem are left trying to get it resolved, with ever diminishing public pressure, with varying levels of success or radio silence in some cases. Clearly not everyone is going to be treated like hawkmoon77 has - with a replacement populated PF.

Let’s look at this cynically shall we..

- Appease one or two vocal customers with top tier service
- Said customers report these customer service experiences on the issues thread (here)
- Bystanders and other customers think “Stern are doing the right thing, going above and beyond, that’s the mark of a great company” etc
- Bystanders drift out of the thread thinking that Stern are handling it, and go back to being satisfied to buy NIB pins in future.
- In reality only a lucky few may get made whole, the rest are chasing for updates or getting no replies at all, or subpar results (unpopulated PFs etc)
- But that doesn’t matter at this point because the sentiment is that Stern are putting things right because there is SOME evidence of it.

Someone in these companies would’ve made a clinical decision about whether it was cheaper and better PR to acknowledge publicly the problem or not. It seems it’s deemed better to pretend there wasn’t a problem, or if there was that is “been resolved” with no specifics whatsoever, and just wait for people on here to get bored of talking about it.

#2741 17 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

There is a thread dedicated to this. I'd recommend checking it out.

This is so bizarre to me. Warming a clear coat is not supposed to make it do that. Are they not using laquer?

14
#2742 17 days ago
Quoted from Durzel:

The vibe I’m getting with this, with both JJP and Stern, is that they’re both just going to keep quiet about it, tell distros that they’ve “identified an issue and have resolved it” (whether they have or not) and let the community basically flame out over it.
People can’t sustain acrimony about this stuff indefinitely, there will be a fresh outrage in pinball before too long and that’s where people’s attention will go.
Meanwhile the poor bastards who have suffered from this problem are left trying to get it resolved, with ever diminishing public pressure, with varying levels of success or radio silence in some cases. Clearly not everyone is going to be treated like hawkmoon77 has - with a replacement populated PF.
Let’s look at this cynically shall we..
- Appease one or two vocal customers with top tier service
- Said customers report these customer service experiences on the issues thread (here)
- Bystanders and other customers think “Stern are doing the right thing, going above and beyond, that’s the mark of a great company” etc
- Bystanders drift out of the thread thinking that Stern are handling it, and go back to being satisfied to buy NIB pins in future.
- In reality only a lucky few may get made whole, the rest are chasing for updates or getting no replies at all, or subpar results (unpopulated PFs etc)
- But that doesn’t matter at this point because the sentiment is that Stern are putting things right because there is SOME evidence of it.
Someone in these companies would’ve made a clinical decision about whether it was cheaper and better PR to acknowledge publicly the problem or not. It seems it’s deemed better to pretend there wasn’t a problem, or if there was that is “been resolved” with no specifics whatsoever, and just wait for people on here to get bored of talking about it.

Not me, I’m a big NIB buyer that past 3-4 years. But I am out out out on NIB indefinitely with Stern and JJP pins. This lack of transparency is Ridiculous. HUO works for me. Looks and inspect before I buy. Let others be their sheep. Fuck it. Peace out

#2743 17 days ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Not me, I’m a big NIB buyer that past 3-4 years. But I am out out out on NIB indefinitely with Stern and JJP pins. This lack of transparency is Ridiculous. HUO works for me. Looks and inspect before I buy. Let others be their sheep. Fuck it. Peace out

I thought you were selling all your pins?

#2744 17 days ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I am out out out on NIB indefinitely with Stern

After 6 of them, and some problems Stern ignored completely, I will not be buying anymore of their games. Recently I purchased both AP games nib, and I am totally happy with their games, and looking forward to their 3rd release.

However, Stern did nail it with TWD, and that machine has never had the first problem, so it will never go anywhere.

#2745 17 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I've heard crickets as well. Not even an email to tell me I've been denied service...

I've had issues with both JJP and Stern games and my experience is that they will supply a new playfield if there is documented chipping (along with significant pooling) and you are polite and persistent. From what I can tell, they are only supplying populated playfieds when the game is still in warranty, i.e. basically fresh out of the box.

#2746 16 days ago

So what we have now is a huge bunch of Pins floating about the globe that have and will put the community in a unsettled position. I for one won’t be buying any newish Pins between certain dates. What about all those ones boxed up at the distros waiting to be sold....

For the used pin market:

- Sellers trying to move a pin knowing they have PF issues making a financial loss or trying to find an unsuspecting buyer

- Buyers going in with a PF forensic inspection kit prior to purchase to prevent buying one of the de-laminators

Nice.

#2747 16 days ago
Quoted from Durzel:

The vibe I’m getting with this, with both JJP and Stern, is that they’re both just going to keep quiet about it, tell distros that they’ve “identified an issue and have resolved it” (whether they have or not) and let the community basically flame out over it.
People can’t sustain acrimony about this stuff indefinitely, there will be a fresh outrage in pinball before too long and that’s where people’s attention will go.
Meanwhile the poor bastards who have suffered from this problem are left trying to get it resolved, with ever diminishing public pressure, with varying levels of success or radio silence in some cases. Clearly not everyone is going to be treated like hawkmoon77 has - with a replacement populated PF.
Let’s look at this cynically shall we..
- Appease one or two vocal customers with top tier service
- Said customers report these customer service experiences on the issues thread (here)
- Bystanders and other customers think “Stern are doing the right thing, going above and beyond, that’s the mark of a great company” etc
- Bystanders drift out of the thread thinking that Stern are handling it, and go back to being satisfied to buy NIB pins in future.
- In reality only a lucky few may get made whole, the rest are chasing for updates or getting no replies at all, or subpar results (unpopulated PFs etc)
- But that doesn’t matter at this point because the sentiment is that Stern are putting things right because there is SOME evidence of it.
Someone in these companies would’ve made a clinical decision about whether it was cheaper and better PR to acknowledge publicly the problem or not. It seems it’s deemed better to pretend there wasn’t a problem, or if there was that is “been resolved” with no specifics whatsoever, and just wait for people on here to get bored of talking about it.

This is too big of an issue to flame out. Everyone impacted needs to be focused until the situation is resolved.

The first thing is to determine whether new issues for Stern/JJP sure no longer happening for games manufactured after August/September 2019. If so, good.

The second thing is that anyone that does have pooling and/or chipping (and I would add anyone with a game that the mfg sent out with washers under the posts) needs to continue pressing their distribs and the mfgs until they are satisfied with the resolution. Stories of others getting successful resolution isn’t going to placate me if I have a similar unresolved problem.

Distributors and end users shouldn’t accept the word of Stern and JJP - this issue must be continue to be reported policed by the community until any pooling related issue is a distant memory. Both Stern and JJP had opportunities to get out in front of this and be honest about scope, root cause and resolution (if known). Both punted big time. It doesn’t seem like either saw this as a serious problem until sales ground to a halt this summer and the only reason that happened is because of threads like these.

As the cost of NIB machines rises, so should expectations. If the community lets this go before the last pooling problem has been resolved, shame on us.

#2748 16 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I thought you were selling all your pins?

Nah

#2749 16 days ago

Yeah I've heard nothing from stern on my issues. More art just keeps coming off. 2+ months.

#2750 16 days ago

A buddy of mine just took delivery of a JP2LE and put it on location. Having seen/played the game the clearcoat looks perfect (no pooling), the art has been removed from around the posts as others have noted on the LE playfields as well.

Going simply from my personal opinion I would also say that the clearcoat is a lot thinner than what Stern was producing prior to this. I don't really have an opinion on whether thinner CC is good or bad at this point.

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