(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

83 days ago



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There are 3113 posts in this topic. You are on page 50 of 63.
#2451 34 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I've purchased many NIB games, but due to the FACTS (shitty customer service) have stopped purchasing anything new from JJP or Stern. I'm perfectly happy buying on the secondary market or waiting for CGC to release their next game.

There you go Ptown, I’ve stated repeatedly over the years that is the smart way to do it!

And btw, my MBRLE is a beautiful awesome machine so I agree on the CGC next game

-4
#2452 34 days ago

I also didn’t mean to imply Stern or JJ won’t fix the machines. It seems Stern does respond with populated playfields for serious cases, so I’d first recommend trying to work with your distributor. That’s what I did with my completely defunct Wonka LE. But if you do follow the requirements of the UCC, you would be able to sue if you wanted to if the manufacturer didn’t fix it. And to be technical, your UCC claim would be against your distributor, who is the party you actually contracted with. Then they would have to pursue a claim against the manufacturer to make them whole.

19
#2453 34 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Define “shit itself” RD
Because I buy a lot of Nib games and my pins have never “shit themselves”
So I do t want one of those either
But if you think pooling, minor ghosting is “shitting itself” then good luck as a distributor RD
What we all want is different from the legal issues and how defects are cured, like it or not
If Stern doesn’t do a good job on that front then they will go out business.
Yet I still see them selling out games like hot cakes one after another title. Those are the facts

I’m not a “mint condition guy” ... I have 130 machines and only like 10 were bought new. I just want them to be tidy and to play excellently, because — I play them. Hard.

However, recently a few of my buddies have got new pins and they’ve all been defective.

kiwipinhead has some, another buddy bought 2 last month and both have bad playfields. When he phoned the distributor about it, he was asked to “bring them both into the warehouse and we will take a look at them”. They cost $24,000, and he was asked to load them in his van and take them there. whaaaaatttt!

I would define a machine with paint flaking off the playfield as “shit itself” for sure.

A small mark on the cabinet .. some loose screws .. a flakey switch ... whatever. But a faulty playfield ... not good.

rd

#2454 34 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There you go Ptown, I’ve stated repeatedly over the years that is the smart way to do it!
And btw, my MBRLE is a beautiful awesome machine so I agree on the CGC next game

u got that right....MBRLE is incredible....

#2455 34 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm actually both and a registered investment adviser RIA under the SEC and fiduciary duty rule. That's how i make my living, charging a fixed fee to manage assets as a financial adviser, lower than most every adviser i might add, while integrating estate planning and tax advice for my clients at no additional cost. I have about $350 million of assets under mgt., 1200 accounts or so with TD Ameritrade as custodian.
And i love what i do in helping people. I doubt i'll ever really retire from doing that OR the pinball hobby!
Back to discussing PF issues and i hope JJP and Stern finally have this shit figured out.

Iceman puts the douche in fiduciary.

Bahahaha, kidding bro. I had to!

#2456 33 days ago

Well, so many of these theories on the playfield issues do have a basis to them no doubt. But one that I have not seen come up yet is the proper preparation of the playfield itself before any material is applied. As all of us know these playfields are a dry wood surface that is absorbent before being painted/inked or whatever. But its quite possible that somewhere before artwork is applied some type of oil contamination could be happening. Maybe its from a machine that moves them down a line somewhere, maybe its just a light spray from a hydraulic cylinder somewhere along the line before it gets to the art work being applied. But if it is a thin mild mist from another part of the process it would be easily absorbed and would not show on a visual inspection. This possibility should be looking into by the manufacturer. Its costing them plenty of money and sales to ignore the possibility of contamination.

#2457 33 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

He is local. The store is owned by a great guy and a long time pinball fan. It's called Little Shop of Games.

I don't live in Orlando anymore and use a more local distributor now, but I would also like to give a shout-out to Curly, Joe and the gang at Little Shop of Games. Great people to do business with who take the hobby seriously.

#2458 33 days ago
Quoted from GamerRick:

I also didn’t mean to imply Stern or JJ won’t fix the machines. It seems Stern does respond with populated playfields for serious cases, so I’d first recommend trying to work with your distributor. That’s what I did with my completely defunct Wonka LE. But if you do follow the requirements of the UCC, you would be able to sue if you wanted to if the manufacturer didn’t fix it. And to be technical, your UCC claim would be against your distributor, who is the party you actually contracted with. Then they would have to pursue a claim against the manufacturer to make them whole.

OK Matlock, that's enough now. Back to night court with you. Judge Harry is waiting

Sorry, couldn't resist making two dated references together

#2459 33 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'm liking the sound of Stern's Kryptonite playfield coating, harder than a diamond and you will never need mylar.

Don't forget the Stealth coat of the Data East years.

#2460 33 days ago
Quoted from chad:

Don't forget the Stealth coat of the Data East years.

I've got Williams games from the early 60s with Plasticote that are holding up better than these pieces of crap.

#2461 33 days ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

Well, so many of these theories on the playfield issues do have a basis to them no doubt. But one that I have not seen come up yet is the proper preparation of the playfield itself before any material is applied. As all of us know these playfields are a dry wood surface that is absorbent before being painted/inked or whatever. But its quite possible that somewhere before artwork is applied some type of oil contamination could be happening. Maybe its from a machine that moves them down a line somewhere, maybe its just a light spray from a hydraulic cylinder somewhere along the line before it gets to the art work being applied. But if it is a thin mild mist from another part of the process it would be easily absorbed and would not show on a visual inspection. This possibility should be looking into by the manufacturer. Its costing them plenty of money and sales to ignore the possibility of contamination.

Well, we know that Mirco made pfs without any issues before these incidents so unless he changed the program on his machine line I would say he changed the clearcoat mixture...there is a video where he says he's now using his own proprietary clearcoat formula. So I'm going with occam's razor principle on this one till we get a definitive answer.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wonka-le-sling-post-chipping-/page/32#post-5180658

#2462 33 days ago
Quoted from kvan99:

I would say he changed the clearcoat mixture.

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-1
#2463 33 days ago
Quoted from rotordave:

I’m not a “mint condition guy” ... I have 130 machines and only like 10 were bought new. I just want them to be tidy and to play excellently, because — I play them. Hard.
However, recently a few of my buddies have got new pins and they’ve all been defective.
kiwipinhead has some, another buddy bought 2 last month and both have bad playfields. When he phoned the distributor about it, he was asked to “bring them both into the warehouse and we will take a look at them”. They cost $24,000, and he was asked to load them in his van and take them there. whaaaaatttt!
I would define a machine with paint flaking off the playfield as “shit itself” for sure.
A small mark on the cabinet .. some loose screws .. a flakey switch ... whatever. But a faulty playfield ... not good.
rd

Yes I know you well RD buddy!

Paint flaking sucks. Kiwi has been around a long time and I hate to see it happen to him

The bottom line really is “buyer beware”. And get a good distributor that you can count on

I just set up my JPLE and love it, haven’t looked for any imperfections but if I could play a HUO pin and wear out the PF in my lifetime, that would be a major accomplishment

Can you play 130 pins down to the bare wood? Man if you can you got a lot more time and I’m jealous!

#2464 33 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

u got that right....MBRLE is incredible....

Quoted from PW79:

Iceman puts the douche in fiduciary.
Bahahaha, kidding bro. I had to!

I love you Curly you skeptical bastard! Yes I’m still waiting on a Golden tee. Problem is so many great f ing pins have come out I haven’t shifted to plan B yet

That’s pretty damn good, I just caught the “douche” reference

JP kicks ass

-1
#2465 33 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

I've got Williams games from the early 60s with Plasticote that are holding up better than these pieces of crap.

We’re there any ramps on those games Odiner? How about the ball speed you old fart

And you f ers can take advantage of me when I go to sell my games. I give ZERO discount for pooling but it will be a fire sale price anyhow

#2466 33 days ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

GamerRick's been on Pinside for 1 year and has 6 really nice pins, while iceman has been on Pinside 8 years and has 19 great pins.
Based on that I'd have to side with iceman. (Although if Rick adds six NIB pins every year he could even things up pretty quick.)

Actually I have three coming next week. This makes my legal opinion more valid? The number of pins I own? Yeah right.

#2467 33 days ago
Quoted from Chrizg:

27 plays in[quoted image][quoted image]

This dude played down to bare wood in 27 plays.....that’s what the issue is....not damaged HUO games from normal use forchristsakes. Intentionally obtuse?

#2468 33 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

We’re there any ramps on those games Odiner? How about the ball speed you old fart

Got kickout holes that will launch the ball airborne flying at warp speed, does that count?

#2469 33 days ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

GamerRick's been on Pinside for 1 year and has 6 really nice pins, while iceman has been on Pinside 8 years and has 19 great pins.
Based on that I'd have to side with iceman. (Although if Rick adds six NIB pins every year he could even things up pretty quick.)

I’m dumber for having read this..

26
#2470 33 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Can you play 130 pins down to the bare wood? Man if you can you got a lot more time and I’m jealous!

A “home use only” pin will likely never get any wear at all, just clean them and change out the balls when they look crappy. And half of you guys hardly play them anyway.

But that’s missing the point ...

The point is, these things are shipping out in a sub-par state ... the buyer shouldn’t have to be “buyer beware”, he’s buying a brand new pinball machine with a big pile of his hard earned money, and he should expect the playfield to last for years. Not weeks.

If you’re willing to accept stuff which the price is going up and up, and the quality is going down and down, that’s awesome!

But bad playfields shouldn’t be happening.

And it needs to be sorted out.

rd

#2471 33 days ago

I think Iceman and Rick need to do some sort of super drink off at Expo if they are going and hold a Kangaroo court on the issue. Zach Meny can act as the judge.

#2472 33 days ago
Quoted from davijc02:

I think Iceman and Rick need to do some sort of super drink off at Expo if they are going and hold some sort of Kangaroo court on the issue. Zach Meny can act as the judge.

dollar.gif
#2473 33 days ago
Quoted from GamerRick:

Actually I have three coming next week. This makes my legal opinion more valid? The number of pins I own? Yeah right.

Don't worry about the sheep.... hearing what you want to hear is more critically valued on pinside than having to face realities. Hence the mob flocking to any prophet preaching what they want to hear.

Your comments have been much appreciated.

#2474 33 days ago

I have actually had 90s Bally/Williams games worn to the wood. By the flipper buttons.

#2475 33 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Don't worry about the sheep.... hearing what you want to hear is more critically valued on pinside than having to face realities. Hence the mob flocking to any prophet preaching what they want to hear.
Your comments have been much appreciated.

I don’t. Never do. I’m not on here for ego and rarely even mention anything legal. I’m on here because I love pinball. I also find pinball a great release from daily life. It’s all pure fun. But some comments about these issues were just way off and I felt like helping my fellow pinballers. I’m not losing sleep over comments or downvotes. And in my line of work my skin is thicker than an alligator. No worries.

-4
#2476 33 days ago
Quoted from rotordave:

A “home use only” pin will likely never get any wear at all, just clean them and change out the balls when they look crappy. And half of you guys hardly play them anyway.
But that’s missing the point ...
The point is, these things are shipping out in a sub-par state ... the buyer shouldn’t have to be “buyer beware”, he’s buying a brand new pinball machine with a big pile of his hard earned money, and he should expect the playfield to last for years. Not weeks.
If you’re willing to accept stuff which the price is going up and up, and the quality is going down and down, that’s awesome!
But bad playfields shouldn’t be happening.
And it needs to be sorted out.
rd

And people are free to buy or not buy. What’s your point? How many “bad pf’s” are there that don’t get taken care of by Stern?

What about Spooky?

I just spent a few hours on my new JPLE and loved it

And no, imho the quality is getting better

JJP? Can’t comment on it yet

#2477 33 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Don't worry about the sheep.... hearing what you want to hear is more critically valued on pinside than having to face realities. Hence the mob flocking to any prophet preaching what they want to hear.
Your comments have been much appreciated.

Aren’t you the all knowing prophet of pinball and everything else?

Maybe stay in your lane. Whatever that is

I’ll be at TPF, not Expo, drinks on me

-1
#2478 33 days ago
Quoted from rotordave:

The point is, these things are shipping out in a sub-par state ... the buyer shouldn’t have to be “buyer beware”, he’s buying a brand new pinball machine with a big pile of his hard earned money, and he should expect the playfield to last for years. Not weeks.

Yeah, well...what’s your point? Oh, sorry you actually directly stated your point. Literally used the phrase “the point is”

#2479 33 days ago

What the hell are you guys even arguing about at this point.

#2480 33 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

This dude played down to bare wood in 27 plays.....that’s what the issue is....not damaged HUO games from normal use forchristsakes. Intentionally obtuse?

call Rick the UCC lawyer

How many claims have been made in the prior 30 years of operation by Stern?

How about Bally/Williams ?

#2481 33 days ago

Missed point again lol

#2482 33 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

What the hell are you guys even arguing about at this point.

Well I’m enjoying my new JPLE game and waiting on Elvira LE next week.

Elwin and Stern have hit it out of the park again with JP.

If you actually play pinball you can’t help but love this game and pinball

Hate away. Some people just can’t/won’t give it up

If you have an issue with Stern. CALL them and/or your Distro. Forget about calling Saul!

#2483 33 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

What the hell are you guys even arguing about at this point.

I think we are being told by lawyers to overlook the playfield issues as they are now all fixed.

#2484 33 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

I think we are being told by lawyers to overlook the playfield issues as they are now all fixed.

You aren’t being told anything Odin

And YOU have no dog in the hunt either

Then again I just unboxed my new Stern game and omg, I just can’t find a f ing thing to reject my pin about. Oh the horror

But stoke up the fire, whatever, Better call Saul buddy

#2485 33 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And YOU have no dog in the hunt either

Woof!

Unknown (resized).jpg
#2486 33 days ago
Quoted from GamerRick:

I also didn’t mean to imply Stern or JJ won’t fix the machines. It seems Stern does respond with populated playfields for serious cases, so I’d first recommend trying to work with your distributor. That’s what I did with my completely defunct Wonka LE. But if you do follow the requirements of the UCC, you would be able to sue if you wanted to if the manufacturer didn’t fix it. And to be technical, your UCC claim would be against your distributor, who is the party you actually contracted with. Then they would have to pursue a claim against the manufacturer to make them whole.

I dont understand why so many people are downvoting you lol Ice I can understand, since he is a lawyer, the rest just seem to be on his jock! Thanks for the information!!

#2488 33 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I dont understand why so many people are downvoting you lol Ice I can understand, since he is a lawyer, the rest just seem to be on his jock! Thanks for the information!!

Take a look at the roster of downvotes Rooster

It’s a badge of honor, trust me

When you are defensive and explaining with excuses you are lost and don’t get it

People that really get it know the truth and can make their own decisions

#2489 33 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Yes I know you well RD buddy!

Can you play 130 pins down to the bare wood? Man if you can you got a lot more time and I’m jealous!

Don't you have 1.49 more seconds to non-lawyers 1 seconds of time? Get to flippin!

#2490 33 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Don't you have 1.49 more seconds to non-lawyers 1 seconds of time? Get to flippin!

Lol. Yeah, f ing lawyers, heading back out to JP

I’m gonna need to buy a magnifying glass tomorrow to make sure I can preserve any UCC claims I might have against Stern

It’s been fun and entertaining but can’t get sucked into the negative cesspool again

I’m already swirling down the toilet !

#2491 33 days ago

If I ever have to go to court, I want Iceman as my lawyer.

And I want him all liquored up when we go see the judge.

"Case dismissed!"

#2492 33 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

If I ever have to go to court, I want Iceman as my lawyer.
And I want him all liquored up when we go see the judge.
"Case dismissed!"

I want GamerRick as my lawyer, and Iceman as my accountant, so he can keep a check on GamerRicks billable seconds!

#2493 33 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I dont understand why so many people are downvoting you lol Ice I can understand, since he is a lawyer, the rest just seem to be on his jock! Thanks for the information!!

In the age of social media and political divisiveness, it seems to be the thing to do. Doesn’t bother me a bit. I’m also a Marine, so this is just child’s play. And your welcome.

#2494 33 days ago
Quoted from GamerRick:

In the age of social media and political divisiveness, it seems to be the thing to do. Doesn’t bother me a bit. I’m also a Marine, so this is just child’s play. And your welcome.

Semper Fi, Im a former Marine, but not a lawyer!!!

#2495 33 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

call Rick the UCC lawyer
How many claims have been made in the prior 30 years of operation by Stern?
How about Bally/Williams ?

Quoted from Wickerman2:

Missed point again lol

Yes he did. Happens often.

#2496 33 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Semper Fi, Im a former Marine, but not a lawyer!!!

Oooohraaah Devil Dog!

1811. Tanker.

#2497 33 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I want GamerRick as my lawyer, and Iceman as my accountant, so he can keep a check on GamerRicks billable seconds!

Now that right there is some funny shit!

Quoted from GamerRick:

Yes he did. Happens often.

Agreeing with Wickerman doesn't count, a leader of the don't get it club. LOL

#2498 33 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

heading back out to JP

That good eh? Kept you entertained for a whole 15 minutes.

#2499 33 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Now that right there is some funny shit!

Agreeing with Wickerman doesn't count, a leader of the don't get it club. LOL

It’s becoming clear why you have 19,000 posts. You keep going like the Energizer bunny.

#2500 33 days ago
Quoted from GamerRick:

I have three coming next week. This makes my legal opinion more valid? The number of pins I own?

Quoted from knockerlover:

I’m dumber for having read this.

I don't use emojis and I never will. I usually trust people can catch the implied humor. Apparently not this time.
Guess you gentlemen haven't read many of my posts (mostly attempts at humor or sarcasm).
Then again, my wife tells me I'm not as funny as I think I am. I would hate to think she's right.

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