(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

62 days ago



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There are 2719 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 55.
#201 60 days ago

This blows, i am so excited to get my JPLE,

called my distro and requested my authorization at a later date before it leaves the dock...fix it please Stern.

#202 60 days ago

Stern and JJP must be seriously worried by these issues.

How much would it cost to replace all the defective playfields? Especially if fully populated?

No wonder no one is saying anything.

If they admit liability, the floodgates open.

Man, I hope this issue gets rectified quickly.

#203 60 days ago
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#204 60 days ago

making pinball is really hard

#205 60 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

making pinball is really hard

Delivering pinball and other games must be even harder.

#206 60 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Nice back and forth fellas - well played!

very well played

#207 60 days ago

I'm really starting to think this is a heat and humidity issue during manufacturing. The Stern factory is likely not air conditioned, and we know these JP games were built in the last week or two, when we have had some very hot weather. Does the new water borne clear suck humidity back no into it if applied in a heavy layer? Does the heavy layer not fully cure under the current curing conditions at the playfield factory? Is the water based clear sucking humidity back into itself again after the normal curing process at the factory?

Is the clear trapping the humidity in the wood and causing a delamination of the printing and softer clear coat? I had a gottlieb machine once that spent time outdoors under roof on a golf course in Maryland humidity. When I went to mask the playfield for touch-up, the playfield artwork came up in sheets and completely delaminated from the wood when I removed the mask. I believe the humidity wicked into the wood and caused the ink and clear coat to release itself. Could this be happening with the new clear coat?

#208 60 days ago
Quoted from jardine:

Lol!! Legal issues!! Yeah...lets go sue Stern...really?!?! How about just trying to get a resolution rather than this stupid type of action!

you are a damn idiot. I don't care who the company is, if you publicly state your product has issues it automatically makes you liable and open for easy class action law suites. I did not say everyone sue Stern. I got your resolution: DO NOT BUY A NIB STERN OR JJP AT THE MOMENT.

#209 60 days ago
Quoted from libtech:

Damn, should a guy cancel and wait.

As a supporter of JJP and Stern I would wait. At this point neither Jack or Stern has come out with a viable solution is poor customer service. I just don't get how these games that are new and under warranty the solution is a washer kit or a new pf at 550$, in JJP's case.

Quoted from aingide:

Does the washer make it worse??

Quoted from AUKraut:

Theoretically the washer should help, as it increases the contact area and spreads out the downward pressure, lessening it onto any given point. Apparently it's not enough though.....

Few folks have posted that they installed the washers to only have the wrinkling still occur.

#210 60 days ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

“Hey they are noticing the bad clear on our playfields “
“ They are?”
“Yes I bunch of pooling and chipped PF pics are going up online”
“ Just release a new code update to distract them”
“Will do”

And JJP’s new WW code update just dropped.....

#211 60 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Stern and JJP must be seriously worried by these issues.
How much would it cost to replace all the defective playfields? Especially if fully populated?
No wonder no one is saying anything.
If they admit liability, the floodgates open.
Man, I hope this issue gets rectified quickly.

I feel really bad for the distros too (especially the good guys who consistently have our backs, like JJ); I am sure they are sweating bullets right about now because this is potentially even more of an existential threat to them than to the manufacturers. If you are in the market for any used games, definitely give these guys a shot at your business! (I have been to the GEx showroom three times, and can vouch for the quality of their used games - buy from them with confidence.)

This is unfortunately shaping up to possibly be the biggest systemic problem we have seen in NIB pinball in a long time (maybe ever), and it MUST be addressed sooner rather than later to avoid significant harm to the pinball hobby itself.

#212 60 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I'm really starting to think this is a heat and humidity issue during manufacturing. The Stern factory is likely not air conditioned, and we know these JP games were built in the last week or two, when we have had some very hot weather. Does the new water borne clear suck humidity back no into it if applied in a heavy layer? Does the heavy layer not fully cure under the current curing conditions at the playfield factory? Is the water based clear sucking humidity back into itself again after the normal curing process at the factory?
Is the clear trapping the humidity in the wood and causing a delamination of the printing and softer clear coat? I had a gottlieb machine once that spent time outdoors under roof on a golf course in Maryland humidity. When I went to mask the playfield for touch-up, the playfield artwork came up in sheets and completely delaminated from the wood when I removed the mask. I believe the humidity wicked into the wood and caused the ink and clear coat to release itself. Could this be happening with the new clear coat?

Exactly the kind of questions I am asking myself.

#213 60 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I'm really starting to think this is a heat and humidity issue during manufacturing. The Stern factory is likely not air conditioned, and we know these JP games were built in the last week or two, when we have had some very hot weather. Does the new water borne clear suck humidity back no into it if applied in a heavy layer? Does the heavy layer not fully cure under the current curing conditions at the playfield factory? Is the water based clear sucking humidity back into itself again after the normal curing process at the factory?
Is the clear trapping the humidity in the wood and causing a delamination of the printing and softer clear coat? I had a gottlieb machine once that spent time outdoors under roof on a golf course in Maryland humidity. When I went to mask the playfield for touch-up, the playfield artwork came up in sheets and completely delaminated from the wood when I removed the mask. I believe the humidity wicked into the wood and caused the ink and clear coat to release itself. Could this be happening with the new clear coat?

Mirco makes JJP playfields. They are based in Germany.

33
#214 60 days ago

I just think it's kinda funny that THIS is suddenly the straw that broke the camel's back with regards to you people who blindly buy every single NIB like it was a friggin' subscription service. Sorry, but I don't believe any of you saying you quit Stern. Stern's been egging you on, trying to get you to quit them for years now. You're still here.....

- Stern switching to a non-repairable node-based architecture that is prone to [daisy-chained] failures didn't get anyone to quit them....

- Stern removing the high power cut off didn't make you quit. I mean, they DGAF about your safety, but it's cool I guess....(they've since added it back).

- Speaking of power, they saved 68 cents per machine by just putting the power button in the head, where it's convenient for literally nobody. Since the savings are so minimal, you know they did this just to mess with us. You didn't care.

- Stern switching to bottom of the barrel garbage cabinets and playfield wood, so lightweight you can bench press an entire Iron Maiden over your head and throw it like Ultimate Warrior. That didn't move the needle with NIB buyers....

- Stern insisting on using up every last drop from their printer ink cart before switching to a new one, causing really light ink being put down on so many of these playfields. We're over here yapping about clear coat, but the part under the clear coat? The whole thing you look at while playing? No biggie.

- Wood grain showing? Eh.

- Higher prices? Meh.

Nothing is going to stop you. You will continue your Stern subscription and you know it.

(But I really do hope many of you can in fact stop buying NIB until they step up the quality or lower the prices.)

#215 60 days ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

I just think it's kinda funny that THIS is suddenly the straw that broke the camel's back with regards to you people who blindly buy every single NIB like it was a friggin' subscription service. Sorry, but I don't believe any of you saying you quit Stern. Stern's been egging you on, trying to get you to quit them for years now. You're still here.....
- Stern switching to a non-repairable node-based architecture that is prone to [daisy-chained] failures didn't get anyone to quit them....
- Stern removing the high power cut off didn't make you quit. I mean, they DGAF about your safety, but it's cool I guess....(they've since added it back).
- Speaking of power, they saved 68 cents per machine by just putting the power button in the head, where it's convenient for literally nobody. Since the savings are so minimal, you know they did this just to mess with us. You didn't care.
- Stern switching to bottom of the barrel garbage cabinets and playfield wood, so lightweight you can bench press an entire Iron Maiden over your head and throw it like Ultimate Warrior. That didn't move the needle with NIB buyers....
- Stern insisting on using up every last drop from their printer ink cart before switching to a new one, causing really light ink being put down on so many of these playfields. We're over here yapping about clear coat, but the part under the clear coat? The whole thing you look at while playing? No biggie.
- Wood grain showing? Eh.
- Higher prices? Meh.
Nothing is going to stop you. You will continue your Stern subscription and you know it.
(But I really do hope many of you can in fact stop buying NIB until they step up the quality or lower the prices.)

They have also added wireforms, better LE adds since star wars, better cabinet brackets, playfield sliders, continued support for owners.

I want a “CGC build” Jurassic Park but this is what we have. Stern has made some positive changes...

#216 60 days ago

Crap.. just noticed my Luci VE has wrinkling and a chunk of art missing from behind the right lower sling post. Guess I'll be disassembling this and trying to flatten it, put some water thin Super Glue in there to lock it down and then touch it up. Build date March 8th, 2018. Playfield is stamped with a small "CS" and a larger "VW-N" and dated 2-28 if that means anything.
20190823_190955 (resized).jpg

#217 60 days ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

Crap.. just noticed my Luci VE....

Shhhhh. Don't say anything just sell it

#218 60 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Shhhhh. Don't say anything just sell it

Right! Nothing to see here fellas, lol. It's HUO!!
20190823_192514 (resized).jpg

#219 60 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

I just don't get how these games that are new and under warranty

People keep bringing up the warranty as if it has anything to do with this problem or its resolution.

Why?

A warranty is a specific thing, it's printed at the back of most of the Stern manuals I've read, and it has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. Any fix they offer is not part of their warranty.

JPsternwarranty (resized).jpg
#220 60 days ago

On the bright side, dimples no longer rate as any concern at all. Nice way to make us forget about those, hahahaha.

#221 60 days ago

As the original poster of a JP2 with the clear issues around the sling, I returned to the game today to take a closer look.

Yup, every post in some way had this issue, all up the PF. AGAIN, THIS IS THE SAME GAME AS I POSTED BEFORE. Just showing it’s more than the one pic I showed.
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#222 60 days ago
Quoted from tbutler6:

This blows, i am so excited to get my JPLE,
called my distro and requested my authorization at a later date before it leaves the dock...fix it please Stern.

Cancel. Save a huge headache.

20
#223 60 days ago

Seriously need to change the trend of calling it ‘pooling’, it didn’t flow anywhere. Wrinkling is more apt. Or bunching, even. Calling it pooling gives a misleading impression of what’s actually happening.

19
#224 60 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Seriously need to change the trend of calling it ‘pooling’, it didn’t flow anywhere. Wrinkling is more apt. Or bunching, even. Calling it pooling gives a misleading impression of what’s actually happening.

Wrinkled Willy & The Defective Playfield Factory

#226 60 days ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Cancel. Save a huge headache.

Yeah, I hate to do it but I am cancelling JP Premium until I get some more info.

#227 60 days ago

Just another 55 days to the "A night with Jersey Jack Pinball" event at Expo. If nothing else, someone has to get answers out of the crew.

#228 60 days ago

Looks like many stern titles and some jjp titles are affected by this weird issue. Sucks bc i just sold a few pins that had no issues to get wonka and jp2... gonna hold off for a nice huo or wait till the issue is figured out....

#229 60 days ago
Quoted from aingide:

Does the washer make it worse??

On soft hardcoat Yes... you're just going to squish more product out.

-6
#230 60 days ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

I just think it's kinda funny that THIS is suddenly the straw that broke the camel's back with regards to you people who blindly buy every single NIB like it was a friggin' subscription service. Sorry, but I don't believe any of you saying you quit Stern. Stern's been egging you on, trying to get you to quit them for years now. You're still here.....
- Stern switching to a non-repairable node-based architecture that is prone to [daisy-chained] failures didn't get anyone to quit them....
- Stern removing the high power cut off didn't make you quit. I mean, they DGAF about your safety, but it's cool I guess....(they've since added it back).
- Speaking of power, they saved 68 cents per machine by just putting the power button in the head, where it's convenient for literally nobody. Since the savings are so minimal, you know they did this just to mess with us. You didn't care.
- Stern switching to bottom of the barrel garbage cabinets and playfield wood, so lightweight you can bench press an entire Iron Maiden over your head and throw it like Ultimate Warrior. That didn't move the needle with NIB buyers....
- Stern insisting on using up every last drop from their printer ink cart before switching to a new one, causing really light ink being put down on so many of these playfields. We're over here yapping about clear coat, but the part under the clear coat? The whole thing you look at while playing? No biggie.
- Wood grain showing? Eh.
- Higher prices? Meh.
Nothing is going to stop you. You will continue your Stern subscription and you know it.
(But I really do hope many of you can in fact stop buying NIB until they step up the quality or lower the prices.)

- Backboxes secured with loose bolts. Rather than a simple decent coffin lock. Cheap, and going backwards 3 decades.

- New cheap flimsy lockdown design. Much less security especially if glass gets broken. Two little wood screws pull out of cabinet. All this Rather than a proper proven lockdown reciever.

-1
#231 60 days ago

Did I hear somewhere ( might have been Head2Head PP ? ) that JP2 was actually schedueld for realease later in the timeline, and was brought forward to an earlier release?

If so, this could be another possible explaination. Same may explain the issue for the few JJP common factors/conditions. Rushing stuff out the door that is not actually ready for it...

If the playfield product is bad maybe the p/f supplier pays ? ... if it is installed prematurely that would surely fall onto the game manufacturer?

Even if clear is the baked type there is still cooling and a minimum stand time required after that for curing to be considered "complete" . The reaction continues.

#232 60 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Seriously need to change the trend of calling it ‘pooling’, it didn’t flow anywhere. Wrinkling is more apt. Or bunching, even. Calling it pooling gives a misleading impression of what’s actually happening.

Partly agree, it tears too. But if not fully cured it Will "squish" and move under pressure as well. Maybe "rippling" is better? ... given that it rips, and distorts as well. That clear, clearly is not Hard!

See what I did there!

14
#233 60 days ago

There is no way I’m letting this playfield thing stop my pinball fun. I’m unboxing a JP2 tomorrow.

#234 60 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

There is no way I’m letting this playfield thing stop my pinball fun. I’m unboxing a JP2 tomorrow.

Yeah, good move.

#235 60 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

There is no way I’m letting this playfield thing stop my pinball fun. I’m unboxing a JP2 tomorrow.

Please take pics of star posts and any playfield oddities.

#236 59 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

There is no way I’m letting this playfield thing stop my pinball fun. I’m unboxing a JP2 tomorrow.

Same here, keeping my Premium on order. Fortunately the game still plays with or without a little ripple, chipping is a different story. Luckily I haven't had any issues with any of my NIB's, except for Wonka. JJPs customer service left a little to be desired so I sold it for Oktoberfest and that thing doesn't have 1 dimple. I'll still buy NIB from Stern, CGC, American and Spooky with confidence.

#237 59 days ago

Stern is replacing at least one PF already and said this is not normal. Saw it in the JP2 club thread.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jurassic-park-stern-2019-owners-club-welcome-to-jurassic-park/page/10#post-5165129

#238 59 days ago

I was looking forward to one or two NIB games in the next year (Elvira, Toy Story, maybe Munsters).

Now I’m not going to consider any until Cleargate gets figured out.

#239 59 days ago

Here's my NIB IMDN Premium that I bought a couple months ago. Several posts have this issue on mine...

20190823_161153 (resized).jpg20190823_161204 (resized).jpg20190823_161214 (resized).jpg20190823_161337 (resized).jpg
#240 59 days ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

I just think it's kinda funny that THIS is suddenly the straw that broke the camel's back with regards to you people who blindly buy every single NIB like it was a friggin' subscription service. Sorry, but I don't believe any of you saying you quit Stern. Stern's been egging you on, trying to get you to quit them for years now. You're still here.....
- Stern switching to a non-repairable node-based architecture that is prone to [daisy-chained] failures didn't get anyone to quit them....
- Stern removing the high power cut off didn't make you quit. I mean, they DGAF about your safety, but it's cool I guess....(they've since added it back).
- Speaking of power, they saved 68 cents per machine by just putting the power button in the head, where it's convenient for literally nobody. Since the savings are so minimal, you know they did this just to mess with us. You didn't care.
- Stern switching to bottom of the barrel garbage cabinets and playfield wood, so lightweight you can bench press an entire Iron Maiden over your head and throw it like Ultimate Warrior. That didn't move the needle with NIB buyers....
- Stern insisting on using up every last drop from their printer ink cart before switching to a new one, causing really light ink being put down on so many of these playfields. We're over here yapping about clear coat, but the part under the clear coat? The whole thing you look at while playing? No biggie.
- Wood grain showing? Eh.
- Higher prices? Meh.
Nothing is going to stop you. You will continue your Stern subscription and you know it.
(But I really do hope many of you can in fact stop buying NIB until they step up the quality or lower the prices.)

Your not wrong...

#241 59 days ago
Quoted from PokerJake:

Same here, keeping my Premium on order. Fortunately the game still plays with or without a little ripple, chipping is a different story. Luckily I haven't had any issues with any of my NIB's, except for Wonka. JJPs customer service left a little to be desired so I sold it for Oktoberfest and that thing doesn't have 1 dimple. I'll still buy NIB from Stern, CGC, American and Spooky with confidence.

The posts looked fine on this Oktoberfest, but as many dimples as all the rest.

IMG_20190821_212040 (resized).jpg
#242 59 days ago

Just to make sure I understand,
Dimples good
Ripples bad?

#243 59 days ago

If this is a case of the new clears curing more slowly, is there any way to make them cure fully once they are set up in your home?

Maybe leave the game on 24x7 to keep the internal temperature up? Open the game and blow a fan indirectly over it? Put it out in a hot garage in Florida? Blow a space heater under the game?

#244 59 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

If this is a case of the new clears curing more slowly, is there any way to make them cure fully once they are set up in your home?
Maybe leave the game on 24x7 to keep the internal temperature up? Open the game and blow a fan indirectly over it? Put it out in a hot garage in Florida? Blow a space heater under the game?

Maybe remove glass, leave out in the sun for a couple hours a day for a few days.

UV cure?

#245 59 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

If this is a case of the new clears curing more slowly, is there any way to make them cure fully once they are set up in your home?
Maybe leave the game on 24x7 to keep the internal temperature up? Open the game and blow a fan indirectly over it? Put it out in a hot garage in Florida? Blow a space heater under the game?

Quoted from pinballinreno:

Maybe remove glass, leave out in the sun for a couple hours a day for a few days.
UV cure?

Get out your grow lamps and go to town!

Seriously though, it’s probably well past too late for the end consumer to fix this. Damage is already done before it gets in your hands.

#246 59 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

If this is a case of the new clears curing more slowly, is there any way to make them cure fully once they are set up in your home?
Maybe leave the game on 24x7 to keep the internal temperature up? Open the game and blow a fan indirectly over it? Put it out in a hot garage in Florida? Blow a space heater under the game?

Wonder if we can just get the upper fan and space heater mods installed directly from the factory?

Wow, the NIB experience has certainly changed from the last one I bought a couple of years ago. Fun times.

#247 59 days ago
Quoted from Oaken:

Damage is already done before it gets in your hands.

Yes and no. If there is some way to complete the curing process quickly and completely, maybe the damage will be not get worse. People have reported that the clear seems to be still soft.

#248 59 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

Yes and no. If there is some way to complete the curing process quickly and completely, maybe the damage will be not get worse. People have reported that the clear seems to be still soft.

My thinking is that installation over the under cured soft clear is leading to the movement of the clear “puddles”. If this is the case, damage already done. If it’s combined with a screening adhesion issue...nothing you can do about that either.

#249 59 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

Yes and no. If there is some way to complete the curing process quickly and completely, maybe the damage will be not get worse. People have reported that the clear seems to be still soft.

If the mix/process is not correct the clear will never cure to a hard surface. I doubt this is a curing issue.

10
#250 59 days ago

I was considering either a Wonka or JP premium but don't want to deal with playfield headaches for $6k - $10k. Picked up a nice Mata Hari today with a CPR playfield instead, will use the difference to go on a vacation. Get your act together Stern and JJP.

No chipping or pooling! Lol
20190824_221150 (resized).jpg

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