(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

84 days ago



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  • Latest reply 26 minutes ago by CLEllison
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There are 3125 posts in this topic. You are on page 46 of 63.
#2251 40 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

I know this isn't a paint related issue, but with regard to playfield quality...Along with peeled paint and missing parts that were never installed on the playfield, I just discovered what appears to be the wrong colored insert installed on my LE playfield. All RESCUE targets are supposed to be red/orange. Somehow, a clear one got into my playfield. Do they make orange bulbs?[quoted image]

Until they replace your playfield these do work great...

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1170-pin-monk/by-category/345-playfield-other

Ping him

#2252 40 days ago

So who's in for a premium on the newly redecorated Star Wars?

#2253 40 days ago

Thanks... I'll look into it.

#2254 40 days ago

Stern’s business plan is a mystery wrapped in a riddle covered in soft clearcoat...working though so what do I know?

#2255 39 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

I know this isn't a paint related issue, but with regard to playfield quality...Along with peeled paint and missing parts that were never installed on the playfield, I just discovered what appears to be the wrong colored insert installed on my LE playfield. All RESCUE targets are supposed to be red/orange. Somehow, a clear one got into my playfield. Do they make orange bulbs?[quoted image]

I just looked at Sterns promo shots of the game plus all the flyers and every rescue insert is orange.

Great spot Hawk, with eyes like yours maybe you should be on Sterns QC team

#2256 39 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Stern’s business plan is a mystery wrapped in a riddle covered in soft clearcoat...working though so what do I know?

Reminds me of apple cult-followers.
Aslong as there is a continous stream of new shiny things, quality and all other aspects are completely ignored, and anybody with even minor concerns are treated, as if them and their family had been attacked.

#2257 39 days ago

Hey Hawk, I posted in the other Prem/Le club thread, but am reposting it here since this is the issue thread... There's a user on pg 20 https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/welcome-to-the-jurassic-park-le-club/page/20#post-5235583

of the club thread, The Gunnett, with the exact same white rescue color insert in the same location as yours... Just FYI so you him and anyone else (or maybe Stern reading this) with the issue can let Stern know there is another QC issue with the insert color it seems
Screenshot_20191005-013525_Chrome (resized).jpg

#2258 39 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Issue is when there is artwork, and clear before the wood. The artwork is not adhering to the wood. The clear is adhering to the artwork. When you tighten the posts down it is making the artwork bunch up taking the clear with it.

Do we even know that a layer of clear isn't put down first, then art, then more clear? Seems like art soaking into the wood might change the art where clear soaking in would be less likely to change it.

#2259 39 days ago

just found this thread and checked all my new pins and those of an friend.
all of the first set were good with no bubbles, cracking, or chips
original 2010 IM
avengers
original ACDC
MBr
deadpool

These last 2 were a disappointment:
maiden - bubbles but no chips
stern Jur park - lots of chipping almost all the way around several posts

I was looking to buy one of these new JPs as the game is a lot of fun and has a player's ruleset but now all is on hold

#2260 39 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

So cars, hockeysticks, industrial floorings etc are not having The same environmental restrictions that pinball has.
Have to call Bull on that one.
Incompetence is the Word. Environmental is just a really bad excuse.

Lots of wooden houses are painted - aka all of them. The paint and clear are combined in one part and a painted house endures brutal sun, rain and wind events. It is expected to perform and hold up for x years. Home use pinball would be a lot less damaging and should fall way short of the point it needs to be replaced.

#2261 39 days ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Lots of wooden houses are painted - aka all of them.

No shit.

Paint sticks a lot better to the wood than the metal around my house.

#2262 39 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

No shit.
Paint sticks a lot better to the wood than the metal around my house.

Maybe Stern/JJP should switch over to Glidden High Endurance paint + primer.

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#2263 39 days ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Maybe Stern/JJP should switch over to Glidden High Endurance paint + primer.

Or use what they use at Disneyland. 80 million+ slobbering kids a year don't even faze that stuff.

#2264 39 days ago

I was at Disneyland once not too long ago when a guy was painting a railing and that was no water based stuff. The fumes were potent whatever it was.

#2265 39 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

No shit.
Paint sticks a lot better to the wood than the metal around my house.

Until you start hurling ball bearings at it I suspect.

#2266 39 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Until you start hurling ball bearings at it I suspect.

I'll give it a try if it will help defend your faith. Big chunks of hail don't seem to do it.

And when was the last time a steel ball struck the playfield that close to the posts where most of the playfield problems lie now?

#2267 39 days ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Do we even know that a layer of clear isn't put down first, then art, then more clear? Seems like art soaking into the wood might change the art where clear soaking in would be less likely to change it.

I do not think a layer of clear is sprayed first.. check out the photos of all the chipped out pieces.

#2268 39 days ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Do we even know that a layer of clear isn't put down first, then art, then more clear? Seems like art soaking into the wood might change the art where clear soaking in would be less likely to change it.

Yes, a clear seal coat is applied to the playfield on all sides prior to any printing. That is the problem with all these playfields where the art is coming up. The digitally applied ink is adhering to the seal coat, but the seal coat is not bonding well to the wood (understatement). I know in the past, a clear polyester layer was added to the wood first, and then lightly sanded to remove any pimples and make the seal coat layer smooth. This is an inter-adhesion problem with between the wood board and the seal coat. The soft top layer clear coat is a separate issue.

#2269 39 days ago
Quoted from WillSmuz8999:

Yes, a clear seal coat is applied to the playfield on all sides prior to any printing. That is the problem with all these playfields where the art is coming up. The digitally applied ink is adhering to the seal coat, but the seal coat is not bonding well to the wood (understatement). I know in the past, a clear polyester layer was added to the wood first, and then lightly sanded to remove any pimples and make the seal coat layer smooth. This is an inter-adhesion problem with between the wood board and the seal coat. The soft top layer clear coat is a separate issue.

This makes sense, have wondered why the underside of these new playfields were clear coated

#2270 39 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

I do not think a layer of clear is sprayed first.. check out the photos of all the chipped out pieces.

It is normal in other fields to apply a thinned laquer first. It acts as a sanding sealer and fills the pores. This makes the surface a lot stronger and far less prone to damage.

14
#2271 39 days ago

It is really sad that Stern leaves us all guessing about playfields. I use others as guinea pigs to see if a game with have pooling and chipping issues.

Want a JP, but Stern avoidance makes me nervous. They know it is an issue. They put washers under the posts on purpose, cause they know there is an issue.

It is hard for me to buy a pin when U have little faith in the transparency of the company..

At least Jersey Jack stated and acknowledged the issue. Stern thinks avoidance is the best. Sad cause I think their games are really interesting right now, but I can't blow my hard earned cash on a gamble, I want a quality product.

#2272 39 days ago
Quoted from Halfwasted:

It is really sad that Stern leaves us all guessing about playfields. I use others as guinea pigs to see if a game with have pooling and chipping issues.
Want a JP, but Stern avoidance makes me nervous. They know it is an issue. They put washers under the posts on purpose, cause they know there is an issue.
It is hard for me to buy a pin when U have little faith in the transparency of the company..
At least Jersey Jack stated and acknowledged the issue. Stern thinks avoidance is the best. Sad cause I think their games are really interesting right now, but I can't blow my hard earned cash on a gamble, I want a quality product.

Buy HUO that is at least 2 years old.

#2273 39 days ago

I’ve been gone too long from this thread. Paint my basement rec room tomorrow.

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12
#2274 39 days ago
Quoted from Halfwasted:

Want a JP, but Stern avoidance makes me nervous.

Funny, avoiding Stern doesn't make me nervous at all.

In fact avoiding all of them gives me total peace of mind and nothing to worry about.

#2275 39 days ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I’ve been gone too long from this thread. Paint my basement rec room tomorrow.[quoted image]

Maybe I’ll run right out and buy the new stern Star Wars comic art package premium when I am done painting.

Reeeeeeeeeeee!

#2276 39 days ago
Quoted from Halfwasted:

It is really sad that Stern leaves us all guessing about playfields. I use others as guinea pigs to see if a game with have pooling and chipping issues.

Williams, Bally, Gottleib never told you anything about their playfields either. It's the same as always. There were problems with diamondplate back then too.

#2277 39 days ago
Quoted from Beaverz:

Williams, Bally, Gottleib never told you anything about their playfields either. It's the same as always. There were problems with diamondplate back then too.

What was home collector vs operator back then? Percentage. Probably flip flopped now.

#2278 38 days ago
Quoted from Beaverz:

...There were problems with diamondplate back then too.

Yep:

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#2279 38 days ago

Just checked my Beatles Platinum and all clear. Phew!!

#2280 38 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

It is normal in other fields to apply a thinned laquer first. It acts as a sanding sealer and fills the pores. This makes the surface a lot stronger and far less prone to damage.

I understand that. I am not sure if a primer or sealer is sprayed on the playfield before the artwork.

#2281 38 days ago
Quoted from Riffbear:

Just checked my Beatles Platinum and all clear. Phew!!

Beatles seem to be the worst of all IME. If it has not blistered yet then just wait a few hundred more plays. You may be a lucky one but you are not out of the words yet.

#2282 38 days ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Yep:[quoted image]

Yes after 50.000 plays

#2283 38 days ago
Quoted from Riffbear:

Just checked my Beatles Platinum and all clear.

Quoted from Whysnow:

You are not out of the words yet.

It sounds like he wants you to post more here on Pinside.

#2284 38 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

I understand that. I am not sure if a primer or sealer is sprayed on the playfield before the artwork.

I am 100% sure. A sealer coat is always applied to the playfield before printing. The issue is what seal coat is being used. It is a critical part of the process. The chemistry and application, needs to be correct and compatible with wood and digital inks.

#2285 38 days ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

Yes after 50.000 plays

No disagreement there!

-7
#2286 38 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

What was home collector vs operator back then? Percentage. Probably flip flopped now.

That's not relevant.

#2287 38 days ago
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:

2 or 3 years ago I called Stern about a rivet in the lock down bar breaking and the handle was just hanging. They told me to email a picture. The next afternoon they were calling me on the phone apologizing and offering to not only send the part but to also pay someone to install it.
Has anyone had decent luck with Stern like this? Do they still tend to other issues and only drag their feet with the clear coat issues or do drag their feet with all problems now?

the clear coat issue is massive though. It's seems its not as new an issue as we think with games well over a year old suffering from this problem. So replacing maybe more than 50% of play fields made in the last year? Doesn't feel likely.

I have huge respect for Stern and they have always looked after me, although I do sigh at some of their cost cutting measures, but I think Stern are more likely to avoid dealing with this issue as a populated play field replacement. Stern replaced my GB playfield.

#2288 38 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

the clear coat issue is massive though.

It's important on games that have a problem but until someone gathers the data and shares it we don't know how widespread the issues are.

I think the closest guess you could make would be pick games that had known production runs like the LE versions. Even then you probably couldn't inspect more than 10% of them. Put the data in a spreadsheet and see if any trends emerge.

#2289 38 days ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I’ve been gone too long from this thread. Paint my basement rec room tomorrow.[quoted image]

Looks like you can fit a lot of pins in there! When’s the grand opening, you’re not too far.

#2290 38 days ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Yep:[quoted image]

That is chipping from insert lift. Not even comparable.

#2291 38 days ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

It's important on games that have a problem but until someone gathers the data and shares it we don't know how widespread the issues are.
I think the closest guess you could make would be pick games that had known production runs like the LE versions. Even then you probably couldn't inspect more than 10% of them. Put the data in a spreadsheet and see if any trends emerge.

Of the 4 I own with these new playfields
Im at 50% soon to be 75%
IMDN LE & Munsters LE have Pooling and BK3 is o.k though BK3 looks to be on it's way
SW pro o.k

#2292 38 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

That is chipping from insert lift. Not even comparable.

It was intended as sarcasm.

I guess I should have added this guy!:

#2293 38 days ago
Quoted from Beaverz:

That's not relevant.

Seems relevant in that an operator heavy client base that buys games in large quantities and writes them off would be vastly different than a bunch of home collectors with smaller quantities of games. More people to answer to and pickier people and that’s your growth market so you better make them happy.

So, in short, relevant

#2294 38 days ago
Quoted from WillSmuz8999:

I am 100% sure. A sealer coat is always applied to the playfield before printing. The issue is what seal coat is being used. It is a critical part of the process. The chemistry and application, needs to be correct and compatible with wood and digital inks.

Appreciate the knowledge. What if UV cured inks are being used?

#2295 38 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

What was home collector vs operator back then? Percentage. Probably flip flopped now.

The home collectors that I knew in the 80s and 90s were very few, but had mostly cheaper, older EMS.

Mostly ones that still had very nice playfields. And probably still do.

#2296 38 days ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

It's important on games that have a problem but until someone gathers the data and shares it we don't know how widespread the issues are.
I think the closest guess you could make would be pick games that had known production runs like the LE versions. Even then you probably couldn't inspect more than 10% of them. Put the data in a spreadsheet and see if any trends emerge.

in my view this issue is hugely widespread. 4 continents are reporting it; nearly every JP2 I've seen has the problem.

agree on getting the data but not expecting to see that...

-13
#2297 38 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Seems relevant in that an operator heavy client base that buys games in large quantities and writes them off would be vastly different than a bunch of home collectors with smaller quantities of games. More people to answer to and pickier people and that’s your growth market so you better make them happy.
So, in short, relevant

Not Stern is making the same commercial games as before. The fact you choose to buy then and put them in your house does not change that. If I buy a shipping container to put in my back yard I don't expect it to be made differently than one that's going to be rushed around. If be buying something that's not made for my market segment and if be expecting the commerical level. Stern can name them le, sle, etc it's still the same stuff.

#2298 38 days ago

Is it possible Stern are letting the clock run down?
Maybe keep quiet in the hope warranties expire, damage limitation.
Perhaps address the situation later down the line.
For example:-
- Customer who reported new pin with bad case of chipping soon after delivery - may have best chance of resolution by getting PF replaced
- Customer reports pooling but no chipping - no action taken by Stern. If pin then chips a year or two later - Stern put this down to wear and tear with no further action.
Just a thought

-2
#2299 38 days ago

I really like Stern pinball machines but playfields with pooling only can be stopped if you ad a anti pooling 0,75 mm playfield protector that covers the playfield and all post in the shooting area.
It sucks but that is the only solution i think.

I say it again Stern can't replace ALL playfield they will go out off business.
Some will get a new playfield.
Maybe they make a protector for a few models i don't know what else they can do.
Or stay silence and tackle the problem for the future.

#2300 38 days ago

So this begs the questions--what is Stern's thoughts on the matter and if they're keeping mum (which I believe they are) then WHY in blue hell are people STILL buying a Stern product ?!?

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