(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

3 months ago



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There are 3246 posts in this topic. You are on page 43 of 65.
#2101 73 days ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

It would be interesting to see what these hardtops look like after 20k plays on them. The good thing is you could do a top side tear down, swap in a new one and your machine looks like new again.

I would like to hear what some high level tournament players say about how hardtops play when they are new as well as after they have a couple thousand plays on them.

#2102 73 days ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Pay me travel money. I'll dress up and entertain the kids. They'll have a new vocabulary when I'm done with them too.

But do they want a 'drinking' Dino showing them beer was consumed millions of years ago?

dino (resized).jpg
#2103 73 days ago

Quick Update:

Stern has been fast to respond to my emails. They said they sent my pictures to quality control and offered to send me a bottle of clear touch-up to mitigate the paint peeling issue.

13
#2104 73 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Quick Update:
Stern has been fast to respond to my emails. They said they sent my pictures to quality control and offered to send me a bottle of clear touch-up to mitigate the paint peeling issue.

I hope you laughed in their face with that response. I'd be shooting for a popluated playfield and nothing less.

#2105 73 days ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Pay me travel money. I'll dress up and entertain the kids. They'll have a new vocabulary when I'm done with them too.

Visions of Bryan in Bad Santa....

#2106 73 days ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Pay me travel money. I'll dress up and entertain the kids. They'll have a new vocabulary when I'm done with them too.

He knew dinosaurs!

#2107 73 days ago
Quoted from Oaken:

I’ve mentioned it before, but switching back to screen printing is probably not even possible at this point.
My impressions:
1) That tech is aging fast so when a screening machine breaks down (and it will) it’s hard to find parts.
2) Those that know how to do it are nearing retirement. Hard to find replacement technicians to run the presses since it really isn’t taught or pursued much any more.
3) throughput issues
So sure the new way is likely much cheaper, but they probably felt they needed to make the switch anyway given obsolescence of the old ways.
At least in my experience, my company pushed hard to replace working tech as soon as the vendor stopped supporting the tech. Freaked out the business people to have an unknown cost/liability just hanging out there.

Ehh... screen printing is alive and well in other industries. The beauty is there is no tech to support! The only thing to go “eol” is your screen material... and that is not happening now. It’s literally squeegees on a pivot arm.

And for volume... the industry makes far less playfield these days then in the past... so this isn’t a scale constraint.

Digital printing is desirable because it’s more efficient. Less labor, less time, less space, and less waste. Nothing to do with obsolescence.

#2108 73 days ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

He knew dinosaurs!

capt_caveman_teen_angels (resized).jpg
#2109 73 days ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

It would be interesting to see what these hardtops look like after 20k plays on them. The good thing is you could do a top side tear down, swap in a new one and your machine looks like new again.

Could sell them as affordable wall art too; since they'd be cheaper to make than a real wood PF.

18
#2110 73 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Quick Update:
Stern has been fast to respond to my emails. They said they sent my pictures to quality control and offered to send me a bottle of clear touch-up to mitigate the paint peeling issue.

Seriously?

I want Stern to succeed but this is just crazy.

#2111 73 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Quick Update:
Stern has been fast to respond to my emails. They said they sent my pictures to quality control and offered to send me a bottle of clear touch-up to mitigate the paint peeling issue.

Hopefully, this is a temp solution until your populated and corrected PF arrives? My friend has a JP Pro with that pooling issue and has been advised by his distributor that he will get a new populated PF shipped to him to swap out. His has no tearing like yours, that I saw.

#2112 73 days ago
Quoted from treborlicec:

Hopefully, this is a temp solution until your populated and corrected PF arrives? My friend has a JP Pro with that pooling issue and has been advised by his distributor that he will get a new populated PF shipped to him to swap out. His has no tearing like yours, that I saw.

I believe they are sincere in wanting to provide a good resolution. I suspect my Stern contact is proactively trying to do what he can while we wait to hear back from QC and I do appreciate the gesture. Neither Stern (nor I!) have made any final determinations on an appropriate resolution.

#2113 73 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Quick Update:
Stern has been fast to respond to my emails. They said they sent my pictures to quality control and offered to send me a bottle of clear touch-up to mitigate the paint peeling issue.

LOL, this is a joke right?

#2114 73 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Ehh... screen printing is alive and well in other industries. The beauty is there is no tech to support! The only thing to go “eol” is your screen material... and that is not happening now. It’s literally squeegees on a pivot arm.
And for volume... the industry makes far less playfield these days then in the past... so this isn’t a scale constraint.
Digital printing is desirable because it’s more efficient. Less labor, less time, less space, and less waste. Nothing to do with obsolescence.

Here’s to us both hoping I am 100% wrong!

#2115 73 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Quick Update:
Stern has been fast to respond to my emails. They said they sent my pictures to quality control and offered to send me a bottle of clear touch-up to mitigate the paint peeling issue.

That’s what they did for me years ago, a jar of clearcoat. This is ok if it is not a NIB game. But NIB - wtf!

#2116 73 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

That’s what they did for me years ago, a jar of clearcoat. This is ok if it is not a NIB game. But NIB - wtf!

It isn't their official/final resolution. Just a suggestion to mitigate the damage so I can play it again. We are still waiting to hear back from QC.

23
#2117 73 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

LOL, this is a joke right?

I would find a jar of lube more appropriate.

#2118 73 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

What say you, Pinsiders? Blasphemy? Or better tech?

If it cuts the retail price of new games by a couple grand, why not?

#2119 73 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

New games ought to be made with hardtops.

So is this how deeproot intends to reduce cost and yet provide a ten year warranty on playfields?

#2120 73 days ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

So is this how deeproot intends to reduce cost and yet provide a ten year warranty on playfields?

Most likely

#2121 73 days ago

Looks like this is the only way I will be playing new Stern Pinballs soon.

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#2122 73 days ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

Looks like this is the only way I will be playing new Stern Pinballs soon.

Have those virtual games become real enough to include playfield cratering, pooling, and peeling yet?

#2123 73 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

Have those virtual games become real enough to include playfield cratering, pooling, and peeling yet?

There will be an update soon so it can in the options, Would you like cratering, pooling or peeling? NIB or in 2 month, 6 months or 1 year? Please select.

#2124 73 days ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

There will be an update soon so it can in the options, Would you like cratering, pooling or peeling? NIB or in 2 month, 6 months or 1 year? Please select.

I want an option where I can see cabinet corners splitting too.

#2125 73 days ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

There will be an update soon so it can in the options, Would you like cratering, pooling or peeling? NIB or in 2 month, 6 months or 1 year? Please select.

Quoted from o-din:

I want an option where I can see cabinet corners splitting too.

Lol. I’m not downloading until it’s got ghosting and node board failure.

#2126 73 days ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

So is this how deeproot intends to reduce cost and yet provide a ten year warranty on playfields?

Yes.

Thunderbirds, for all its mediocrity, is actually a really well built game (for the most part). It has a hardtop pf and looks fantastic. Seems to play ok.

Personally I’m not a fan of hardtop vs real wood but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the next step for all manufacturers.

#2127 73 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I want Stern to succeed but this is just crazy.

My feeling on them about 0:11 in:

#2128 72 days ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

He knew dinosaurs!

He IS a dinosaur.

#2129 72 days ago

Before Stern swapped out my Ghostbusters PF they sent me a bottle of clear. That won't be the final resolution for those with a truly bad playfield. The frenzy on here, while understandable to a certain extent, is also quite over the top. Give Stern a chance to make it right. Can't speak for JJP as I have not been a customer, but I have not seen an example of a populated playfield replacement from them.

#2130 72 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Before Stern swapped out my Ghostbusters PF they sent me a bottle of clear. That won't be the final resolution for those with a truly bad playfield. The frenzy on here, while understandable to a certain extent, is also quite over the top. Give Stern a chance to make it right. Can't speak for JJP as I have not been a customer, but I have not seen an example of a populated playfield replacement from them.

Thanks for sharing that experience. It it's helpful to know that.

#2131 72 days ago

I posted this in the JP2 thread, but thought it might help some people here:

Whenever I buy a new Stern that has a metal apron, first thing I do is take the apron out and put a layer of mylar under it. When I put it back in, I try not to over tighten. Recently I got a 3D printer and decided to go the extra mile to protect my BKLE by making small u-channels to snap on the bottom of the apron where it meets the playfield. That was before all this clear coat stuff came up, so I'm glad I did. If you want the file to print yourself shoot me a PM. Otherwise I suppose I could make a run or two if there is demand...

Apron trim (resized).pngcabfdff4cc8b8971b7aefcae12245e63930f12a8 (resized).jpg
#2132 72 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

I posted this in the JP2 thread, but thought it might help some people here:
Whenever I buy a new Stern that has a metal apron, first thing I do is take the apron out and put a layer of mylar under it. When I put it back in, I try not to over tighten. Recently I got a 3D printer and decided to go the extra mile to protect my BKLE by making small u-channels to snap on the bottom of the apron where it meets the playfield. That was before all this clear coat stuff came up, so I'm glad I did. If you want the file to print yourself shoot me a PM. Otherwise I suppose I could make a run or two if there is demand...[quoted image][quoted image]

That’s a really good idea.

#2133 72 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

I posted this in the JP2 thread, but thought it might help some people here:
Whenever I buy a new Stern that has a metal apron, first thing I do is take the apron out and put a layer of mylar under it. When I put it back in, I try not to over tighten. Recently I got a 3D printer and decided to go the extra mile to protect my BKLE by making small u-channels to snap on the bottom of the apron where it meets the playfield. That was before all this clear coat stuff came up, so I'm glad I did. If you want the file to print yourself shoot me a PM. Otherwise I suppose I could make a run or two if there is demand...[quoted image][quoted image]

That's just going to make the apron effectively tighter and dig harder over a larger area

#2134 72 days ago
Quoted from Faustria:

That's just going to make the apron effectively tighter and dig harder over a larger area

You tighten it from below with a nut. You can make it as tight or loose as you want. Spreading the force over a larger, flatter area will make it dig in less. Win win.

#2135 72 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

You tighten it from below with a nut. You can make it as tight or loose as you want. Spreading the force over a larger, flatter area will make it dig in less. Win win.

I'd be tempted to add a small washer to the screw (top side, not the bottom of the PF), allowing the entire edge to be raised slightly. Of course, the washer itself could create the same problem around the hole, so a person would have to be somewhat creative to minimize that issue. A bushing with a small lip in the mounting hole might do the trick. That would be interesting to 3D print. Maybe have a beveled edge on the 3D print to make the hole support the apron, not the PF surface.

#2136 72 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Before Stern swapped out my Ghostbusters PF they sent me a bottle of clear. That won't be the final resolution for those with a truly bad playfield. The frenzy on here, while understandable to a certain extent, is also quite over the top. Give Stern a chance to make it right. Can't speak for JJP as I have not been a customer, but I have not seen an example of a populated playfield replacement from them.

Yeah, thankfully they made an announcement ackowledging the PF problems, helping give consumers and customers the assurance they need that the problem has been identified, that they understand it's a problem to address, and that they're hard at work fixing it to regain the community's confidence.

And they did it without a single word:

pasted_image (resized).png

Wonder if they can hire Cliffy to start making apron-long cliffies for artwork that tears off the PF. I'm sure they'll make an announcement ANY second......!

#2137 72 days ago
Quoted from NPO:

Yeah, thankfully they made an announcement ackowledging the PF problems, helping give consumers and customers the assurance they need that the problem has been identified, that they understand it's a problem to address, and that they're hard at work fixing it to regain the community's confidence.
And they did it without a single word:
[quoted image]
Wonder if they can hire Cliffy to start making apron-long cliffies for artwork that tears off the PF. I'm sure they'll make an announcement ANY second......!

Stern has replaced Ghostbusters, Spider-Man Vault, Star Wars, Metalica, Iron Maiden, Beatles (just that I personally know of) games with populated playfields. Zero announcements. These are dealt with on a case by case individual basis.

#2138 72 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Stern has replaced Ghostbusters, Spider-Man Vault, Star Wars, Metalica, Iron Maiden, Beatles (just that I personally know of) games with populated playfields.

You'd think they would have learned by now.

#2139 72 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Stern has replaced Ghostbusters, Spider-Man Vault, Star Wars, Metalica, Iron Maiden, Beatles (just that I personally know of) games with populated playfields. Zero announcements. These are dealt with on a case by case individual basis.

I wonder what qualifies for a replacement.

#2140 72 days ago
Quoted from bellbrand:

I wonder what qualifies for a replacement.

Persistence.

#2141 72 days ago
Quoted from bellbrand:

I wonder what qualifies for a replacement

That’s why they never make an announcement about “issues”. It would lock them in to making everyone whole and not just the squeaky wheels.

I assume they also hope people will just think it’s not worth the trouble and give up.

#2142 72 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

That’s why they never make an announcement about “issues”. It would lock them in to making everyone whole and not just the squeaky wheels.
I assume they also hope people will just think it’s not worth the trouble and give up.

I "fought" with Stern for over a year before they finally sent me a replacement playfield for my GBLE. To this day, there hasn't been a single ball played on it.

#2143 72 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Before Stern swapped out my Ghostbusters PF they sent me a bottle of clear. That won't be the final resolution for those with a truly bad playfield. The frenzy on here, while understandable to a certain extent, is also quite over the top. Give Stern a chance to make it right. Can't speak for JJP as I have not been a customer, but I have not seen an example of a populated playfield replacement from them.

Obviously I know Stern do send out populated pf’s for severe cases, but why send out a bottle of clear if your intention is to replace the Playfield?

It’s a process of giving the bear minimum the customer will accept.

#2144 72 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Before Stern swapped out my Ghostbusters PF they sent me a bottle of clear. That won't be the final resolution for those with a truly bad playfield. The frenzy on here, while understandable to a certain extent, is also quite over the top. Give Stern a chance to make it right. Can't speak for JJP as I have not been a customer, but I have not seen an example of a populated playfield replacement from them.

A bottle of clear, really.
That would've been the end of any Stern product for me going forward.

#2145 72 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Before Stern swapped out my Ghostbusters PF they sent me a bottle of clear. That won't be the final resolution for those with a truly bad playfield. The frenzy on here, while understandable to a certain extent, is also quite over the top. Give Stern a chance to make it right. Can't speak for JJP as I have not been a customer, but I have not seen an example of a populated playfield replacement from them.

Over the top is yet to come...

#2146 71 days ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

Over the top is yet to come...

stallone (resized).jpg

#2147 71 days ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I "fought" with Stern for over a year before they finally sent me a replacement playfield for my GBLE. To this day, there hasn't been a single ball played on it.

I feel like I've read you say that dozens of times in recent months. You should really just play the game or sell it. What good is it just sitting there?

#2148 71 days ago
Quoted from treborlicec:

Hopefully, this is a temp solution until your populated and corrected PF arrives? My friend has a JP Pro with that pooling issue and has been advised by his distributor that he will get a new populated PF shipped to him to swap out. His has no tearing like yours, that I saw.

At this point, if he didn't post that he gets some touch-up clearcoat AND a new PF is on the way, it should be assumed this is Sterns best offer, at this time.

#2149 71 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

I feel like I've read you say that dozens of times in recent months. You should really just play the game or sell it. What good is it just sitting there?

Reminds him to stay the course and no more ‘oh shiny!’ moments. Eventually I’d sell it but not before my poor choice punished me for awhile.

Or he’s waiting for this QC crapfest to play out hoping things improve. Multiple titles and years later? I don’t know...

#2150 71 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Quick Update:
Stern has been fast to respond to my emails. They said they sent my pictures to quality control and offered to send me a bottle of clear touch-up to mitigate the paint peeling issue.

Just lay it on thick.

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