Quoted from Vinnie:My Iron Maiden did this on the exact same post in around 600 plays. I’m waiting on Stern’s response...[quoted image]
Post back and let us know what Stern says.
I suspect nothing unless you have chipping.
And lots of it!
Quoted from Vinnie:My Iron Maiden did this on the exact same post in around 600 plays. I’m waiting on Stern’s response...[quoted image]
Post back and let us know what Stern says.
I suspect nothing unless you have chipping.
And lots of it!
Quoted from bellbrand:Can someone post the picture of the washers making the pooling worse. I was going to put some on but rethinking it now.
Look about 10 posts up from your post above and you will see two examples of the pooling beginning around the circumference of the washer.
Quoted from T7:I just got a new JPLE and it has the no-art circles and a much thinner clear, but still glossy.
So far it looks like this will fix the problem, absolutely no signs of pooling so far.
Is the clear hard to the touch?
Quoted from T7:I just got a new JPLE and it has the no-art circles and a much thinner clear, but still glossy.
So far it looks like this will fix the problem, absolutely no signs of pooling so far.
Pls report back after a couple hundred plays.
Quoted from Chrizg:Unboxed JP today. Only reason I’m buying NIB is for route.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
27 plays in
0DCDDFDF-47F1-46C4-B664-CD25C9C5E828 (resized).jpeg6D1073DA-E3A4-4A06-A7DC-72F36425AE12 (resized).jpegI understand as operators the need to have new machines on site but how's about you all hold off buying nib for 3 or 4 months so stern actually give a shit about us other non-operator enthusiasts? Long term the resale value of your 2nd hand off site pins won't be so bad as a result either...
Quoted from Chrizg:27 plays in[quoted image][quoted image]
Pack it back up and demand a new machine from the distributor or file a charge back. The folks affected need to hold these people accountable so they hold the manufacturers accountable. So sorry about your luck!
Quoted from JonCrox:Long term the resale value of your 2nd hand off site pins won't be so bad as a result either...
The resale value of games without the “no art” fix is eventually going to piss off a lot of NIB buyers.
Almost all of my Sterns are second-hand, and the price l’ll pay for one of these versus a game without issues is at least $500 less. It’s not worth the headache.
Quoted from aingide:The resale value of games without the “no art” fix is eventually going to piss off a lot of NIB buyers.
Almost all of my Sterns are second-hand, and the price l’ll pay for one of these versus a game without issues is at least $500 less. It’s not worth the headache.
Only 500? Not sure I’d buy one at any price TBH but if I did would have to be a couple grand less at least.
'27 plays in'
Yikes. I'd be boxing that up and sending it back.
Crazy they would let these things out with this kind of known production flaw.
No doubt it is a nightmare to deal with from the manufacturer's perspective, but it so going to be much worse because they keep shipping bad product out the door.
Quoted from Chrizg:27 plays in[quoted image][quoted image]
Nice to see those washers protecting the playfield.
Quoted from guitarded:'27 plays in'
Yikes. I'd be boxing that up and sending it back.
Crazy they would let these things out with this kind of known production flaw.
No doubt it is a nightmare to deal with from the manufacturer's perspective, but it so going to be much worse because they keep shipping bad product out the door.
He needs it on route for his expansion.
Quoted from EricHadley:Only 500? Not sure I’d buy one at any price TBH but if I did would have to be a couple grand less at least.
Truth. Damaged pf? Hard pass unless it’s a fire sale. For $800-up and time needed to swap a pf? Thousands less.
Of course this is a hypothetical. I’m out on these no matter. Too much liability.
Quoted from Jvspin:Nice to see those washers protecting the playfield.
Who the hell would even buy a washer version even on the second hand market?
So far it seems the new no art versions are doing ok.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Who the hell would even buy a washer version even on the second hand market?
So far it seems the new no art versions are doing ok.
Lol, washer version WV. Stern just doubled offerings overnight. Pro, Pro WV, Premium, Prem WV, LE, LE WV, SLE, SLE WV!!! Of course, you can opt for the no art, no washer version too!
In the future we will find out what are the good serial numbers to buy that have no pooling anymore.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Who the hell would even buy a washer version even on the second hand market?
So far it seems the new no art versions are doing ok.
Will the no art versions last is my concern and the reason I’m still holding off any purchases. Was the art lifting prematurely where posts where due to the added stress of the posts and the rest of the art is equally as susceptible to lifting and blistering the clear at some point?
Quoted from Roostking:Lol, washer version WV. Stern just doubled offerings overnight. Pro, Pro WV, Premium, Prem WV, LE, LE WV, SLE, SLE WV!!! Of course, you can opt for the no art, no washer version too!
Quoted from CLEllison:Pack it back up and demand a new machine from the distributor or file a charge back. The folks affected need to hold these people accountable so they hold the manufacturers accountable. So sorry about your luck!
This 100%, Pack it up and return it. Fuck the new machine with the same issues no thanks. Get your money back and move on.
I’m sure Stern is following this thread, so hear this Stern.
I haven’t paid much attention to Pinside/Pinball in about a year. I follow Stern on instagram and saw 3lvira was announced. I popped on Pinside to read the chatter and decided to buy the game. I called distributors and got the best price I could find. I was minutes away from picking up the phone and ordering the machine and then I stumbled on this thread. I reluctantly decided to pass on 3lvira. I purchased a HUO Dialed In with the funds instead.
Stern - You have to come out and address this issue. I firmly believe a public announcement would be best, but I’m aware that your lawyers wouldn’t like that. I am out on new Sterns and JJPs until these issues are fixed. These games simply cost too much for these issues to be happenening. Pinball is more art to me than a game. The quality of the Playfield is important.
Quoted from NightTrain:I’m sure Stern is following this thread, so hear this Stern.
I haven’t paid much attention to Pinside/Pinball in about a year. I follow Stern on instagram and saw 3lvira was announced. I popped on Pinside to read the chatter and decided to buy the game. I called distributors and got the best price I could find. I was minutes away from picking up the phone and ordering the machine and then I stumbled on this thread. I reluctantly decided to pass on 3lvira. I purchaesed a HUO Dialed In with the funds instead.
Stern - You have to come out and address this issue. I firmly believe a public announcement would be best, but I’m aware that your lawyers wouldn’t like that. I am out on new Sterns and JJPs until these issues are fixed. These games simply cost too much for these issues to be happenening. Pinball is more art to me than a game. The quality of the Playfield is important.
I am in the same boat, Stern is losing customers.
Quoted from Halfwasted:I am in the same boat, Stern is losing customers.
Well Gary doesn’t care about the home collector. We’re just a pita. So there’s that.
Good luck selling marked up nib junk to operators. I’m sure they’ll love breaking even in 5 years with a decimated machine.
Jack is marginally better but this better get sorted out. Who’ll buy the 12.5 CE’s then? Christ on a cracker people...
I'm really glad I found this thread as I was interested in buying Jurassic Park.
Not going to happen unless these issues are resolved.
Sorry for all the guys affected by these late flawed playfields. Here's hoping Stern is going to makes this right for you.
If these issues are as widespread on multiple machines as it appears, Stern is looking at possible class action or other lawsuits in the future. These games are too expensive for buyers to lose thousands trying to fix (or lose it on resale) known manufacturing defects.
I just don't understand how Stern never had all these PF issues until 2015ish and now can't seem to fix the problems over several years and machines. Unacceptable.
Quoted from Utesichiban:I just don't understand how Stern never had all these PF issues until 2015ish and now can't seem to fix the problems over several years and machines. Unacceptable.
Technology and manufacturer change. They went from contracting to Churchill/CGC making playfields via screen printing to doing it in house via digital printing.
The JP2 LE reports so far are encouraging, so maybe there is some hope going forward. Unfortunately that still leaves a lot of people with issues from the last few years.....
TBH I wish Pinside would sticky a SERVICE BULLETIN to the top of the Forum. This info needs to be screamed from the rooftop.
Bump.
Quoted from T7:I just got a new JPLE and it has the no-art circles and a much thinner clear, but still glossy.
So far it looks like this will fix the problem, absolutely no signs of pooling so far.
I am waiting for a JPLE as well. My distro told me that Stern reworked all of the LE playfields after this issue began to break big time and that all LE production was stopped until those new play fields were available and ready to use. It sounds like you got one of the new play fields. If they did figure it out that’s great as long as they’re now not using such thin clearcoat that it wears off the third time you wax the damn thing. My distro told me he told Gary on a major phone conference recently to just make them like you used to in 2007!
Quoted from underlord:Well Gary doesn’t care about the home collector. We’re just a pita. So there’s that.
Good luck selling marked up nib junk to operators. I’m sure they’ll love breaking even in 5 years with a decimated machine.
Jack is marginally better but this better get sorted out. Who’ll buy the 12.5 CE’s then? Christ on a cracker people...
Well if that’s true then Gary would have to be dumber than a post. Most of Stern’s profit margin is earned from the home use only market. How many LEs do you see on location? Do you really think Stern doesn’t know that? I actually believe we are their most important market and they know it too they’re just not sure how to deal with the problem and they’re scared that’s my view, just as Jersey Jack is. This is a nightmare from a manufacturing perspective.
Quoted from GamerRick:I am waiting for a JPLE as well. My distro told me that Stern reworked all of the LE playfields after this issue began to break big time and that all LE production was stopped until those new play fields were available and ready to use. It sounds like you got one of the new play fields. If they did figure it out that’s great as long as they’re now not using such thin clearcoat that it wears off the third time you wax the damn thing. My distro told me he told Gary on a major phone conference recently to just make them like you used to in 2007!
I was told the same. Seems all the new LE’s wont have the pf issues above. We are suppose to get our JPLE tomorrow.
Quoted from fishbone:I'm really glad I found this thread as I was interested in buying Jurassic Park.
Not going to happen unless these issues are resolved.
Sorry for all the guys affected by these late flawed playfields. Here's hoping Stern is going to makes this right for you.
There are actually many threads about modern machines with the polling, chipping issue. They are all over Pinside you can’t miss them at this point. And that’s great the manufactures are truly learning how serious this is from how big of a reaction there has been and continues to be until we all feel safe again to plop $9000 down on an NIB purchase and I have to worry about getting something that’s defective upon receipt and will surely fail eating up our investment.
Quoted from Halfwasted:I am in the same boat, Stern is losing customers.
...I'm focusing on older titles/used for sure. Absolutely NO NIB for the forseeable future.
Quoted from underlord:Truth. Damaged pf? Hard pass unless it’s a fire sale. For $800-up and time needed to swap a pf? Thousands less.
Of course this is a hypothetical. I’m out on these no matter. Too much liability.
Im out too. So much wanted to buy elvira.
Quoted from Utesichiban:If these issues are as widespread on multiple machines as it appears, Stern is looking at possible class action or other lawsuits in the future. These games are too expensive for buyers to lose thousands trying to fix (or lose it on resale) known manufacturing defects.
I just don't understand how Stern never had all these PF issues until 2015ish and now can't seem to fix the problems over several years and machines. Unacceptable.
I can virtually guarantee a class action lawsuit will be coming if they don’t fix this and fairly address the damage machines already out there in people’s hands. You’re talking about millions and millions of dollars worth of pinball machines, lawyers on those kind of cases get 1/3 of the recovery so there will be a lot of money grubbing attorneys wanting to take this at some point. Only problem is those cases only make money for the lawyers. So the lawyers may end up with $10 or $20 million and will end up with a coupon for $100 off any NIB purchase. I get class action notices at least a couple times a year from things and the benefit to me is always so small I don’t even bother sending in the paperwork. But that doesn’t really matter in terms of us getting action, a lawsuit would force action, and that’s really what we want - action. I don’t care about money, I just want my pins to last a long time period.
Quoted from CLEllison:Pack it back up and demand a new machine from the distributor or file a charge back. The folks affected need to hold these people accountable so they hold the manufacturers accountable. So sorry about your luck!
That is exactly what u do....and they will have to do it. They have to fix the issue or replace the game.....Amazing...So upsetting
In the vein of "making the best of a bad situation"...
Titan Pinball has released some silicone washers for the playfield problem. Thought I'd pass the link on in case people haven't seen them.
https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=154&search=washers
It's kind of darkly humorous and karmic for Stern...all in one.
There is way more competition out there in 2019 for manufacturing but Stern is still the lion's share of the market by far. They got greedy and IMO they wanted to pursue a strategy of massive amounts of new releases to squash the competition before these competitors could get established.
A cruel but effective strategy. What have we had so far this year? Beatles; Munsters; Primus; Black Knight Sword of Rage; JP2; Elvira; then another cornerstone release yet this year and something planned for early 2020? Way more releases than in the past...all this while the smaller competitors struggle to get out 1 or 2 new titles a year.
And Stern has really pumped these out! *Lots* produced of each title...and continued production of recent titles like Deadpool; Batman 66; etc...which were still selling.
Just when they unloaded massive amounts of product to kill their competitors before they really got established, many of the playfields on these titles are showing failure.
Karma's a bitch, indeed!
Another big problem with Stern not addressing the playfield issue is that it leaves Elvira buyers wondering "Will my game have playfield issues"? Do Elvira LE buyers just bank on Elvira Premiums having playfield problems that are resolved by the time LE's ship? Do Elvira premium owners then think "Guess I'm a guinea pig, hope my game doesn't have problems"? That sucks for buyers of any model considering.
Quoted from Chrizg:27 plays in[quoted image][quoted image]
27 plays! That is just ridiculous.
At a bare minimum people who are buying these pins and then trying to sell them on are going to be asked questions about the pooling etc. If they have pooling and it hasn’t yet developed into chipping or lifting of the artwork then that’s basically asking prospective buyers to shoulder the burden of having to deal with Stern if/when it develops into that, assuming they’ll even deal with it for second hand pins etc.
Those people are buying a pin which is basically instantly devalued from having the pooling there.
I honestly don’t get why people are disregarding this as soon as a new theme is announced. All that achieves is to undermine the efforts of those with this problem who are trying to get it resolved. What lesson is there for Stern if they can just disregard existing owners and sell a new theme to other ones, or - worse - existing owners with the problem are too sucked up in the hype NOT to throw more money at them.
My Stern Tron LE has zero pooling, chipping or lifting. Spending the right amount of money on the playfield wood, artwork and clearing is not beyond the wit of man, they were already doing it years ago. I guess now, like the more conspicuous BOM cost cutting that saw drop targets removed and plastic ramps instead of wireforms, money spent on this stuff got shaved as well.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Another big problem with Stern not addressing the playfield issue is that it leaves Elvira buyers wondering "Will my game have playfield issues"? Do Elvira LE buyers just bank on Elvira Premiums having playfield problems that are resolved by the time LE's ship? Do Elvira premium owners then think "Guess I'm a guinea pig, hope my game doesn't have problems"? That sucks for buyers of any model considering.
Elvira buyers don’t have to buy them. Anyone buying these pins now with the knowledge that it exists across several pins, and is being bandaided with washers and black circles instead if artwork, is basically asking to be punished.
If people had more resolve they wouldn’t accept it, and vote with their wallet. That’s the only power they have.
Quoted from Durzel:Elvira buyers don’t have to buy them. Anyone buying these pins now with the knowledge that it exists across several pins, and is being bandaided with washers and black circles instead if artwork, is basically asking to be punished.
If people had more resolve they wouldn’t accept it, and vote with their wallet. That’s the only power they have.
I think you’d have to be something of a putz to buy a NIB Stern or JJP at this time.
Quoted from Pinballer67:They got greedy and IMO they wanted to pursue a strategy of massive amounts of new releases to squash the competition before these competitors could get established.
Karma's a bitch, indeed!
If you think there’s some dark sinister motive behind releasing a bunch great games in a year, I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe free market capitalism is not for you.
Quoted from Durzel:Spending the right amount of money on the playfield wood, artwork and clearing
Please share your evidence that the issues are related to the amount of money spent.
Several have claimed this, none have shown evidence. Repeating it doesn't make it any more true but reading the same unsubstantiated claim a dozen times makes it more likely you'll believe it. Much of the social influencer/misinformation industry is based on it.
Quoted from swampfire:If you think there’s some dark sinister motive behind releasing a bunch great games in a year, I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe free market capitalism is not for you.
My friend, I think you misunderstand me I completely understand Stern's behaviour and I would do the same thing if I was them. Isn't it almost funny though (in a dark way), that they are trying so hard to succeed and THIS happens? Oh, Lordy!!
I live free market capitalism every day of my life. I've been an online retailer for 20 years and currently do 1 million in sales annually -- not that much, but it keeps me hopping for sure. Our little company, too, exists in a cutthroat business that is currently oversaturated. My job is pure, unadulterated, battle...every single day. But if I said I didn't enjoy the pure carnage of it...I would be lying!
Quoted from Pinballer67:My friend, I think you misunderstand me I completely understand Stern's behaviour and I would do the same thing if I was them. Isn't it almost funny though (in a dark way), that they are trying so hard to succeed and THIS happens? Oh, Lordy!!
Well the I think the word you’re looking for is irony. I’d agree with that. But Stern didn’t deserve this any more than JJP did.
I’m not in front of my games but when did art printed directly under the posts start? From memory I’m sure my Tron and Ironman have little circles slightly bigger than the posts, routed out with no artwork within the black rings.
Quoted from J85M:I’m not in front of my games but when did art printed directly under the posts start? From memory I’m sure my Tron and Ironman have little circles slightly bigger than the posts, routed out with no artwork within the black rings.
There doesn't appear to be any consistency here. Star Wars had art under the posts, then Munsters didn't have art under the posts, then JP2 (and others) did have it again. *shrug*
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