Unpopulated (crazy to expect a customer to attempt this), and haven't seen any posts showing the replacements were any better.

How have the pin(s) that really brought the issues in our faces w almost a total fail rate and low, low plays been forgotten?....JJP POTC...good grief

Thats one seriously ruined playfield

Yeah, I thought DPs were supposed to be good, darn.

Seems like Sterns playfield problems started in 2015 with a batch of Met pros and have gotten worse.

That playfield is rooted.

Regardless of the twitch streamers (which i love!) and the distros; dont buy this shit anymore. Sucks because i like the three distros i have used in the past but when i see them singing Facebook praise for the next new pins to pump hype-Its like you guys love pinball! You wouldnt buy this shit now? Would you...?

I know, i know, its a buisness and way if life...rant over.

The more I look at shit like this, the more I think this is a screen print issue. Mirco has spent a shit ton of money on a new screen print process and is too far in to admit any liability.

That is just shit. I really feel for you, nothing worse in this hobby than playfield issues. We visited an arcade while we have been on holidays, every Stern built after late 2017 had playfield issues. 6 games (Beatles, GOTG, ACDC, MUN, JP2, BKSOR) all in one place all having playfield issues. Not a good statistic.

Have you let Stern know? What did they say?

It took several calls to Stern after initial email with pictures. I was told that QC has determined this to be Normal. That the clear is solid and hard (which it's not, it's a frigging blister) To which I was told to send in more pictures showing that I could press down on the affected areas, which I did, and sent video. Nothing back. I will be calling again.

However I was also told that many people are calling about this (as they should be).

But Stern said this wasn’t widespread.............

What was being done differently in the 90's?

Adam's Family sold 20,000 pins for example, so I question if production speed is the issue.

My SS was routed and definitely took a beating but the playfield is immaculate...maybe they need to go back to mylar?
Or use that whole playfield protector overlay thing?

I was going to buy a DP and JP. I don't know what to do now...

Another thought...can we get replacement playfields and clearcoat them ourselves?

Anybody considering a class action lawsuit?

He phoned a few. A few people mention this and everybody assumes he's called everybody and is taken care of. A few have even mentioned they haven't received their refund for the PoTC playfield they had to *pay for* because JJP wouldn't initially back their product.

There is evidence in the PoTC thread (and others) that many haven't been called and cases are still open/no reply/etc.

It really seems hit or miss/luck of the draw - for many of these games.

On my PoTC LE, I have some minor pooling but I've addressed it and overall it looks very nice. My BM 66 prem has zero pooling/blistering/etc after thousands of plays. But it dates from early 2017.

This is correct.

honestly, it took probably 5 months of monthly pictures, calls, and emails. They have said they would replace, but that was over 6 weeks back and still no replacement has shown up.

If customers want this to be fixed then I suggest daily polite calls to both your distributor and Stern directly. Let them know you are not satisfied with the product and wont be buying more until they properly resolve this for you. Follow up with an email each day to document the phone call and give more photos.

They seem to have some threshold of "acceptable" which is far beyond what pretty much any customer deems acceptable for a NIB game. After the most recent frustration of being strung along for months, then being told they would replace, and still no replacement has arrived; I think their threshold is that you have to show blistering/ bunching in multiple areas that cant be hidden with a metal washer and show cracking/lifting of art.

I don't see how ANY playfield, no matter what it's painted with, is going to withstand that type of damage from a misinstalled or misdesigned ballguide. That damage those ballguides caused, and I agree its ugly, would happen on ANY playfield when a metal edge ball guide is torgued down that hard. They needed to install a washer at those ball guide rods to avoid that, to raise that metal edge so that it no longer digs into the playfield.

Incorrectly installed ball guides causing damage to playfields has been going on since they started being used. While I 100% agree Stern & JJP have had some serious artwork and clearcoat issues, one could have used the most expensive clearcoat/paint in the world and not prevented a ballguide doing damage like that when it's misinstalled.

Has anyone actually seen proof that anyone received a refund yet?

-wonka owner #08742206, play field #105, clear coat case #5107

Sadly but honestly I think this is what it is going to take for any widespread action to happen.

Promo photos of Elvira. Already shows blistering!!

FB_IMG_1568824770767 (resized).jpg

Whelp, no complaining aboot it after buying it now!!!

Can't say they weren't warned.

But hey, what do you want for $15,000 these days.

That's simple - Three "A-list" players pins. No more new in box for me.

I was talking about that with a buddy the other day.

We decided we will go play them wherever they are, but let the owners of them deal with the crappy playfields and expensive node boards.

We prefer to lead stress free lives. Slows the aging process.

My friend was promised a Batman 66 playfield, it's going to happen but his wait for it is 9 months already

Used pins have issues too, but Playfields are a critical part and shouldn't be crapping out new

In route to the dumpster

Nothing on older used pins I haven't been able to figure out how to fix relatively cheap including the boards.

And you are always able to inspect those playfields for any wear or defects and decide if they are acceptable to you.

Expensive mystery box pinball machines are too much a crapshoot for me now.

Now that’s all I needed to see. I’ll just watch from the sidelines as simps buy nib overpriced subpar quality games. This should be fun to watch over the next few months.

Well I was going to wait a year or 2 till the code was done anyway.

You really have to.

As I learned with both MET and BM66 is it's easy to tire of these games quickly without ever seeing them finally completed.

I'd rather tire of them quickly after they are actually done or close to done.

Obvious pooling on a high resolution marketing picture. At a time when everyone is complaining about playfields. How tone deaf can you get, Stern?

But... it's a formula that works...

Was saying for a while it seems like the artworks is part of the problem. Why isn't it staying attached to the board regardless of clear softness? Is it really both problems at once? Statistically unlikely and how do you f up 2 things so badly at once?

Still no word from Stern. If you're buying now I really don't understand where your head is at.

I figure they start with cheap wood, then add cheap ink, and top it off with cheap clear. So that is three elements. Then you throw in the who gives a shit factor and that makes it four.

I know you're half kidding but I'm thinking Stern only thinks this is being brought up by a few vocal pinheads. There are a lot of us, who are not so vocal, that are waiting for this issue to be properly addressed.

I can't believe I'm saying this but, at this point, I can't wait to see what deeproot has in store for us.

I've adjusted lane guides on pins and there was no wear, I'm not quite sure what misinstalled or misdesigned would mean other than the ball doesn't go where you want it to?

The issue is not just with lane guides either on these pins.

I just removed my very well routed SS apron to install a shooter lane Cliffy. There was a little wear at one spot under the front edge, but it was under the edge completely. Nothing coming off in the surrounding area. I've owned maybe 25 used pins (and most routed player's condition) and I've never seen any artwork issues around lane guides even those that needed adjustment as they had moved over time. No lost artwork around posts either. This SS had a lot of broken stuff (including a slightly bent post at the crate), obviously tons of plays, yet an immaculate playfield, even where not mylared.
I've seen a lttle wear at ramp flaps on a rare occasion, but no surrounding art breaking off.

And I am talking pins that are decades old. The damage issue discussed is happening at my friend's location in as little as one week (Wonka one week, but with Sterns too) and it's not due to something installed slightly off, or loose, or designed wrong...just manufactures sending out crap and knowing they are (because it's obvious by a simple visual inspection when it's not right).

These are dark times for purchasing JJP and Stern pins. My guess is even those that do not show obvious defects out of the box will probably wear out too soon.

I guess it's up to people if going forward they want to risk it, but I need to tell my distributor and Stern I'm not buying the 2 NIB Stern pins I had budged for the next year. I don't know what to do, I'm not currently interested in any other pins (not Stern) currently out there. Maybe I'll just wait for positive change, just be happy with what I have and play other people's self-distructing pins.

As long as it's Sledge Hammer!, I'm enthused.

Well that's a pisser. I was literally about to put down a deposit with GEX on a premium. Damn! Thanks for pointing that out.

Well "wait until issues are resolved" didn't work out for the IM Premium I just got.

There are a lot of people that still are despite all the warnings.

Let the bitching begin!

Has that picture been posted in the elvira official thread? They might want to see that

Wouldn't do any good. They have all been warned anyway.

Some are blinded by any new shiny box of lights.

Robert have you experienced any chipping yet?

So at what point were these issues actually "resolved"?

This is the biggest threat pinball has ever faced. If these manufacturers do not fix this problem VERY SOON they will lose so much business the industry will never recover. So I guess it’s all now up to how bad these businesses want to survive. It sucks too because it comes at a time when the innovations in pinball have been so exciting. It just takes the wind right out of you.

Let me rephase that. Because IM was released so long ago, I figured that code and mechanical / electrical etc... bugs were all worked out as is hopefully / normally (?) the case with a pin after it's been inproduction for sometime. Even playfield issues (for example I'm glad there is a later model protector - stainless steel - on the playfield behind the jump ramp). But obviously I've been blindsided by this clearcoat/artwork/wood fiasco.

As for resolution, I have no info other than some people say they are getting replacement playfields at a discount or free, and that my friend's free one has not shipped in 9 months.

But unpopulated playfields don't work well at all for me for a variety of reasons in a practical or financial manner.

Anyways, sorry for my confusing text

I hear that, but it is still good to have one if you ever go to sell the game.

Plus with an unpopulated playfield there are no posts screwed onto it yet, so chances are it will look good as long as it isn't ever installed.