(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

53 days ago



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There are 2594 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 52.
#51 53 days ago

Stern seems to have a much higher rate of acceptable playfields. They also have a history of sending out replacements to those affected by poor quality playfields that were in customers' games. I would feel comfortable buying a Stern at this point.

JJP has offered half price playfields to customers that have had issues. These playfields often fail the thumbnail tests and are basically no different than the failed playfields in the games. I would not feel comfortable buying at JJP game NIB or used from recent titles because of this.

Both companies make really appealing games, but I have to consider many things when looking at games to get.

#52 53 days ago

Unless the manufacturers include something covering playfield damage around posts in their warranty I wouldn't consider NIB right now. Regular wear in areas that come in contact with the ball is well within reason but the areas directly around the posts are not touched by the ball at all. This shit is ridiculous - Looking at you specifically JJP since you are the only manufacturer that has shown a complete lack of support in this regard. F- this shit.

#53 53 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

BKSOR and Munsters also seem to be lesser sellers, so may not be a great sample set

But still, with seemingly zero reported issues on those titles I feel like that data does matter?

#54 53 days ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

The fact that neither JJP, Stern, or Mirco has even commented on the issue is troubling.

What could they really say that would put people at ease? Even a statement like "We are aware of some issues, we're working on it, blah blah blah" would temporarily disrupt their sales, upset distributors stuck with defective products, and would cost tens of thousands of dollars every day if they have to halt the production line.

They're probably running around trying to figure it out themselves.

#55 53 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

What could they really say that would put people at ease? Even a statement like "We are aware of some issues, we're working on it, blah blah blah" would temporarily disrupt their sales, upset distributors stuck with defective products, and would cost tens of thousands of dollars every day if they have to halt the production line.
They're probably running around trying to figure it out themselves.

yep, and could you imagine the legal issues if they publicly stated they had known playfield issues.

#56 53 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

I have absolutely no desire to buy anything NIB anymore.

Even without the playfield issues, I'm with you on that!

#57 53 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

What could they really say that would put people at ease? Even a statement like "We are aware of some issues, we're working on it, blah blah blah" would temporarily disrupt their sales, upset distributors stuck with defective products, and would cost tens of thousands of dollars every day if they have to halt the production line.
They're probably running around trying to figure it out themselves.

They're probably just figuring out some nice wording to put in the manual/warranty right below the "Ghosting of inserts is considered a normal byproduct of playfield production and is not covered by warranty" line, that says something to the effect of "Pooling of the clearcoat around playfield posts and any subsequent chipping of clearcoat and loss of playfield art, is considered a normal byproduct of playfield production and is not covered by warranty".

You're welcome for the idea Stern and JJP, just make sure you change my wording so it doesn't look like you directly lifted this glorious idea from me. Just send me a t-shirt or something as a way of saying thanks.

-3
#58 53 days ago

I would want my NIB without clear on it going forward, seemed to work fine in the old days

17
#59 53 days ago
Quoted from rvdv:

I would want my NIB without clear on it going forward, seemed to work fine in the old days

Sure. Then you would only have to wipe off the specs of paint as they chipped off.

#60 53 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

Sure. Then you would only have to wipe off the specs of paint as they chipped off.

One easy step closer to having a desirable white wood model of all the popular new games.

#61 53 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Also bonus get a propper backbox latch, backbox, and real lockdown reciever.

Can't believe someone is still bitching about this stuff - the new lockdown latches are superior to the old
Besides, how many times do you use the backbox latch and lockdown bar

come on.... you probably miss incandescent bulbs also

#62 53 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

The problem is, as of now, neither manufacturer has responded in any official way about these issues.

They have never responded in an official way to ANY playfield issues... EVER. And never will. Where is the official response to the ghosting issue from GB, GOT, SMVE? There isn't one. They handle these on a case by case basis, and will give as little as they can.

And speaking of ghosting and chipping, this current is the result of that. My WOZ was chipping around the throne room because of the clear being too hard and brittle. My GOT ghosted a ton of inserts because of a change in the formula. The new games are pooling and chipping because it isn't hard enough or cured enough when they screw in the posts.

Don't hold your breath for an official statement about it. If it freaks you out, don't by NIB games.

#63 53 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

I have absolutely no desire to buy anything NIB anymore.

I hear you, and I, normally a willfully "eternal optimist", must admit I too am getting a little discouraged at this point. I have been in the market to buy 1-2 NIB games for almost a year, but have been somewhat paralyzed by indecision because every time I think I have decided upon which title(s) to get I come here and read these QC horror stories and it simply deflates all the enthusiasm. (Note that I understand and have no problem with the idea that NIB pins need a little tweaking, but NIB issues with critical stuff like cabinet or playfield integrity is absolutely unacceptable in all circumstances.)

Lately, it seems like an unending merry-go-round of: New game announced-->hype, excitement, and discussion follows-->games delivered-->owners in the NIB honeymoon phase are effusive in their praise-->a few problems start getting reported-->widespread speculation and general gnashing of teeth ensues-->problems begin to appear systemic-->Pinside ethos takes over and the discussion goes on ad nauseam for 80 pages with escalating personal sniping, topic derailment, and ultimately no resolution-->any potential joy is mostly quashed by that point.

Maybe I should pull the trigger on AFMr or MBr? Both titles are on my wish list, but are further down than some of the recent Stern and JJP games; perhaps this is the wisest move to both reduce the risk of disappointment AND scratch the NIB itch.

#64 53 days ago

Here is a pic of my Maiden Pro chipping. I never noticed the chipping until I found the missing piece in another area.

AD4A0E3C-6ADF-45AB-82C2-7A4DB656DD91 (resized).jpeg
#65 53 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

6-12 months apparently. ... Longer to be safe. Cant remember where I read that, but it was given advice. (Mirco)
There is no possible way these manufacturers are allowing their new releases to cure for anywhere near this amount of time.

You're sayimg that by now mirco potc is hard as rock and fully cured?
Anybody with a bubbly pirates can comfirm this statement?

#66 53 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

the new lockdown latches are superior to the old

Right.

That's why when I was looking at why a Whoa Nellie wasn't working, I couldn't flip those latches without prying up the playfield first as it was in the way.

Way better for sure.

#67 53 days ago
Quoted from quickstop:

Here is a pic of my Maiden Pro chipping. I never noticed the chipping until I found the missing piece in another area.[quoted image]

Jeez, in ten years that pf will look like a badly peeled orange.

#68 53 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Jeez, in ten years that pf will look like a badly peeled orange.

At least he won't have to worry about orange peel.

#69 53 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Jeez, in ten years that pf will look like a badly peeled orange.

Did you forget the sarcasm emogi? I don't see a bad dimple problem, chipping yeah...bad dimpling no.

#70 53 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Did you forget the sarcasm emogi? I don't see a bad dimple problem, chipping yeah...bad dimpling no.

Clearly you have not seen what a badly peeled orange looks like. No dimples.

#71 53 days ago

Playfield repair kit soon to be included:

amazon.com link »

#72 53 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

I think it has got to the point where customers are going to want to know where/who they get their playfields done before they purchase. And Stern and JJP will likely need disclose that information proactively.

Why? Bally / Williams did not tell their customers who were getting which playfield on their games. On their larger run of games, like Addams Family or even Creature, different companies made these playfields for Williams. Some people were lucky to get the Sun Process made playfields on Creature From Black Lagoon and ended up with a 'hot pink' colored playfield. Others got the crapper version playfields.

#73 53 days ago
Quoted from Tommy-dog:

different companies made these playfields for Williams. Some people were lucky to get the Sun Process made playfields on Creature From Black Lagoon and ended up with a 'hot pink' colored playfield. Others got the crapper version playfields.

To be fair, even some of the crappy playfields Williams used are still looking better than some of the new ones posted in this thread.

#74 53 days ago

It's just a small chip on my Munsters LE but I didn't expect it to happen so early in this games life...

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#75 53 days ago
Quoted from quickstop:

Here is a pic of my Maiden Pro chipping. I never noticed the chipping until I found the missing piece in another area.[quoted image]

That sucks.

How many people just went and checked their Maiden?!

I had cabinet issues but Stern took care of that.

Funnily enough the playfield is one of the best I have ever had.

It didn't ever seem to dimple, from day 1.

It really is a crapshoot these days!

#76 53 days ago
Quoted from Tommy-dog:

Why? Bally / Williams did not tell their customers who were getting which playfield on their games. On their larger run of games, like Addams Family or even Creature, different companies made these playfields for Williams. Some people were lucky to get the Sun Process made playfields on Creature From Black Lagoon and ended up with a 'hot pink' colored playfield. Others got the crapper version playfields.

I totally get it. But with the internet (pinside) we are able to see QC patterns at a much higher scaled and clarity then 'back then'. These products are now expected - for better or worse - to have playfields that don't have these issues - or at least not to this frequency.

I guess it can be boiled down to a more 'informed and discerning customer'? And I use discerning loosely, all the buyer wants is a good quality PF.

#77 53 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

Clearly you have not seen what a badly peeled orange looks like. No dimples.

Only badly peeled orange I see on a regular basis is me trying to make an old fashioned.

#78 53 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

That sucks.
How many people just went and checked their Maiden?!
I had cabinet issues but Stern took care of that.
Funnily enough the playfield is one of the best I have ever had.
It didn't ever seem to dimple, from day 1.
It really is a crapshoot these days!

My IMDN pro playfield is pretty amazing as well.

#79 53 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

CGC, also Munsters, BKSOR, ST Vaults etc no reported issues that I have seen.

It's definitely happening with Munsters. Pictures from some of the problem areas on my Munsters Pro below. These issues were present immediately after unboxing.

I have also seen in-person similar bubbling/lifting on other Munsters Pros and LEs so mine is not an isolated case.

No chipping yet. Fingers crossed. Hesitant to move my outlane posts for fear of chipping/new bubbling.

I personally think it comes down to an ink/wood adhesion issue, not a clearcoat issue. Maybe a clearcoat over artwork reaction. There's no artwork under the sling posts on Munsters and the clear is not lifting under those. And if you take a close look at the outlane posts, it only seems to be lifting where there is artwork, not where there's only wood with clear over it.

20190821_122247.jpg20190821_122300.jpg20190821_122314.jpg

#80 53 days ago

These threads are so depressing.

Sorry to all those affected

21
#81 53 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Sorry to all those affected

I'm sorry for anyone selling a game these days. The Sherlock Holmes investigation that's gonna go on will be the worst.

#82 53 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I'm sorry for anyone selling a game these days. The Sherlock Holmes investigation that's gonna go on will be the worst.

I don't think that will be an issue. When your saving serious cash you expect wear and tear. The people posting pins for sale for what they paid including the tax are going to get beat up and rightfully so. It seriously sucks for NIB buyers though I would be pissed. These issues on a used pin would mean nothing to me.

#83 53 days ago
Quoted from RobertWinter:

It's definitely happening with Munsters. Pictures from some of the problem areas on my Munsters Pro below. These issues were present immediately after unboxing.
I have also seen in-person similar bubbling/lifting on other Munsters Pros and LEs so mine is not an isolated case.
No chipping yet. Fingers crossed. Hesitant to move my outlane posts for fear of chipping/new bubbling.
I personally think it comes down to an ink/wood adhesion issue, not a clearcoat issue. There's no artwork under the sling posts on Munsters and the clear is not lifting under those. And if you take a close look at the outlane posts, it only seems to be lifting where there is artwork, not where there's only wood with clear over it.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Thanks for posting, it's the first one I've seen myself!

#84 53 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I'm sorry for anyone selling a game these days. The Sherlock Holmes investigation that's gonna go on will be the worst.

Yea that's a good point. I guarantee there are buyers who are going to obsess over this, even though it's such a wide spread thing.

#85 53 days ago

I don't want to go home and inspect my BM66 for fear that I might find something.

11
#86 53 days ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I don't want to go home and inspect my BM66 for fear that I might find something.

So don't!

Not saying there aren't issues here and there but people are going out of their way to ruin their enjoyment of their machines these days.

#87 53 days ago
Quoted from Darscot:

I don't think that will be an issue. When your saving serious cash you expect wear and tear. The people posting pins for sale for what they paid including the tax are going to get beat up and rightfully so. It seriously sucks for NIB buyers though I would be pissed. These issues on a used pin would mean nothing to me.

I don’t agree. If I were buying a used game, I’d ask about it before seeing in person. And I would heavily inspect it before I bought it. Polling or chipping would be a deal breaker, unless it was at a deep discount. To me a pinball is like any other collectible, and condition is king.

#88 53 days ago

I hate to say this but I advise everyone buying a used pin made in the last 3-5 years to ask if there is any PF pooling/bubbling or chippping. That way you are covered if you receive a pin with these issues. If the pin manufacturers think people are mad now just wait till a lot of these defective machines hit the used market and people don’t want to buy them even at a big discount. So much for pins holding their value. To me this PF issue is the worst thing to hit modern pinball. Going to get ugly.....

#89 53 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

So don't!
Not saying there aren't issues here and there but people are going out of their way to ruin their enjoyment of their machines these days.

Agreed, I'll still buy NIB from Stern, CGC, American and Spooky with confidence. I've never purchased one from Spooky but will if the rerun TNA. I've never had an issue with the others. I'll never purchase another JJP though, but it's more than just playfields.

#90 53 days ago

time to route them all and just make the money back.

#91 53 days ago
Quoted from PinJim:

I don’t agree. If I were buying a used game, I’d ask about it before seeing in person. And I would heavily inspect it before I bought it. Polling or chipping would be a deal breaker, unless it was at a deep discount. To me a pinball is like any other collectible, and condition is king.

Yeah I don't expect used items to be in new condition, I also don't buy collector quality pins. If I wanted that level of quality I would buy NIB. When it comes to price and inspection, as a seller or a buyer there is an offer and the seller accepts it or he doesn't. I don't do the whole nickel and dime over every little thing.

#92 53 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

Right.
That's why when I was looking at why a Whoa Nellie wasn't working, I couldn't flip those latches without prying up the playfield first as it was in the way.
Way better for sure.

I love the already two thumbs down on this post like I'm not stating fact and that I'm making it up.

I would have liked to have watched either of you try to do it.

#93 53 days ago

the scary thing about this is Stern made GOTG and IMDN over a year ago, yet munsters shows the problem. What ever quality management is going on its just not good enough. I have huge respect for Stern a they replaced my GB playfield here in the UK. That must have been expensive so I would be all over playfield quality given its impact when you get it wrong.

#94 53 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

I love the already two thumbs down on this post like I'm not stating fact and that I'm making it up.
I would have liked to have watched either of you try to do it.

must be a faulty pin as I've worked on WNBJM a few times and not had to do that. In my view the latches are far superior.

#95 53 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

must be a faulty pin as I've worked on WNBJM a few times and not had to do that. In my view the latches are far superior.

It was faulty alright. Maybe where it was mounted. But there was no way in hell to unlatch it without the playfield being lifted... with the glass on. Fact.

The one's I've used that did work, I didn't care much for either. One lever in the middle is easier to use. Now that part is only my opinion.

#96 53 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Is there are simple and cheap way home owners can deal with this?
Touch up with clear nail polish or something?

Hardtop

#97 53 days ago
Quoted from Darscot:

I don't think that will be an issue. When your saving serious cash you expect wear and tear.

"serious cash" is a relative term.

#98 53 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I'm sorry for anyone selling a game these days. The Sherlock Holmes investigation that's gonna go on will be the worst.

yep, will be so painful.

#99 53 days ago

Calling HEP and Kruzman...
Im curious to hear what some of the experts opinions are on these issues.

#100 53 days ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

I hate to say this but I advise everyone buying a used pin made in the last 3-5 years to ask if there is any PF pooling/bubbling or chippping. That way you are covered if you receive a pin with these issues. If the pin manufacturers think people are mad now just wait till a lot of these defective machines hit the used market and people don’t want to buy them even at a big discount. So much for pins holding their value. To me this PF issue is the worst thing to hit modern pinball. Going to get ugly.....

Will be very hard to sell for sure and the inspections that will take place will be terrible. I would think long distant sells will drop even more now without being able to buy in person. I would be open to buying a used pin with issues but at a huge discount. Probably much lower than anyone would want to sell for.

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