(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

29 days ago



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There are 1666 posts in this topic. You are on page 19 of 34.
27
#901 14 days ago

Add me to the list that got a call from Jack today!

#902 14 days ago

Great news about the action from JJP!

Have not heard anything about my open ticket with Stern, but it has only been a week and there was Labor day. My issue is still very minor and I don't expect a replacement playfield, but I would like to document it and possibly get some advice on how to fix the chipping and prevent it from getting worse.

#903 14 days ago
Quoted from tbutler6:

This is correct. As far as I understand it-CGC screen printed until Aerosmith timeframe. Then Stern in house. Agree with your other points too.

I remember seeing Aerosmith for the first time and noticing how thick the clearcoat was. Looked incredible.

#904 14 days ago

I think if you get actual chipping (not just pooling) and get given a replacement PF free of charge that's a good and realistic outcome. It's a good halfway between no compensation and complete populated PF swap.

In reality most people wont swap the PF - they'll just put some washers on and keep the new PF as insurance. Hang it on the wall as art. Then the game will get sold down the track with a brand new uninstalled PF for the new buyer - almost a better outcome since the PF will be NOS and preferable to a used but installed PF.

I know some are expecting fully re-populated PF swaps, and for some very severe cases this may be warranted. But for the most part we should be happy to accept that there is a grey area between a commercial product that has high velocity steel ball flying around hitting things with huge force and a home consumer product / piece of art that should look pristine for as long as possible. A free of charge replacement PF is a good compromise that reflects that.

Kudos to JJP for accepting this and reaching out to affected owners.

10
#905 14 days ago

For reference, another new JP with pooling around the washers.

IMG_7234 (resized).jpeg

-2
#906 14 days ago

Good response from JJP!

#907 14 days ago

Not trying to be a smartass but you guys wont feel like you were made whole when you have to pay someone 2 grand to so a playfield swap for you. Still isn't an acceptable resolution by Jack in my opinion.

#908 14 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Not trying to be a smartass but you guys wont feel like you were made whole when you have to pay someone 2 grand to so a playfield swap for you. Still isn't an acceptable resolution by Jack in my opinion.

2 grand? WOW I was under charging!

#909 14 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

2 grand? WOW I was under charging!

Maybe $1000-$1200 but the point is still valid. Damn, that’s twice now I’ve agreed with that guy.

#910 14 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Not trying to be a smartass but you guys wont feel like you were made whole when you have to pay someone 2 grand to so a playfield swap for you. Still isn't an acceptable resolution by Jack in my opinion.

Not trying to be a smartass, but have you got a got a free playfield for Iron Maiden or Munsters? Also, when has Gary called you personally to apologize and offer a solution?

Keep in mind, I own 4 Sterns as well so I'm not a fanboy.

#911 14 days ago
Quoted from PinB:

For reference, another new JP with pooling around the washers.
[quoted image]

That looks about ready to pop.

13
#912 14 days ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

Maybe $1000-$1200 but the point is still valid. Damn, that’s twice now I’ve agreed with that guy.

The people that i know charge 1000 to 1500 for an older game for a playfield swap. A game that has as much shit on the playfield as POTC or WONKA i just figured would be in the 2K range.

I just dont understand why people are so giddy and saying "oh boy Jack called me personally and apologized, and now life is just wonderful....yippee!!!!"

Its a business move and a business move only folks so calm down. The fact is he tried to screw you by turning people down and then charging 550 dollars for a playfield and now he's still screwing you by giving people a new playfield for free.

His games cost 8-13K, nothing less than a fully populated playfield is acceptable. Some of you guys are gullible as f*ck. SMH

16
#913 14 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

I think if you get actual chipping (not just pooling) and get given a replacement PF free of charge that's a good and realistic outcome. It's a good halfway between no compensation and complete populated PF swap.

Cooked you know i love ya and you are one of my favorite pinsiders but there shouldn't be no halfway on a 6-13K game. The customer should not be out one penny for a defective playfield. It's 100% JJP and Sterns fault, the customer shouldn't be out any money because of these shit playfields.

#914 14 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

2 grand? WOW I was under charging!

Maybe, how much do you charge?

10
#915 14 days ago

20 years from now after these games with defective playfields have been bought and sold 10 times over, most will still be offered for sale with the spare playfield for the new owner to swap out.

15
#916 14 days ago
Quoted from PinB:

For reference, another new JP with pooling around the washers.
[quoted image]

That’s nothing. This is mine out of the box.

05295779-5B97-4494-9A06-7F496A1455ED (resized).jpeg536C8B0D-F1BD-4410-95CF-EF3AC6AB8421 (resized).jpeg80C3A30B-691F-4F6D-9D52-35F07DB93C71 (resized).jpeg
#917 14 days ago
Quoted from Parzival:

Not trying to be a smartass, but have you got a got a free playfield for Iron Maiden or Munsters? Also, when has Gary called you personally to apologize and offer a solution?
Keep in mind, I own 4 Sterns as well so I'm not a fanboy.

No i haven't got a resolution yet and i have no idea how things will even turn out, but if they f*ck me and Gary calls me and trys to butter me up im not going to feel any better about getting screwed i can tell you that right now.

There's very few people that i look up to and none of them are owners of a pinball company. Jack and Gary put their pants on just like you and i do.

#918 14 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

The people that i know charge 1000 to 1500 for an older game for a playfield swap. A game that has as much shit on the playfield as POTC or WONKA i just figured would be in the 2K range.
I just dont understand why people are so giddy and saying "oh boy Jack called me personally and apologized, and now life is just wonderful....yippee!!!!"
Its a business move and a business move only folks so calm down. The fact is he tried to screw you by turning people down and then charging 550 dollars for a playfield and now he's still screwing you by giving people a new playfield for free.
His games cost 8-13K, nothing less than a fully populated playfield is acceptable. Some of you guys are gullible as f*ck. SMH

LMK when you get your populated playfield for Iron Maiden and Munsters - I'll take mine for Deadpool LE and Iron Maiden Premium at that point too

So silly this turns into a manufacturer debate - there's room for more than one company in pinball

#919 14 days ago
Quoted from Parzival:

LMK when you get your populated playfield for Iron Maiden and Munsters - I'll take mine for Deadpool LE and Iron Maiden Premium at that point too
So silly this turns into a manufacturer debate - there's room for more than one company in pinball

I think if you'll look back in the thread that you will find out that YOU are the one that turned it into a manufacturers debate. I think EVERY manufacturer should stand behind their product, i dont care who they are. I'll go after Stern just like i do JJP if they fail to make their customers whole. Im not happy with Stern or JJP eirher one right now iver these shitty ass playfields.

#920 14 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Im not happy with Stern or JJP eirher one right now iver these shitty ass playfields.

Completely agree - im not happy with eirher one or iver playfields.

Seriously though, I love Stern just as much as you - just try to be a touch more reasonable

#921 14 days ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

That’s nothing. This is mine out of the box.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

But I didn’t think Stern had these issues? Kidding. And sorry for making a joke at your expense.

I hope everyone gets satisfaction from their manufacturer and distributor. Everybody knows that resale values matter in our hobby. Anyone that suggests otherwise is lying.

#922 14 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I think if you'll look back in the thread that you will find out that YOU are the one that turned it into a manufacturers debate. I think EVERY manufacturer should stand behind their product, i dont care who they are. I'll go after Stern just like i do JJP if they fail to make their customers whole. Im not happy with Stern or JJP eirher one right now iver these shitty ass playfields.

Dude, you’ve always been a Stern Fanboi. No one thinks otherwise. Just know that. We see right through you. It’s ok. But it’s also not.

#923 14 days ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

But I didn’t think Stern had these issues? Kidding. And sorry for making a joke at your expense.
I hope everyone gets satisfaction from their manufacturer and distributor. Everybody knows that resale values matter in our hobby. Anyone that suggests otherwise is a fucking douchebag that likes long hard things rammed up their ass on a continual basis, to distract them from their otherwise clueless existence and basic moronic personality.

No problem. I probably said that at one point.

Really holding out hope Stern will not turn their head to this.

I can show you picks of a routed DE JP. No issues with the clear around the star posts on that one.

#924 14 days ago
Quoted from Parzival:

I love Stern just as much as you

I don't love Stern at the moment. I'm very frustrated with these playfield issues.

#925 14 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I don't love Stern at the moment. I'm very frustrated with these playfield issues.

Fair enough - thanks for being objective. We all want the same thing and playing favorites doesn't help

#926 14 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Cooked you know i love ya and you are one of my favorite pinsiders but there shouldn't be no halfway on a 6-13K game. The customer should not be out one penny for a defective playfield. It's 100% JJP and Sterns fault, the customer shouldn't be out any money because of these shit playfields.

Yeh I can definitely see your side. These issues are happening out of the box, so the argument that “ this is pinball” doesn’t really hold when no pinball has been played on the game.

I’ve had my fair share of serious Playfield issues. Almost all other issues can be resolved relatively easily. But Pf damage is usually “terminal”. I’m lucky in that I have the equipment and space to do a full pf swap - (and I actually enjoy it). But I still believe having a brand new NOS pf to offer when selling a game is at least as good or even better than a used one installed.

#927 13 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Yeh I can definitely see your side. These issues are happening out of the box, so the argument that “ this is pinball” doesn’t really hold when no pinball has been played on the game.
I’ve had my fair share of serious Playfield issues. Almost all other issues can be resolved relatively easily. But Pf damage is usually “terminal”. I’m lucky in that I have the equipment and space to do a full pf swap - (and I actually enjoy it). But I still believe having a brand new NOS pf to offer when selling a game is at least as good or even better than a used one installed.

Yeah its better than nothing thats for sure. Im just thinking about the people that cant do a playfield swap, which would be most everyone in the hobby. Its so frustrating because i know that they can do better and that it doesn't have to be this way.

If i give my hard earned cash to a pinball company, i want it to be to a company that takes as much pride in making their games as i take in owning them and im just not seeing that right now. These are super expensive games/toys and they should be treated as such quality wise.

11
#928 13 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

I still believe having a brand new NOS pf to offer when selling a game is at least as good or even better than a used one installed.

Disagree. A small percentage of pinball owners have the skill or desire to swap out a playfield. I’ve done one in 25 years; will never do another. It may sound good as a package deal, but for most buyers an NOS PF in the deal isn’t realistically going to make a difference.

#929 13 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Maybe, how much do you charge?

1k

#930 13 days ago

1K for say a Meteor and 1K also for a JJP POTC? Theres a huge difference there in the amount of work that you would have to do isn't there?

#931 13 days ago

Has anyone asked if JJP would do the swap for those willing to get the game to them?

#932 13 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

I considered that, but listening to the first part a second time (which I couldn't help since I couldn't believe the inaccurate statements I was hearing), the issue was definitely "skirted around", like the elephant in the room. Unless you've been under a rock the Stern issue can not be ignored.... . Unless there is a specific reason to ignore it...
Also "The Pins" issue sounded to be minor... yet the JJP and Mirco bashing went on regardless. Not a word really about Stern at all, who seem to be the mob with the more widespread problem, based on the evidence submitted, and what I have seen on local Stern games here. We haven't even seen any JP's here yet, that is sure to be interesting when those boxes arrive....

Yeah this is disappointing, I would guess Martin had been reading this thread before recording the podcast by some of his comments, but not a single word from him about this being a problem with JP. Unless he corrects this and has an update in his next podcast stating that Stern JP is also affected by the "cleargate" issue then I won't be bothering listening ever again
Please do the right thing by the community Martin we are the customer remember?

It's not just him though, I have not seen any bloggers on social media say anything negative about Stern either, I think Stern must warn them not to say anything.

11
#933 13 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

1K for say a Meteor and 1K also for a JJP POTC? Theres a huge difference there in the amount of work that you would have to do isn't there?

In a lot of ways the newer pfs can be easier. More modular, better harnesses, no need to rebuild mechs, drop targets, etc. there is more on modern games... but they are built different and if the mech holes are setup correctly it would go pretty quickly.

#934 13 days ago
Quoted from pickleric:

Has anyone asked if JJP would do the swap for those willing to get the game to them?

I think the deal is somewhat fair, under the condition that the spare playfield holds up.

Why?

Having a new i guess takes alot of nuisance of. You will probable be more at ease having thoose mostly cosmetic issues.
Then say that mirpoo playfield, as flawed as it is, still holds up for a 20k games or so.
Then you make the swap and The game looks as good as new. You will then have payed 1500(swap-price) for 20k games.

I realise it"s not a dream situation but, still ok'ish and we get to see the company and their future product.
As said though, the new pf must be flawless and they better look over the coming pf's and qc.

Just my view.

#935 13 days ago

A playfield is only new once.

#936 13 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

In a lot of ways the newer pfs can be easier. More modular, better harnesses, no need to rebuild mechs, drop targets, etc. there is more on modern games... but they are built different and if the mech holes are setup correctly it would go pretty quickly.

Totally agree. People underestimate the work to swap older games. I'll do a swap on a new one over an old one any day of the week.

#937 13 days ago
Quoted from andre060:

Totally agree. People underestimate the work to swap older games. I'll do a swap on a new one over an old one any day of the week.

Hot swapping new games is relatively easy if you have the tools. Even a "complex" game like WOZ. Leave the original populated PF in the game, new pf on a rotisserie - remove from old, install on new. As long as you take your time and are methodical about it.

Stripping, restoring and re-populating an old game is a different animal.

#938 13 days ago

I was surprised to have a message on my phone today from Jack as well.
I will give him a call back tomorrow and see what he has to say.
By the time I got the message they were closed for sure.
To be honest I thought it was a spam call, from New Brunswick it said. Lol.

#939 13 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Yeh I can definitely see your side. These issues are happening out of the box, so the argument that “ this is pinball” doesn’t really hold when no pinball has been played on the game.
I’ve had my fair share of serious Playfield issues. Almost all other issues can be resolved relatively easily. But Pf damage is usually “terminal”. I’m lucky in that I have the equipment and space to do a full pf swap - (and I actually enjoy it). But I still believe having a brand new NOS pf to offer when selling a game is at least as good or even better than a used one installed.

I think for a new game out of the box, a populated is the way to go as it's clearly a day 1 manufacturing fault ( 1 - 12 weeks timeline ).

Or just return whole game for a refund.

If a game is older had a fair amount of plays, then a NOS playfield is a pretty good outcome.

#940 13 days ago

Does anyone have this issue in Europe? I remember from previous "problems" (cfr Stern only) that they occur much more in the US. Maybe because the period between packaging and actually using, playing is much longer due to transport.

#941 13 days ago
Quoted from pninja005:

Does anyone have this issue in Europe? I remember from previous "problems" (cfr Stern only) that they occur much more in the US. Maybe because the period between packaging and actually using, playing is much longer due to transport.

Europe too. On my Pirates SE, build date feb/2019.
Bought juli 2019

#942 13 days ago
Quoted from Slapfighter:

Europe too. On my Pirates SE, build date feb/2019.
Bought juli 2019

Sorry double post

#943 13 days ago
Quoted from jfh:

Disagree. A small percentage of pinball owners have the skill or desire to swap out a playfield. I’ve done one in 25 years; will never do another. It may sound good as a package deal, but for most buyers an NOS PF in the deal isn’t realistically going to make a difference.

Completely agree. If I ended up with a new playfield, there is no way I'd do a playfield swap. I'd most likely pass it on to whomever purchases my pin.

-3
#944 13 days ago

Jack speaking on a pinball podcast this week about playfield issues and then offering free replacement playfields to Pirates owners with chipping, meanwhile at Stern...

download (1) (resized).jpg

#945 13 days ago

Stern needs to step it up now! Where are the calls from Gary Stern!

11
#946 13 days ago

Kudos to Jack for at least making a move in the right step. If my machine was effected, a PF doesn't really do me any good as I don't have the skill to replace one. If that's the only solution, I would rather have a $500 refund. To me personally, if I get a machined delivered by my distributor with these issues, they can pack it up and take it back for a replacement or full refund. Only solution that works for me is a defect free machine for $8 grand.

I have my fingers crossed, that this move from Jack is an acknowledgement of the issue and that no more new games leave the factory with issues. This is a 100% solvable issue in manufacturing. When new games start showing up without issues, I will resume buying with confidence.

#947 13 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Only solution that works for me is a defect free machine for $8 grand.

This is precisely the stance I'm taking with my case.

-wonka owner #08742206, play field #105, clear coat case #5107

#948 13 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

In a lot of ways the newer pfs can be easier. More modular, better harnesses, no need to rebuild mechs, drop targets, etc. there is more on modern games... but they are built different and if the mech holes are setup correctly it would go pretty quickly.

Agree, I found Medusa to tougher then most newer games. But for a game like BOPP or KISS I will charge less as they're less difficult.

Back on topic ...... I keep seeing people saying "kudos to Jack".......did I miss something here? Has Jack come out and discussed this topic yet or are people still referencing the fact that he offered new playfields for $500???

#949 13 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

Back on topic ...... I keep seeing people saying "kudos to Jack".......did I miss something here? Has Jack come out and discussed this topic yet or are people still referencing the fact that he offered new playfields for $500???

Go back in this thread and read. Start at post #896 from about 1pm yesterday.

-wonka owner #08742206, play field #105, clear coat case #5107

#950 13 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Go back in this thread and read. Start at post #896 from about 1pm yesterday.
-wonka owner #08742206, play field #105, clear coat case #5107

Thanks, I completely missed it

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