(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

2 years ago


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There are 9,111 posts in this topic. You are on page 181 of 183.
#9001 44 days ago
Quoted from CoachBacca:

So this is normal and nothing to be overly concerned about or will it get bigger if I don’t do something to it?

Doesn't look normal to me .
I don't know how Stern does alignment holes or dimples but that artwork has chipped off and could be an indication of what could happen in the future .
After so few plays , I would contact whoever you brought it off .
This is what an alignment hole looks like on a fish tales .

IMG20220702003423 (resized).jpg
#9002 44 days ago

As someone suggested get some clear nail polish and put a dab of it on the hole. This will secure the clear from further cracking. Pretty sure it would hold up fine. If you leave it alone it will probably grow and could cause further loss of the clear/artwork.

#9003 44 days ago
Quoted from homebrood:

As someone suggested get some clear nail polish and put a dab of it on the hole. This will secure the clear from further cracking. Pretty sure it would hold up fine. If you leave it alone it will probably grow and could cause further loss of the clear/artwork.

If it's chipping off there , who knows where else the art could come off .
I wouldn't find this acceptable .
Stern will replace any faulty playfield .

#9004 44 days ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Stern will replace any faulty playfield .

That's certainly not a guarantee. Sometimes they will tell customers that the faults are within acceptable limits and offer nothing.

#9005 44 days ago
Quoted from Maken:

That's certainly not a guarantee. Sometimes they will tell customers that the faults are within acceptable limits and offer nothing.

Really ? The Stern guys say that Stern doesn't have any Playfield issues and if they do , they will fix it and it's only jjp who have shit customer service

#9006 44 days ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Really ? The Stern guys say that Stern doesn't have any Playfield issues and if they do , they will fix it and it's only jjp who have shit customer service

They do tend to say that lol... but it's not true for everyone in all situations. Most people won't post after getting declined a new playfield, because they still need to sell their faulty pin to someone else.

Edit: chuck might, but most def won't.

#9007 44 days ago
Quoted from Maken:

They do tend to say that lol... but it's not true for everyone in all situations. Most people won't post after getting declined a new playfield, because they still need to sell their faulty pin to someone else.

I'm just mucking around mate , pinside likes to shit on jjp playfields but it's like no one ever mentions Stern games .

#9008 44 days ago
Quoted from screaminr:

I'm just mucking around mate , pinside likes to shit on jjp playfields but it's like no one ever mentions Stern games .

Completely agree.

#9009 44 days ago

For what it is worth, in the past year I have unboxed and setup games from JJP and Stern for myself and others. I have not had one playfield flaw evident on Godzilla Premium or Toy Story 4. Toy Story 4 comes equiped with washers on most posts, but the clear is looking good so far.

#9010 43 days ago

I had a stern playfield with issues they didn’t replace. The issues weren’t large enough for them to replace the playfield. If they deem the issues bad enough, they will. Issues include:

Warped playfield
Clearcoat and art chipping away on a brand new game
Wood grain/ribbing that’s bad

#9011 43 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I had a stern playfield with issues they didn’t replace. The issues weren’t large enough for them to replace the playfield. If they deem the issues bad enough, they will. Issues include:
Warped playfield
Clearcoat and art chipping away on a brand new game
Wood grain/ribbing that’s bad

Same. It definitely happens.

Wasn't going to buy NIB ever again after that experience.... But they got me with my dream theme. Got lucky on my Rush playfield though, it's perfect.

1 week later
#9012 33 days ago

This is on a sling post of my NIB Rush I got less than 2 weeks ago. It has roughly 100 plays, but I believe it was like this when I got it.

It doesn't seem to be pooling. And it's hidden. I'm just wondering: will it progressively get worse and spread?

20220712_213308 (resized).jpg20220712_213647 (resized).jpg
#9013 33 days ago
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:

This is on a sling post of my NIB Rush I got less than 2 weeks ago. It has roughly 100 plays, but I believe it was like this when I got it.
It doesn't seem to be pooling. And it's hidden. I'm just wondering: will it progressively get worse and spread?
[quoted image][quoted image]

Oh sh*t…not this stuff again.
Sorry this happened but appears no pooling yet.
It didn’t spread on my GNR but not sure about other recent Stern titles.

#9014 33 days ago
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:

This is on a sling post of my NIB Rush I got less than 2 weeks ago. It has roughly 100 plays, but I believe it was like this when I got it.
It doesn't seem to be pooling. And it's hidden. I'm just wondering: will it progressively get worse and spread?
[quoted image][quoted image]

What is that? Looks like wax around the post.

#9015 33 days ago
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:

This is on a sling post of my NIB Rush I got less than 2 weeks ago. It has roughly 100 plays, but I believe it was like this when I got it.
It doesn't seem to be pooling. And it's hidden. I'm just wondering: will it progressively get worse and spread?
[quoted image][quoted image]

Not pooling. You have clearcoat chipping. I have a spot on my Stranger Things like this, but not as bad. Comes from too thick clear, I believe. Caused by the air tool over tightening.

#9016 32 days ago
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:

This is on a sling post of my NIB Rush I got less than 2 weeks ago. It has roughly 100 plays, but I believe it was like this when I got it.
It doesn't seem to be pooling. And it's hidden. I'm just wondering: will it progressively get worse and spread?
[quoted image][quoted image]

Only time will tell. Document it with your distributor

#9017 32 days ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

Not pooling. You have clearcoat chipping. I have a spot on my Stranger Things like this, but not as bad. Comes from too thick clear, I believe. Caused by the air tool over tightening.

That was my assessment as well. Has yours gotten any worse over time?

#9018 32 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Only time will tell. Document it with your distributor

Totally. I documented it in case it gets worse over time.

#9019 32 days ago
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:

This is on a sling post of my NIB Rush I got less than 2 weeks ago. It has roughly 100 plays, but I believe it was like this when I got it.

It doesn't seem to be pooling. And it's hidden. I'm just wondering: will it progressively get worse and spread?

To me it looks more like shredded plastic than clear coat. Maybe the post was overtightened and shredded some off the base of it? Hard to tell from pics.

#9020 32 days ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

To me it looks more like shredded plastic than clear coat. Maybe the post was overtightened and shredded some off the base of it? Hard to tell from pics.

That's what clear coat looks like when it lifts.

#9021 32 days ago

You all some tough customers. Any of you have post grad credits in Strength of Materials and understand the relationship between hard and brittle?

You have a bonded surface between wood, ink, and paint, that you are beating with a steel ball. You can improve on the durability of these things, but it is going to cost and there is always going to be a trade off between hard and brittle. People are asking for automotive clearcoats. Go throw a steel ball at your car a few times and see how the clearcoat holds up.

I pay $300 per playfield for clearcoating and that is only because I get them done in bulk. As a single playfield it would cost me three times that much. I think the product that I am producing is worth the extra effort because I am doing low volume and very low profit margins. If I had to put bread on the table with playfield profits, they would have to be either very expensive, or lower quality. I have the luxury of dong this for entertainment.

Fantastic!

15
#9022 32 days ago
Quoted from FantasticPinball:

You all some tough customers. Any of you have post grad credits in Strength of Materials and understand the relationship between hard and brittle?
You have a bonded surface between wood, ink, and paint, that you are beating with a steel ball. You can improve on the durability of these things, but it is going to cost and there is always going to be a trade off between hard and brittle. People are asking for automotive clearcoats. Go throw a steel ball at your car a few times and see how the clearcoat holds up.
I pay $300 per playfield for clearcoating and that is only because I get them done in bulk. As a single playfield it would cost me three times that much. I think the product that I am producing is worth the extra effort because I am doing low volume and very low profit margins. If I had to put bread on the table with playfield profits, they would have to be either very expensive, or lower quality. I have the luxury of dong this for entertainment.
Fantastic!

It’s crazy how when you’re charging 7k-15K for a toy customers become a bit tougher or more critical.

#9023 31 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

It’s crazy how when you’re charging 7k-15K for a toy customers become a bit tougher or more critical.

tough or critical is one thing. Asking a manufacturer to defy the laws of physics in another.

#9024 31 days ago
Quoted from FantasticPinball:

Any of you have post grad credits in Strength of Materials

Shit, I only have undergrad credits in Strengths of Materials and Mechanicals of Materials. Guess I'll see myself out.

18
#9025 31 days ago

Well, those guys at Bally/Williams that came up with Diamond Coat must have had some post grad credits in something because they managed to work with physics to do something right.

#9026 30 days ago
Quoted from PBFan:

Well, those guys at Bally/Williams that came up with Diamond Coat must have had some post grad credits in something because they managed to work with physics to do something right.

Well, physics was simpler back then...there weren't any of those pesky quarks and gluons and muons and such to worry about.

Life was easier when it was just F=ma. Now it's all relativistic time-dilation and stuff.

#9027 30 days ago
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:

That was my assessment as well. Has yours gotten any worse over time?

It hasn't, knock on wood. I did just notice, the other night, that both my side cab decals are wrinkling above the buttons at the side rails. Gonna have to hair dryer and smooth those out.

#9028 30 days ago
Quoted from PBFan:

Well, those guys at Bally/Williams that came up with Diamond Coat must have had some post grad credits in something because they managed to work with physics to do something right.

Happy to be proven wrong, but I recall diamond plate playfields had chipping and cracking issues in the clear because they are hard and brittle. Let’s have a look at them and figure out the difference. I know my playfields are topped with ceramic clear, aka diamond plate.

Oh, and for the guy with the undergrad credits, no offence intended. I was looking for an explanation and understanding better than my own.

Fantastic!

#9029 30 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Well, physics was simpler back then...there weren't any of those pesky quarks and gluons and muons and such to worry about.
Life was easier when it was just F=ma. Now it's all relativistic time-dilation and stuff.

I know this was meant to be humorous, but there are restrictions on the use of material these days that were not in place in the ‘80s. Perhaps the materials that were used are no longer available and the modern replacements are not quite the equivalent.

Folks, I am not trying to be belligerent about this, but as someone who is doing playfield manufacturing I want to understand the problem. My clearcoat costs are higher than the printing costs and I was informed yesterday that those costs are going up. If you think any manufacturer is using the wrong product or the wrong process, then let’s get to the bottom of it and find out what will resolve the issue.

Fantastic!

#9030 30 days ago
Quoted from FantasticPinball:

I know this was meant to be humorous, but there are restrictions on the use of material these days that were not in place in the ‘80s. Perhaps the materials that were used are no longer available and the modern replacements are not quite the equivalent.
Folks, I am not trying to be belligerent about this, but as someone who is doing playfield manufacturing I want to understand the problem. My clearcoat costs are higher than the printing costs and I was informed yesterday that those costs are going up. If you think any manufacturer is using the wrong product or the wrong process, then let’s get to the bottom of it and find out what will resolve the issue.
Fantastic!

I haven't heard of any issues with American Pinball playfields ( but I haven't looked )

10
#9031 30 days ago
Quoted from FantasticPinball:

Folks, I am not trying to be belligerent about this, but as someone who is doing playfield manufacturing I want to understand the problem. My clearcoat costs are higher than the printing costs and I was informed yesterday that those costs are going up. If you think any manufacturer is using the wrong product or the wrong process, then let’s get to the bottom of it and find out what will resolve the issue.

Why don't you start by reading through all of this thread and all of the other threads on the subject? This has been an on and off issue with playfields for the better part of the last decade. Many experts have chimed in and many more theories have been discussed. Really, it's the manufacturers job to figure this out and they probably have the best understanding of what has changed with the process. Still the issues continue, because consumers keep rolling the dice anyway. Playfield issues before this time were much less common. Most of the 90s games I have owned still look better today than many of the newer games with just a few hundred plays. Of course, there's always exceptions on either side.

#9032 30 days ago
Quoted from FantasticPinball:

You have a bonded surface between wood, ink, and paint, that you are beating with a steel ball.

This is out of the box, before the ball even hit that post.

Stern has no doubt mainly solved the issues they faced in years past of pooling and chipping by taking the paint away from the posts. My issue looks like someone over tightened the post, causing the chipping. This seems to be the exception these days, rather than the rule, demonstrating that a company can still produce playfields on mass scale that don't lead to chipping and pooling through play.

It seems I simply have bad luck in my case. But that's doesn't make it OK, either.

#9033 30 days ago
Quoted from PBFan:

Well, those guys at Bally/Williams that came up with Diamond Coat must have had some post grad credits in something because they managed to work with physics to do something right.

BAM!!!!

#9034 30 days ago
Quoted from FantasticPinball:

there are restrictions on the use of material these days that were not in place in the ‘80s. Perhaps the materials that were used are no longer available and the modern replacements are not quite the equivalent.

This is an oft-repeated assumption that's been shot down by a professional playfield restorer who I won't name for fear of misquoting him. Which chemical in Williams diamond plate is banned today? Be specific.

#9035 30 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Which chemicals are in Williams diamond plate? Be specific.

FIFY

#9036 30 days ago
Quoted from screaminr:

I haven't heard of any issues with American Pinball playfields ( but I haven't looked )

nor Spooky's & CGC's

#9037 30 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

nor Spooky's & CGC's

Spooky had pf issues with TNA for part of the run and has since remedied it.
They did send out a new pf at the time.

#9038 30 days ago

Well, my ACNC never even had a dimple after 18 months of play! Was smooth as glass and flawless unlike my Stern Spike games. My American HotWheels is also flawless although it has some normal dimpling.

BTW, I just installed a Hard Top on my Gorgar and it looks and plays awesome. Smooth as glass. Maybe it's time to switch to that tech and forget the clear coat since it's obviously a problem now for various reasons. Check out what Haggis Pinball is doing..

Haggis Pinball offering 3 options for playfield -

1- Traditional Plywood/Clear Coat (@1:10 "additional cost because it's much more laborious").
2- Plywood/Acrylic with scratch resistant coating (standard).
3- Plywood/Acrylic without scratch resistant coating, but clear coated instead (for those who want clear coat feel).
** Personally, I don't notice any difference between clear coated playfields and my Hard Top.

-
** Link to additional videos... https://www.youtube.com/c/HaggisPinball/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0

#9039 30 days ago
Quoted from PBFan:

Well, those guys at Bally/Williams that came up with Diamond Coat must have had some post grad credits in something because they managed to work with physics to do something right.

Umm no. You obviously were not around or buying games then. Same shit different time. Diamond plate came out due to chipping and cracking and chipped and cracked even more.
Most games were going to operators and if you complained, you were told you were the only one and to suck it up. No Pinside like today to share info.

#9040 30 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

This is an oft-repeated assumption that's been shot down by a professional playfield restorer who I won't name for fear of misquoting him. Which chemical in Williams diamond plate is banned today? Be specific.

https://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2021/2021-04-24/html/reg1-eng.html
All paints including PPG Omni products were changed to comply with new environmental regulations. New products are water based. Restrictions in Europe are more restrictive.
So that is the basis of that rumour. However, I didn’t read anything about reduced performance. In fact, the opposite seems to be true.

Fantastic!

#9041 29 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Well, physics was simpler back then...there weren't any of those pesky quarks and gluons and muons and such to worry about.
Life was easier when it was just F=ma. Now it's all relativistic time-dilation and stuff.

#9042 29 days ago

Stern Playfields from the Roller Coaster Tycoon and Ripley's eras had excellent durability.

Quoted from FantasticPinball:

https://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2021/2021-04-24/html/reg1-eng.html
All paints including PPG Omni products were changed to comply with new environmental regulations. New products are water based.

This isn't true. I can buy numerous clear coats loaded with methylethylbadshit from my local auto paint supply place all day every day.

#9043 29 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Stern Playfields from the Roller Coaster Tycoon and Ripley's eras had excellent durability.

Yes, Stern Whitestar and Sam system games. My Stern Star Trek (Sam) has an awesome playfield. It wasn't until Spike that the real problems started. Mirco as well.

#9044 29 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Stern Playfields from the Roller Coaster Tycoon and Ripley's eras had excellent durability.

This isn't true. I can buy numerous clear coats loaded with methylethylbadshit from my local auto paint supply place all day every day.

Yeah, I bought that newspaper and printed that fake story just to throw you off the trail.

#9045 29 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

It’s crazy how when you’re charging 7k-15K for a toy customers become a bit tougher or more critical.

This, as prices have risen so have expectations of quality (plus what is being included in games).

#9046 29 days ago
Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

Yes, Stern Whitestar and Sam system games. My Stern Star Trek (Sam) has an awesome playfield. It wasn't until Spike that the real problems started. Mirco as well.

it started before, i remember my NIB Metallica PRO, early run, with chearcoat chiping at the shooterlane right after the first few games :/ and also at the rack drain enter, but than nothing in others places of the PF

quite sure i remember i was not the only one to report...

#9047 28 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

This, as prices have risen so have expectations of quality (plus what is being included in games).

Ya, with Stern Spike quality went down as prices increased. Also, it's a f**king disgrace IMO that a rock pin (especially a premium) has cheap speakers and a cheap amp that requires you to upgrade for quality sound!! WTF?

#9048 28 days ago
Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

Yes, Stern Whitestar and Sam system games. My Stern Star Trek (Sam) has an awesome playfield. It wasn't until Spike that the real problems started. Mirco as well.

The printing on some of the whitestar games is awful. Not sure if it’s the source file, or the printing process, but looks really bad on some games.

#9049 28 days ago

Pretty sure it was the printing process. See: Frodo's demon eyes

#9050 28 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

The printing on some of the whitestar games is awful. Not sure if it’s the source file, or the printing process, but looks really bad on some games.

At least they weren't pooling and chipping.
Stern had a reason to cut corners in the lean years!

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