Some sort of simple sleeve to make the post snug in the hole and we're good to go! Come on JJP, you can do it!!!

These amateur buffoon videos are always hilarious, especially when people desperately latch onto them as anything that makes any kind of sense.

Remember that Australian lunkhead who had half of pinside conviced that all Stern spike games would be paperweights within 6 months?

are there any actual news as to what JJP is going to do about the PF issues?
I see a lot of people complaining so the issue seems to be a thing... I am asking because I would like to own GNR, and would be so much more inclined if JJP was open to discussion about these problems but that does not seem to be the case...

All that to say, I personally can't support a company that does not stand behind their product, even if it seems to be the coolest game out there now...

Customer service is just as important for me...

This is not the root cause of the problem. It is just a stupid design that is making the problems with clearcoat even worse.

All of us guys who have been servicing pinball machines for 40 plus years know that those metal mini posts are always loose on games.

Every time you go out to a new clients place of business it is guaranteed those posts will be loose.

Often times the posts are really loose, because someone has put a #6 post into a #8 hole

So you always have to loc-tite them and make sure that the correct post is installed

Never in the tens of thousands of games that I have serviced, have I ever seen 25 mm of paint chip away around a loose post.

The loose post always wears a tiny ring the exact diameter of the post. It does not lift all the surrounding ink and clear off, lol

Doesn't matter if it's an OEM or a CPR playfield, the results are the same.

These games have had millions of balls run over them, and the metal posts are inches away from the flippers:

IMG_20210613_181140__01 (resized).jpgIMG_20210613_181243__01 (resized).jpg

Crap playfields can't even survive a few thousand balls, let alone millions

I still think the core of the problem is chemical and related to the adhesion of the ink to wood or primer. That being said, a post that sloppy is certainly not helpful and is going to contribute to the problem.

I don’t think a playfield protector is a good idea. The wood, paint, clear around holes and clear elsewhere are all drying at individual rates. The paint in particular is not adhering before it is being pulled by the drying clear. So to add a protector would bind to the top layer and might cause stresses from another direction.

If the paint was bonding we wouldn’t have this mess. In that case you could sand off the clear and reclear. Unfortunately the artwork is not bonding. I wish Mirco would produce a few thousand screened playfield and have JJP look at those test results, brother. Then JJP could draw the line in the sand and say, only screened playfields from now on.

Sorry. I'll try to clean up any future posts I make here on Pinside. I don't want to add to the problem.

Hmmm, “anyone has a right to their opinion of GNR.” My friend, think an earlier poster figured out all the PF issues to help us all out on some of our many JJP woes. Hopefully they’ll get it right for TS! So there’s hope yet! Be happy!

So you’re saying putting sleeves to tighten the sloppiness won’t help JJPs PF problems? What is the solution then???

Smaller hole and no art around the post - simple.

Keep in mind your comparing the damage on a screen printed playfield to a digital one. Not saying your wrong but chances are they may both react differently to a loose post. Easy way to tell if a loose post has any bearing on the damage is to check a post on a Stern playfield with the same problem.

If Stern were to release another vault edition of an older game, like Ghostbusters, would they remove artwork from around the posts?

Posts are never snug in the hole where T-Nuts are used (the T-nut barrel actually sits in the hole)
Posts that are snug should be posts that are only held on with a nylon nut.

I haven't looked at which posts these are in our game... but even if they are using a t-nut post vs a post w/nut - it's not 'why' the PFs are chipping - other playfields that have mechs or posts move don't chip like this. They gouge or wear. Which is why we get that halo of missing paint under posts in nearly every game of the last decades after enough play/age.

Even posts that are press fit and take direct flipper shots usually end up bending or working their way loose. And again on those PFs we don't get the topcoat pulling and chipping.

Just thinking - is the big difference from the past that the larger hole is covered by washer then torqued down by the post? Versus past when they had no washer so there was less area of movement on the playfield?

If you look at those older playfields they are worn on the area of the post - if there was a bigger hole and a washer would the wear circle be bigger?

Of course I would certainly say the new digital printing/ clear coats are way different today.

SOMEONE out there find a spacer sleeve to slip in the hole and then tighten down the post - see if it wears any better.

Completely agree. Yes the play in the post will irritate the surface but that is not the actual cause of the failure. These types of T-nuts have been used for many years. The surface they are mounted to is a different story. Making the holes smaller will help but definitely not fix or solve the issue.

I agree - it’s not one issue, it’s several. First - the digital print isn’t adhering as well as the old school screen print. Second - whatever clear they are using is WAY softer than Diamondplate was. Third - get rid of the art around the posts. And last - tight holes are always better than loose ones!

Stern still does the tight hole thing like BLY/WMS did - here’s a pic of my DP with a nut/washer removed:

0F4A65F8-C032-4CAF-9183-16A5CBFEF626 (resized).jpeg

If it ain’t tight, it ain’t right

See star post pooling with earlier games

The point of the washer is to reduce the pressure per area. And we saw the ripples on narrow posts and larger based posts as well. Washers aren’t an instigator.

Yes of course but only because that is the area of contact. Washers are a common fix used even on older pfs to give a wider base for stability and resistance to deforming the wood playfield.

They have already done that. Later runs of Star Wars (I have one made March 2021) had art removed away from posts.

Did the older games that had their complete runs before they started removing artwork around the posts ever have these problems? I know Ghostbusters had insert ghosting issues but I don't remember post pooling and chipping. If they did not have this issue, then what has changed?

At some point...maybe 2017 or so...we went from silk screened playfield art to digital printing of art. Why this caused so many problems has yet to be proven but it is almost definitely the reason for the issues.

Maybe the best solution pressurewise is a thrugoing nut?

Think something like this but with a wider base in the underside?

https://www.amazon.se/Kolst%C3%A5l-metrisk-g%C3%A4ngad-mutter-mutterf%C3%A4ste/dp/B075WXZ5XX/ref=asc_df_B075WXZ5XX/

If you dont want any pressure at all on the surface you can secure it on the underside

https://www.hoffmann-group.com/SE/sv/ravema/Sp%C3%A4nnteknik/Sp%C3%A4nnelement/Sp%C3%A4nndorn-f%C3%B6r-borrning-av-genomg%C3%A5ende-h%C3%A5l/p/370015

Somewhat exaggerated but the picture i found.
Just to get the idea.

Patiently waiting for Mandolorian playfield issues.

Hopefully, you’re going to be waiting a very long time, as Stern has seemed to fix them. We’ll see soon. Last 3 games no real isssues.

Tmnt had issues.

You definitely have an agenda, don't you?

I have had 3 new sterns in the last 4 months.
No pf issues of any kind with Stern. Other issues? Yes. All minor.

No agenda here. Stern QC is shit. My Elvira had 48v 50% disconnected, a bent ramp and other issues…

Well explain this .... oh don't bother when you said gnr had no flow , I knew new your opinion was irrelevant

Oh man… these pf are going to be bare wood in 2k plays.

To be fair , a lot of people don't have any playfield issues , I'm just disappointed how JJP is dealing with customers who have had issues .

I opened a case for a defective playfield on my Wonka, and they sent me a blank replacement playfield. Do you need more proof of admission than that?

Read again... without your foregone conclusions in the mix. Doing something in response is not the same as 'admitting fault' or acknowledging a widespread problem. There are specific reasons why they don't make such public statements.

OK, then please provide me with a "reasonable" explanation as to why JJP would send a blank replacement playfield in response to a warranty claim for a defective playfield.

Customer: Your restaurant’s cheeseburger gave me food poisoning.
Restaurant: we’re sorry for your inconvenience, the next time you and your family are here, the meals are on the house.

Is different from:

Restaurant: we’re sorry you got sick. A lot of customers got food poisoning that day because a cook wasn’t washing his hands. The next meal is on us.

A better example.

Restaurant: Here's your cheeseburger.

Me: It's raw. See? Bloody red on the inside. Not done. I don't want it.

Restaurant: OK, we'll make you a new one.

In that example, the waiter doesn't admit anything either. But it's pretty obvious that the maker of the cheeseburger is at fault. At least I believe most reasonable people would see that.

You’ve made the point here which is also the first example I wrote. In both, you’ve kept the customer happy without admitting any wrong-doing. We arrived at the same place.

I am not the least bit happy with a bare playfield replacement.

the same things you quoted two messages ago - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/continued-playfield-issues-with-jjp-and-stern/page/174#post-6329007

If you don't get it by now - we aren't going to convince you. Providing customer satisfaction is not the same thing as admitting fault or systematic issues. Companies walk a fine line for very specific reasons... and why the first goto is "we will handle things on a case by case basis..."

Would say the same of JJP if they hadn’t had all their PF issues on their last 3 or 4 games. So how is that an agenda? GNR is a beautiful looking PF when it doesn’t look like crap from all the problems. Mirco does a good looking PF.

See above explanation: GNR has a nice looking PF when it doesn’t look like crap from all the issues. Still stand by GNR has crappy flow. Play it and you’ll see what I mean.

(Take a look at how I jumped all over Stern for their lazy lack of Munsters Code. Jumped harder on them about that than anything I’ve ever said about JJP. I got thread ejected and down voted because of my stance on Stern/Dwight’s almost criminal treatment of Munsters code.)

When Stern has issues, I equally jump all over them too. No favorites here, but when they do well I say good things, just like I’d do for JJP when/if they ever get their act together. I buy from both companies.

If Stern has a PF issue they stand behind it and offer a free replacement in their warranty. JJP does not, which is completely unacceptable. How can we continue to be a buyers for this kind of poor treatment as customers? We wouldn’t stand for it from any other consumer goods.

(Munsters shameful lazy lacking code effort by Stern is appalling.)

TMNT issues were fuzzy printing on some first Pros, which Stern replaced all PFs with those issues. TMNT did not have cracking, pooling, chipping, like JJPs last four titles, with more expected on Toy Story, unless they change JJP printing artwork techniques and post hole engineering.

Just not true Jimmy. You are just making shit up now. Lol

I’ve purchased as many Sterns since 2013 as anybody

But I do agree, you rag on everybody without all the facts.

Thanks Icy, but how is anything I’ve said not factual, that’s not opinion based?
Not making anything up that isn’t opinion.

JJP last 3 or 4 games PFs have plenty of photos as fact to back that up.
Stern’s lack of Munsters code is factual too.
All the facts there, nothing made up. Come on, you just don’t like I’ve ragged on poor GNR game play with zero mechs in the game. Included links to JJP GNR manual as proof of that, again factual. Poor gameplay with no flow, check the GNR layout and MB heaven code…both factual. GNR Box of lights and sounds being outstanding, well that is factual too! Get your facts straight Icey, lol. (I get you want to not face facts about GNR, because you own it.)

(Mom said for you to call me, James or Jim, only she can call me Jimmy, lol)

Tmnt did have some pooling on a few LEs and pros. Pics are in the thread.

CPR has been making digitally printed playfields for ~3 years now.

I have not had a single customer tell me that the ink has been lifted off with the clear or pooled up around the posts.

CPR has not had to remove the artwork from around the posts.

CPR has not had to make their mini-post holes smaller.

CPR has not had to tell customers to put giant metal washers under the posts.

If there ever was an acid-test, it would have to be the Rolling Stones CPR playfield with the 2 posts directly in front of the flippers, right?
stones010-1200x800 (resized).jpg

You focus on one aspect of the pf and ignore all of the other things that get screwed into it and go on top of it

I love my Stern pins but quality wise there is a lot of “junk” plastic and lack of quality all over it.

IMDN was a piece of junk. I could pick it up with one hand and spin it on my finger. I don’t know how many times I had to take that Sarco mech and captive balls apart, along with the back box subway. Parts fell apart in your hands.

My Elvira Haunted House took all kinds of tweaking and gluing to get it solid. The Dead Head crypt board is gone. The lock mech is pure crap and also needs adjustment
On every game. I still love the game!

I’ve got some minor pooling on my STH. Should I go down the list of things that had to be re worked, replaced and tweaked?

AIQ has had its issues too for me. But it and JP have been the most solid thus far

It’s part of pinball and doesn’t stop me from having a blast. One goes down, I play another until it gets fixed

Let’s put it ALL in perspective here

Incredible bad luck on all your games. I’ve purchased most the same games with no issues as you’ve described. Stern needs to take a hard look at any game before they send it your way, as they are most always going to be a disaster from the sounds of it. Must be in the Texas air? LA air is so polluted, Stern has pity on us and sends near perfect machines. Lol.

(Come on Icey, “Twirl IMDN machine on your figure?” Loooooooool! That’s factual I suppose, loooooooool!!)

All the issues you talk about are a 15 min tweak here, a 10 minute adjustment there. The PF is near impossible to replace (hundreds of hours) therefore will never get fixed. This is where the issue is. If you could replace a PF in 10 minutes we would be talking about how expensive pinball toppers are.