(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

4 years ago


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There are 9,207 posts in this topic. You are on page 173 of 185.
#8601 2 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

Does he have to own a GNR to come up with some statistics of bad playfields?

Not at all. I love statistics and i agree with him that a super majority of owners will have an issue. I was commenting on his pursuit to start a class action lawsuit. That should be left for owners to decide.

#8602 2 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Guess I wasn't clear, I agree that JJP has to back every component they ship to a customer, according to their warranty, but I don't think it's their job to solve the problems their suppliers are having. Sure, it's in JJP's best interest to do all they can to help their suppliers if they can.
Mirco has a large business outside of JJP. Seems like their non JJP playfields should have similar problems.

they do.

#8603 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

You are one of the lucky few that won the JJP PF lotto. Reported by many of us DI owners (and owners of POTC, WW, and now GNR): they are loaded with pooling, cracking, chipping and not just dimpling, but some cratering too. Tragic on such expensive toys and once thought to be collectibles.

Everyone knows your trolling for Stern by now,so there's no need to pretend your so concerned.

#8604 2 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

can possibly buy back all the LE's affected

They only have to offer the buy back, doesn't mean people will take them up on it, and as most likely, those who really like the game will hang on to it. And if it earns well, operators are gladly going to take it off your hands at MSRP, or maybe even above it if it REALY earns well.

I would love to know what the split right now is on GnR between HUO and location play. How many LE's are being operated and earning as opposed to sitting idle most of the day at home?

#8605 2 years ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Everyone knows your trolling for Stern by now,so there's no need to pretend your so concerned.

If the JJP PF issues weren’t so tragically true, your Stern joke might be funny.

#8606 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

If the JJP PF issues weren’t so tragically true, your Stern joke might be funny.

Stern has ruined my life and joy of nib pinball.

#8607 2 years ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Stern has ruined my life and joy of nib pinball.

Wow way to start the weekend on a high note!

#8608 2 years ago

<blockquote

Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Stern has ruined my life and joy of nib pinball.

You’re probably a lot of fun at parties.

#8609 2 years ago
Quoted from Jaybird815:

<blockquote

You’re probably a lot of fun at parties.

Or funerals, not sure which.

#8610 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

They only have to offer the buy back, doesn't mean people will take them up on it, and as most likely, those who really like the game will hang on to it. And if it earns well, operators are gladly going to take it off your hands at MSRP, or maybe even above it if it REALY earns well.
I would love to know what the split right now is on GnR between HUO and location play. How many LE's are being operated and earning as opposed to sitting idle most of the day at home?

My guess they won't offer buy backs of LE's.....If u had a game with a bad play field why not? Get all your money back (+shipping) and just pick up a used one down the line. My guess is 90% are at home getting little play versus being on route somewhere. Route operators probably don't care as much as home collectors.

#8611 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Wow way to start the weekend on a high note!

#8612 2 years ago
Quoted from Jaybird815:

<blockquote

You’re probably a lot of fun at parties.

I guess nobody saw my want ad. Lol. Have a great weekend.

11
#8613 2 years ago

Being a pinball collector is kinda like being a drug addict. Your dealer shorts you or gives you bad stuff you forgive them and go back for more cause you need the yam yam.

#8614 2 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

In theory yes, but sometimes rich business owners have a deep-rooted desire to keep things going long past the point of no financial return.

Like DeepRoot? I think yelo is on in that, as he knows all about rich guys with too much money.

#8615 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Like DeepRoot? I think yelo is on in that, as he knows all about rich guys with too much money.

Not really but I do know how I spend my money is typically my business and decision.

#8616 2 years ago

I am such a sh*t poster. The companies will fix this issue and make the customers whole.
193934476_10165387320310506_650323401090820679_n (resized).jpg193934476_10165387320310506_650323401090820679_n (resized).jpg

#8617 2 years ago

Agree with you. Been wondering why people wouldn’t take the buy back if offered? You have chipping and peeling of the playfield art and it looks pretty bad in the pics I’ve seen. Why would you want to keep that game? Is it because they think someone in the secondary market would really want to pay a higher price for this game? I wouldn’t touch it personally, mainly because it could get worse. Is it because they think jjp will offer them new playfields in the future? If it were me, I’d take them up on the offer and go find a nice LE in the secondary market. Maybe I don’t understand because I’m not much into the exclusivity club. I bought the LE because I just wanted a full feature game and didn’t care that I was X out of 500.

Not sure how they could justify only buying back CEs if an LE or SE looked just as bad. The warranties are the same across games I think, even though they don’t mention playfields.

Quoted from PtownPin:

My guess they won't offer buy backs of LE's.....If u had a game with a bad play field why not? Get all your money back (+shipping) and just pick up a used one down the line. My guess is 90% are at home getting little play versus being on route somewhere. Route operators probably don't care as much as home collectors.

#8618 2 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Been wondering why people wouldn’t take the buy back if offered?

People have. Then JJP ghosted them until they just sold their game instead. Haha

#8619 2 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Agree with you. Been wondering why people wouldn’t take the buy back if offered? You have chipping and peeling of the playfield art and it looks pretty bad in the pics I’ve seen. Why would you want to keep that game? Is it because they think someone in the secondary market would really want to pay a higher price for this game? I wouldn’t touch it personally, mainly because it could get worse. Is it because they think jjp will offer them new playfields in the future? If it were me, I’d take them up on the offer and go find a nice LE in the secondary market. Maybe I don’t understand because I’m not much into the exclusivity club. I bought the LE because I just wanted a full feature game and didn’t care that I was X out of 500.
Not sure how they could justify only buying back CEs if an LE or SE looked just as bad. The warranties are the same across games I think, even though they don’t mention playfields.

The buy back option for a CE is pretty shrewd. JJP knows that the market value of that game is far above MSRP, which means their pretty certain that owners won't take the deal. If they did JJP would just fix the game and pawn it off to one of its distributors. My guess is they will NEVER offer buy backs on LE's or SE's, because the risk is far too great on JJP's end. Whats wholesale on a new play field?....maybe $300-400 /unit? Buybacks on LE's or SE's would be the dumbest financial decision JJP has ever made

#8620 2 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

The buy back option for a CE is pretty shrewd.

I'm not so sure, if this ever went to court a lawyer would argue that this buy back offer is essentially an admission on JJPs part that there is a know manufacturing defect.

#8621 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I'm not so sure, if this ever went to court a lawyer would argue that this buy back offer is essentially an admission on JJPs part that there is a know manufacturing defect.

Not at all. You would have to prove it is a widespread problem and negligence on jjp's part. You would then have to come up with a diminished value which would be difficult in this market. This is more like a lemon law or really anything you buy and very unhappy with.

#8622 2 years ago

Why would JJP ever offer a buy back option? It would cost them $800-$900 just in shipping charges (reimbursement + return shipping). It just makes zero sense financially when they can provide a play field for $400 and call it good. I'm not saying thats a great option, but we all know from history that satisfied most people who were impacted.

#8623 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I'm not so sure, if this ever went to court a lawyer would argue that this buy back offer is essentially an admission on JJPs part that there is a know manufacturing defect.

That is a false narrative. An offer to refund the customers money is not an admission of a problem, nor could a lawyer argue that it was. It is a resolution offered in good faith to make the customer whole. What people keep forgetting is the courts don't care about how much you wanted the item, or that you want it without defects. If the company offers a full refund, this is the penultimate remedy, with the ultimate remedy being a full refund plus interest and damages, and that is the most the lawyers will be able to get out of them. Again, it comes down to does the product function as required to perform the task it is sold to perform. Defects or not, it still plays a game of pinball, and that is just the plain bare facts that govern this. All they have to "admit" is that these defects are part of their own acceptable quality standard on playfield performance and thats the end of it, and they are well within their rights to do so. I'm no lawyer, but anyone who has taken Business Law 101 can tell you they cover these situations explicitly, and their is plenty of case law to back up JJP.

#8624 2 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Why would JJP ever offer a buy back option? It would cost them $800-$900 just in shipping charges (reimbursement + return shipping). It just makes zero sense financially when they can provide a play field for $400 and call it good. I'm not saying thats a great option, but we all know from history that satisfied most people who were impacted.

Your argument makes sense if JJP can actually provide a good playfield. It doesn’t seem like that’s the case for now, at least consistently.

#8625 2 years ago

Sides split with laughter. Good work Cary!

#8626 2 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Why would JJP ever offer a buy back option? It would cost them $800-$900 just in shipping charges (reimbursement + return shipping). It just makes zero sense financially when they can provide a play field for $400 and call it good. I'm not saying thats a great option, but we all know from history that satisfied most people who were impacted.

I think the problem is there is no way to verify actual damage. Easy to get pics of another game, maybe one on route, to grab free pf. Once some people get a new pf, everyone expects a new pf even if there is barely any pooling. Even if you pass out pf's like candy, those pf's are going to have issues and people will demand another replacement. It never ends. Many are not going to be satisfied until their game is "fixed".

#8627 2 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

I think the problem is there is no way to verify actual damage. Easy to get pics of another game, maybe one on route, to grab free pf. Once some people get a new pf, everyone expects a new pf even if there is barely any pooling. Even if you pass out pf's like candy, those pf's are going to have issues and people will demand another replacement. It never ends. Many are not going to be satisfied until their game is "fixed".

I hear what your saying, but I doubt that will happen as 99% of the owners will never do the play field swap and the extra play field will sit in the box until they decide to sell the game. All the extra play field does it help recoup some of the loses owners might take on a resale. Quite frankly providing play fields to affected owners is the only realistic solution as the buy back option will never happen.

#8628 2 years ago
Quoted from Spelunk71:

Your argument makes sense if JJP can actually provide a good playfield. It doesn’t seem like that’s the case for now, at least consistently.

So were the extra play fields on WW and POTC good? My bet is 99% of the owners have no idea if it is or isn't as it just sits in a box.

#8629 2 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

I think the problem is there is no way to verify actual damage. Easy to get pics of another game, maybe one on route, to grab free pf. Once some people get a new pf, everyone expects a new pf even if there is barely any pooling. Even if you pass out pf's like candy, those pf's are going to have issues and people will demand another replacement. It never ends. Many are not going to be satisfied until their game is "fixed".

Just so you know, the playfield is stamped at the back, in a difficult spot to get a picture of, i was asked to send a picture of it by barry engler, plus the picture of my serial number tag on the back of my cabinet

#8630 2 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

I think the problem is there is no way to verify actual damage. Easy to get pics of another game, maybe one on route, to grab free pf. Once some people get a new pf, everyone expects a new pf even if there is barely any pooling. Even if you pass out pf's like candy, those pf's are going to have issues and people will demand another replacement. It never ends. Many are not going to be satisfied until their game is "fixed".

I mean, I'm sure victims would be glad to send video of their game, with serial #, maybe a dated newspaper with current events, requested note in the video...

It's not hard to prove things.

#8631 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I'm not so sure, if this ever went to court a lawyer would argue that this buy back offer is essentially an admission on JJPs part that there is a know manufacturing defect.

No they’d just say it was a way to apease a customer and provide closure.

When a business has a customer that just can’t be satisfied… giving them their money back and jusr severing the transaction is the most complete way to just say “fine please leave”

#8632 2 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Why would JJP ever offer a buy back option? It would cost them $800-$900 just in shipping charges (reimbursement + return shipping). It just makes zero sense financially when they can provide a play field for $400 and call it good. I'm not saying thats a great option, but we all know from history that satisfied most people who were impacted.

Unless hou give a playfield… and customer still isn’t happy because the new playfield has similar issues.

A bare pf has shown to be not enough. A populated pf is expensive… but i agree a buyback aint cheap! But it is final…

#8633 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

No they’d just say it was a way to apease a customer and provide closure.
When a business has a customer that just can’t be satisfied… giving them their money back and jusr severing the transaction is the most complete way to just say “fine please leave”

Those pesky customers not wanting a defective playfield that can’t be fixed. The nerve of some people.

#8634 2 years ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

Just so you know, the playfield is stamped at the back, in a difficult spot to get a picture of, i was asked to send a picture of it by barry engler, plus the picture of my serial number tag on the back of my cabinet

What's stopping you from taking a pictures of damage from a different game on location and serial number tags on your game? It's not like you can get one picture with the serial numbers and pf damage together.

#8635 2 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

What's stopping you from taking a pictures of damage from a different game on location and serial number tags on your game? It's not like you can get one picture with the serial numbers and pf damage together.

Just make a video and tell them you are pissed off while you are doing it!!!

#8636 2 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

What's stopping you from taking a pictures of damage from a different game on location and serial number tags on your game? It's not like you can get one picture with the serial numbers and pf damage together.

Very simple, you give a cc for hold until the old one is sent back. I would do it.

#8637 2 years ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

Those pesky customers not wanting a defective playfield that can’t be fixed. The nerve of some people.

Nice snark - but unrelated to the actual conversation thread. So ... *yawn*

#8639 2 years ago

Is this the worst pooling/chipping you guys have seen yet?

3D5A4012-57C3-4124-A514-9C6B27852118 (resized).jpeg3D5A4012-57C3-4124-A514-9C6B27852118 (resized).jpeg
#8640 2 years ago
Quoted from greeneye:

Is this the worst pooling/chipping you guys have seen yet?

Nah, gotta have bare wood to top GnR.

#8641 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Nice snark - but unrelated to the actual conversation thread. So ... *yawn*

I quoted your post that was full of snark. Too funny. Some people have zero self awareness these days………

-1
#8642 2 years ago

These polls are BS. People need to be honest and while most are, something like this brings out the worst in the community. People that do not own a game vote, people that are pissed at JJP get their friends to vote that their game is shit and they are not even in the hobby.

#8643 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

These polls are BS. People need to be honest and while most are, something like this brings out the worst in the community. People that do not own a game vote, people that are pissed at JJP get their friends to vote that their game is shit and they are not even in the hobby.

Then so far 61 of jjp employees dont have chipping playfields
But 41 jjp hater friends do have chipping
By your logic the supporters will go lie also

#8644 2 years ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

I quoted your post that was full of snark. Too funny. Some people have zero self awareness these days………

It wasn't snark - it was reality. The 'give their money back' solution is not a admittance of fault - it is the most direct way to simply undo a business relationship and reset to zero.

The actual conversation was if buy-backs open them up to some other liability - they don't. You can simply say it is a way of appeasing an unsatisified (or unsatisfiable) customer. You give them their money back and part ways.

Your response added nothing to that conversation.

#8645 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

It wasn't snark - it was reality. The 'give their money back' solution is not a admittance of fault - it is the most direct way to simply undo a business relationship and reset to zero.
The actual conversation was if buy-backs open them up to some other liability - they don't. You can simply say it is a way of appeasing an unsatisified (or unsatisfiable) customer. You give them their money back and part ways.
Your response added nothing to that conversation.

Except for the fact that they've already admitted there's a problem by offering warranty play fields in the past.

#8646 2 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Except for the fact that they've already admitted there's a problem by offering warranty play fields in the past.

True, but the ultimate legal solution for JJP is to simply provide a 100% refund +shipping costs. My guess is there is almost ZERO chance they will offer this to LE or SE owners.

#8647 2 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

True, but the ultimate legal solution for JJP is to simply provide a 100% refund +shipping costs. My guess is there is almost ZERO chance they will offer this to LE or SE owners.

Even if they had the same warranty in place at the time of purchase? This kind of preferential (discriminatory) treatment could get them in hot water by a bunch of SE and LE owners if the offer is extended to one group of customers (CE owners) but not the other.

#8648 2 years ago

They’ve already offered the buyback to at least one SE owner

#8649 2 years ago

Buyback?

More like bareback!!! Am I right?!?!

#8650 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Even if they had the same warranty in place at the time of purchase? This kind of preferential (discriminatory) treatment could get them in hot water by a bunch of SE and LE owners if the offer is extended to one group of customers (CE owners) but not the other.

Not disagreeing, but it would be a terribly stupid move on JJP's part when they can probably get away with providing other remedies that are far cheaper.

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