(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

2 years ago


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There are 8,995 posts in this topic. You are on page 164 of 180.
#8151 1 year ago

I get it to a point - but JJP refusing to do anything other than provide washers on a 12,500 game is incredible (and that they are getting away with it)

#8152 1 year ago
820E47CF-E051-4CF2-86A1-5D049A2B7A04.gif
#8153 1 year ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

That image is from the GNR owners thread
Did anybody really think the quality assurance post was worth anything?

I didn't believe in it, especially coming from Mirco, a known blame shifter. I was just willing to give it a chance to see how things played out. Just seems like more proof of the digital printing issue.

#8154 1 year ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Did anybody really think the quality assurance post was worth anything?

It is worth about as much as an ISO mark! The ink that was used to create it.

#8155 1 year ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

Wish i was in Illinois, i would have drove my game over to them in person. It would have been very unpleasant for them.

If you mean Metallica, yes, its and original run LE. If you mean GNRLE, this was mine before i sold it.

03E3E2B5-9E2B-47C9-8EEA-17C1A3ACB929 (resized).jpeg0C2458E8-2323-4985-962B-DEE1CCFC118B (resized).jpeg54D75F9B-9200-4356-A95D-23C29CC8A7D5 (resized).jpeg
#8156 1 year ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Per Kaneda, a fresh pic of a GNR CE. If I'm not mistaken all the CE's got the "quality assurance" post under the apron, plus the "bad batch" issue was sorted for CE as well, right? Looks like the issue remains. BTW no PF replacement for this poor soul[quoted image]

Do they all use the same company to make these playfields?

#8157 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

Do they all use the same company to make these playfields?

Yes. Mirco.

#8158 1 year ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

Do they all use the same company to make these playfields?

No, Stern uses a combination of playfield manufacturers while JJP just Mirco.

The picture that Kaneda posted is from a December build CE. We've seen at least one other December build CE posted with chipping / pooling and it was confirmed by the owner that the game didn't ship with factory washers. We haven't seen widespread reports of pooling / chipping since around January when JJP started including washers from the factory. Did anything else change with the playfields around that time? Who knows.

#8159 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

No, Stern uses a combination of playfield manufacturers while JJP just Mirco.
The picture that Kaneda posted is from a December build CE. We've seen at least one other December build CE posted with chipping / pooling and it was confirmed by the owner that the game didn't ship with factory washers. We haven't seen widespread reports of pooling / chipping since around January when JJP started including washers from the factory. Did anything else change with the playfields around that time? Who knows.

I have an April 2021 build, and while the pooling isn't there like the original 100 LE's that were built, mostly due in part to the factory clear washers they are now using...the problem has not been fixed. I know a bunch of people who have PM'd me and we all have common wear/pooling/art missing spots. The key other areas on GNR are the two pop posts with small washers and the post right above the inlane divider and the post on the top of the playfield near the lock lane

I am convinced that until JJP changes their art printing as Stern did, by removing art from the posts, and /or putting larger clear washers, this issue will never end under the current allowed Clear formulas/process. Or until hey do a Haggis and go acrylic hardtop. Or sneak a peak at American Pinball or Spooky methodology

Every CE that went out the door had either the "new" Mirco process done to it as my LE did and all LE's being built right now. Sure there will be those that say...My playfield is perfect...okay, say that after 500-1000 games.

There hasn't been enough wear testing on certain other problem areas of GNR and I bet I could go to everyone with a new game right now and point to areas that will either start to pool and bunch up or already have started.

Don't know what the solution is except calling out the problems in public

This is from my April build. and here is my fix for just one of the areas I mentioned above...the other areas were similar. The washer below was sunk into the playfield from overtorquing
20210504_011057 (resized).jpg20210504_015904 (resized).jpg

26
#8160 1 year ago

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vsmbkpw (resized).jpg

#8161 1 year ago

Also take into account this first photo is way zoomed in...I'm monitoring and will most likely apply a washer fix to as well. The posts and washers near the left loop orbit entrance. Again, new April build under new Micro process

The playfield does look great overall and most posts appear fine with no pooling, just sone assembly line over tightening and incorrect washer choice in some of these areas.. Along with the clear technique in use.

20210506_113740 (resized).jpg

This is the same post at a slightly different angle, not zoomed in... You can see how light, and distance plays a part.

If you're looking for pooling, you may find it

But most people who just play and don't look at OCD levels well be fine with maybe a couple washer fixes along the way.

I'm not defending or taking sides... Merely posting my findings.

Although I would pay $$$ for a JJP Acrylic or the like, playfield to not have to worry about these issues.

At the end of the day, it is pinball and our machines like all of us are falling apart the minute they are born.
Screenshot_20210506-115753_Gallery (resized).jpg

#8162 1 year ago
Quoted from underlord:

If I was to buy a Stern or JJP NIB, and that’s a miracle-IF, I’d pay with a credit card. Don’t wanna fix it? Talk to Morgan Chase.

Agreed.
The number of buyers who pay via bank transfer to save 3% or so is baffling.

#8163 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Agreed.
The number of buyers who pay via bank transfer to save 3% or so is baffling.

$375 on a $12,500 CE ain't nothin'...hell that's shipping. Just because we buy overpriced nonessential toys doesn't mean we throw our money away! Sorta.

#8164 1 year ago

The whole washer thing just seems like complete insanity. We are seeing this manifest itself months later anywhere that something touches the playfield where there is art. A washer just spreads that contact out over more surface area. It seems like it just slows down or delays the issue. I would not be surprised that if in 10 years all the areas with high ball contact just start letting go. Some of these playfields are going to look like those cars (was it Chevy?) that got a bad batch of primer and all of them the paint just fell off after a few years.

I do know Vid is kidding around.

#8165 1 year ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

At the end of the day, it is pinball and our machines like all of us are falling apart the minute they are born.

Way to stay positive

#8166 1 year ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Some of these playfields are going to look like those cars (was it Chevy?) that got a bad batch of primer and all of them the paint just fell off after a few years.

You mean like this?

572F1038-7426-43DB-BF86-7E3EAB12DD6D (resized).jpegB4126479-8631-4ED8-BFF7-72AFCE155908 (resized).jpeg
#8167 1 year ago

Just add a washer to that, it will be fine...

#8168 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Just add a washer to that, it will be fine...

Exactly. Car still drives, right? Still works mechanically, right? Send it.

#whatafuckingjoke

#8169 1 year ago

Data point...people said POTC was going to look like those Chevy's, and they don't. The chipping remained at the posts and hidden under washers, and the games are worth more than ever.

#8170 1 year ago

Imagine getting sent a pint of paint and some mylar crap from Ford, GM, etc for a terrible paint / clearcoat job after dropping $20k+ on a car. That would never fly.

Also, people are sick and tired of hearing about washers, seeing washers installed from the factory, getting sent washers, etc. It's a band aid for a manufacture defect that still hasn't been fixed.

15
#8171 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Data point...people said POTC was going to look like those Chevy's, and they don't. The chipping remained at the posts and hidden under washers, and the games are worth more than ever.

Why do you continue to diminish the issue? Are you being paid to do this? I can't think of one reasonable person who would support the assertion that peeling/pooling/chipping artwork is acceptable on a brand-new pinball machine, not one. Even the manufacturers have admitted the fault (by sending replacement fields and adding shit like washers).

This is a serious problem, and it requires serious attention. Stop trying to make light of the issue; some of us are pretty pissed off that our $10,000 got us defective merchandise.

/rant

#8172 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Data point...people said POTC was going to look like those Chevy's, and they don't. The chipping remained at the posts and hidden under washers, and the games are worth more than ever.

Those games are worth more then ever in part because they are very rare. If JJP reruns Pirates any model with pooling / chipping will tank in value.

No more washer excuses or using blow dryers to flatten pooling or whatever. People are sick of it!

#8173 1 year ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Why anyone is buying NIB at this point is beyond me. WTF

Because people can’t help themselves. They must buy the latest theme! And they know it.

The only power people have in this game is not buying into it, but they can’t even manage that.

#8174 1 year ago
Quoted from Darscot:

The whole washer thing just seems like complete insanity. We are seeing this manifest itself months later anywhere that something touches the playfield where there is art. A washer just spreads that contact out over more surface area. It seems like it just slows down or delays the issue. I would not be surprised that if in 10 years all the areas with high ball contact just start letting go. Some of these playfields are going to look like those cars (was it Chevy?) that got a bad batch of primer and all of them the paint just fell off after a few years.
I do know Vid is kidding around.

Clearly the answer is fitting bigger and bigger washers until the entire playfield is a sheet of metal.

-18
#8175 1 year ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Why do you continue to diminish the issue? Are you being paid to do this? I can't think of one reasonable person who would support the assertion that peeling/pooling/chipping artwork is acceptable on a brand-new pinball machine, not one. Even the manufacturers have admitted the fault (by sending replacement fields and adding shit like washers).
This is a serious problem, and it requires serious attention. Stop trying to make light of the issue; some of us are pretty pissed off that our $10,000 got us defective merchandise.
/rant

I do it specifically to piss you off.

#8176 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Those games are worth more then ever in part because they are very rare. If JJP reruns Pirates any model with pooling / chipping will tank in value.

Why would they re-run it? Guns blows it away and I expect they have a great pipeline of titles to come.

-3
#8177 1 year ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

This is a serious problem, and it requires serious attention. Stop trying to make light of the issue; some of us are pretty pissed off that our $10,000 got us defective merchandise.
/rant

Want to know what I think? You're addicted to the rage. You love having this axe to grind.

Prices are up right now and you could sell your game+PF for every dime you've put into it.
You've had the super-generous Yelobird offer to do the swap for you.

And yet here you are, bitching and bitching and bitching and bitching.

You don't want a solution.

#8178 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Want to know what I think? You're addicted to the rage. You love having this axe to grind.
Prices are up right now and you could sell your game+PF for every dime you've put into it.
You've had the super-generous Yelobird offer to do the swap for you.
And yet here you are, bitching and bitching and bitching and bitching.
You don't want a solution.

Have you ever considered the fact that I don't WANT to sell my game? I just want it to be defect free. Jersey can provide that solution by giving me what I asked for: a populated playfield swap.

Yelobird's offer was nice, but you know damn well that offer requires money be paid for time spent. Even if he wouldn't accept it, I would still feel compelled to pay money somewhere - likely a donation to pinside. I wouldn't ask any one who doesn't work for JJP to swap the field on my game without paying them. Because I believe in doing what's right by others. You know, like what JJP should be doing for this problem.

Please just stop diminishing people's damage and concerns and actually show a little compassion and empathy.

#8179 1 year ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Please just stop diminishing people's damage and concerns and actually show a little compassion and empathy.

I do have empathy. I feel quite badly that you're having such an unhappy time with your game.
What I don't get is why you hang in there. It seems to me your unhappiness is far exceeding any joy you're getting from it.

I never see any gameplay posts, scores, strategy questions...just playfield complaints coupled with disdain for people who are buying new games and enjoying them.

#8180 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

$375 on a $12,500 CE ain't nothin'...hell that's shipping. Just because we buy overpriced nonessential toys doesn't mean we throw our money away! Sorta.

$375 in exchange for zero buyer protection.
We all know that if we have an expensive problem with one of our machines, in most cases, the distributor won’t do squat.

#8181 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

$375 in exchange for zero buyer protection.
We all know that if we have an expensive problem with one of our machines, in most cases, the distributor won’t do squat.

I tend to disagree. Any issues I have had to deal with on new and even old games my distributor has professionally and to my liking dealt with. Granted I don't call because a ball is stuck or I see a dimple in my playfield but in general they have always been a valuable support for me.

#8182 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I tend to disagree. Any issues I have had to deal with on new and even old games my distributor has professionally and to my liking dealt with. Granted I don't call because a ball is stuck or I see a dimple in my playfield but in general they have always been a valuable support for me.

Now you have to tell us who your distributor is...

#8183 1 year ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Now you have to tell us who your distributor is...

Proudly! They Earned it! #Kingpingames or if he is out #Flipnoutpinball. Both Christopher and Zach have always been honest, fair, and supportive. Don't need to be a power buyer with either just give them the opportunity to Earn your business and they do so with no concern. Easy as it gets.

#8184 1 year ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Have you ever considered the fact that I don't WANT to sell my game? I just want it to be defect free. Jersey can provide that solution by giving me what I asked for: a populated playfield swap.
Yelobird's offer was nice, but you know damn well that offer requires money be paid for time spent. Even if he wouldn't accept it, I would still feel compelled to pay money somewhere - likely a donation to pinside. I wouldn't ask any one who doesn't work for JJP to swap the field on my game without paying them. Because I believe in doing what's right by others. You know, like what JJP should be doing for this problem.
Please just stop diminishing people's damage and concerns and actually show a little compassion and empathy.

If you bring your populated playfield to me with the replacement, I'll do it for you for free and I'll do it in a week and a half for you.

I'd just ask to keep the old playfield as payment.

#8185 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Proudly! They Earned it! #Kingpingames or if he is out #Flipnoutpinball. Both Christopher and Zach have always been honest, fair, and supportive. Don't need to be a power buyer with either just give them the opportunity to Earn your business and they do so with no concern. Easy as it gets.

That’s great.
I wonder how they would handle a chipping JJP playfield today.

#8186 1 year ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

Also take into account this first photo is way zoomed in...I'm monitoring and will most likely apply a washer fix to as well. The posts and washers near the left loop orbit entrance. Again, new April build under new Micro process
The playfield does look great overall and most posts appear fine with no pooling, just sone assembly line over tightening and incorrect washer choice in some of these areas.. Along with the clear technique in use.
[quoted image]
This is the same post at a slightly different angle, not zoomed in... You can see how light, and distance plays a part.
If you're looking for pooling, you may find it
But most people who just play and don't look at OCD levels well be fine with maybe a couple washer fixes along the way.
I'm not defending or taking sides... Merely posting my findings.
Although I would pay $$$ for a JJP Acrylic or the like, playfield to not have to worry about these issues.
At the end of the day, it is pinball and our machines like all of us are falling apart the minute they are born.
[quoted image]

I feel for you. Thanks for sharing. I admire the fact that you are staying positive, it is the best way to achieve a happy outcome.

#8187 1 year ago

Agree washers is not the solution!
Fix the F problem and give customer the respect needed.
There is solutions to this. It’s as usual all about money.

Can’t understand people who just don’t care. Yes it’s pinball and the ball is hard flying around. Still a manufacturing issue.

Unpopulated playfield is also wrong. 80% never gets installed.
New car with broken engine. Oh let’s send a new so the customer can change it by himself.

Pictures Stern Lord
One solution?

3566658D-2DEF-41A7-B5C6-BEAB19D63F2A.pngFBAD396B-2568-4B20-B2B8-DB7B504EFE2A.png
#8188 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Proudly! They Earned it! #Kingpingames or if he is out #Flipnoutpinball. Both Christopher and Zach have always been honest, fair, and supportive. Don't need to be a power buyer with either just give them the opportunity to Earn your business and they do so with no concern. Easy as it gets.

I have not used either but will give them a shot next time. I will have to look into the state tax side of this though.

#8189 1 year ago

Isn't JJP's new policy that they will buy the game back? Sell that shitty work back to them... They are still making games. Yea, you might have to wait but you will have a brand new blemish free game. I agree they have process issues but at least you will not have a game that is getting blown out and worth dick down the road. Just my $.02 if its really rubbing ya the wrong way.

oh wait...are these issues on a CE??? That would be some BS if they don't make it right so my above statement would not really be an option I guess (potential $$$ loss). Sorry, haven't been in this thread for over a year and just read the last page...

#8190 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I do have empathy. I feel quite badly that you're having such an unhappy time with your game.
What I don't get is why you hang in there. It seems to me your unhappiness is far exceeding any joy you're getting from it.
I never see any gameplay posts, scores, strategy questions...just playfield complaints coupled with disdain for people who are buying new games and enjoying them.

You nailed i, finally.

I sold my POS POTC CE at a profit, which was of course pure luck in the end, and I will never touch a JJP again. And they have no-one but Mirco and Joe Newhart to blame, these two ruined an otherwise positive experience for me.

#8191 1 year ago

JJP said they would buy my game back, they never followed through, after 6 weeks of waiting i gave up and sold it myself. I know of at least 5 others that were offered the same thing, i dont know of one that actually got the buy back.

#8192 1 year ago

FE70132E-3518-46FB-932A-90C3B08DBB34 (resized).png

When you buy a JJP game this is the kind of crap you will deal with, my emails with them started as a ticket all the way back in December, this email is from march 5th, 4 months of getting no where.

#8193 1 year ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

[quoted image]
When you buy a JJP game this is the kind of crap you will deal with, my emails with them started as a ticket all the way back in December, this email is from march 5th, 4 months of getting no where.

Thanks very much for sharing your info. Appreciate it.

#8194 1 year ago

After i sell my game and let them know, just one last kick in my balls, im told great news! I watch these threads on pinside of chipping pooling playfields and mechanical issues yet JJP is still selling plenty of games. SMFH.

2E93C040-B1B1-42DC-A9CF-96874536A463 (resized).png
#8195 1 year ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

After i sell my game and let them know, just one last kick in my balls, im told great news! I watch these threads on pinside of chipping pooling playfields and mechanical issues yet JJP is still selling plenty of games. SMFH.
[quoted image]

Do you have the equivalent of small claims court over there? In the UK you can basically file a claim against an entity for a nominal cost (equates to a couple of hundred dollars) which then legally burdens the other party with resolving the matter or ending up with a court judgement against them for the claimed value.

Those emails you received have a whiff of just stringing you along until you stop bothering them or accept whatever you can get from them.

#8196 1 year ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Do you have the equivalent of small claims court over there? In the UK you can basically file a claim against an entity for a nominal cost (equates to a couple of hundred dollars) which then legally burdens the other party with resolving the matter or ending up with a court judgement against them for the claimed value.
Those emails you received have a whiff of just stringing you along until you stop bothering them or accept whatever you can get from them.

They have small claims which limits at $5000usd
Plus if you take a company to small claims you have to do it in the court thats in the district their corporate offices are in, so in my case i would have to travel from NY TO CHICAGO, if i drove it would take 14 hours. I originally put in a service ticket with JJP in early december.

#8197 1 year ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

[quoted image]
When you buy a JJP game this is the kind of crap you will deal with, my emails with them started as a ticket all the way back in December, this email is from march 5th, 4 months of getting no where.

Wow. Screw that crap. What on earth are they doing over there?! You'd have to have balls of steel to wish to buy new from them, now. And that's coming from a guy that loves (loved) JJP.

#8198 1 year ago
Quoted from jorant:

Wow. Screw that crap. What on earth are they doing over there?! You'd have to have balls of steel to wish to buy new from them, now. And that's coming from a guy that loves (loved) JJP.

Me too, i was a huge supporter. No longer, i never intended to sell GNRLE, in fact i stated this to barry, my worry was what happens if the chipping starts happening in the middle of the playfield, i was already told no new playfield will be provided for defective ones. I brought this up during a phone conversation with barry and he said if that happens we can see what we can do to help you cover it up, but the company will no longer be sending out replacement playfields.

10
#8199 1 year ago

I was in the market for an upcoming Jersey Jack Toy Story pin but, with all the continual playfield issues in display over the last several years and no new playfield vendor, I am out. This is beyond comprehension why a manufacturer would continue to display such disdain to the buying public. A notable fix would be to have CPR manufacture their playfields. I am saddened because this would have been my family’s first new pinball purchase.

#8200 1 year ago

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