You are 100% in the right, why should we have to do a playfield swap on a 200 play game we spent almost 10k on, and now its 10,500 plus 150.00 shipping, so 10,650. JJP has not fixed the playfield issues, unless plastic washers is considered a fix

Not really. If you buy a NIB game you roll the dice. If u buy used u know exactly what your getting

Kind of not always. My Beatles looked Beautiful out of the box. Same for 100 plays later. At 200 plays Many of the posts started pool bubbling up like lava. With so many HUO listings with (oddly) less then a hundred plays there is still a lot of risk for certainty.

Saw these yesterday on FB

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ouch

Is this your game? If so what did JJP say to you?

I wish that was the only spot.

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I feel for you man.. Hopefully JJP will look after you.

I think there are so many listings with little play because many buy these games sight unseen and then realize its not their cup of tea. Not because the game is about to fall apart.

Wasn't my point. Was just saying buying HUO vs NIB isn't always a guarantee/indicator it will not have issues.

I've yet to see a game with bad clear coat take more than 3 months to show itself. So I'd say pretty much ANY used pin should be safe to shop so long as it's been in use for more than 3 months. At least as far as worrying about the playfield coming apart on you. The rest of the machine? Well, it's pinball. We all know the story. Ball bearing rolling around smacking into things and all that. Caveat Emptor.

But I'd say if you're shopping a machine that's at least 3 months old, you should know by then whether or not it's got play field clear coat issues just by looking at it.

Sorry to say but.... we have had pooling well after 3 months.

Yea, but its a far greater guarantee than opening the box. You can at least inspect the game prior to purchasing.

I will go so far as to say I am tempted to pay NIB list price for a problem free used game.

That’s how insane this has gotten for me.

Curious how Led Zep games are so far. Any issues?

This is why i traded in my JP, i still have the replacement playfield, it had issues also, so i didn’t bother swapping, i gave jp and cash for a Beatles, no issues on beatles so far

Ah, and that's the missing piece that the guys who are happy to get an unpopped pf, and happy to do their own swaps are forgetting! There's no guarantee that the replacement pf you get will be any better than the bad one you got out of the box. Imagine doing all the work for the swap, and then having the new pf have the same problems. Would be a nightmare!

Now maybe there are ways to check your replacement pf, and ways to mitigate cc issues, but still...

This guy gets it.

Ive had a replacement populated playfield show up worse then the original and older date stamped so theres no guarantee that way either. Still better then being ignored by another company when i told them the art and clear completely came up the size of a quarter almost when i moved a star post to narrow the outlanes directly out of the box.

damn. :\

This is a token/accountant gesture and stern know's it.

They've done the sums and seen how much it is going to cost to fix that issue and are closing the books on your case.
Any physical replacements or service that they have to do will reduce profit margin on the machine by a non trivial amount.

What they should be doing is taking the entire machine back and give you a new one (has this ever happened?).

With the old one they could recover parts and remake with a new playfield and mark it as refurbished like they do in other industries. It's not dishonest and the new customer knows what they are getting at a reduced price.

Hell, don't even do anything to it and mark it down with the known quality issues. Plenty of route operators might take a cheap version like this!

All of this makes me SUPER wary of ordering something new. I discussed this with my local distributor after I had a deposit in for a jple and the best I could get was a "we'll look after you". When asked how this sort of thing would be resolved it was "it depends on stern", so I cancelled my order. and got a refund. As much as the distributor wants to fight for me I could see that it wouldnt help.

I know it been said in this thread a 100 times, but im also done with new in box

I have purchased 3 NIB Sterns within the last 6 months. My first NIB purchases ever. One of them has a perfect playfield, one has pooling that I may have mitigated using the Yelobird iron method, the other has significant art chipping off after a few months of play. I had a deposit on another Stern lined up that I recently cancelled since Stern is only going to send an unpopulated playfield for my severely damaged machine. This wasn’t acceptable to me whatsoever. I would have probably purchased at least 2-3 more Sterns over the next year. But now I will not bc they do not treat customers well who have this problem. It’s as simple as that. Maybe they don’t care at all. But as a consumer this is apparently the only recourse I have: Don’t buy from them anymore. I’m reminded of a definition of “insanity” regarding repeating the same act and expecting a different result. I understand that some people think an unpopulated pf is a satisfactory resolution. I vehemently disagree with that assessment and cannot participate in this insanity anymore with Stern. Which is unfortunate. But I will gladly buy used.

Did you not read my post? I gave you an example? My Beatles pin did NOT show any sign of issues for 200 plays which for me is easily 6 months. Is it possible I might be right about my own game? I acknowledged there was an issue not hiding anything. Just supporting that HUO really doesn’t guarantee Anything.

Heres the thing...buying a newer used pin is still money in the pocket of the company most times because most sell new pins to buy NIB games. NIB buyers are not going to stop and the used just out of box market isnt going to stop so it keeps going and going with no repercussions besides a few angry im never going to buy NIB again buyers that are funding the used market which is funding the NIB market. The only way to make any kind of difference is to not buy any current in production pins used or new to stop the flow of the market but we all know that will not happen unless the entire industry and economy tanks.

Can you please show me 5 posts with 5 buyers that Opened a NIB game and it showed pooling? Yes pooling, dimpling, and chipping Is real but it does Not (or Very rarely) happen when the box is open. Most every post starts the same, setup game it’s beautiful! Then weeks or even months later, OMG the Playfield is going to shit! I’ve had 5 games that all looked like art......for the first few months.

Yeah, good point. I guess what I meant was I would buy older used titles that have been around for awhile like Tron, Walking Dead, Metallica, etc. At least if the game had playfield issues, I think they would have surfaced over 5-7 years of someone else owning. At this point I will play Sterns on location, and buy CGC, Spooky etc. NIB. Not saying they have never had issues but it seems like way less of a gamble. Or I may just sit it out for awhile and see if this issue ever ever gets solved. Seems like the digital printing is an issue to some extent. Who knows? Not my area of expertise, nor should it be. I just want a quality product for these insane prices.

I have to agree with this 100%. Most of my pf issues took at least a month or two to surface. There is always going to be a grey/dark period of not knowing if you won or lost the “lottery”. But this is my whole point. If you are one of the unlucky ones with chipping artwork on your pf after a few months(even up to 6 months seems reasonable), Stern should provide a populated playfield. I’m not talking about some minor pooling that can be treated before it chips. I mean legit art chipped away. It should be automatic from Stern. But I got burned by them. I have no options other than accepting an unpopulated pf that doesn’t do much good at all. I’m newer to ownership, but if this is what it’s about, count me out in regards to Stern.

Great insight, which just proves Stern and JJP do not care. This has been the same insight since day one.

And you consider that a win?

It's due to every single JJP release having some sort of early issue(s). WOZ it was the lightboards, Hobbit required a fix kit for new drop target springs, beast pop up spacers, and ramp flaps (what a pain the ass to replace). Dialed In had chipping at the scoops, Pirates it was chipping / pooling playfields and mechanical issues, Wonka the same thing with chipping / pooling playfields, and then early GNR's had playfield issues as well. Fool me once, fool me twice, fool me thrice, fool me four times...

Even though the Hobbit had some early release issues at least they were fixable and didn't involve playfield issues that permanently damaged a game. JJP made those games extremely well and the playfields look incredible (the best they have offered in my opinion).

Personally I would wait 6 months to buy any NIB game from JJP and Stern. This is why Wonka CE and GNR CE playfields are fine, the early $9500 LE buyers sadly had to deal with issues that were later resolved for CE's.

I can only go by my experience of buying dozens of nice HUO games.

No both companys suck when it comes to this subject but at that time one company was shady and the other just ignored me, pick your poison i guess.

Sometimes you can tell who made a playfield, even before you see the logo....

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This operator has found out how to avoid pooling

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Damn those dimples are not even round, it's so soft it looks like the ball is making a dent then pushing the clear around. How bad does dimpling have to be before we can just call them divots? That clear is fucked, did they forget the hardener.

Thats bad

What the hell is that, solder or foil? Plus the 2 posts missing, bet all this operators games play great...

How many plays are on that machine?

Looks like a nice Stern Choice playfield with a good amount of marbling.

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Unknown how many games, it has been on site 18 months.
Here is another couple more pictures. No insert lights seem to be working.
Also looks like the inserts are starting to stick up.

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Looks like the posts on either side of the drop target broke and the op just took them out. The BKSOR Pro on the route here that I help with had that happen to the left side post, took such a pounding it snapped in half. It was a bitch to replace that thing too without taking the entire knight off. That game looks horrendous though, hopefully it's getting a ton of plays to make it look like that.

Not only are posts missing allowing the balls to smash metal on metal, other metal posts are missing their rubbers - roughing up the balls further

Instead of tightening the screws to bed the ramp entrance below the wood surface, why not just put a piece of tape over the lip?

I'd love to see the balls themselves...lol

Give it another 18 months and I bet that playfield looks smooth as glass after those dimples flatten out.

What has happened to the ramp entrance next to the knight?

Also, if this is what the game looks like after two years, i guess people can stop worrying about spike replacement boards ten years down the line. The rest of the game will be way beyond repair by then.

Gave me a chuckle! Nice.

So I am almost done replacing my playfield. Look how god damn warped this thing is! Like wow! Talk about unsavable side drains!

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Ok while not funny, that is down right awful lol. While I guess this came from Stern like this (crazy) no chance the previous owner you bought it from stored it in a freezing garage or had the game in a crazy humid place? Just never seen anything like that.