That’s really pretty generous IMO. They didn’t technically HAVE to do anything, and they still took care of you. Solid.

I agree, take what you can get. If the choice is between nothing, or an unpopulated playfield then its a no brainer and I'm gonna be happy about it.

I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I have a blank playfied sitting in a box under my daughter's bed. My game is worth less because of a defective playfield, and the box under my daughter's bed does nothing to correct that.

So, before I opened my warranty claim, I had a game with a defective playfield. Now afterwards, nothing has changed. I've already been told that the spare blank field does nothing to add any value to the pin if I were to sell it. (confirmed by two prospective buyers who both walked away due to my clear coat issues).

That would be the answer I would give also as a general buyer. Not for truth but based on I don't want to fluff my purchase price lol.

Well lemme know if you want to sell that worthless game to me at a fair price lol. That PF doesn't add a lot of value, because the work involved to get it into the game, but it does add something. Your game would be worth far more if you did the work, so obviously having the playfield does something.

I don't care what anybody thinks is "fair" or not. My price for my SE is $7000.00

Yeah...I kind of figured that was the issue lol. If you want 7k then do the pf swap. Hell, you could probably get a little more because now you'll be including a bonus spare PF that somebody can use as a wall hanger. You're not gonna get top dollar for a car with a blown engine but a new one included, but its certainly worth more than a car without the engine included. I do agree, however, that its BS that you're in this predicament in the first place, but you do at least have an avenue of relief.

Or consider selling at 6600 without playfield and 7 with and sell the playfield solo.

Read the above post again.

I was simply offering a suggestion to Get what you wanted by splitting the offering.

I could have said "firm" but this was a much more passive-agressive way to get my point across.

You, passive aggressive? Now I've seen everything!

I know, right? Usually I'm just active-aggressive. I must be getting soft in my old age.

I wouldn't buy your pin, or any pin, with an extra pf either.

In general, to accept anything less than a fully populated pf, installed by a Stern paid tech and being ok with it, is doing a disservice to your fellow pin buyers. Get off Stern JJP jock. This is NOT an acceptable solution.

Not directed at you BTW. Just nuts that people with issues think this is ok.

Why? I buyer will just find a problem free example.

See this shit, people? This right here...THIS....is why I'm so livid.

And I'm right there with you - it's absolutely NUTS that Stern and JJP think that what they've done is an acceptable solution. I will never buy a NIB pin again, and I will tell anyone not to either.

I do agree with this, he got a second hand game and Stern still gave him a playfield, BUT I will say this, if I was the original owner i would expect a populated playfield or my distributor to take the game back (yes, some good distro's will take the game back and get you another if you have problems).

We know.

You’re not wrong to feel that way.

What Stern have you bought recently? I see you have a issue with Wonka but no Sterns? Just wondering.

Are you asserting that playfield issues do not exist with Stern?

The whole I don't like your opinion but I have no defense so lets just go with you are not part of the group so you don't count.

No they have issues also was just wondering if you bought any recent Sterns and didnt have them in your collection history. Simple as that no drama intended.

I finally got my word on my JP premium. An unpopulated playfield.

sucks ... not sure what i would even do with one
nobody is doing a swap
no buyer cares you have a spare

sad

I would buy a game with pf issues if priced right. Just saying. These games still play just as well as one with no pf issues. No game is worthless. Someone even bought that busted Cyclopes from the warehouse raid that was literally covered in crap. The more appropriate thing to say is there is diminished value. How much diminished value is different depending on actual condition. The common way to compensate that value is a blank pf. That pf has value so again misleading to say it has zero value.

I think JJP lowered the bar with this, making it acceptable to others like Spooky and Stern. Didn't use to be the case, but really there's no other alternative unless there's enough for a class action.

Wow this answers above question fairly quick

As much as i hate chipped peeling pooling playfields id buy one to and do the swap myself. I enjoy working on pins so it wouldnt be a issue but the price id pay would have to be about $500 less then a good playfield game.

Preceisely. I don't need to have skin in the game with Stern to see they are fucking over their customers too.

Don't get me wrong. I love all of the new pins coming out. Guns & Roses is a real winner for sure. And Stern's latest Avengers pin is a blast. But I will never roll the dice on on a NIB pin, and I urge others not to do the same. Buy used, and examine what you are getting.

Simple problem to solve....in the future buy nice HUO games u can inspect. I stopped buying NIB games a few years a go, but rolled the dice with a GNR CE, which arrived in great condition, but its always a risk.

The problem with that is some games the wear only happens after so many plays and can look perfect out of the box, looking at you STERN! All the Avengers games will have chipped playfields from the ball guides at ant man, same with JP2, and DP plus probably many others if the new owners dont fix the guides quick enough. Cant believe they cant put a damn washer under the ball guides.

Im not a defender of any brands. A shit playfield is a shit playfield no matter who makes it and is unacceptable for the amount of money we pay for these toys.

Exactly. Out of the nib purchasing forever. Long run I’ll save more now. Short run I got slapped.

Agreed. The major downside with that strategy is, of course, we have to wait to buy our pins. We don't get to have the "new-hotness" any more.

And apparently waiting now also costs us more as the manufacturers randomly jack prices in the middle of a production run now too!

I learned a long time a go that patience is very important in this hobby. Its a really small market so buying and selling pins just takes time. I'm fortunate that I'm in a big pin market so theres always nice used games for sale....it just takes patience, which I understand is a challenge.

And if everyone adhered to that mentality, no one would be buying NIB so everyone would be clawing tooth and nail to buy a routed example for a $200 discount. There has to be people buying NIB if others want to play the “HUO only” game.

No one is saying it is a permanent thing. People are only stopping because the quality control is shit and the solution is garbage. If everyone stopped NIB you bet your ass would sort that out real quick. Then everyone could go right back to buying.

This is the way.

Ok, so if holding purchases to force improvements is the plan...what will it take for you and the others to decide it's ok to buy again?

Case in point, all indications are the new playfields on GNR CEs are beautiful. I haven't heard a single complaint.
And yet people still angrily beat the drum in here.

When they stop screwing over the people that have shitty ones. It looks like they may have sorted out the quality control issues. Now how about all those people that got fucked. Why you guys feel the need to try and defend this is so weird.

Well for one, properly replacing the defective playfields and making us whole would be a nice start.

Other than that? I'd say get through an entire run of 2 new titles with zero reported play field issues. That would put me more at ease again.

But don't take my word for it. You're already telling me I bitch enough as it is. Let someone else share their opinion and listen to them instead.

I totally agree with this. When Stern starts giving populated playfields for NIB games with significant chipping around posts and guides(esp. for games with only a few hundred plays or a few months of owning), it will be safe to buy NIB again. There is a definite issue here and as much as I hate to say it, I too will not be buying NIB Sterns until they have demonstrated they no longer have chipping playfields on NIB or will make their customers right(unpopulated is not a solution) with a populated pf. These games cost wayyyy too much money to be gambling on the playfield lottery. They need to solve this once and for all. It’s ridiculous, IMO. It’s such a shame too bc I love these games. But a crap playfield on a brand new $8000+ game ruins the experience enough to not make it worth it. Bad coils, optos, coil stops, etc. is totally fixable and reasonable. But this stuff is not.

Lucky we have not listened to you. Not only would we have missed out on some of the best games ever made, if we did want a game we would have to pay more for it too.

I can safely say you can retire from pinball as there will NEVER be a day, game, title, with zero complaints from the pinball masses. Ever.

It sucks that u got a bad play field, and clearly its really pissed u off (I can understand that). Unfortunately the only solution for u is to never buy another NIB game, and either get out of the hobby or buy games u can inspect before purchasing. I think its safe to say that JJP and Stern won't change their policies anytime soon.

I understand what you’re saying. It is the nature of owning pinball machines to deal with things not functioning as intended. I accept that part. However, I think it’s reasonable for the consumer to expect decent quality playfields from a brand new machine. They should not be chipping away artwork with a few hundred plays. Yes, it’s an imperfect world and manufacturing is not infallible. But, the consumer should not have to absorb this immense risk of a seriously damaged new playfield without the company making it right. And I absolutely believe that if a NIB game has significant art chipping off of post and ball guide areas, Stern and others should provide a populated playfield. I apologize if I’m perceived to be off base or unreasonable in expecting better customer service with this particular issue(bad playfields). I understand that it’s everyone’s individual decision to make about NIB purchases. For myself, I can say that for the time being I will not buy any more NIB Sterns. I really don’t want to seem combative about this at all and I respect your view. I just have made a decision based on my experience this last year buying NIB. It really feels like such a gamble.

This is such a bullshit response. No one is saying every game has to be perfect out of the box. There is a big different from doing some adjustments or having to fix or replace a broken/flawed mech and having to swap the entire fucking playfield yourself. This whole thing that if your unhappy your just a Karen and might as well leave the hobby is so tired and weak as an argument. Completely false equivalency.

Did you even read the reply I was responding too? HE made that statement. I have been in pinball for close to 25 years and Know with common sense they will never be perfect ever. Umphhhh

That's awesome, hope it continues
but there were issues on DI, POTC, WONKA, and first run of GNR
so forgive some of us be being hesitant that the issues are fixed for good 100% going forward by a few hundred CE's without any issues

There is always more than one solution.