(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

1 year ago

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There are 8230 posts in this topic. You are on page 156 of 165.
#7751 3 months ago
Quoted from Chuckwebster:

actually i believe the first Spike game was one of their homepins. Transformers? Spiderman? I remember seeing a one off TWD at a show somewhere that was powered by Spike too.

Are you thinking of the 2015 Stern version of WhizBang Pinball's, 2012 Whoa Nellie Big Juicy Melons? It was Spike.

#7752 3 months ago

The dimples do even out, that doesn't bother me at all. I have some HUO Williams games with very low plays, there are dimples on them.

#7753 3 months ago
Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

Are you thinking of the 2015 Stern version of WhizBang Pinball's, 2012 Whoa Nellie Big Juicy Melons? It was Spike.

No, he was right. Transformers The Pin from 2012 was a Spike unit.

https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=5861

#7754 3 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

My bad. You are correct. And it makes my statement that Stern took way too long to fix the issues even more true. I don't remember issues with WWE and KISS like they had with GB? Maybe they started having the boards built at a different vendor?

My KISS had node board issues and Stern made me buy a hacked board from them. Such a shit show. As you said in another post, they should have simply taken care of Spike 1 games since these games were clearly not tested properly.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/kiss-lights-out-updating-node-board#post-4522193

#7755 3 months ago

Has any GNR owner received a replacement playfield, populated or not? Curious if there has been any resolution in this regard for owners with playfield issues.

#7756 3 months ago
Quoted from paulbaptise:

Has any GNR owner received a replacement playfield, populated or not? Curious if there has been any resolution in this regard for owners with playfield issues.

No resolution for me, i wish the people that are being quiet would at least pm me so i can get an actual count.

#7757 87 days ago

So I got word from Stern that they are "hard coating" my playfield and it should be shipped within a few weeks. What do you guys think? Is that something I should wait to play for a while, as to avoid issues?

#7758 87 days ago

Quick Question.
Is there any kind of shortcuts or preventive measures that can be taken to prevent this from happening?
Is there anything that can be used to protect the playfield in problematic areas so it doesnt occur or at least prolong its cosmetic life?

#7759 87 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

So I got word from Stern that they are "hard coating" my playfield and it should be shipped within a few weeks. What do you guys think? Is that something I should wait to play for a while, as to avoid issues?

Never heard of 'hard coating'. Did Stern directly tell you this or was it thru a distro?

Something new they are doing?

#7760 87 days ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Never heard of 'hard coating'. Did Stern directly tell you this or was it thru a distro?
Something new they are doing?

Pat from stern. Here is the sentence:

"Your replacement playfield was just sent out to be hard coated and should be back within 2 weeks.  I will notify you when it ships."

I'm assuming clear coated. Just wondering when is safe to play.

#7761 87 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

Pat from stern. Here is the sentence:
"Your replacement playfield was just sent out to be hard coated and should be back within 2 weeks.  I will notify you when it ships."
I'm assuming clear coated. Just wondering when is safe to play.

Thanks jorant.

That's interesting because there's been a lot of comments about Stern doing the PF 'in house'. Sounds like that's not entirely the case unless they do the CC in another facility.

#7762 87 days ago

They mean clear coated.

#7763 87 days ago
Quoted from Nysbadmk8:

They mean clear coated.

Wonderful. So back to the question at hand. Do I wait to play it?

#7764 87 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

Wonderful. So back to the question at hand. Do I wait to play it?

Little over 1 month, but I typically Wait 3 months

#7765 87 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Little over 1 month, but I typically Wait 3 months

This ^

#7766 86 days ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Thanks jorant.
That's interesting because there's been a lot of comments about Stern doing the PF 'in house'. Sounds like that's not entirely the case unless they do the CC in another facility.

They don't clear or print playfields in house from what I understand.

#7767 86 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

Wonderful. So back to the question at hand. Do I wait to play it?

When I replaced my F-14 playfield with the PPS repro, I waited 6 months to install it. It was very solid and the dimples that I got were very very tiny. So I would wait at least the 3 months if I were you. I know it sucks, but I am convinced that this problem is mostly just CC not cured enough. I could be wrong.

#7768 86 days ago

I just received an E-Mail notice from UPS they are delivering a shipment from Stern tomorrow. I suspect this is the unpopulated playfield replacement they OKed at the end of November last year for my A:IQ.

#7769 86 days ago
Quoted from Caviel:

I just received an E-Mail notice from UPS they are delivering a shipment from Stern tomorrow. I suspect this is the unpopulated playfield replacement they OKed at the end of November last year for my A:IQ.

Yikes that took a while.

#7770 86 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

Yikes that took a while.

Yes, although Stern was still on early A:IQ runs at the time, said they couldn't give an ETA, and the damage is ugly but cosmetic so lower urgency. I was going to send a follow-up E-Mail this week to see if they had a better idea on an ETA, I guess they beat me to it.

It was nice to have Stern do the right thing without giving me any hassle. Only a few E-Mails back and forth to provide pictures and info before I got the replacement and approval a day or two later. It's not a populated playfield, but I'm OK with unpopulated given the options and potential benefits a NIB playfield gives me in the future.

#7771 86 days ago

Dimples usually aren't an issue; however, it is interesting that my original IM has zero - I mean none, not even small ones that you can see with the exact light angle. Strange.

On the other hand, I have seen a few BM66s with dimpling that IS unacceptable. Craters would be an understatement. It made the PF look like absolute garbage.

My IMDN has dimpling, but it's nothing major. I'm totally fine with it.

As with most current pin companies, it's a gamble as to what you're going to get for a PF as there is no consistency. This is why I'm a HUO guy now, if anything.

#7772 86 days ago

Played a Led Zeppelin pro on route and it had dimples

#7773 86 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

Wonderful. So back to the question at hand. Do I wait to play it?

Yeah I would.

You could speed up the process by keeping a fan on it and humidity low.

25
#7774 86 days ago
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:

Played a Led Zeppelin pro on route and it had dimples

Correct, it is a pinball machine

#7775 85 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Well, I'm glad that you are happy, but that resolution would not be enough to make me happy.

Just out of curiosity, what would you do to resolve the situation? I'm in the same boat. After almost 18 months of harassing my distributor I'm *supposed* to get an unpopulated play field.

What other recourse do I have? Fight with them for another 18 months? Pay $5k for a lawyer and file a lawsuit? At some point, you just have to cut your losses and move on. Am I satisfied, no, not really. Is it better than nothing...sure.

#7776 85 days ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Just out of curiosity, what would you do to resolve the situation? I'm in the same boat. After almost 18 months of harassing my distributor I'm *supposed* to get an unpopulated play field.
What other recourse do I have? Fight with them for another 18 months? Pay $5k for a lawyer and file a lawsuit? At some point, you just have to cut your losses and move on. Am I satisfied, no, not really. Is it better than nothing...sure.

The time frame is bullshit. 18 months is insane. So for that I am super sorry.

I'm about to say something that will get me downvoted to hell, and believe me I'm not stern kiss ass, but.... I'm shocked by the number of people in this hobby that can't fix their own machines. I tell people that if you want to get into pinball, be prepared for something to break. And yes, playfield swaps are extensive, but not difficult if you take it one bite at a time. I'm just surprised how many people get a free 5, 6, 700 dollar playfield and aren't at least grateful for that. Or, they cry for one only not to install it and use it as bait when they sell their machine. Which tells me whatever your issue was, it wasnt that bad after all, huh? Not to change it?

Mine was shit. Unplayable. Not ghosting inserts or bubbling clear, but straight up unplayable trash with warping, leading to inescapable outlane drains.

So i'm replacing it. Happy to do so. Just seems odd how many won't or CAN'T do it.

#7777 85 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

The time frame is bullshit. 18 months is insane. So for that I am super sorry.
I'm about to say something that will get me downvoted to hell, and believe me I'm not stern kiss ass, but.... I'm shocked by the number of people in this hobby that can't fix their own machines. I tell people that if you want to get into pinball, be prepared for something to break. And yes, playfield swaps are extensive, but not difficult if you take it one bite at a time. I'm just surprised how many people get a free 5, 6, 700 dollar playfield and aren't at least grateful for that. Or, they cry for one only not to install it and use it as bait when they sell their machine. Which tells me whatever your issue was, it wasnt that bad after all, huh? Not to change it?
Mine was shit. Unplayable. Not ghosting inserts or bubbling clear, but straight up unplayable trash with warping, leading to inescapable outlane drains.
So i'm replacing it. Happy to do so. Just seems odd how many won't or CAN'T do it.

It's been almost 12 months now since Stern approved a new playfield for me, and 5 months before that.

If I ever get my unpopulated playfield, I will be more than happy to swap it.

#7778 85 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

The time frame is bullshit...

Dude, this is so sad, your going full Simp for Stern, no one wants to read this.

13
#7779 85 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

I tell people that if you want to get into pinball, be prepared for something to break. And yes, playfield swaps are extensive, but not difficult if you take it one bite at a time. I'm just surprised how many people get a free 5, 6, 700 dollar playfield and aren't at least grateful for that. Just seems odd how many won't or CAN'T do it.

Well, I've been fixing my own machines for a long time (bought my first in 1984), but I've never done a playfield swap - and I'd be quite intimidated in trying it. Additionally, I don't have the extra room (or some of the tools) that I would need to do a swap.

But the real point is that these people have bought a defective machine, and the manufacturer wants to just send out a part and be done with it. That would be fine if the part was a leg that can just be bolted off/on (or even a board to swap out). But replacing the playfield requires a lot more work/time/knowledge/space/tools than many people have - including me.

Stern's support team is still in the mindset of "these route operators can swap a playfield if need be", but Stern's sales team is thinking "we can sell these highly profitable LE versions for home use and make a bunch of profit". These two perspectives are in conflict.

#7780 85 days ago
Quoted from Caviel:

I just received an E-Mail notice from UPS they are delivering a shipment from Stern tomorrow. I suspect this is the unpopulated playfield replacement they OKed at the end of November last year for my A:IQ.

Wow. I was promised a unpopulated PF from my distro over a month before your approval, and I'm still sitting here waiting. Granted it was for TMNT, not AIQ, but still!

#7781 85 days ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

Wow. I was promised a unpopulated PF from my distro over a month before your approval, and I'm still sitting here waiting. Granted it was for TMNT, not AIQ, but still!

I have to ship my playfield back first. They are sending a box shortly

#7782 85 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Stern's support team is still in the mindset of "these route operators can swap a playfield if need be", but Stern's sales team is thinking "we can sell these highly profitable LE versions for home use and make a bunch of profit". These two perspectives are in conflict.

Agreed, but until someone causes them some serious pain, they won’t change the formula.

#7783 85 days ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Dude, this is so sad, your going full Simp for Stern, no one wants to read this.

I'm saying the time frame blows. Saying it sucks.

#7784 85 days ago
Quoted from Max_Badazz:

I have to ship my playfield back first. They are sending a box shortly

Populated, or depopulated?

#7785 85 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Populated, or depopulated?

populated

#7786 85 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

Mine was shit. Unplayable. Not ghosting inserts or bubbling clear, but straight up unplayable trash with warping, leading to inescapable outlane drains.

I'm shocked you couldn't fix this.

#7787 85 days ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

I'm shocked you couldn't fix this.

Believe me, I tried.

#7788 85 days ago
Quoted from Returner:

It's been almost 12 months now since Stern approved a new playfield for me, and 5 months before that.
If I ever get my unpopulated playfield, I will be more than happy to swap it.

Stern does not care. They are now only in it for the money and care less about the home customer.

12
#7789 83 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

The time frame is bullshit. 18 months is insane. So for that I am super sorry.
I'm about to say something that will get me downvoted to hell, and believe me I'm not stern kiss ass, but.... I'm shocked by the number of people in this hobby that can't fix their own machines. I tell people that if you want to get into pinball, be prepared for something to break. And yes, playfield swaps are extensive, but not difficult if you take it one bite at a time. I'm just surprised how many people get a free 5, 6, 700 dollar playfield and aren't at least grateful for that. Or, they cry for one only not to install it and use it as bait when they sell their machine. Which tells me whatever your issue was, it wasnt that bad after all, huh? Not to change it?
Mine was shit. Unplayable. Not ghosting inserts or bubbling clear, but straight up unplayable trash with warping, leading to inescapable outlane drains.
So i'm replacing it. Happy to do so. Just seems odd how many won't or CAN'T do it.

Cars blow motors and transmissions go out within warranty as well, are you prepared to replace a motor or transmission if the manufacturer sent it to you? Hell, I'd be more comfortable doing that, then swapping pf. How many hours will it take to get a swapped pf working correctly, for a newbie? Why cant Stern just send out a populated pf, and expect the same in return? Why is Stern making the customer perform the swap, when in reality it should be Stern employees depopulating the pf and returning part to inventory.

And grateful they sorta stand behind a $8000 product. Stern loves you!

#7790 82 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

So I got word from Stern that they are "hard coating" my playfield and it should be shipped within a few weeks. What do you guys think? Is that something I should wait to play for a while, as to avoid issues?

Quoted from Haymaker:

They don't clear or print playfields in house from what I understand.

The walk through with Jack Danger suggested otherwise re: in house clearing (6min mark) but this was from october last year.

cc : "we sand the entire playfield to make sure the entire thing is level and this is the preparation to bring it to where we're clear coating them in this back room that we're not going to show you"

#7791 82 days ago
Quoted from koops:

The walk through with Jack Danger suggested otherwise (6min mark).

That's great. Pat from stern told me they're sending it out. So don't know what to say.

#7792 82 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

That's great. Pat from stern told me they're sending it out. So don't know what to say.

Video was from october last year so anything could have happened between then and now.

Entirely possible things have changed or you are getting special treatment outside of their normal process.

#7793 82 days ago
Quoted from koops:

Video was from october last year so anything could have happened between then and now.
Entirely possible things have changed or you are getting special treatment outside of their normal process.

I certainly HOPE they don't send it out. Would make me feel I would get it sooner, so I hope you're right.

#7794 82 days ago
Quoted from koops:

The walk through with Jack Danger suggested otherwise re: in house clearing (6min mark) but this was from october last year.

That’s before the art is applied by a 3rd party vendor and cleared again. They have multiple different vendors that do that step.

24
#7795 81 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

The time frame is bullshit. 18 months is insane. So for that I am super sorry.
I'm about to say something that will get me downvoted to hell, and believe me I'm not stern kiss ass, but.... I'm shocked by the number of people in this hobby that can't fix their own machines. I tell people that if you want to get into pinball, be prepared for something to break. And yes, playfield swaps are extensive, but not difficult if you take it one bite at a time. I'm just surprised how many people get a free 5, 6, 700 dollar playfield and aren't at least grateful for that. Or, they cry for one only not to install it and use it as bait when they sell their machine. Which tells me whatever your issue was, it wasnt that bad after all, huh? Not to change it?
Mine was shit. Unplayable. Not ghosting inserts or bubbling clear, but straight up unplayable trash with warping, leading to inescapable outlane drains.
So i'm replacing it. Happy to do so. Just seems odd how many won't or CAN'T do it.

I too am grateful to our overlord Stern and JJP for providing a replacement free playfield to replace add to the one I've already got.

There is some distance, a gulf in fact, between someone being able to rebuild flippers and do a bit of light soldering, to wholesale replacing a playfield. The two things are not remotely equivalent, so it's a fallacy to say that people who aren't capable of doing the latter can't "fix their own machines". You're using reductive language to absolve Stern/JJP of responsibility to make their customers whole.

Would you make the same argument about people who buy cars, who can change the screenwash, replace the oil, maybe the brake discs, that they should be capable of dropping engines and gearboxes, etc as well? Would you grace car manufacturers with the same latitude that you're giving Stern/JJP here, that it would be perfectly fine for them to send out replacement gearboxes that the customer has to fit themselves, on their own dime?

I'd wager that swapping a playfield is actually probably more complex than replacing an engine or gearbox, given how much wiring is involved, the potential for mistakes that could damage or destroy components that might not be easily replaceable or cost a fortune. Are Stern/JJP standing behind people who undertake this work and wire things the wrong way, blowing node boards, etc?

The absolute least these companies should be doing is providing populated playfields, and even then I'd suggest it's not a trivial job for a typical end user to swap. They ought to be sending these populated playfields out with a technician to do the swap.

I find it staggering that people are actually ok with getting an unpopulated playfield as a solution to a defective warrantied product, it's like they've got Stockholm Syndrome or something.

-15
#7796 81 days ago
Quoted from Durzel:

I too am grateful to our overlord Stern and JJP for providing a replacement free playfield to replace add to the one I've already got.
There is some distance, a gulf in fact, between someone being able to rebuild flippers and do a bit of light soldering, to wholesale replacing a playfield. The two things are not remotely equivalent, so it's a fallacy to say that people who aren't capable of doing the latter can't "fix their own machines". You're using reductive language to absolve Stern/JJP of responsibility to make their customers whole.
Would you make the same argument about people who buy cars, who can change the screenwash, replace the oil, maybe the brake discs, that they should be capable of dropping engines and gearboxes, etc as well? Would you grace car manufacturers with the same latitude that you're giving Stern/JJP here, that it would be perfectly fine for them to send out replacement gearboxes that the customer has to fit themselves, on their own dime?
I'd wager that swapping a playfield is actually probably more complex than replacing an engine or gearbox, given how much wiring is involved, the potential for mistakes that could damage or destroy components that might not be easily replaceable or cost a fortune. Are Stern/JJP standing behind people who undertake this work and wire things the wrong way, blowing node boards, etc?
The absolute least these companies should be doing is providing populated playfields, and even then I'd suggest it's not a trivial job for a typical end user to swap. They ought to be sending these populated playfields out with a technician to do the swap.
I find it staggering that people are actually ok with getting an unpopulated playfield as a solution to a defective warrantied product, it's like they've got Stockholm Syndrome or something.

Okay mr negative. Thank you for your shitty viewpoint. Why the hell cant you guys try to be positive? Would it literally kill you? And no, putting a playfield together is not rocket science. Do I want a new one teleported to me? Of course god dammit. But this is better than nothing.

13
#7797 81 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

Okay mr negative. Thank you for your shitty viewpoint. Why the hell cant you guys try to be positive? Would it literally kill you? And no, putting a playfield together is not rocket science. Do I want a new one teleported to me? Of course god dammit. But this is better than nothing.

Dude you’re the one in here being a dick to other people in the hobby. Acting like they should be so thankful. That they are inferior because they won’t do the swap themselves. That their playfields are not really defective because if they were they would man up and do the swap. That it’s somehow not right to sell on. It’s nauseating, good thing there is a solution.

#7798 81 days ago

..... waste of time

-8
#7799 81 days ago

Wow. I have no idea how this got out of hand. Guys, for the love of hell. I got this game second hand and they're giving me a free playfield.

Edit. Let me join in. Yeahhhhhh. Fuck stern. Fuck emmmmmmm! May I join you salty fucks, now? May I come back to the fold of cranky old cunts?

#7800 81 days ago
Quoted from jorant:

Wow. I have no idea how this got out of hand. Guys, for the love of hell. I got this game second hand and they're giving me a free playfield.
Edit. Let me join in. Yeahhhhhh. Fuck stern. Fuck emmmmmmm! May I join you salty fucks, now? May I come back to the fold of cranky old cunts?

Do not worry about the Captain Negative squad. This hobby is about you and what makes you happy. Some people can never be happy.

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