(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

2 years ago


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#7651 8 months ago
Quoted from Nysbadmk8:

You'll be pleasantly surprised. My HW was my first American... I rank it above my R&M and AIQ/Elvira

Yes! Glad to hear it...Again!!! I've been hearing about American's build quality since Houdini. It's one of the main reasons I bought one! I'm voting with my wallet.

#7652 8 months ago

Speaking of playfield issues, anyone notice anything wrong with this reproduction ST:TNG playfield provided by a customer for a playfield swap? (Hint: compare the hole sizes for the left and right flipper bushings.) The manufacturer's response? "simple solution, use a drill bit and open the hole up to the right size". Sure, as if the vast majority of the folks doing a playfield swap will be comfortable drilling a 1/2" hole through clear coat without chipping the edges or tearing out the edges of the playfield, to say nothing of getting the hole in just the right spot.

That's beside the "minor" issues of the upper mounting locations for three out of four rollover lane guides being off-center, one as much as the diameter of the pilot hole needed for a #8 post screw. Yep, the lane guides not being parallel with each other wouldn't be obvious at all, nor impact game play. Luckily the old holes will be covered by the #8 post installed at the correct locations.

And the "minor" issue of the routed holes under the playfield for the lower inlane proximity sensors not being routed as deep as the originals (too shallow by 1/8" or so), leaving me to wonder if the sensors will be totally reliable in game play. (I have bench-tested moving a ball through by hand and they appear to work, but who knows about a ball that comes whipping through there during game play?)

Yet another case of the people who make this crap not caring once they have their money.

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-4
#7653 8 months ago
Quoted from jorant:

Here is my video of how warped this is:

Like... what's to look at? You're telling me the "quality" guys at Stern are stroking their beards debating if this is okay or not? It is fucked, fix it.

Stern look at the video and said, wait a minute it's only a 4 year old Startrek.
You only get 2 months warranty.
Oeps, sorry.

#7654 8 months ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

Stern look at the video and said, wait a minute it's only a 4 year old Startrek

Except it's not.

-19
#7655 8 months ago

I know it sucks a warpt playfield, but it's a few years old. It can have other reasons why it's warpt. Moisture can warp a playfield when its dry again. It's 5 years old, for me it has nothing to do with Stern quality.

11
#7656 8 months ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

but it's a few years old

Except it's not.

Quoted from pinballwil:

It's 5 years old,

Except it's not.

Reading can help. When was it made you may ask...?

#7657 8 months ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

I know it sucks a warpt playfield, but it's a few years old. It can have other reasons why it's warpt. Moisture can warp a playfield when its dry again. It's 5 years old, for me it has nothing to do with Stern quality.

No STERN makes garbage products which they do not stand behind.

#7658 8 months ago
Quoted from Nysbadmk8:

You'll be pleasantly surprised. My HW was my first American... I rank it above my R&M and AIQ/Elvira

Above Elvira?! No way. That's VERY high praise.

#7659 8 months ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

No STERN makes garbage products which they do not stand behind.

And yet, they can't make these "garbage" products fast enough. People are waiting months to get their hands on "garbage." How do you explain that?

#7660 8 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

And yet, they can't make these "garbage" products fast enough. People are waiting months to get their hands on "garbage." How do you explain that?

Can confirm. Waiting since August for SW Pro.

-10
#7661 8 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

And yet, they can't make these "garbage" products fast enough. People are waiting months to get their hands on "garbage." How do you explain that?

They do make an enjoyable table. But the product itself is no longer what it once was. Watch this video which explains exactly why their product is garbage.

22
#7662 8 months ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

They do make an enjoyable table. But the product itself is no longer what it once was. Watch this video which explains exactly why their product is garbage.

That guy is garbage and full of shit. Not to mention he has an axe to grind and doesn't care about facts.

Got my LZLE today and it plays perfect out of the box. Clearcoat is also perfect. Nice and smooth, no pooling and no wood grain. Cabinet is a brick shithouse with plenty of corner supports and 3/4" birch plywood bottom. The new expression lighting blew us away. It's integrated into a channel in the side of the cabinet rather than hanging in the way and causing clutter. Mirrored backglass also looks amazing as does the factory invisible playfield glass.

#7663 8 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

That guy is garbage and full of shit. Not to mention he has an axe to grind and doesn't care about facts.
Got my LZLE today and it plays perfect out of the box. Clearcoat is also perfect. Nice and smooth, no pooling and no wood grain. Cabinet is a brick shithouse with plenty of corner supports and 3/4" birch plywood bottom. The new expression lighting blew us away. It's integrated into a channel in the side of the cabinet rather than hanging in the way and causing clutter. Mirrored backglass also looks amazing as does the factory invisible playfield glass.

I concur with some or most of this, my AIQLE is definitely not a pile of shit.

#7664 8 months ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

I know it sucks a warpt playfield, but it's a few years old. It can have other reasons why it's warpt. Moisture can warp a playfield when its dry again. It's 5 years old, for me it has nothing to do with Stern quality.

Machine was made in march 2020. Bought in October. I said that already.

10
#7665 8 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

That guy is garbage and full of shit. Not to mention he has an axe to grind and doesn't care about facts.
Got my LZLE today and it plays perfect out of the box. Clearcoat is also perfect. Nice and smooth, no pooling and no wood grain. Cabinet is a brick shithouse with plenty of corner supports and 3/4" birch plywood bottom. The new expression lighting blew us away. It's integrated into a channel in the side of the cabinet rather than hanging in the way and causing clutter. Mirrored backglass also looks amazing as does the factory invisible playfield glass.

Yep, that guy is definitely full of shit. He got caught illegally importing and selling the same games he is trying to bad mouth. Funny that. He got his nose out of joint when Stern cut him off.

#7666 8 months ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Yep, that guy is definitely full of shit. He got caught illegally importing and selling the same games he is trying to bad mouth. Funny that. He got his nose out of joint when Stern cut him off.

Yeah that shit pile video has been posted several times before. It's crapola vendetta video he made because he got caught.

#7667 8 months ago

That video gets posted a lot and I can accept the guy has some conflict with Stern. That being said he does seem to make some reasonable points. I haven’t seen any counter argument or breakdown. Does it exists somewhere? All I have seen is that he is a liar, full of shit and bitter. I’m sure the truth is in the middle somewhere. It’s not like he is the only guy saying this stuff. You hear about power supply, flipper fade and node board issues all over the site.

#7668 8 months ago
Quoted from Darscot:

You hear about power supply, flipper fade and node board issues all over the site.

All pinball systems have issues and especially when they first come out. Stern had to replace the defective MPU in basically every WPT when SAM first came out. Don't even get me started on the reseting issues, GI connectors and opto issues on the 90s Williams WPC games that persisted for years. Point is that SPIKE was no different and had some flaws in the early games for people to point at and harp on. On whole though the new Sterns are SPIKE 2 games are reliable. I have had a number of SPIKE 2 games pass through here and stay for a while and never had a single issue. I'm sure there are still issues here and there, but to me SPIKE is a reason TO buy instead of a reason NOT to buy.

This blow hard from Australia is no different than the people I hear talking about drug or vaccine side effects. You read the list "possible" side effects for Advil in the wrong context and you will never buy another medicine again.

#7669 8 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

All pinball systems have issues and especially when they first come out. Stern had to replace the defective MPU in basically every WPT when SAM first came out. Don't even get me started on the reseting issues, GI connectors and opto issues on the 90s Williams WPC games that persisted for years. Point is that SPIKE was no different and had some flaws in the early games for people to point at and harp on. On whole though the new Sterns are SPIKE 2 games are reliable. I have had a number of SPIKE 2 games pass through here and stay for a while and never had a single issue. I'm sure there are still issues here and there, but to me SPIKE is a reason TO buy instead of a reason NOT to buy.
This blow hard from Australia is no different than the people I hear talking about drug or vaccine side effects. You read the list "possible" side effects for Advil in the wrong context and you will never buy another medicine again.

Yeah I don't care if it's Spike 1, 2 Sam or System 11 for that matter. I didn't realize anyone cared or thought made any difference, I personally feel its all just markting anyway. Every iteration of a system or engine is always mostly the old one with a little bit of new. Obviously the majority of people are not going to have issues. There are some issues in production and quality and the appears to makes some reasonable points. I don't understand this motivation of he said Spike is bad everything he says is nonsense or my pin was good so everything Stern makes must be good. There is middle ground here and it would be nice to actually have a reasonable discussion. Everyone has there own level of acceptable risk. I know I hate dealing with a problem with anything, so I will just pass even for very low risk. Some people are totally fine with issues and problems and are comfortable that it will get sorted out. It's totally ok to be in either camp and we don't have to constantly try to convince the other they are wrong. I like to see the problems people have and know how it gets handled so I can assess the risk for myself. I would appreciate if someone could show me the specs on the power supply and what the real numbers are. Would be nice to know how much he is exaggerating. It's way more helpful than endless posting the video and endless saying he is a liar.

#7670 8 months ago
Quoted from jorant:

Machine was made in march 2020. Bought in October. I said that already.

Sorry didn't noticed that.
This is really bad for 10 month game.
A new bare playfield from Stern is the least they can do.

#7671 8 months ago

So, are JJP and AP and Spooky games overbuilt, or are Sterns under built? I know when i play a pin from the former, and then the latter, the stern feels no where near as solid.

So are Stern pins underbuilt, or others over?? Does it matter?

13
#7672 8 months ago
Quoted from Darscot:

I would appreciate if someone could show me the specs on the power supply and what the real numbers are. Would be nice to know how much he is exaggerating. It's way more helpful than endless posting the video and endless saying he is a liar.

Not to derail this thread, I will try to answer this question. The SPIKE system takes advantage of modern power supply technology to eliminate the old fashioned transformers, wiring and power supply boards found in older games (and some new games too) totaling about 50 pounds of useless weight all while increasing the reliability. Instead of having separate transformer taps for ac power to feed multiple separate power supplies to produce 5v, 12v, 20v, 50v and whatever other voltages are needed on the game, there is one simple power supply that takes in 120v a/c directly and produces 48volts DC. Each of the boards and node boards in the game uses that 48volts to produce whatever voltages they need on the board itself via a device called a dc-to-dc converter. This method is much more efficient, uses less power and therefore produces less heat. This eliminates a lot of wiring in the cabinet for the different voltages and thus eliminates a lot of failure points. This is the way electronics and control systems in general have gone, not just pinball machines.

There are a lot of benefits to a system like this including being able to use a commercial off the shelf power supply instead of a custom one. The SPIKE supplies are available at Digi-key for a little over $130. These are simple and reliable power supplies with only one problem: they have a one-speed fan that is very noisy when it comes on. Fortunately Stern chose a power supply with plenty of extra power, so it will run cool. It takes a long time to heat up, so the fan in the power supply doesn't come on for a very long time and when the thermostat finally does click the fan on (it only has one speed), it only stays on for a minute or so and shuts off again for a long while. This is direct proof that this power supply is not being run hard and will not fail early due to heat or being over driven. SPIKE has a 500 watt power supply and believe me this game never uses more than half of that.

Now compare my fact-based description of the power supply system and fan to the "expert opinion" in that video on the power supply and fan...

Need more? As stated above the only issue with the SPIKE 2 power supply is the noisy fan. Even though that fan barely runs because the game runs cool, it is still annoying as hell to people like me! For this reason there is an aftermarket cooling fan sold by Pinmonk which has sold many, many units over the years including to me. This product replaces the stock fan with a fan that is quieter and blows LESS air than the OEM fan. Even with a weaker fan, the fan hardly runs and the game still runs cool. See more description and actual factual research along with temperature readings here: https://pinmonk.com/collections/guardians-of-the-galaxy/products/spike-quiet-fan-plug-n-play-kit

Again, compare the above to the statements made by that blowhard about the SPIKE power supply. I could literally go point-by-point through this whole video, but I don't want to waste any more time on him. Honestly Youtube should take down that video.

#7673 8 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

Not to derail this thread, I will try to answer this question. The SPIKE system takes advantage of modern power supply technology to eliminate the old fashioned transformers, wiring and power supply boards found in older games (and some new games too) totaling about 50 pounds of useless weight all while increasing the reliability. Instead of having separate transformer taps for ac power to feed multiple separate power supplies to produce 5v, 12v, 20v, 50v and whatever other voltages are needed on the game, there is one simple power supply that takes in 120v a/c directly and produces 48volts DC. Each of the boards and node boards in the game uses that 48volts to produce whatever voltages they need on the board itself via a device called a dc-to-dc converter. This method is much more efficient, uses less power and therefore produces less heat. This eliminates a lot of wiring in the cabinet for the different voltages and thus eliminates a lot of failure points. This is the way electronics and control systems in general have gone, not just pinball machines.
There are a lot of benefits to a system like this including being able to use a commercial off the shelf power supply instead of a custom one. The SPIKE supplies are available at Digi-key for a little over $130. These are simple and reliable power supplies with only one problem: they have a one-speed fan that is very noisy when it comes on. Fortunately Stern chose a power supply with plenty of extra power, so it will run cool. It takes a long time to heat up, so the fan in the power supply doesn't come on for a very long time and when the thermostat finally does click the fan on (it only has one speed), it only stays on for a minute or so and shuts off again for a long while. This is direct proof that this power supply is not being run hard and will not fail early due to heat or being over driven. SPIKE has a 500 watt power supply and believe me this game never uses more than half of that.
Now compare my fact-based description of the power supply system and fan to the "expert opinion" in that video on the power supply and fan...
Need more? As stated above the only issue with the SPIKE 2 power supply is the noisy fan. Even though that fan barely runs because the game runs cool, it is still annoying as hell to people like me! For this reason there is an aftermarket cooling fan sold by Pinmonk which has sold many, many units over the years including to me. This product replaces the stock fan with a fan that is quieter and blows LESS air than the OEM fan. Even with a weaker fan, the fan hardly runs and the game still runs cool. See more description and actual factual research along with temperature readings here: https://pinmonk.com/collections/guardians-of-the-galaxy/products/spike-quiet-fan-plug-n-play-kit
Again, compare the above to the statements made by that blowhard about the SPIKE power supply. I could literally go point-by-point through this whole video, but I don't want to waste any more time on him. Honestly Youtube should take down that video.

Learned some here, but no, censorship sucks.

#7674 8 months ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

Sorry didn't noticed that.
This is really bad for 10 month game.
A new bare playfield from Stern is the least they can do.

I mean, what kinda ultra hot sauna shit hole would I have to live in to make this board warp this bad on such a short amount of time? It would be inexcusable.

#7675 8 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

Not to derail this thread, I will try to answer this question. The SPIKE system takes advantage of modern power supply technology to eliminate the old fashioned transformers, wiring and power supply boards found in older games (and some new games too) totaling about 50 pounds of useless weight all while increasing the reliability. Instead of having separate transformer taps for ac power to feed multiple separate power supplies to produce 5v, 12v, 20v, 50v and whatever other voltages are needed on the game, there is one simple power supply that takes in 120v a/c directly and produces 48volts DC. Each of the boards and node boards in the game uses that 48volts to produce whatever voltages they need on the board itself via a device called a dc-to-dc converter. This method is much more efficient, uses less power and therefore produces less heat. This eliminates a lot of wiring in the cabinet for the different voltages and thus eliminates a lot of failure points. This is the way electronics and control systems in general have gone, not just pinball machines.
There are a lot of benefits to a system like this including being able to use a commercial off the shelf power supply instead of a custom one. The SPIKE supplies are available at Digi-key for a little over $130. These are simple and reliable power supplies with only one problem: they have a one-speed fan that is very noisy when it comes on. Fortunately Stern chose a power supply with plenty of extra power, so it will run cool. It takes a long time to heat up, so the fan in the power supply doesn't come on for a very long time and when the thermostat finally does click the fan on (it only has one speed), it only stays on for a minute or so and shuts off again for a long while. This is direct proof that this power supply is not being run hard and will not fail early due to heat or being over driven. SPIKE has a 500 watt power supply and believe me this game never uses more than half of that.
Now compare my fact-based description of the power supply system and fan to the "expert opinion" in that video on the power supply and fan...
Need more? As stated above the only issue with the SPIKE 2 power supply is the noisy fan. Even though that fan barely runs because the game runs cool, it is still annoying as hell to people like me! For this reason there is an aftermarket cooling fan sold by Pinmonk which has sold many, many units over the years including to me. This product replaces the stock fan with a fan that is quieter and blows LESS air than the OEM fan. Even with a weaker fan, the fan hardly runs and the game still runs cool. See more description and actual factual research along with temperature readings here: https://pinmonk.com/collections/guardians-of-the-galaxy/products/spike-quiet-fan-plug-n-play-kit
Again, compare the above to the statements made by that blowhard about the SPIKE power supply. I could literally go point-by-point through this whole video, but I don't want to waste any more time on him. Honestly Youtube should take down that video.

Thanks I really appreciate this as the guy is clearly massively exaggerating. I was curious what the power supply was rated for and what the pin is pulling. I can't imagine a Stern every pulling anywhere close to a 500 watts. Just out of curiosity I checked the JJP GnR manual and it lists a 150 watt power supply that seems under powered. Is that actually accurate?

#7676 8 months ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Just out of curiosity I checked the JJP GnR manual and it lists a 150 watt power supply that seems under powered. Is that actually accurate?

Yes. That power supply is just supplying power to the PC board, playfield controller node board and all of the unique LED node boards that are in each JJP game. None of that surface mount stuff pulls a lot of power and there are no hard disks and massive CPUs and graphics cards in the PC. JJP is a little different in that they have a separate set of simple power supplies built into the driver board to produce the various coil voltages, so that 125w power supply isn't the only power supply in the game.

And once again, I would not worry about it being under powered. In the first couple of years, JJP had a ton of issues with the LED node boards and an under powered transformer on the driver board, but those are ancient history at this point too. They also had a really noisy fan too back then, not sure how the current fans are on JJP? I haven't had one in my game room for a few years now.

OK back to playfield issues. Fortunately this thread seems really quiet on pooling issues at this point other than a few really early GnR.

#7677 8 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

Yes. That power supply is just supplying power to the PC board, playfield controller node board and all of the unique LED node boards that are in each JJP game. None of that surface mount stuff pulls a lot of power and there are no hard disks and massive CPUs and graphics cards in the PC. JJP is a little different in that they have a separate set of simple power supplies built into the driver board to produce the various coil voltages, so that 125w power supply isn't the only power supply in the game.
And once again, I would not worry about it being under powered. In the first couple of years, JJP had a ton of issues with the LED node boards and an under powered transformer on the driver board, but those are ancient history at this point too. They also had a really noisy fan too back then, not sure how the current fans are on JJP? I haven't had one in my game room for a few years now.
OK back to playfield issues. Fortunately this thread seems really quiet on pooling issues at this point other than a few really early GnR.

And a few recent Stern playfield problems

#7678 8 months ago

question,
I am just waiting for my new Avengers IQ Premium to arrive and already bought a playfield protector... it costs a little fortune and bought it because I was not sure... but I am not sure I want it, first, it is just another piece of something that seats on top of the playfield and second...not sure I want to disassemble half the game to put it in (added risk of breaking something during installation)....

so....

all that to ask.

What would you do with a brand new game? install pf protector or is it overkill... I dont think I mind dimples if they are evenly distributed lol

#7679 8 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

What would you do with a brand new game?

Check to see if the playfield bows?

... Too soon? LOL

#7680 8 months ago
Quoted from Guidotorpedo:

Normally I don’t pile on to threads like this.... but I service a beatles gold that is on route, and the pooling is so bad on it, that the playfield has actually started to chip away in spots where the art is pooling up. This is a game the location probably paid around $8000 for.
I’ll get pics next time I see it, but it’s.... bad. And unfortunate, really. I’m sure if I yelled loud enough I might be able to get a blank, for a game that’s been owned and sort of played the last 2 years (easily less than 10,000 plays), but instead I held back my LZ money to see what cgc and American offers next. To me, that’s more impactful.

Here are pics of the playfield, and the play count. Judge for yourself.

25C2096B-D220-48B6-BDDC-8FABE4C23F1D (resized).jpeg4F92C371-2757-49C0-B1E7-69D7AF299FA8 (resized).jpeg74AEA5F5-1CCA-4F3A-956D-B000998B0189 (resized).jpeg950C0095-AB61-41C2-A73A-5308F000CE9B (resized).jpeg9DE28490-3187-43CC-81BD-1F66F43AD08B (resized).jpegB12EFC59-C3EC-4A42-9D0F-DD29F42DACFC (resized).jpegDE49D87C-E18E-4F4E-A08A-94D91EE6A744 (resized).jpeg
#7681 8 months ago
Quoted from Guidotorpedo:

Here are pics of the playfield, and the play count. Judge for yourself.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Par for the course these days. Exactly how my Wonka looks.

#7682 8 months ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Par for the course these days. Exactly how my Wonka looks.

Not acceptable. It sounds like mirco has fixed their issues for JJP. What about stern? Why don’t other manufacturers have this issue, despite having significantly less capital/market share?

#7683 8 months ago
Quoted from jadziedzic:

Speaking of playfield issues, anyone notice anything wrong with this reproduction ST:TNG playfield provided by a customer for a playfield swap? (Hint: compare the hole sizes for the left and right flipper bushings.) The manufacturer's response? "simple solution, use a drill bit and open the hole up to the right size". Sure, as if the vast majority of the folks doing a playfield swap will be comfortable drilling a 1/2" hole through clear coat without chipping the edges or tearing out the edges of the playfield, to say nothing of getting the hole in just the right spot.
That's beside the "minor" issues of the upper mounting locations for three out of four rollover lane guides being off-center, one as much as the diameter of the pilot hole needed for a #8 post screw. Yep, the lane guides not being parallel with each other wouldn't be obvious at all, nor impact game play. Luckily the old holes will be covered by the #8 post installed at the correct locations.
And the "minor" issue of the routed holes under the playfield for the lower inlane proximity sensors not being routed as deep as the originals (too shallow by 1/8" or so), leaving me to wonder if the sensors will be totally reliable in game play. (I have bench-tested moving a ball through by hand and they appear to work, but who knows about a ball that comes whipping through there during game play?)
Yet another case of the people who make this crap not caring once they have their money.[quoted image]

Is this a Mirco PF by chance?

Quoted from jorant:

I mean, what kinda ultra hot sauna shit hole would I have to live in to make this board warp this bad on such a short amount of time? It would be inexcusable.

I've been in his gameroom and can confirm it is not even remotely an ultra hot sauna shit hole.

#7684 8 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Is this a Mirco PF by chance?

I've been in his gameroom and can confirm it is not even remotely an ultra hot sauna shit hole.

Haymaker also writes vacation brochures for the local tourism board. lol

I love that comment, well done.

#7685 8 months ago
Quoted from Guidotorpedo:

Not acceptable. It sounds like mirco has fixed their issues for JJP. What about stern? Why don’t other manufacturers have this issue, despite having significantly less capital/market share?

Beatles was two years ago. JJP and Stern both appear to have fixed these issues. That said, it did take way too long.

#7686 8 months ago
Quoted from Guidotorpedo:

Here are pics of the playfield, and the play count. Judge for yourself.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Like the previous poster said. Stern makes great quality products that never have issues.

#7687 8 months ago
Quoted from Guidotorpedo:

Not acceptable. It sounds like mirco has fixed their issues for JJP. What about stern? Why don’t other manufacturers have this issue, despite having significantly less capital/market share?

Mirco has not fixed their issues for JJP, i have a GNRLE, it arrived perfect, but after only 200 plays in a home setting Unfortunately the story has changed on the condition of my pf, we are at nearly 2 months, its getting worse and there has been no decision made on warranty.

#7688 8 months ago

Stern is using a different clear or technique for the clear recently. Several people have said they thought the clear coat was thinner on their recently built Sterns. It seems to have addressed the pooling.

#7689 8 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Is this a Mirco PF by chance?

How'd you guess?

#7690 8 months ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

Mirco has not fixed their issues for JJP

I don't think that is necessarily fair or accurate. Not trying to downplay your experience, but the GNR CE playfields have been really, really nice. We're up to around 700 plays and it really looks great.

I do think something has changed for the better.

Bring on the downvotes.

#7691 8 months ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

Stern is using a different clear or technique for the clear recently. Several people have said they thought the clear coat was thinner on their recently built Sterns. It seems to have addressed the pooling.

thiner clear, is that a good thing?

#7692 8 months ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

Mirco has not fixed their issues for JJP, i have a GNRLE, it arrived perfect, but after only 200 plays in a home setting Unfortunately the story has changed on the condition of my pf, we are at nearly 2 months, its getting worse and there has been no decision made on warranty.

Could you elaborate on that? My understanding was that some of the early playfields had the same old issues, but they have been corrected now.

#7693 8 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

thiner clear, is that a good thing?

Could be...if it was thicker than needed.

#7694 8 months ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

Mirco has not fixed their issues for JJP, i have a GNRLE, it arrived perfect, but after only 200 plays in a home setting Unfortunately the story has changed on the condition of my pf, we are at nearly 2 months, its getting worse and there has been no decision made on warranty.

I'm sorry you're having issues. When was it made?

Quoted from zaphX:

I don't think that is necessarily fair or accurate. Not trying to downplay your experience, but the GNR CE playfields have been really, really nice. We're up to around 700 plays and it really looks great.
I do think something has changed for the better.
Bring on the downvotes.

People don't downvote you for this... you've said things have changed for the better. And I think and hope they have. Take some responsibility and don't make it seem like we just downvote any old thing. You'll come here waiving your dick around while people are having real actual problems and act like we are the crazy ones. THAT's where you get down voted. People saying how they have issues that will set them back hundreds or thousands of dollars, and then you glibly come in showing off pics of your collection saying how brainwashed you are and how everything is fine because it hasn't happened to you.

#7695 8 months ago
Quoted from dts:

Could you elaborate on that? My understanding was that some of the early playfields had the same old issues, but they have been corrected now.

Im only worried about them covering it under warranty. Mine was perfect new out of box, at 200 home use plays its getting worse. They have taken steps to correct the issues, i just did a repair on a brand new GNRLE, and they are now putting clear washers around the slingshot posts Which tells me they know there were issues and thats the correction for it. I love the game and ive always been a JJP fan. My issues havent been dealt with or corrected. Other people are having issues that i know, but they are trying to keep quiet for fear of retribution. But im tired of the lack of communication, so here iam.

#7696 8 months ago
Quoted from jorant:

how everything is fine because it hasn't happened to you.

It did happen to me though, on POTC LE, POTC CE and Wonka SE. I used the playfield iron technique, mylar and washers to mitigate.

I'm not happy that it happened, but it didn't ruin the machines for me.

I am very glad things seem to be trending up and I hope everyone gets great playfields going forward.
I think that is a non-controversial common ground we share.

#7697 8 months ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

Im only worried about them covering it under warranty. Mine was perfect new out of box, at 200 home use plays its getting worse. They have taken steps to correct the issues, i just did a repair on a brand new GNRLE, and they are now putting clear washers around the slingshot posts Which tells me they know there were issues and thats the correction for it. I love the game and ive always been a JJP fan. My issues havent been dealt with or corrected. Other people are having issues that i know, but they are trying to keep quiet for fear of retribution. But im tired of the lack of communication, so here iam.

That is a good approach to get it out there. I received a replacement playfield for my JJPOTCLE, which I passed on to the new owner. Was "on the list" for a CE replacement, never received it. Given the volume of games they are producing, I'd definitely put some pressure on them to get a replacement if you have chipping. That is the requirement, that there is chipping, not just pooling, at least when I was working with them on POTC. I believe Jack may be involved with this decision process, reasonable to reach out directly and through your distributor.

#7698 8 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

It did happen to me though, on POTC LE, POTC CE and Wonka SE. I used the playfield iron technique, mylar and washers to mitigate.
I'm not happy that it happened, but it didn't ruin the machines for me.
I am very glad things seem to be trending up and I hope everyone gets great playfields going forward.
I think that is a non-controversial common ground we share.

Anything i do will make it worse, i barely touched it with my finger and more art chipped away, i was only touching it because my slingshot rubbers were breaking and you have to remove stuff to change them. I thought about putting large metal fender washers to cover and protect but im worried that it will chip past the washers and become even worse so-for now I'm just playing it And hoping it gets warranted

#7699 8 months ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

Anything i do will make it worse, i barely touched it with my finger and more art chipped away, i was only touching it because my slingshot rubbers were breaking and you have to remove stuff to change them. I thought about putting large metal fender washers to cover and protect but im worried that it will chip past the washers and become even worse so-for now I'm just playing it And hoping it gets warranted

That is pretty bad. The clear will build up around the washers as well, although less with the larger surface area. Teflon washers may be a good idea as well. Sounds like you will be able to get a replacement playfield, based on my past experience. Chipping art is not acceptable, ignore the Pollyannas here and put some pressure on them to get a replacement, and not one of the old ones, a new corrected playfield. I think a populated replacement for this game would be entirely reasonable in this case, but unlikely.

#7700 8 months ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

Anything i do will make it worse, i barely touched it with my finger and more art chipped away, i was only touching it because my slingshot rubbers were breaking and you have to remove stuff to change them. I thought about putting large metal fender washers to cover and protect but im worried that it will chip past the washers and become even worse so-for now I'm just playing it And hoping it gets warranted

How about the mylar circles PinMonk sells, do you think those would help?

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