Quoted from Yelobird:

Confusing. The distributor Works for the OEM. Instead of letting them do what they Earned your business to do you would prefer to go on a personal crusade to hate all pinball sales? Seems odd to me. When I have issues with my car I don't feel sorry bringing my issues to the dealer?? Good luck with your mission whatever that is....

Quoted from mbeardsley:

Some people here like to claim that "the bad playfields are only a tiny percentage and it's all blown out of proportion".
If that's really the case, then Stern /JJP should have no issue/problem replacing the playfields on that "tiny number". The fact that they can't / won't means that they realize that if they replaced all the bad playfields it would cost a fortune.
This is further proven by the fact that even those who do get promised (an unpopulated) playfield end up having to wait months/years for it to be re-made. If it was only a tiny number of playfields there would be enough spare playfields available to send out to those "few" people.
With any big/expensive product (i.e. cars, refrigerators, etc.) there will be a small number of defective ones that get through. It's how the company handles those problems when they arise that matters. Stern and JJP have shown clearly that they have little to no interest in standing behind their products.
Partly this is due (as has been stated above) that they (at least in Stern's case) have a long history of selling to operators rather than end users. However, they have now moved into the (potentially more lucrative) area of the home user - allowing them to significantly increase their prices for "Premium" models. But that lucrative market also expects a far more responsive support structure, which Stern/JJP have not stepped up to provide.
The "cargument" has been made a thousand times, but more realistic is a "frigument". If you bought a $3000 refrigerator that didn't work, how would you feel if the manufacturer said "well, we'll send you a new compressor, but you'll have to install it yourself. And we don't have any spare ones for your model right now - but we'll send you one the next time we re-make your model. Probably in about 6 months or so..."

Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I'm stuck at an impasse. Stern and my distributor haven't done anything about my BM66 playfield. I've been boycotting them since August 2019 when I bought the game. My problems is that I really, really, really want a Jurassic Park Premium.
Maybe I should just flip a coin?

Quoted from snaroff:

Great post. All I'll add is this...the definition of a "bad playfield" is HIGHLY subjective. Gameplay much less so. If the game doesn't work, Stern and it's distributors are usually pretty responsive.

Quoted from zaphX:

Just adding a datapoint that current release JJP playfields look good to my eye.
If we're going to point out the flaws, it's only fair to point out when they've corrected things right?

Quoted from Doctor6:

Stern has not exactly been bending over backwards to help my super warped playfield. They said we have to wait to hear from our quality department. Well pardon me to all hell, but how long does it take to look at my wildly warped playfield to say, "yeah, this one's fucked" and fix it? Get off your ass and fix it.

Quoted from Doctor6:

Stern has not exactly been bending over backwards to help my super warped playfield. They said we have to wait to hear from our quality department. Well pardon me to all hell, but how long does it take to look at my wildly warped playfield to say, "yeah, this one's fucked" and fix it? Get off your ass and fix it.

Quoted from romulusx:

Let’s sum up this thread
1.JJP has addressed playfield issues
2.Stern has not
3.zaphx is a good dude

Quoted from Max_Badazz:

interesting (that level is not warped FYI)[quoted image]

Quoted from Guidotorpedo:

Normally I don’t pile on to threads like this.... but I service a beatles gold that is on route, and the pooling is so bad on it, that the playfield has actually started to chip away in spots where the art is pooling up. This is a game the location probably paid around $8000 for.
I’ll get pics next time I see it, but it’s.... bad. And unfortunate, really. I’m sure if I yelled loud enough I might be able to get a blank, for a game that’s been owned and sort of played the last 2 years (easily less than 10,000 plays), but instead I held back my LZ money to see what cgc and American offers next. To me, that’s more impactful.

Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Pinball distros make little to nothing on NIB machines at this point

Quoted from Mike_J:

That’s a terrific datapoint, but it’s clear, based upon so many of your previous comments, that flaws don’t bother you. You continue to come off as a shill for JJP.

Quoted from John_I:

Not sure how you came to this conclusion. I have not seen pooling issue on the last two or three Stern games posted in this thread. That is the main issue this thread was started for. No excuses for the one warped LZ pro a few pages back and that is worthy of a full populated playfield swap. On the other hand, where are all of the pictures of pooling on LZ? How about AIQ? I may have missed something but I have definitely seen more pictures of GnR pooling than I have AIQ or LZ (or TMNT for that matter). To me, both JJP and Stern have addressed the pooling issues and finally seem to be winning the battle.

Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I'd rather not screw my distributor over. It's not his fault the product is faulty.

Quoted from Doctor6:

Stern has not exactly been bending over backwards to help my super warped playfield. They said we have to wait to hear from our quality department.

Quoted from Max_Badazz:

I got the exact same response.

Quoted from woody76:

this is one of the dumbest statements I have ever read on pinside. that is their job, if they do not want to handle issues with a product that they sell then they need to get out.

Quoted from snaroff:

Great post. All I'll add is this...the definition of a "bad playfield" is HIGHLY subjective. Gameplay much less so. If the game doesn't work, Stern and it's distributors are usually pretty responsive.

Quoted from John_I:

Not sure how you came to this conclusion. I have not seen pooling issue on the last two or three Stern games posted in this thread. That is the main issue this thread was started for. No excuses for the one warped LZ pro a few pages back and that is worthy of a full populated playfield swap. On the other hand, where are all of the pictures of pooling on LZ? How about AIQ? I may have missed something but I have definitely seen more pictures of GnR pooling than I have AIQ or LZ (or TMNT for that matter). To me, both JJP and Stern have addressed the pooling issues and finally seem to be winning the battle.

Quoted from Lermods:

My GnR le playfield looks good and I’m looking closely at the posts every time I play. Clear appears to be thinner compared to potc and wonka. My wonka had slight pooling at a couple of sling posts as did my potc.
My last four sterns have also been good, LZ, aiq, Elvira and tmnt. However, on aiq, I did have an issue with a guide rail digging into the playfield, which was an easy fix. I had st, and that suffered from a lot of dimpling. I don’t recall my JP having any pooling issues.

Quoted from jawjaw:

Buyers are super sensitive combing over entire pf literally with zoom lens. Any slight pooling or small chip or even common dimples is declared serious problem.

Quoted from Mike_J:

That’s terrific for you.
Three folks in my area have severe pooling on their JPs. The dimpling is worse than older Stern machines, but we all know that we just have to live with it.

Quoted from o-din:

[quoted image]

Quoted from Doctor6:

Here is my video if how warped this is:

Like... what's to look at? You're telling me the "quality" guys at Stern are stroking their beards debating if this is okay or not? It is fucked, fix it.

Quoted from Doctor6:

Here is my video if how warped this is:

Like... what's to look at? You're telling me the "quality" guys at Stern are stroking their beards debating if this is okay or not? It is fucked, fix it.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Curious. What do the playfield hangers on the front of your playfield look like? There is technically 100 lbs worth of crap mounted to the bottom of a flexible wood board after all. Not questioning what you are seeing simply offering a suggestion! I would try putting a 1/8" shim under the right playfield hanger for the night to see if the playfield flexes back to position.

Quoted from Doctor6:

The playfield is still warped outside of the hangers. Is it possible I could modify them to fix it? They both sit down flush into the lockdown bar.

Quoted from Yelobird:

I wouldn't modify anything just insert an 1/8" shim under the left hanger and let time overnight and the weight see if it will flex it back to playable. I only suggest this is I had similar problem with a bent hanger once. I just bent it up but in your case a simple shim might be a good test. We are also assuming the locking bar area and cabinet are square.

Quoted from Doctor6:

I super appreciate the help, but I can see this thing takes a huge dip even to the left of the hanger. It is effed. :/

Quoted from Yelobird:

Being transparent, I just want you to fix it so I can offer to buy it lol. Love that game just never got to own one. Hope you find your solution.

Quoted from dts:

Never owned one! Get an STLE, it is one of my favorite Sterns.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Admittedly I was never a Treky fan but this game just shoots Amazing. Played a Premium (I think) and was really impressed. Some day.

Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

If you can't find a Prem/LE, the pro plays just as good! Mod it up and it can be beautiful!

Quoted from gjm7777:

That's exactly what I did, no regrets and it plays so well.

Quoted from mbeardsley:

The Stern "quality department" is just a table in the corner where they stack the "Quality Inspected By : " stickers.

Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I've posted this before, but it's worth of a re-post. It's actually much better than a table in the corner.....
Skip to the 11 minute mark.
Guy Giving Tour: "Yeah, we have this awesome light table to make sure we can spot ghosting insert issues." "Can we show them how it works?"
Guy Doing QC: "Uh, this thing is supposed to be plugged in?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=UR2WflOczwU&app=desktop

Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

I don't see anything wrong... Maybe you were expecting somebody wearing goggles while looking down a microscope with a bunch of fake scientist in the background analyzing the images to detect ghosting.... lol

Quoted from Doctor6:

I'm the opposite. I bought the pro, and now that I have a premium, I would hate to go backwards. But, they Do play the same. The light show is almost like a JJP on the premium.

Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

The clear inserts on the Prem/LE look more washed out. The pro has RGB LEDS in all the inserts and the colored inserts look more vivid. The light show is still excellent even without the fancy color washes etc.

Quoted from mbeardsley:

Some people here like to claim that "the bad playfields are only a tiny percentage and it's all blown out of proportion".
If that's really the case, then Stern /JJP should have no issue/problem replacing the playfields on that "tiny number". The fact that they can't / won't means that they realize that if they replaced all the bad playfields it would cost a fortune.
This is further proven by the fact that even those who do get promised (an unpopulated) playfield end up having to wait months/years for it to be re-made. If it was only a tiny number of playfields there would be enough spare playfields available to send out to those "few" people.
With any big/expensive product (i.e. cars, refrigerators, etc.) there will be a small number of defective ones that get through. It's how the company handles those problems when they arise that matters. Stern and JJP have shown clearly that they have little to no interest in standing behind their products.
Partly this is due (as has been stated above) that they (at least in Stern's case) have a long history of selling to operators rather than end users. However, they have now moved into the (potentially more lucrative) area of the home user - allowing them to significantly increase their prices for "Premium" models. But that lucrative market also expects a far more responsive support structure, which Stern/JJP have not stepped up to provide.
The "cargument" has been made a thousand times, but more realistic is a "frigument". If you bought a $3000 refrigerator that didn't work, how would you feel if the manufacturer said "well, we'll send you a new compressor, but you'll have to install it yourself. And we don't have any spare ones for your model right now - but we'll send you one the next time we re-make your model. Probably in about 6 months or so..."

Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

I noticed how it's gotten much harder to find used Stern SAM games for sale in Michigan where I look. Is it that people are waking up to the quality issues of Spike and more reluctant to sell their SAM games? Or is it Covid lockdown? Probably both.

Quoted from chuckwurt:

I say neither.

Quoted from Doctor6:

Here is my video of how warped this is:

Like... what's to look at? You're telling me the "quality" guys at Stern are stroking their beards debating if this is okay or not? It is fucked, fix it.

Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

The first stage of grief is denial.

Quoted from chuckwurt:

Found two SAM games in the past couple months and looked for a day each. Covid has only increased pinball sales. Everyone was at home with lots of free time and most pinball people are essential workers. So little to no effect. Plus, all these companies, while yes under restrictions, cannot keep up with all the orders they are getting.

Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

Well, I just ordered an American HotWheels. So now I can compare the build quality of it along side my Spooky ACNC, JJ Hobbit LE, Stern SAM and Stern Spike LOL!