(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

4 years ago


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10
#7551 3 years ago

zaphX hasn't been in pinball long enough to remember the days before chipping playfields. This is all he knows. Fortunately, he's quickly become an expert on all things pinball and takes the time every day to educate and help less enlightened pinsiders.

#7552 3 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

zaphX hasn't been in pinball long enough to remember the days before chipping playfields. This is all he knows. Fortunately, he's quickly become an expert on all things pinball and takes the time every day to educate and help less enlightened pinsiders.

Hey I'm not trying to convince you playfield people not to feel the way you do.
Just asking for the same reciprocation.

#7553 3 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

zaphX hasn't been in pinball long enough to remember the days before chipping playfields. This is all he knows. Fortunately, he's quickly become an expert on all things pinball and takes the time every day to educate and help less enlightened pinsiders.

Not sure what you are on about. Playfield issues have been around a long time and maybe you were lucky years ago and got good playfields. Difference is today we have Pinside and Facebook and as soon as there is a bad playfield the world gets to hear about it. Previously just the manufacturer and a few people got to hear about it.

Unfortunately the downside of Pinside and FB is that they can bring idiots together from all around the planet that would previously have never knew each other existed!

12
#7554 3 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Hey I'm not trying to convince you playfield people not to feel the way you do.

Ooook, but why? Why so much energy directed towards an issue you say you don't care about? You post in this thread more than anyone, and swoop in immediately on other threads where playfield problems are brought up too. Just to make people feel better? If that was really your goal, I think you are pissing off more people by trivializing their plight than you are helping them. Maybe it's just me.

#7555 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Not sure what you are on about. Playfield issues have been around a long time and maybe you were lucky years ago and got good playfields. Difference is today we have Pinside and Facebook and as soon as there is a bad playfield the world gets to hear about it. Previously just the manufacturer and a few people got to hear about it.

Sorry, but I just respectfully disagree. Playfield problems have always existed to some extent, sure. However, I think that starting around the Spiderman Vault/Ghostbusters releases, the problems have become much more serious and more common. It could just be a matter of the things I have seen and read. I don't personally inspect every playfield rolling off the line. YMMV, but that doesn't mean it's all made up by people who just have a chip on their shoulder.

#7556 3 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

Ooook, but why? Why so much energy directed towards an issue you say you don't care about? You post in this thread more than anyone, and swoop in immediately on other threads where playfield problems are brought up too. Just to make people feel better? If that was really your goal, I think you are pissing off more people by trivializing their plight than you are helping them. Maybe it's just me.

It's my own fault. I shouldn't react when people crusade against NIB buyers, call them "sheeple" etc.

I should just enjoy my game and STFU.

#7557 3 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

Sorry, but I just respectfully disagree. Playfield problems have always existed to some extent, sure. However, I think that starting around the Spiderman Vault/Ghostbusters releases, the problems have become much more serious and more common. It could just be a matter of the things I have seen and read. I don't personally inspect every playfield rolling off the line. YMMV, but that doesn't mean it's all made up by people who just have a chip on their shoulder.

My issues started Way before SM? My Monster bash original looked like fire wood and lets not even talk about the Adams Family I had that looked like someone cooked a grilled cheese on it. I do agree the opportunity via internet to vent is Much more so than the past that had equal and often worse playfield issues. Luckily we had guys like Cliffy to make products to hide most of those issues.

#7558 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

I went through the supposed JJP playfield issues. Most of the photos on Pinside were re posted by Pinsiders that do not own a game and are only really on Pinside to antagonize an already sensitive topic. There are not many actual games that have playfield issues. There are plenty of BS posts and Polls but not much actual fact.

If that's true, why doesn't the manufacturer just send those few cases populated playfields? It would generate positive press and more sales versus the negative press they're getting now.

#7559 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

My issues started Way before SM? My Monster bash original looked like fire wood and lets not even talk about the Adams Family I had that looked like someone cooked a grilled cheese on it. I do agree the opportunity via internet to vent is Much more so than the past that had equal and often worse playfield issues. Luckily we had guys like Cliffy to make products to hide most of those issues.

Yeah. But those problems were after 10,000's of plays. Most of today's problems are shortly out of the box.

I can remember a couple of playfield issues back in the WPC days that were issues with low plays. The one that comes to mind was the drac track on MB. But, Williams came out with an update for that pretty quick.

I unboxed a ton of games to put on route and never saw poor quality like the games we are seeing now. But, truth be told, I wasn't looking as close either.

#7560 3 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

Yeah. But those problems were after 10,000's of plays. Most of today's problems are shortly out of the box.
I can remember a couple of playfield issues back in the WPC days that were issues with low plays. The one that comes to mind was the drac track on MB. But, Williams came out with an update for that pretty quick.
I unboxed a ton of games to put on route and never saw poor quality like the games we are seeing now. But, truth be told, I wasn't looking as close either.

Yeah, speaking to some of the (dare I say old timers..) like #LTG there was no such thing as working out of the box back then lol. They certainly earned their operator badge buying games back then. Granted they didn't have anyone to complain too and IF they wanted to make money they just fixed it and moved on.

#7561 3 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

Yeah. But those problems were after 10,000's of plays. Most of today's problems are shortly out of the box.

I was about to say this.

#7562 3 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

Sorry, but I just respectfully disagree. Playfield problems have always existed to some extent, sure. However, I think that starting around the Spiderman Vault/Ghostbusters releases, the problems have become much more serious and more common. It could just be a matter of the things I have seen and read. I don't personally inspect every playfield rolling off the line. YMMV, but that doesn't mean it's all made up by people who just have a chip on their shoulder.

Don't forget about the MET playfields that had artwork flying off after like 50 plays. I had one.

#7563 3 years ago

I think its fair that consumer expectations have changed at a much faster rate than pinball manufacturing. Some companies appear to be trying to catch up and be responsive others not so much.

#7564 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Yeah, speaking to some of the (dare I say old timers..) like #LTG there was no such thing as working out of the box back then lol. They certainly earned their operator badge buying games back then. Granted they didn't have anyone to complain too and IF they wanted to make money they just fixed it and moved on.

That's BS. I started in the shop in 1997. I worked for a large Williams / Bally distributor that also ran an extremely big route. We would literally get in semi truck loads of pins that had to be unboxed, tagged, keyed, tested, and deployed. Sure, some had issues. But, it wasn't the norm. Back then, we also went through manufacturer training and knew our head from a hole in the ground when it came to repair. Today, alot of problems are caused by people that have no clue what they are doing and manufacturers that don't give a shit cause people keep buying.

Just my opinion, of course.

#7565 3 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

That's BS. I started in the shop in 1997. I worked for a large Williams / Bally distributor that also ran an extremely big route. We would literally get in semi truck loads of pins that had to be unboxed, tagged, keyed, tested, and deployed. Sure, some had issues. But, it wasn't the norm. Back then, we also went through manufacturer training and knew our head from a hole in the ground when it came to repair. Today, alot of problems are caused by people that have no clue what they are doing and manufacturers that don't give a shit cause people keep buying.
Just my opinion, of course.

And to clarify... I worked for them for 12 years. Started in the shop, went to field service, to service manager, and ended with overall location manager. Sprinkle some slot tech time in between!

#7566 3 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

I think its fair that consumer expectations have changed at a much faster rate than pinball manufacturing. Some companies appear to be trying to catch up and be responsive others not so much.

This is totally true especially since Stern and JJP have both focused on selling to the home market. When they raise prices like they have expectations start to sky rocket.

#7567 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

This is totally true especially since Stern and JJP have both focused on selling to the home market. When they raise prices like they have expectations start to sky rocket.

Couldn't agree more.... This. ^^^^

#7568 3 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

That's BS. I started in the shop in 1997. I worked for a large Williams / Bally distributor that also ran an extremely big route. We would literally get in semi truck loads of pins that had to be unboxed, tagged, keyed, tested, and deployed. Sure, some had issues. But, it wasn't the norm. Back then, we also went through manufacturer training and knew our head from a hole in the ground when it came to repair. Today, alot of problems are caused by people that have no clue what they are doing and manufacturers that don't give a shit cause people keep buying.
Just my opinion, of course.

Not only that, but manufacturers rely on home owners to complete all the repairs. Yes they'll send u a new board or part, but they provide zero labor.

#7569 3 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

Sorry, but I just respectfully disagree. Playfield problems have always existed to some extent, sure. However, I think that starting around the Spiderman Vault/Ghostbusters releases, the problems have become much more serious and more common. It could just be a matter of the things I have seen and read. I don't personally inspect every playfield rolling off the line. YMMV, but that doesn't mean it's all made up by people who just have a chip on their shoulder.

Diamondplate came about because of the same issues, playfield chipping. I cannot remember the year, I do remember returning games.

Playfield manufacture and manufacturer changed in 2016 for Stern and that is when their playfield ghosting and chipping issues started. Digital print playfields came not long after and that is when all the pooling started for anyone using this process (Stern and JJP).

No one is saying the issues are made up, everyone deals with then differently. Some people choose to continue to buy NIB some do not. It is all about personal choice and that is what makes this hobby so good.

#7570 3 years ago

I agree that pLayfield issues of some sort have always been an issue (not sure if they are better or worse today then years ago. However, things have changed. In the old days pinball machines were marketed to operators and not home consumers. I think we can agree that those two stakeholders are entirely different. Operators didn’t care about playfield chipping and arcade players didn’t either. As a player I would put my quarter in a pin with or without a damaged playfield (not so much weak flippers). I may not pay $5k for the same pleasure though.

The other thing that has changed is the ability to make issues visible thanks to social media. Small issues can appear bigger then they are and big issues can be made to appear less significant than they are.

What does not appear to have shifted as much as required is the support model. It has not shifted to reflect the home consumer market which is clearly targeted by the companies. More modern niche companies have a better understanding of modern service management and the older companies take longer to adjust (if at all).

The new games are fun that is for sure!

#7571 3 years ago

I'm stuck at an impasse. Stern and my distributor haven't done anything about my BM66 playfield. I've been boycotting them since August 2019 when I bought the game. My problems is that I really, really, really want a Jurassic Park Premium.

Maybe I should just flip a coin?

10
#7572 3 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I'm stuck at an impasse. Stern and my distributor haven't done anything about my BM66 playfield. I've been boycotting them since August 2019 when I bought the game. My problems is that I really, really, really want a Jurassic Park Premium.
Maybe I should just flip a coin?

Find a second hand one .... That way you aren't giving Stern any more business directly. And you can get an eye on the playfield before bringing the game home. Problem solved.

#7573 3 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

Find a second hand one .... That way you aren't giving Stern any more business directly. And you can get an eye on the playfield before bringing the game home. Problem solved.

I haven't been able to find one locally. I've been looking, but they don't seem to come up for sale much.

#7574 3 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I haven't been able to find one locally. I've been looking, but they don't seem to come up for sale much.

If you are serious, post a "want to buy" ad. JP's are out there. Your ad might just push someone into changing up their lineup.

#7575 3 years ago

I think the GNR CE playfield is pretty nice!

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#7576 3 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I'm stuck at an impasse. Stern and my distributor haven't done anything about my BM66 playfield. I've been boycotting them since August 2019 when I bought the game. My problems is that I really, really, really want a Jurassic Park Premium.
Maybe I should just flip a coin?

I have a old run JP with graphics onder the post and metal washers at some posts 1050 games now and no protector.
But I got lucky, the wood is very hard.
So I got some minor dimples instead of creaters like some BM66 or STARWARS.
Buy a huo like I, then you can see if you have a decent one.
The quality from the late 90 with less dimples will never come back.
I hate the playfields they make now (look at my old reactions). I so badly wanted a Stern JP that I took the gamble. And I would never sell this one best game ever (for me).

IMG_20210122_172748 (resized).jpgIMG_20210122_172748 (resized).jpgIMG_20210122_173151 (resized).jpgIMG_20210122_173151 (resized).jpg
#7577 3 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I haven't been able to find one locally. I've been looking, but they don't seem to come up for sale much.

I'm with pinghetto. Post a WTB. You may end up paying more than retail, but if it means getting something that's not fucked up, then it's worth it.

-1
#7578 3 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I'm with pinghetto. Post a WTB. You may end up paying more than retail, but if it means getting something that's not fucked up, then it's worth it.

I'm actually waiting to hear back from the IFPA as to the Stern rewards pricing. I might be able to save myself enough that it is worth the risk. I'm not sure how much you get off.

You definitely make a valid point though.

#7579 3 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I'm actually waiting to hear back from the IFPA as to the Stern rewards pricing. I might be able to save myself enough that it is worth the risk. I'm not sure how much you get off.
You definitely make a valid point though.

Don't do it. It's not worth the risk, at any discount. Buy used.

#7580 3 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Don't do it. It's not worth the risk, at any discount. Buy used.

Totally agree with this.....I'd never buy a NIB Stern...they could give two shits about their customers

#7581 3 years ago

Let’s sum up this thread
1.JJP has addressed playfield issues
2.Stern has not
3.zaphx is a good dude

#7582 3 years ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Let’s sum up this thread
1.JJP has addressed playfield issues
2.Stern has not
3.zaphx is a good dude

I would agree with all three I'm a little surprised zaphX hasn't supplied an unboxing video he must be busy playing his new toy

#7583 3 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I think the GNR CE playfield is pretty nice![quoted image]

You seem to want attention at the weirdest times. :/

31
#7584 3 years ago

Apparently he told Gary "I'm not leaving until I get a replacement playfield". That was weeks ago and he's still there.

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#7585 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Totally agree with this.....I'd never buy a NIB Stern...they could give two shits about their customers

Get a good distro and you will be fine.

#7586 3 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Don't do it. It's not worth the risk, at any discount. Buy used.

You bought a JJP NIB and got a spare playfield because of some pooling and chipping. What NIB Stern did you buy with the same issue that was not resolved by your distro?

#7587 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Get a good distro and you will be fine.

I'd rather not screw my distributor over. It's not his fault the product is faulty.

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

You bought a JJP NIB and got a spare playfield because of some pooling and chipping. What NIB Stern did you buy with the same issue that was not resolved by your distro?

Do I have to have a NIB Stern pin to have an opinion about the dozens of NIB Stern pins that have playfield issues that no one's been helped with?

I've never had a blood infection either. But I'm pretty sure I can still say it's bad, and those that get it should get assistance.

Do not buy NIB pins. Ever. Buy clean used ones.

#7588 3 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I'd rather not screw my distributor over. It's not his fault the product is faulty.

Do I have to have a NIB Stern pin to have an opinion about the dozens of NIB Stern pins that have playfield issues that no one's been helped with?
I've never had a blood infection either. But I'm pretty sure I can still say it's bad, and those that get it should get assistance.
Do not buy NIB pins. Ever. Buy clean used ones.

A good distro will look after you and put in you warranty claim and get it sorted. If it is genuine a good distro will do their best to get you a resolution We have been buying NIB for years and had our issues resolved.

You are entitled to your opinion and you are also entitled to vote with your wallet. Buying clean used games is still supporting the companies that make them. If you really want to make a difference you need to stop playing and buying the games completely.

#7589 3 years ago
Quoted from Doctor6:

You seem to want attention at the weirdest times. :/

Just adding a datapoint that current release JJP playfields look good to my eye.

If we're going to point out the flaws, it's only fair to point out when they've corrected things right?

#7590 3 years ago
Quoted from Doctor6:

You seem to want attention at the weirdest times. :/

He’s been here all day. Sad.

#7591 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

A good distro will look after you and put in you warranty claim and get it sorted. If it is genuine a good distro will do their best to get you a resolution We have been buying NIB for years and had our issues resolved.
You are entitled to your opinion and you are also entitled to vote with your wallet. Buying clean used games is still supporting the companies that make them. If you really want to make a difference you need to stop playing and buying the games completely.

My distro did handle my warranty claim. Unfortunately JJP didn't come to the plate with an acceptable solution. The nuclear option for me would have been to drive the machine back to the distro warehouse and demand a return, which he would have done for me. But then the problem would have been his, not mine, and he would have been out the money. And that's not fair to him. I'd rather not bend him over a barrel for an issue that really belongs with the manufacturer.

So I ate the issue. But you can bet your ass I'll never let it go, as long as I live. Until I get a populated playfield swap from JJP, my issue remains open and unresolved.

#7592 3 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

My distro did handle my warranty claim. Unfortunately JJP didn't come to the plate with an acceptable solution. The nuclear option for me would have been to drive the machine back to the distro warehouse and demand a return, which he would have done for me. But then the problem would have been his, not mine, and he would have been out the money. And that's not fair to him. I'd rather not bend him over a barrel for an issue that really belongs with the manufacturer.
So I ate the issue. But you can bet your ass I'll never let it go, as long as I live. Until I get a populated playfield swap from JJP, my issue remains open and unresolved.

I feel your pain, I have been there more than once. I still want to enjoy the hobby, The new games from JJP and Stern are awesome. I am looking forward to flipping a Gunners.. If I or my wife like it we will still buy a NIB. Those CE playfields look absolutely amazing and I hope JJP offers them as an upgrade to all games soon.

#7593 3 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

My distro did handle my warranty claim. Unfortunately JJP didn't come to the plate with an acceptable solution. The nuclear option for me would have been to drive the machine back to the distro warehouse and demand a return, which he would have done for me. But then the problem would have been his, not mine, and he would have been out the money. And that's not fair to him. I'd rather not bend him over a barrel for an issue that really belongs with the manufacturer.
So I ate the issue. But you can bet your ass I'll never let it go, as long as I live. Until I get a populated playfield swap from JJP, my issue remains open and unresolved.

Confusing. The distributor Works for the OEM. Instead of letting them do what they Earned your business to do you would prefer to go on a personal crusade to hate all pinball sales? Seems odd to me. When I have issues with my car I don't feel sorry bringing my issues to the dealer?? Good luck with your mission whatever that is....

#7594 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Confusing. The distributor Works for the OEM. Instead of letting them do what they Earned your business to do you would prefer to go on a personal crusade to hate all pinball sales? Seems odd to me. When I have issues with my car I don't feel sorry bringing my issues to the dealer?? Good luck with your mission whatever that is....

Here is what you are missing...car dealerships get paid well by the mothership to deal with ALL warranty issues. That's why any dealership is happy to take your car in for repair...they all make $$. When it comes to pinball distributors, I've dealt with many. They all share war stories about how poorly Stern treats them and how little margin there is per game. No joke. Now, if Stern were paying their distributors for fixing our warranty issues, the situation would be much different.

#7595 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Confusing. The distributor Works for the OEM. Instead of letting them do what they Earned your business to do you would prefer to go on a personal crusade to hate all pinball sales? Seems odd to me. When I have issues with my car I don't feel sorry bringing my issues to the dealer?? Good luck with your mission whatever that is....

my thoughts as well... or is the dealer selling these at cost for no profits??? that is a rhetorical question.

#7596 3 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Here is what you are missing...car dealerships get paid well by the mothership to deal with ALL warranty issues. That's why any dealership is happy to take your car in for repair...they all make $$. When it comes to pinball distributors, I've dealt with many. They all share war stories about how poorly Stern treats them and how little margin there is per game. No joke. Now, if Stern were paying their distributors for fixing our warranty issues, the situation would be much different.

I second this. Thin margins and they are forced to buy games they don't want in order to keep their status as a distributor. There are guys with WWE NIB wasting away because they were made to take them. Would be nice to see some closeouts like back when WOF and WPT were being blown out at $2500 NIB. I'd take chance on a WWE at that kinda deal

#7597 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Confusing. The distributor Works for the OEM. Instead of letting them do what they Earned your business to do you would prefer to go on a personal crusade to hate all pinball sales? Seems odd to me. When I have issues with my car I don't feel sorry bringing my issues to the dealer?? Good luck with your mission whatever that is....

Cargument doesn't work here. Pinball distros make little to nothing on NIB machines at this point, espeically with MAP in full effect. I'm more than happy to contact my distro for stuff like a broken trough board, airball protector, scuffed powder coating, dinged shooter bezel, broken camera sculpture, scratched head artwork, extra parts rolling around in the cabinet, etc. These are things the distro can communicate up to the vendor and get handled.

(and those are all things I had handled on my Wonka)

The playfield issue is different. The moment I started that warranty claim I was kicked up to JJP senior management. My distro was kept in the loop the whole time, but he really didn't have much involvement other than being a spectator. He offered to let me return the game, which I declined, for reasons stated above.

My mission is simple - caution everyone about buying NIB games. As long as people continue to buy them without reservation, it's tacit approval of the way the playfields are being manufactured. I'm sorry, that's not good enough for me. Until I get proof that the manufacturers have fixed the issue AND are making people whole, the warning remains. Do not buy NIB games. Buy used ones instead.

#7598 3 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Cargument doesn't work here. Pinball distros make little to nothing on NIB machines at this point, espeically with MAP in full effect. I'm more than happy to contact my distro for stuff like a broken trough board, airball protector, scuffed powder coating, dinged shooter bezel, broken camera sculpture, scratched head artwork, extra parts rolling around in the cabinet, etc. These are things the distro can communicate up to the vendor and get handled.
(and those are all things I had handled on my Wonka)
The playfield issue is different. The moment I started that warranty claim I was kicked up to JJP senior management. My distro was kept in the loop the whole time, but he really didn't have much involvement other than being a spectator. He offered to let me return the game, which I declined, for reasons stated above.
My mission is simple - caution everyone about buying NIB games. As long as people continue to buy them without reservation, it's tacit approval of the way the playfields are being manufactured. I'm sorry, that's not good enough for me. Until I get proof that the manufacturers have fixed the issue AND are making people whole, the warning remains. Do not buy NIB games. Buy used ones instead.

Fair enough your call. I have had pretty positive results letting the distributor find a solution. Guess the Cargument was much but lower that to say a restaurant. The waitress is a commissioned (tip) seller for the restaurant. If I don't like how its prepared they are usually the one I speak to not the one that prepared it. Good luck in your mission.

#7599 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Fair enough your call. I have had pretty positive results letting the distributor find a solution. Guess the Cargument was much but lower that to say a restaurant. The waitress is a commissioned (tip) seller for the restaurant. If I don't like how its prepared they are usually the one I speak to not the one that prepared it. Good luck in your mission.

If the restaurant tells you to just pay the bill and like it, would you go around telling people the waitress was horrible or the restaurant. I completely understand why people that have been screwed want to let others know. I can't for the life of me figure out why the fanboys take such offense and constantly have to pretend there is no issue. It's not some mission or crusade to try and help other people out and let them know the risk, that is just being a decent dude.

23
#7600 3 years ago

Some people here like to claim that "the bad playfields are only a tiny percentage and it's all blown out of proportion".

If that's really the case, then Stern /JJP should have no issue/problem replacing the playfields on that "tiny number". The fact that they can't / won't means that they realize that if they replaced all the bad playfields it would cost a fortune.

This is further proven by the fact that even those who do get promised (an unpopulated) playfield end up having to wait months/years for it to be re-made. If it was only a tiny number of playfields there would be enough spare playfields available to send out to those "few" people.

With any big/expensive product (i.e. cars, refrigerators, etc.) there will be a small number of defective ones that get through. It's how the company handles those problems when they arise that matters. Stern and JJP have shown clearly that they have little to no interest in standing behind their products.

Partly this is due (as has been stated above) that they (at least in Stern's case) have a long history of selling to operators rather than end users. However, they have now moved into the (potentially more lucrative) area of the home user - allowing them to significantly increase their prices for "Premium" models. But that lucrative market also expects a far more responsive support structure, which Stern/JJP have not stepped up to provide.

The "cargument" has been made a thousand times, but more realistic is a "frigument". If you bought a $3000 refrigerator that didn't work, how would you feel if the manufacturer said "well, we'll send you a new compressor, but you'll have to install it yourself. And we don't have any spare ones for your model right now - but we'll send you one the next time we re-make your model. Probably in about 6 months or so..."

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