(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

5 months ago



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There are 3955 posts in this topic. You are on page 15 of 80.
#701 4 months ago

Well, I’m just gonna go to my local Distro, rip open all his boxes of nib stock, break all the glass on the pf’s, ( no time to slide em out, I’m a man on the go!), and rub my screwdriver over the cc. If the pf’s still look ok, I’ll give him a thumbs up.

I’m off boys, LET’S GO!

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#702 4 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

Yep. They will take care of ya real good.
And yes, they’ve proven their worth...in spades.

Me thinks someone is in for a rude awakening don’t you?

#703 4 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Me thinks someone is in for a rude awakening don’t you?

Unfortunately, yes.

The Distro when I point out the pf issues to the cops he called.

-6
#704 4 months ago
Quoted from Lounge:

Re: the manufacturer/s knowing they have playfield issues.
I think the washers under the posts from the factory, where none were before, is a pretty good indication that the manufacturer knew something wasn’t quite right and tried to apply a bandaid rather than halt production and fix the real problem.

Great point. Washers have been applied.
Why did you chose the phrase "rather than halt production and fix the real problem"?
That implies that they know what the real problem is AND that halting production is one of the best ways to fix it. We don't know that either one of those things are correct.

More likely a line worker noticed a change in how the art looked after installing some posts. She pointed it out and her supervisor noted it for the plant manager to check out. Maybe they tried some different things and decided washers made things better so they went with that until someone decides differently.

Another possibility: it's not even showing up at the factory. Tech support is getting calls and photos and the washers are a first attempt. Who knows at this point?
Shutting down the plant when you don't even know what the problem is, how severe, or how widespread? You're talking about putting hundreds of people out of work temporarily. No one wants that. You'll investigate while production continues and do your best to fix any issues that come up.

#705 4 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Great point. Washers have been applied.
Why did you chose the phrase "rather than halt production and fix the real problem"?
That implies that they know what the real problem is AND that halting production is one of the best ways to fix it....

....Another possibility: it's not even showing up at the factory. Tech support is getting calls and photos and the washers are a first attempt. Who knows at this point?
Shutting down the plant when you don't even know what the problem is, how severe, or how widespread? You're talking about putting hundreds of people out of work temporarily. No one wants that. You'll investigate while production continues and do your best to fix any issues that come up.

If you know the units are problematic - and they do, hence the **washers from the factory** - wouldn’t you want to find out why and fix the root cause before the units shipped? Seems like this would have saved them a lot pain where warranty work is concerned. Shutting down the line doesn’t mean shutting down the company. They are still making other pins.

#706 4 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Great point. Washers have been applied.
Why did you chose the phrase "rather than halt production and fix the real problem"?
That implies that they know what the real problem is AND that halting production is one of the best ways to fix it. We don't know that either one of those things are correct.
More likely a line worker noticed a change in how the art looked after installing some posts. She pointed it out and her supervisor noted it for the plant manager to check out. Maybe they tried some different things and decided washers made things better so they went with that until someone decides differently.
Another possibility: it's not even showing up at the factory. Tech support is getting calls and photos and the washers are a first attempt. Who knows at this point?
Shutting down the plant when you don't even know what the problem is, how severe, or how widespread? You're talking about putting hundreds of people out of work temporarily. No one wants that. You'll investigate while production continues and do your best to fix any issues that come up.

I know folks in the car industry, alot of them over my 28 years. Same thing. Issue found accidentally, goes up the chain, low-hanging fruit fixes tried, then things may get serious. Issues are always found months or years later too.

One thing not done: a letter saying your car is like a snowflake.

#707 4 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

After reading through this post I just inspected my Iron Miaden pro built around the same time as yours and the only clear coat issue is near top narrow post above the drops. There is small sliver half moon shape of clear coat separation. The ink is not attached to the clear coat that pulled up. Interesting that it is in the same place as yours. That post gets whacked by the ball there, but I don't think its much worse than other areas. Its mostly hidden unless you lean forward and look for. Hopefully it does not get worse. There is quite a bit of dimpling too on this playfield.
I don't know if they used two different manufacturers or different printing equipment for playfields during Maiden, but some look different than mine. I played one that felt like the colors where shifted more towards red end than mine looks.
[quoted image]

Yeah, my play field has a bunch of dimpling as well just like my Ghostbusters. It doesn't bother me though as I can not see it when playing the game. My clear has not separated at all, and hopefully it doesn't. Just the tiniest of a bump by the post. I haven't noticed anything on my Ghostbusters or GOTG.

-1
#708 4 months ago

I’m fine with the washers, as long as I can replace them with PETG down the road. I’m going to leave things alone for the first 6 months and see how it goes.

#709 4 months ago

Sorry Stern , this issue is widespread! On location 2 days

NOT SHOWN: Right side sling post was already chipped with art removed.

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#710 4 months ago
Quoted from ezeltmann:

Sorry Stern , this issue is widespread! On location 2 days
NOT SHOWN: Right side sling post was already chipped with art removed.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

The washers just made it wider?

#711 4 months ago

Has the operator contacted Stern about it? Looks like this was before they started shipping with larger washers.

#712 4 months ago

I don't own any of those affected new games. But could it be that they simply use to much(thick) clearcoat? I checked my Ghostbusters playfield, wich are also known for not being the best quality playfields. The clearcoat looks a lot thinner compared to those new models. My GB does not have any clear coat issues around any posts.

#713 4 months ago
Quoted from ezeltmann:

NOT SHOWN: Right side sling post was already chipped with art removed.

Serious question: why didn’t you take a picture of the chipping? I don’t doubt you, just would have liked to see what you’re describing.

#714 4 months ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Serious question: why didn’t you take a picture of the chipping? I don’t doubt you, just would have liked to see what you’re describing.

I didn't notice it right away and was noticed by the owner later. Hopefully it's not too hard to believe that my report is true. The chip on the right side was fairly small and on the lower right side.

I did contact the owner immediately . I advised to report immediately.

This one appears to have no washers.

#715 4 months ago
Quoted from Lounge:

If you know the units are problematic - and they do, hence the **washers from the factory** - wouldn’t you want to find out why and fix the root cause before the units shipped?

Need more information to answer this. How many units have a problem? How severe is the problem and is the severity the same for every affected unit? What is the root cause and how long will it take to fix it?

An operator doesn't have their bottom line affected in the short term. Not many will see a defect on route and say, "I'm not putting money in that pin." An operator's concern will probably be resale value years from now and most likely the issue will be solved by then.

Quoted from Lounge:

Shutting down the line doesn’t mean shutting down the company. They are still making other pins.

Every pin has a playfield in it. I don't know how Stern's factory is organized. Certainly the designers could keep working and your factory stations could work around no playfield assembly for some period of time. But I don't think shutting it down is a viable option unless you know that's likely to solve the problem. Not shipping games affects every customer. Some playfield defects only affect some customers, and some of those customers want to make money while they wait for a resolution.

#716 4 months ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Has the operator contacted Stern about it? Looks like this was before they started shipping with larger washers.

Someone photoshop a sling post with a washer that touches the washer on the other side of the playfield.

Could they put the art on the washers? All metal playfields...wait, then the clear on the metal would bubble and we’d need a washer

#717 4 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

How many units have a problem?

Every single one that has washers under the posts.

Stern should give you a raise.

#718 4 months ago
Quoted from Lounge:

Every single one that has washers under the posts.

Definitely not true.

11
#719 4 months ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Definitely not true.

If they didn’t think it was a problem then why would they add the washers?

#720 4 months ago
Quoted from Lounge:

If they didn’t think it was a problem then why would they add the washers?

Because it's almost free to do so and isn't likely to do any damage. It MAY help.

The kind of remedy you might try while investigating the root cause.

#721 4 months ago

My JP2 had larger washers than this from the factory and I had no issues on those larger posts. One smaller post had very minor pooling, covered with a rubber washer I installed.

Quoted from ezeltmann:

Sorry Stern , this issue is widespread! On location 2 days
NOT SHOWN: Right side sling post was already chipped with art removed.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

#722 4 months ago

My deadpool is 2 months old and 116 plays on it and this is my shooter lane. Still waiting on a response from stern on what they will do for me on it

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#723 4 months ago
Quoted from Swoods5688:

My deadpool is 2 months old and 116 plays on it and this is my shooter lane. Still waiting on a response from stern on what they will do for me on it

They’re going to send you some clearcoat in a tiny bottle - most likely.

#724 4 months ago

The wife & I went out tonight to try the new JP2. Saw these installed.
IMG_20190901_1641243.jpgIMG_20190901_1641341.jpg

BKSOR has some chipping as well.

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#725 4 months ago
Quoted from Swoods5688:

My deadpool is 2 months old and 116 plays on it and this is my shooter lane. Still waiting on a response from stern on what they will do for me on it[quoted image][quoted image]

I would not be holding my breath waiting. This is a common issue on most playfileds since 2016. Putt a Cliffy on it as soon as you can. In another 100 games, the whole piece will be chipped out.

Good luck.

#726 4 months ago
Quoted from Swoods5688:

My deadpool is 2 months old and 116 plays on it and this is my shooter lane. Still waiting on a response from stern on what they will do for me on it[quoted image][quoted image]

That's actually considered normal now, install the full 2-pc cliffy shooter protector and bump down the coil strength on the kick out.

18
#727 4 months ago

Jurassic Park I played yesterday, the clear and art was lifting like a bubble on the metal ball guide contacting the playfield I imagine because of side to side play from the upper flipper shot.

If these things are showing issues within 15 days of manufacturing/release I can’t even imagine what it’s gonna look like in a years time.

If the art is lifting with the clear it seems obvious that the ink is not adhering properly to the wood playfield it needs to bite in better.
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#728 4 months ago
Quoted from Swoods5688:

My deadpool is 2 months old and 116 plays on it and this is my shooter lane. Still waiting on a response from stern on what they will do for me on it[quoted image][quoted image]

That is how my bad Metallica playfield started. All the clear in the shooter started falling off and then a 3" radius around the center magnet came off to bare wood.

#729 4 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Because it's almost free to do so and isn't likely to do any damage. It MAY help.
The kind of remedy you might try while investigating the root cause.

A serious company Wouldn"t sell a product they knew May be defective.

10
#730 4 months ago

Stern JP pro on location.

They already removed the post below the upper flipper and the playfield is chipped.

No pooling issue around star posts.

Already canceled my JP LE. I am good with my DE JP for now.

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#731 4 months ago
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:

Yeah take it out of the box, take the glass off, and test it with a fingernail somewhere hidden. If it is soft contact the manufacturer and ask for advice about how long for it to sit, and any other advice. Sucks but what else can you do if you want NIB?

Buy from a manufacturer that has their quality control in check.

#732 4 months ago
Quoted from gjm:

Spooky to Stern: I will tell/show you how to make a playfield the right way if you sign back over the "GODZILLA" rights you back doored me on from TOHO.

Yeah, and unshaft them regarding (Elviras?) haunted house party title scab effort. If that's how they play dirty about pinball I have no sympathy for stern. Dog act really.

I guess they are going on the Attack (instead of worying about their own titles) since they are worried how the little guy competition is producing fine quality games while they continue to pump out rubbish. Instead of clipping the wings of the other guy how about sorting out your own product quality, stern.

Taking the titles of your competitors?, try something original maybe....

#733 4 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Buy from a manufacturer that has their quality control in check.

That is the plan. No one should ever need to do a fingernail test on a game.

#734 4 months ago
Quoted from Pinbear:

Stern JP pro on location.
They already removed the post below the upper flipper and the playfield is chipped.
No pooling issue around star posts.
Already canceled my JP LE. I am good with my DE JP for now.[quoted image][quoted image]

That lone post is such a bad design. Could they have tied it to a plastic that can span across the lane on the right to another post? If it had rigidity from above it would not be so susceptible to chipping.

Edit: checked the playfield, they could create a clear plastic stretching to the other side of the flipper and to under the chopper. This would fix it. Even a third party could create a clear plastic shield to strengthen this post. Sorry if someone has already suggested this.

#735 4 months ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Jurassic Park I played yesterday, the clear and art was lifting like a bubble on the metal ball guide contacting the playfield I imagine because of side to side play from the upper flipper shot.
If these things are showing issues within 15 days of manufacturing/release I can’t even imagine what it’s gonna look like in a years time.
If the art is lifting with the clear it seems obvious that the ink is not adhering properly to the wood playfield it needs to bite in better.
[quoted image][quoted image]

this is what I was concerned with. Folks thinking this is just an issue around the posts when is going to affect the game all over the playfield. thanks for sharing.

#736 4 months ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

this is what I was concerned with. Folks thinking this is just an issue around the posts when is going to affect the game all over the playfield. thanks for sharing.

Absolutely! ... whatever presents in one place IS common to the entire playfield. They'll end up like that picture of the WOZ with only bare wood around the pop, once the art lifts from the ply and the clear/art flakes away. Surprises for the future.

18
#737 4 months ago

These pictures get worse and worse. Even though I'm in for the premium only I told my distributor I'm out until I see this resolved.....DE JP will be fine for now

This makes the ghosting on GB seem like a joke.

22
#738 4 months ago

For every person posting on here I'd guess there are 5 lurking with a problem and not posting. For every person lurking there are probably 10+ who have no idea they already have a problem.

I've been reading this thread all week thinking I didn't have any issues, then I took a closer look...yep.

#739 4 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

For every person posting on here I'd guess there are 5 lurking with a problem and not posting. For every person lurking there are probably 10+ who have no idea they already have a problem.
I've been reading this thread all week thinking I didn't have any issues, then I took a closer look...yep.

Sorry to hear that Ron - again though its one of my frustrations. None of the manufacturers will issue specific details about when problems started and when they feel they are resolved - so loads of folks don't act until its too late. has JJP sent an email out to all Wonka owners? no - they just hope that you heard something on a podcast with 12 listeners and a dog.

Neil.

#740 4 months ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Sorry to hear that Ron - again though its one of my frustrations. None of the manufacturers will issue specific details about when problems started and when they feel they are resolved - so loads of folks don't act until its too late. has JJP sent an email out to all Wonka owners? no - they just hope that you heard something on a podcast with 12 listeners and a dog.
Neil.

TBH this problem could be in the millions of $ (in profits) and incredibly nasty to correct. I have no doubt they are meeting with their lawyers, insurance, vendors etc etc. If it's as big as it's looking (right now) it could be an industry defining moment depending on how they handle it. I have no issue with them taking as long as they need (within reason) to formulate a plan.

#741 4 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Absolutely! ... whatever presents in one place IS common to the entire playfield. They'll end up like that picture of the WOZ with only bare wood around the pop, once the art lifts from the ply and the clear/art flakes away. Surprises for the future.

Agreed and painfully logical. Sling posts are the first area of stress, but over the life of the game, the ball is gonna pound every area. Many other areas are going to appear. Is what it is

#742 4 months ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

TBH this problem could be in the millions of $ (in profits) and incredibly nasty to correct. I have no doubt they are meeting with their lawyers, insurance, vendors etc etc. If it's as big as it's looking (right now) it could be an industry defining moment depending on how they handle it. I have no issue with them taking as long as they need (within reason) to formulate a plan.

The only plan is populated replacement play fields, period.

Question will be if they have business insurance to cover this massive cost.

People buy games from manufacturers, not parts vendors, so they are on the hook.

This is big. Only way to move forward imho is to insure future offerings don't have this issue, and existing owners be made whole w a suitable offer ( partial refund, populated of, or exchange for new, corrected game.

I don't see any of that happening from JJP, and would even test Stern, depending on how many of their games are affected.

#743 4 months ago

I finally have cash ready for a new game.
Wanted JP2 the most, then Deadpool but not if stern has all these playfield issues.

Now I’m thinking AFMr since it sounds like CGC has the quality control in order.
Can any CGC owners confirm their playfields are free from significant issues like stern is dealing with?

#744 4 months ago
Quoted from Ranhorton:

I finally have cash ready for a new game.
Wanted JP2 the most, then Deadpool but not if stern has all these playfield issues.
Now I’m thinking AFMr since it sounds like CGC has the quality control in order.
Can any CGC owners confirm their playfields are free from significant issues like stern is dealing with?

I have AFMr and MBr showing none of the problems Stern and JJP having.

#745 4 months ago
Quoted from Ranhorton:

Now I’m thinking AFMr since it sounds like CGC has the quality control in order.
Can any CGC owners confirm their playfields are free from significant issues like stern is dealing with?

My sample size of one CGC game owned and half a dozen played at various locations says no to significant playfield issues.

#746 4 months ago
Quoted from Ranhorton:

I finally have cash ready for a new game.
Wanted JP2 the most, then Deadpool but not if stern has all these playfield issues.
Now I’m thinking AFMr since it sounds like CGC has the quality control in order.
Can any CGC owners confirm their playfields are free from significant issues like stern is dealing with?

Have had our AFMR LE for two years now - still looks brand new. No playfield issues.

#747 4 months ago
Quoted from Ranhorton:

I finally have cash ready for a new game.
Wanted JP2 the most, then Deadpool but not if stern has all these playfield issues.
Now I’m thinking AFMr since it sounds like CGC has the quality control in order.
Can any CGC owners confirm their playfields are free from significant issues like stern is dealing with?

I bought a NIB MBr SE about 6 weeks ago. No issues with the play field. It was my first NIB purchase and set the standard as far as I am concerned. I have not had a single issue to complain about. I was looking to buy a JP or WW, but have informed my distributor that I am waiting to see if either company is going to resolve the PF issues.

There is not a product I would buy if the manufacturer told me that paint moving on a new item is acceptable. We have been painting wood for more than a hundred years and there is no acceptable reason for this to be happening.

#748 4 months ago
Quoted from ausretrogamer:

Have had our AFMR LE for two years now - still looks brand new. No playfield issues.

I've also had an AFMr LE too for 1.5 years and zero problems.

-1
#749 4 months ago
Quoted from Ranhorton:

I finally have cash ready for a new game.
Wanted JP2 the most, then Deadpool but not if stern has all these playfield issues.
Now I’m thinking AFMr since it sounds like CGC has the quality control in order.
Can any CGC owners confirm their playfields are free from significant issues like stern is dealing with?

I can't even see any dimpling on my AfMr

#750 4 months ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

The only plan is populated replacement play fields, period.
Question will be if they have business insurance to cover this massive cost.
People buy games from manufacturers, not parts vendors, so they are on the hook.
This is big. Only way to move forward imho is to insure future offerings don't have this issue, and existing owners be made whole w a suitable offer ( partial refund, populated of, or exchange for new, corrected game.
I don't see any of that happening from JJP, and would even test Stern, depending on how many of their games are affected.

You are correct, this is the manufacturers' liability. No insurance company will cover the expense. IMO, populated PF's sent - at the manufacturer's expense - is the only fair way to deal with this.

I have a PoTC LE. It got the donuts under the slings, indicating soft clear coat. I fixed it with rubber washers and star posts. To be honest, the rest of the PF looks fine (from what I can see), a blister around the post by the Tortuga hole which will burst if I don't put a cliffy on there soon but mainly good? (I haven't gone over it with a magnifying glass, who knows?)...but I'm only hundreds of plays in. Because the donuts appeared, I think bad stuff is going to happen to the rest of the PF over time that will disfigure (not normal wear and tear, which I expect). I would like a new populated PF so I don't have to even waste a minute wondering about this.

The game is great and I'm keeping it but I expect to be covered for this. $9500 is a lot of money to me, I'm not rich.

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