Still amazed we have to import PF's from Germany.
Can't any US company make these?

Yes, STERN and CGC. As I remember CGC made playfields also for STERN in the past but with "MMr" and all this remakes they are a competitor to STERN. So very clever from Stern to make the playfields by him self. If with success .... ??!!

I am disappointed from Stern and JJP. So my last NIB games were TBL and Alien. Both machines are fitted with playfields from Mirco and I have no problems so far on this 2 titles. With repro playfields I had also issues in the past. From Mirco and also from CPR. Therefor I avoid buying them but sometimes .. there is no other choice.

So take a million dollars and start your new playfield business ....
I dont understand what is so extremly demanding coating playfields. Maybe in the old days the clear was better due to chemical dilution , in this days in Europe only waterbase coats allowed and also, most producer do not work with a primer like in the old days. (This was why the inserts were milky, not clear as now).

So to produce masses of playfields you need experience. I saw on videos that Stern playfields the inserts are glued in by humans, Mirco Playfields uses a roboter as far as I know. maybe the human is n advance at least in this case.

I had also playfields from BuT Hamburg (BoP, T2), his clear is very good and I had no problems with it so far.

I've heard back from JJP on my playfield. Per Jack's addressing this in 2019, JJP doesn't replace a playfield that only has pooling. If the playfield should start chipping, JJP will evaluate and determine if they add you to the replacement playfield queue. They are keeping my support case open at this time. As I've said before this is a commercial amusement game not a fine collectable and I understand that pooling alone doesn't warrant replacement. If the playfield deteriorates beyond pooling I'll be contacting JJP for further consideration and will keep the forum updated. Now I'm going to go play the snot out of my new toy.

What a crappy situation, that customers need to be on hold, to see if and when more damage occurs to their incredibly expensive purchase.

I'll play happily on location, if possible, and not so happily given covid still rampant.

The replacement JP Pro pf I just got is 99% beautiful. It has a pooling or digging in situation on the guide rail for the upper left loop right above the tower shot. I'm obviously not gonna get a second populated playfield, so I was thinking/hoping I can remove the rail, do Yelobird's fix and reseat it with a washer on the offending post that is really dug in.

Thank you for the follow up.
No sense in my further written response on this thread because I can't add anything productive or positive to the situation. I, personally, can only respond moving forward with my wallet and fade off in to the secondary market sunset. I'm fully aware that I won't be missed by the awesome companies that provide this entertainment.

Wow. I guess we define things differently, but to me a $9000+ game with tons of options including Invisiglass (which I would never put in a location machine), is a fine collectable. That said, pooling is not a big deal without chipping or art separation. With this policy though, JJP should extend the warranty on playfields an extra year or two in case the art separates and/or there is chipping down the road.

My October 2019 build Wonka CE Playfield is perfect.. dimples yes.. Pooling & Chipping.. No

Who knows what will happen if you pull the rail off. I didn’t notice the issue on my game until I had the apron off.

In my opinion when these companies make 3 different models that makes the more expensive models fine collectibles. I have even heard Gary Stern state many times that the Premium and LE models are for the home collectors. Then you have JJP charging stupid money for their games and that makes them much more than a commercial amusement game. JJP games cost about as much as automobiles do now.

Let's see how they treat any CE owners with issues, as it's the "collector's edition" and not the commercial amusement game edition

The BuT playfields are next level. A friend of mine swapped his T2 with a new playfield and after months it looks brand new, no issues whatsoever.

It can be done, its just that stern really doenst gave a single sh*t, as long as the new machines are selling why bother fixing crappy playfields?

We're going to be talking about this issue tonight on "Bro, Do You Even Talk Pinball?" podcast, 8pm EDT, twitch.tv/buffalopinball

This has been a long time coming. I was set to talk about it in February when I had an issue with my Deadpool, but waited to see what Stern would do, and also so that they wouldn't retaliate against me for discussing it on our platform. I have 10 years of NIB issues to detail. Seeing this problem continue is incredibly frustrating and my goal is to elevate it to help protect new buyers and maybe, just maybe get them to actually solve the issue, rather than continuing as business as usual.

Expect a healthy dose of cursing.

Yes and T2, BoP, and CGC playfields are the ones that are still Silk Screened not laser printed like the ones failing. We can assume all we like about clear coat but you have to ask when a failure like this happens, What Changed. The art application process.

Good job. Look forward to it. My JP premium built June 2020 has pooling. Might chip soon in two spots. No word from Stern.

Can't we just talk aboot it now like we're already doing?

Make sure that you include that JJP is treating their customers just as bad as Stern is when it comes to standing behind their playfields. Don’t make it an all Stern thing because it isn't.

Have they? It appears they at least sent out new play fields to Wonka and POTC owners....not saying thats an acceptable solution, but they at least did something....it appears Stern is great at just ignoring its customers

Pinball Expo 2021 playfield quality shirts are ready to go.

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Actually worse, because JJP hasn't sent a single populated playfield and we know Stern has done that in some really bad cases.

Yes they have screwed people over BAD. Don’t forget that Jack wanted to charge people 500 dollars for a playfield at first. Also sending out a unpopulated playfield is not a acceptable solution. JJP is no bettet than Stern when it comes to customet service, they both suck!

.

I’ll be listening in. Echoing what others threw out here hope its honest and candid as hell. How are ya gonna do that with a JJP sponsorship ‍♂️. Anyways will listen in-hope it changes people’s attitudes and actions.

If you are not going to throw some fire towards JJP then don't bother
Stern has at least sent out populated PF's to some ... don't think JJP has done the same.

Its going to be interesting isnt it? I cant wait!

Absolutely, JJP will be mentioned. My focus will be mainly on Stern as my direct experience/issues has been with them over a 10 year period and 6 NIB games. I've purchased 2 JJP games and have not had any cracking issues, but I will acknowledge that people have posted on the forums documenting issues.

For the record, I wouldn't personally buy a GnR now with the issues I'm seeing. I'm happy to be honest and say that. That's just me personally though, and I'm not in the market for a GnR. I was considering an Avengers, but waiting until the issue clears up.

They are both equally as guilty and truthfully JJP has been worse to their customers than Stern has. You also gotta remember that while you may hear Sterns name come up more often than JJP, they also sell far more games than JJP does so naturally they are going to have more complaints against them. These pinball companies should not be allowed to get away with selling their customers a 6-12 thousand dollar defective product and then tell their customers to f*ck off and not make it right.

I'm especially interested to hear your thoughts as you guys are heavily pro jjp. I hope you pull no punches and share your true thoughts and opinions across all brands. I'm upset with this as I love the hobby, but pretty much refuse to buy nib stern (and now jjp) because of it.

Edit: I just read your reply to someone else. Jjp is very much guilty too, and need to be talked about as well. I know you're in their pocket, but dammit I hope you don't pass them by in this. And that's coming from a staunch jjp supporter.

I'm a customer of both companies and won't personally purchase a machine from either company until they fix the issue for good. I'm happy to state that on the podcast.

I like both companies. I want to purchase more games. My goal is to advocate for the consumer. Sponsorship or no sponsorship.

I'm also happy to have a rep from either company come on a future podcast to discuss the issues and how they intend to address them.

They will never do that in a million years. They run for the hills when you start talking about playfield quality and what they are doing to make it right with their customers.

Yea, I'm sure you're right. It would be a good PR move, I think, but you're probably right.

Could not have been said better dude. No nib games for me and I have the cash next month to buy if I wanted. No real feeling of consumer confidence.

If they would back their games they would sell a lot more of them that is for sure. I guess they are selling enough games anyway and they dont care about screwing their customers that get defective products. If people stopped buying though i have a feeling that they would care and this problem would get fixed. All i want is a guarantee that im not going to get hung out to dry if i receive a bad playfield. That shouldn’t be too much to ask for in my opinion.

100% agree.

I'm sure they are experiencing negative consequences, due to some people no longer buying NIB due to this issue as well as the cost of sending out a new playfield. I think part of the issue is that they have no way of tracking the impact of lost customers. Add to the fact that sales overall are probably increasing, because more people getting into the hobby, and this gives them a lack of significant reason to truly fix the issue.

But I think it's safe to say it only benefits them to fix the issue. That it's worth whatever it takes to make a product that doesn't chip.

I think the EPA restrictions have made it almost impossible for these companies to make good playfields anymore but that isn’t the consumers problem. I don’t know what the answer is but it definitely sucks for the customers when they pay 6-13K for a pinball machine and it has a playfield with bad clear coat on it and then you get totally ignored by the manufacturer. Stern wont even answer their damn phone anymore or return emails. This is absolutely HORRIBLE customer service!

What needs to happen is to call BOTH of these companies out in a public forum. Pinball shows not internet podcasts and pinside. If that doesn't make them become honest nothing will.

I'm with you. They are passing on the problem to the consumer, which isn't right.

It seems washers would have solved many of the issues. I'm not sure all of them, but at least some, especially my Deadpool damage.

Our podcast reaches over 3,000 listeners/viewers. It will also go up on YouTube. That's more than a pinball show will reach.

I agree. But The CGC and Spooky games I own are worlds better as far as clear coat quality. If they can make a good clear coat surely stern and JJP can.

That might be true, but do you have Gary or Jack on your show confronting them and making them answer?

I like your guys show a lot and you all seem like super nice guys but it just got a little too pro JJP and too anti Stern for me (Kevin...cough cough) but i cant wait to see your show tonight. Make me a fan again Gusphan!

Thank you for being honest and willing to talk about the issues on your podcast. I will listen to an advocate for the customer any day of the week.

100% agree.

That would be great but it ain’t never going to happen trust me. They will NEVER talk publicly about their playfield issues!

One thing I want to be clear about, is that I'm not "anti-Stern". I've purchased 6 Sterns for my personal collection and probably 10+ for my business. I get what you're saying though. JJP is a sponsor and we don't hide that fact.

There was a quote I jotted down from the Netflix documentary, "The Social Dilemma": "It's the critics that are the true optimists". I know Stern and JJP can do better on this issue. I want them to do better, because they both have talented teams that are crushing it in terms of making amazing games. And I want to own as many of these games as I can.

I just wonder why they can't catch these issues in production.
Jack Danger just did a whole stern video highlighting their QC - but it's really difficult to believe

Im with you on all of that. I want all pinball companies to succeed because the more pinball we have the better it is for everyone. I love Stern games and ive been one of their biggest fanboys ever but the fact is their quality has gone downhill big time and they have not treated me right as a customer and im going to call them out on it. Ive bought seven new games and received two bad playfields and they didn't make it right......didn't do jack shit For me actually. Not a good feeling when you spend 50 grand on pinball machines and then have the manufacturer not want to work with you and make it right with you.

Notice Jack didn’t take us inside the Clear Coating room..

Yeah but he never discussed playfield quality at all. I was so shocked.........NOT!

Also George Gomez just did a video Called “should you buy a new stern pinball machine” and all he talked about was how great the spike system is. He never once mentioned anything about their playfields. Gee i wonder why? That was a f*cking joke of a video if i ever saw one.